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Planet Hanyu Staff

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in Yuzuru Hanyu

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Mitya Tissue box

Mitya

Posted
Posted

If...

If Javi didn't fall, doubled his triple, stumbled on other few jumps and simply didn't mess his whole LP he surely would have won.

If Shoma could show nearly clean landings, instead of shaky and stiff ones (I'm not saying anything about his take off because it seems they just refuse to notice it) he'd have won.

If Boyang didn't do mistakes he'd have won.

If Patrick could putt on more difficult program and went clean with it he'd have won.

If Nathan could try to show real skating instead of jumping or at least did whatever he was without mistakes he'd have won.

Too much "if..." don't you think? It was not like in cases when one little mistake could cost a title.

 

I'm not trying to underestimate others and really like Shoma and Javi's LP for example but true is All the other skaters should just skated nearly clean for a medal chance whereas Yuzuru should do his best and even more. True is judges was ready throw this points whomever but Yuzuru. And he gave every opportunity to the others to win. He did that mistake in SP which did cost him about 10 points. But no one could use it. No one but himself with his legendary free skate.

 

And it's just funny how some people feeling sorry for Patrick all the time since 2014, and successfuly forgetting about how he's won for example Worlds in 2012, when even good old kind-hearted b.esp Simon called it "ridiculous". İt could sound tough...but I am always taking results of OG 2014 as a some kind of karma. Of course it's not skaters fault as a person and Patrick very good skater though. But it's what it's.

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the50person SEIMEI

the50person

Posted
Posted
kamotejojo said:
Yatagarasu said:
What I find funny with those particular comments, and I've seen plenty of those is that if you reverse the situation, all hell breaks loose. Well he didn't, why are you dissing their win, etc. Now I actually do think it's wrong to say if so and so had only, he would have, so how come it's not applied to Yuzuru? In other words, hypocrites. Applied to some, not others.

 

They go hand in hand with ISU and how they're willy nilly about applying rules.

 

Remember 2015-2016 when he was ahead by a lot of points? What were people saying? The judges were too generous. The scores are an exaggeration. Like, what the heck do you guys want? Ah, for him to leave the competition altogether? Because that's what it suspiciously sounds like.

 

If in doubt, always turn to the old saying: Haters gonna hate, Yuzu's gonna skate. :hachimaki: 

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the50person SEIMEI

the50person

Posted
Posted
I have read the comments below the article.
Hanyu's ability to train like he does isn't just his culture - it's him.

Can't agree more.

 

Little late to this discussion. I also agree that Yuzu's ability to train hard and have discipline is not just a product of Asian (Japanaese) culture---it's intrinsic to him. Having raised two kids in Japan, I can attest to the fact that there are too many different personalities to describe Asians by the "hard-working, never question authority" stereotype :nono: , especially nowadays (and even before). I think it is true that kids may not question authority as much as in some Western countries, but when they are talking with their friends and maybe their parents, there's lots of debating.

 

Indeed, he is hardworking because he is Yuzu, and yes, we cant generalise so many ppl into one fixed mould. The world doesnt run like that. :p (if it was I wouldnt be an irritating passive-aggressive kid when I was younger)

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PomeloPooh SEIMEI

PomeloPooh

Posted
Posted
Mitya said:
If...

If Javi didn't fall, doubled his triple, stumbled on other few jumps and simply didn't mess his whole LP he surely would have won.

If Shoma could show nearly clean landings, instead of shaky and stiff ones (I'm not saying anything about his take off because it seems they just refuse to notice it) he'd have won.

If Boyang didn't do mistakes he'd have won.

If Patrick could putt on more difficult program and went clean with it he'd have won.

If Nathan could try to show real skating instead of jumping or at least did whatever he was without mistakes he'd have won.

Too much "if..." don't you think? It was not like in cases when one little mistake could cost a title.

 

I'm not trying to underestimate others and really like Shoma and Javi's LP for example but true is All the other skaters should just skated nearly clean for a medal chance whereas Yuzuru should do his best and even more. True is judges was ready throw this points whomever but Yuzuru. And he gave every opportunity to the others to win. He did that mistake in SP which did cost him about 10 points. But no one could use it. No one but himself with his legendary free skate.

