meoima

it is not bad.... other than the 3A3lo I don't think he should train... it is hard to get it ratified at the very near of the program. maybe he should try 4T3Lo instead... at the same time, we might have Nathan going for 6-7 quads. If Yuzuru wants to keep up with that, he might train 4T3Lo then.

Do you mind counting the BV for this layout: 4lz 4Lo 3F // 4T3T 4T1lo3S 4S 3A3Lo 3A It just suddenly popped up out of my mind. I don't think he will go for it though.

Yeap... unless the 4lz with direct steps worths +2 to +3, he won't (and should not) put it in the SP. Because it doesn't worth all the risks.

I am sorry if I misunderstood you. Well all strategies have their own risks... if not this isn't life... I would say, the SP has a limit so if they all go clean, the score would be very close. So it might not worth it to risk for 1.5 point and lose 8-10 points in return. I did say they would still put Yuzuru on top once he goes clean, and that at the same time they will give candies to others as much as they can. This isn't contracting. It just means he has less room to make errors. So even though I do find their way of scoring quite unfair and not based on the true quality that Yuzuru has put out there, there's nothing we can do. The only way for Yuzuru is, to count on himself and skates as well as he can, make least mistakes or better, No mistake. And of course, we all wish for him to win.

Well, knowing Yuzuru. I am sure he wants 4lz in both SP and LP and he is working for it. But at the end of the day, it all depends on risks and rewards. Will the rewards worth all the risks go along with adding 4lz in the SP? If Yuzuru somehow masters spead eagle 4lz spread eagle, them yes, he will add it. If not, then I am fine with 4lo // 3A and 4T3T.

Exactly... thank you for pointing it out so well. I am all for better BV, and I would be thrilled to see 4lz from Yuzuru. But he has gone through the process with 4lo and 4S3T in SP and we all know what happened. Adding 4lz will help him get 1.5 points higher in BV, but the risk can be up to 8-10 points if he messed. We all see he only got 106 for LGC with a bad landing at Let's Go Crazy GPF. Had he been totally clean, he might hit 114 or so. So just a bad landing lost him 8 points already. Does it really worth it to endure that process again by adding 4lz? Let's assume eveyone goes clean in the SP, the scores range will be from 100-110. With the limited BV and elements, it's impossible to go to 120 in the SP and I highly doubt they can go there anyway. The point of the SP is to be clean and reliable. Then he can soar in the LP.

Exactly, Yuzuru lost 4CC due to the SP. And I doubt that he didn't take that into account. And frankly, I don't mind if he doesn't lead the SP with 10-20 points ahead. The point is he needs to skate well his SP to be in the range to get top candies in GOE and PCS for the LP.

It seems you're missing the point, he doesn't count on other making mistakes. He has to count on himself to not make mistakes. And that's the whole difference level. After Sochi, whenever he lost, it's because he made mistakes. Even when the other men get higher tech, it's still Yuzuru to lose. He has different status than the others. Judges and everyone see him as the one. And unlike Yuna who didn't do GPs and stayed out of most Olympic season, Yuzuru has continued appearing before the judges' eyes. So no, they won't forget him and they won't give his "The one" status to others as long as he does well. So it is not Yuzuru counting on other to make mistakes. It's these men count on Yuzuru's mistakes. And that's why he made it clear that he has to improve his consistency and reduce the mistakes.

I understand your point. It would be ideal if he can add 4lz. But I am actually annoyed when you insist that Yuzuru "MUST" add 4lz to the SP. No, he must not. While I do this he should have 4lz in the LP, 4lz in the SP isn't that rewarding as people are making it to be. What Yuzuru truly needs is consistency and skating cleanly when it is needed. Sochi ended with bad skating. I doubt that judges would want to see another splat fest. They will just go with whoever skate the most clean-ish with same BV. And so, what if they all skate clean? Does it matter if they're scored close to Yuzuru? The point is for him to stay in the final flight in the LP. The SP is not a done deal. The reality is their quality can not go up from B to A in one summer. Judges can give +1 for some elements that deserve -1 or 0, and +2 for some elements only deserve +1 but that's it. They can't give +3 for elements only deserve 0. At Helsinki, they underscored Yuzuru, so what. They could not give him 0 or 1 for elements he deserved 3. So he ended up with +2 and +2.5 instead. Still enough for him to win. This is why math matters. Again, remember that, after 4CC, many people already said Yuzuru "must add 4lz" and "must do 5 quads". Did he do? No he did not and he still won.