 

And it's just funny how some people feeling sorry for Patrick all the time since 2014, and successfuly forgetting about how he's won for example Worlds in 2012, when even good old kind-hearted b.esp Simon called it "ridiculous". İt could sound tough...but I am always taking results of OG 2014 as a some kind of karma. Of course it's not skaters fault as a person and Patrick very good skater though. But it's what it's.

 

One correction: Boyang actually didn't have any mistake; he's the only double-clean guy in this Worlds. I'd say he'd have won if he were from a more powerful federation & had a better skating skill coach as a kid. but that's not really a "what-if" :smile: he pretty much did his best.

 

And agree with the Patrick karma thing. Sometimes it seems to me that having too many WCG (esp. controversial ones) can do the opposite to one's OG momentum. In that respect I feel that Yuzu has just the right amount by now :grin: He can always add more WCGs to his collection later if he's not quite satisfied with what he already has :bow: :bow: :bow: 

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Anna Tissue box

Anna

Posted
Posted
If...

If Javi didn't fall, doubled his triple, stumbled on other few jumps and simply didn't mess his whole LP he surely would have won.

If Shoma could show nearly clean landings, instead of shaky and stiff ones (I'm not saying anything about his take off because it seems they just refuse to notice it) he'd have won.

If Boyang didn't do mistakes he'd have won.

If Patrick could putt on more difficult program and went clean with it he'd have won.

If Nathan could try to show real skating instead of jumping or at least did whatever he was without mistakes he'd have won.

Too much "if..." don't you think? It was not like in cases when one little mistake could cost a title.

 

Exactly my thought. All the "What if skater X didn't do that or that..."-talk is futile in my opinion because skater X did exactly that or that. You can't change the past.

 

(I hope my post makes sense to you. English isn't my native language)

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xeyra Haru Yo Koi

xeyra

Posted
Posted
If...

If Javi didn't fall, doubled his triple, stumbled on other few jumps and simply didn't mess his whole LP he surely would have won.

If Shoma could show nearly clean landings, instead of shaky and stiff ones (I'm not saying anything about his take off because it seems they just refuse to notice it) he'd have won.

If Boyang didn't do mistakes he'd have won.

If Patrick could putt on more difficult program and went clean with it he'd have won.

If Nathan could try to show real skating instead of jumping or at least did whatever he was without mistakes he'd have won.

Too much "if..." don't you think? It was not like in cases when one little mistake could cost a title.

 

Exactly my thought. All the "What if skater X didn't do that or that..."-talk is futile in my opinion because skater X did exactly that or that. You can't change the past.

 

(I hope my post makes sense to you. English isn't my native language)

As another example from Worlds what ifs...

 

What if Yuzu hadn't had an issue with his combo in the SP?

He might not have won with only a 2-point difference in that case...

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CupidsBow Layback Ina Bauer

CupidsBow

Posted
Posted
Random: so in creating my Figure Skating Notebook of Doom I noted Yuzu's results through seniors and worked out his season averages.

- through his senior career so far, he's won gold 49% of the time and silver 28% of the time. In the past 3 seasons (2014-15~present) he's won gold 58% of the time, whereas in the first half of his senior career (2010~2014) he won gold 42% of the time, half of which were achieved in the 2013-14 season.

- His season average has been on an upward trend every season except 2014-15 and 16-17 (tho his LP average went up by 0.15 this season, his overall average was down by 5.42. His overall average for 2014-15 was down by 6.95)

- the difference between his average combined score from 2010-11 and 2016-17 is 75.14 (the difference is sp average is 20.17 and lp is 54.98)

- Each season his scores increase by an average of: +3.4 for SP, +9.2 for LP and +12.5 for combined scores (rounded to 1dp)

- His highest season average increases were 2015-16 (when compared with previous season +9.33 sp +18.86 Lp +28.17 combined, if compared to the 2013-14 season it's +5.75 sp +15.75 lp and +21.23 combined) 2011-12 (+19.64 for lp +24.30 combined) and 2012-13 SP (+9.42)

 

Ah figure skating, the thing that makes me do maths even though I hate maths.