I would say, a new layout in the SP for Olympic season is very risky so unless you're very stable with it, you should not put it in. Because 1.5 points or 2 points higher in BV doesn't guarantee you will jump up 10 points, the risk is that you might lose 8-10 points if you mess. It's all about risk- rewards. As you as pointed out, a clean Yuzuru with 4Lo // 3A - 4T3T and +2 GOE in everything might score 111 or 112 if underscored, so compared to a 4lz // 3A - 4T3T that get 0 or -1 GOE. It doesn't worth the risk.

For the nth time, don't act like all the men will skate clean at the Olympic. Because they won't. For the second nth time, Shoma won't be consistent with a new quad and new combo in the second half. And I am saying this not because of some prophecy or dreaming. It's based on reality. There is one reason why Yuzuru has to do 4lo in the SP last season. And he was correct. for the third nth time, Patrick Chan DID NOT underestimate Yuzuru. His strategy was correct to stay with what he could do best at that very moment (go clean with 2 quad toe). It's his messing up the 3A in SP and the whole LP that sealed the deal. Had Patrick skated clean his SP at Sochi, he could have gotten 102 or even 103. And his Lp might have broken 200 points there had he gone clean. So, no, Patrick chose the correct strategy for his ability at that time. What killed him was that he messed even worse than Yuzuru. If you actually do some math you will see that the difference in BV isn't that huge. Look at this Chopin BV 4Lo 4S3T // 3A - 49.75 BV (2016-2017 layout) 4Lo // 3A 4T3T - 51.01 BV (as attempted at FaOI) 4Lz // 3A 4T3T - 52.61 BV In reality, adding a 4lz will only upgrade his BV To 1.5 point, but there is no guarantee he will land the 4lz right there consistently for the whole season. If he mess it up, fall or something (and we don't take into the account of pop jumps), he will not just lose - 4 points in GOE for a fall quad and -1 point in PCS, other elements will be lowered too due to a fall, so in total, putting a risky jump in might result in losing up to 8 points overall in both GOE and PCS. Let's look at the other guys layouts: Nathan's SP: 4Lz3T 4F // 3A - 53.15 BV Shoma's SP: 4Lo 4F3T // 3A - 51.55 BV Boyang's SP: 4Lz3T 3A // 4T - 51.33 BV Even if they go clean and judges throw candies at them, I highly doubt they can get over a clean Yuzuru. Frankly, quality of skating and jumps can not be improved in just one summer. Judges might want to give +2 and +3 to everyone, but there is a limit they can do if the quality is just that. You saw at WC 2017, they didn't give Yuzuru +3, but it doesn't matter when everything he does has much better quality than the rest. So underscored and he still won. Because that's why we have math before us.

It's not that much of a difference if you can't deliver. Judges have a certain celling for artistry and consistency. If Yuzuru can skate well the current layout with 4lo// 3A and 4T3T, I am sure they will put him on top no matter what. Because let me tell you frankly, after WC, judges do know and do accept Yuzuru as the No.1 Most judges don't care if you repeat the same program for 3 seasons. Ask Sasha Cohen, Irina Slutkaya, Plushenko and all... they all used old programs for years. Do you really think judges care if a top skater repeat a program? Most of the time they don't. 80% judges don't go to twitter and forum. I asked a Russian judge and she laughed and said: "We don't really mind, darling!" And I am sure they will just close up the scores no matter what, even if Yuzuru skates cleanly with consistency or go with much higher tech, they will just give out candies for others. The point of other men getting higher scores due to BV only means that Yuzuru for now has less rook for mistakes. That's all. Whether Yuzuru will bring 4lz to SP, it depends on if he can master spread eagle 4lz spread eagle in 3 months asap. But it is not like he must add 4lz to the SP. In fact he doesn't have to "must". The 4lz in SP only brings around 1.5 points higher and much bigger risk. Does it worth it if he brings an unstable 4Lz in? If his 4lz can be consistent, he will put it in. If not, then he will only do it in LP. It's still ok. The point for him now is to skate well SP and keep his status in the judges' eyes. That's it. After 4CC people were like: "Hanyu must bring 4lz and 5 quads to WC now". Did he? He did not and still won with an invalid combo in the SP, with massive inflation for Shoma and Javi. That's the status of the champion, he does NOT have to follow the trend and ditches the quality. If he just brings a poor 4lz to competition and let it affect other jumps, it is even worse. And it makes people feel like he is panicking. While in reality he should be calm and do whatever he is good at. That's the whole point of skating as a champion. You do not run after the trend. You do well what you have and win with it. And please stop acting like all men will skate clean, because they won't. Adding a new quad into the SP is risky and it gives you big chance ro make mistakes in other jumps. Take Shoma for example, I don't think he will skate well his SP this season with a new quad and new combo in the second half. You don't forget how huge pressure at the Olympic can be. There is a reason why Kulik watered down his program and won, Yagudin watered down his layout and won, Yuna watered down her layout and won, Plushenko also watered down his layout and won.