 

Great stats. The upward trend in scores is not surprising because of all the tech he's added. What would be interesting to see as welll is stats on margin of victory (i.e. indication of dominance in the field). If he won gold, by how many points vs silver and bronze? If he won silver by how many points did he miss out on gold and win over bronze? Any noticeable trends on the margins?

 

Another interesting stat to see would be increase in average score vs. BV. How much of the increase was from tech and how much from average better execution?

 

2010-11

SP BV: 36.50

SP average score: 73.73

LP BV: 79.39

LP average score: 140.87

 

2011-12

SP BV: 41.90 (+5.4)

SP Average score: 78.35 (+4.63)

LP BV: 79.85 (+0.46)

LP Average score: 160.5 (+19.64)

 

2012-13

SP BV: 43.96 (+2.06)

SP Average score: 87.77 (+9.42)

LP BV: 87.71 (+7.86)

LP Average score: 168.48 (+7.98)

 

2013-14

SP BV: No Change

SP Average score: 93.72 (+5.95)

LP BV: 90.12 (+2.41)

LP Average score: 180.23 (+11.75)

 

2014-15

SP BV: 44.36 (+0.4)

SP average score: 90.14 (-3.57)

LP BV: 90.62 (+0.5)

LP average score: 176.84 (-3.38)

 

2015-16

SP BV: 47.15 (+3.09)

SP average Score: 99.47 (+9.33)

LP BV: 95.19 (+4.57)

LP Average score: 195.70 (+18.86)

 

2016-17

SP BV: 49.75 (+2.6)

SP Average score: 93.90 (-5.5)

LP BV: 103.43 (+8.24)

LP Average score: 195.85 (+0.15)

 

Average PCS scores (this is excluding Nationals cuz I can't find the score cards)

2010-11

SP: 33.17

LP: 68.48

 

2011-12

SP: 36.72 (+3.55)

LP: 79.15 (+10.67) <- !!!!!

 

2012-13

SP: 41.65 (+4.93)

LP: 81.16 (+2.01)

 

2013-14

SP: 43.84 (+2.21)

LP: 86.76 (+5.60)

 

2014-15

SP: 44.41 (+0.57)

LP: 88 (+1.24)

 

2015-16

SP: 46.73 (+2.32)

LP: 93.76 (+5.76)

 

2016-17

SP: 46.23 (-0.5)

LP: 92.08 (-1.7)

 

What this shows: a steady increase in BV is matched by PCS but the rise in PCS was pretty rapid, Yuzu has a comfy PCS cushion for when his TES goes sideways, even if tech issues are reflected in PCS. Average score increase is balanced between BV rise, PCS rise and GOE rise (program quality) but the sharp BV rise this season didn't exactly pay off - PCS is either a reflection of the problems he had with jumps or the judges' lack of enthusiasm for the programs (H&L is likely a bit of both)

 

edited to fix math errors

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the50person SEIMEI

the50person

Posted
Posted
If...

If Javi didn't fall, doubled his triple, stumbled on other few jumps and simply didn't mess his whole LP he surely would have won.

If Shoma could show nearly clean landings, instead of shaky and stiff ones (I'm not saying anything about his take off because it seems they just refuse to notice it) he'd have won.

If Boyang didn't do mistakes he'd have won.

If Patrick could putt on more difficult program and went clean with it he'd have won.

If Nathan could try to show real skating instead of jumping or at least did whatever he was without mistakes he'd have won.

Too much "if..." don't you think? It was not like in cases when one little mistake could cost a title.

 

Exactly my thought. All the "What if skater X didn't do that or that..."-talk is futile in my opinion because skater X did exactly that or that. You can't change the past.

 

(I hope my post makes sense to you. English isn't my native language)

As another example from Worlds what ifs...

 

What if Yuzu hadn't had an issue with his combo in the SP?

He might not have won with only a 2-point difference in that case...

 

AHAH.

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