There are several ladies who can do 3lz3T and 3F solo with 2A in the SP. On paper, their layout seems more impressive but they can not score as much as her. But they are still inferior to Zhenia. It is just the same. Putting the 4S3T in the SP only increase the risk, and it does not worth it at all. I doubt the judges care if he does 4S3T and fails, and think that he does cleanly 4T3T in the second half is inferior.

By the way, as someone has some experience with both classical music competitions and figure skating competitions, I have to tell you this: - In the classical music world, judges will not care if you repeat something for 3-4 seasons. They have to sit there, listening and judging 834776487 competitors from 8 AM till 10 PM. At some point, everything and everyone just SOUNDS THE SAME!!!. I know because I was among the audience and I was just drifting away even before my friend came to perform. And I did not even know what they did, were it Bach, Mozart, or Debussy? Not a clue. It was just very very tiring. - The same happens to figure skating competitions. I sat there in the tech panel for like 3 straight days, and at some point, I did not care who the hell just won. Sometimes judges gave out scores in some very stupid way and tech panel looks at them like @_@? But that's all. When you have to sit there in the ice rink for the whole week, judging 389564765 skaters per day, everyone will be like: As long as you're clean, you do well, you get the candies.

well he still lands the 4S left and right and ok with it. I see no problem. no 4S3T does not mean he did not get it. He landed 4S3T several times and he all gets huge GOE (even though not +3). There is nothing to be ashamed.

Yuna ditched the 3Lo and no one called her a loser. If something does not work, let it go. That is the true meaning of growing up. What made her lost the 2nd gold was because she did not compete the whole season before Sochi, and did not use the whole 4 years to improve the 3lo. Because ladies did not have many jump options in the first place. Men have many options. No 4S3T, then 4T3T in the second half, no big deal. Or 4lo3T or 4lz3T if he can. But it does not matter. The highest BV does not matter if you can not skate it cleanly and beautifully. Zhenia does solo 3lo in the SP, no 3lz , and still breaks WR left and right. This is what Yuzuru has to learn from her. The point is not the highest BV, the point is maximum the BV you have with great quality and consistency. Men are never consistent. But I am sure with a program he has good vibe with, he can skate to it with better consistency than Let's go crazy. Yuzuru messed the 3F and 4S at Sochi, and he indeed has used the 3 years after Sochi to fix them. His 3F is OK with a correct edge now. Yuzuru still lands the solo 4S up and right and it is fine. The issue is not the 4S and 3F anymore. So if you compare Yuzuru to Yuna, he is in a better position than her. By improving 3F and 4S, Yuzuru still has many jump options while Yuna did not have any jump option without the 3Lo. The biggest issue now is Yuzuru needs a reliable combo in the SP. Last season he tried out that 4S3T and it did not work well. It is not wrong to try out something different that WORKS. Now if his 4T3T is back and healthy, why not make use of it in the second half. He will be fine. At least he does not cheat his jump like someone... so what it's just 4T3T? It's fully rotated and clean. They will not be able to crack him down. Someone wants to bring 4F3T in the second half but they MIGHT be cracked down by the tech panel because they cheat their jumps. So good luck with that.

1) It would be the most ideal to have a new program which suits him and he can skate cleanly many times. But considering the crazy layout and pressure he is going to suffer (yes, why are his fans ignoring the fact that Yuzuru will go to Olympic as the reigning WC and Olympic Champion and WHOLE Japan and WHOLE skating world's pressure on him)... I can see that Chopin 3.0 is NOT a bad choice. 2) As it has been proven before (and I have repeated it many times), it is better for Yuzuru to ditch the weak combo that he messed up at the test event (aka 4CC). Yuna fell the 3Lo at 4CC test event at Vancouver, one year later she ditched the 3Lo and went clean and won (of course the rule those time allowed her to do three 2As). But anyway men have more options thanks to quads and 3As, so it is a blessing for us that Yuzuru can do 4T3T in the second half instead of 4S3T in the first half. 3) Yuzuru certainly has the plan to upgrade his layout even more, but for now, skating consistently is more important. I am sure he still practices 4lz for that reason. If his 4lo//3A 4T3T Chopin goes clean but still gets the same score as other guys, he will throw in the 4lz. Or he might bring out the 4lz right away at the beginning of the season, who knows. But for now, his top priority is to skate clean SP to keep himself in the top flight for LP. And that is a correct strategy since he has not had a clean SP before the judge since March 2016.

1) I am 100% sure, if Yuzuru does well, judges won't dare give Yuzuru lower scores because he reuses Chopin the 3rd time. Judges do not care that much seriously. They gave Javi higher and higher PCS and BV despite Javi skating to same style for 5 years. lol You guys are over-estimating the judges' taste too much. 2) I am 100% sure it is not easy to skate clean with a new jump in the program. Be it Shoma, Nathan, Boyang... it is NOT that easy. Especially even if JSF wants Shoma, if Skate Canada and USFA say NO to that cheated quad, then it is not easy either. 3) There is a reason why champion skaters in the past recyled their programs and ditched their weak jumps. Olympic pressure is NO joke. Sorry if there is any Yuna's fan here. But I have to say, Yuna skated cleanly at Vancouver because she ditched the 3lo. Her 3Lo attempts before that were all messy anyway. Whether it was because of her back injury, or it was because they want to improve her consistency, whatever happened, I do believe had Yuna did 3Lo at Vancouver she might mess it up. So ditching the weak jump was the correct choice for Yuna at Vancouver. However, she could have won Sochi had she used 4 years after Vancouver to fix the 3Lo issue. Cause ladies do not have many jump options in the first place. 4) Men, on the other hand, have many options. Instead of doing 4S3T which he messed most of the time in the first half, doing 4T3T in the second half will get higher BV so it is NOT a downgrade at all. If anything, Yuzuru ditching 4S3T which he did not have high success rate in the SP (and LP too) is the right and correct choice. I hope he will stick to 4T3T. Heck, even 4lz3T is ok with me. As long as NO 4S3T in the SP. Cause 4S3T has a bad vibe. So, if Yuzuru decides to bye 4S3T in the SP (I hope in the LP too), then it's a blessing. He still has other options to do.

I wonder when was this interview be made? Before he went to Toronto or after he came back to Japan for ice shows? Or it was right before/after the Makuhari ice show?

I just find it very weird... cause Shirota would not go against Yuzuru's idea and decided to tell the media on her own, would she? And Yuzuru does not have to reveal his SP for the Olympic season this early, don't you think? Yes everyone is showing their "new" (or recyled) programs, but Yuzuru does not have to and he is not obligated to. He can wait until August and tell them his choices for next season as usual. And his rely to the media sounds vague too. In the Kiss and Cry magazine's shortcut, he or Shirota did say something about "the challenge is upgrade the layout and everything." I don't know why it sounds so weird. He is very serious about skating Chopin clean I am sure about it. But at the same time I don't get the reluctant and concious attitude about the SP for next season either.

I have the feeling the choice is not finalised yet. Or if it's finalised that he will use Chopin 3.0, there is not a finalised layout yet.

In his recent interview, he did not say it clearly that he will skate to Chopin 3.0 right? I mean directly from his mouth like: "yes, I will use this for the Olympic season." And he did not even say anything concrete about the final layout? I mean other than just 4T3T in the second half? Thank you.

The chance of Adelina going back to competition is almost Zero.

I am sure next season judges will give out scores like candies to everyone. And I doubt Yuzuru and his team don't know that. This season they already saw that. However... a consistent SP is very much needed for Yuzuru as well. He can not risk having weak SP again and again during the Olympic season. Because a clean or semi-clean SP will help with his LP PCS and GOE. His weak (well weak...) Let's Go Crazy harmed Hope and Legacy score a lot. So he has to consider, whether to play gamble with the SP and lose the ground in LP or get a very stable SP to help to elevate LP. Will he add the 4lz in SP? I am sure he wants to. That's why he is practising it. But will his 4lz to be stable enough in time to appear in SP? That's a big question. I am sure 4lz will be in LP though. That's why it will be interesting to see Yuzuru's plans when he reveals his programs and final layouts next season in August.

Yes, TEB-GPF-National-OlympicTeam-Olympic individual... 5 clean SP back to back. But PW had weaker layout compared to Yuzuru's current ambition. So I don't expect Yuzuru to be that consistent in SP. My friend even joked she's not shocked had Yuzuru decided to put 4lz3T as the last jump pass in SP lol.... and I was like: "Well Yuzuru is saner than that."