swanbeau

yeppp, that layback spin is really pretty maybe he trains spins a lot when he's in rehab bc this looks better than before since right ankle needs rest left ankle gotta work hard lol

oh so it was about that person again but im pretty sure people are not talking about the one with alina, javi etc... jpn twitter generally enjoyed and laughed about that one i remember, maybe some got uncomfortable then but now they are specifically talking about what happened last night? what the heck did this guy do? i mean, serving drinks while cosplaying doesnt seem that much more offensive than before to me? (heck when i heard he played yuzu's nhk fall for laughs some time ago thats the stuff i found offensive ) eta: the show might not have happened last night, maybe the video just got shared around and exploded very recently

Do you guys know anything about some jpn show that makes (not good) jokes on seimei n yuzuru, or something along that line, very recently? I saw a complaint's being translated into japanese in my tl and was confused what theyre talking about, that tweet was gaining popularity quickly

I'm happy polina is already under cska. Not my favorite club but at least she can get protected there. This one happened so quietly... Hope we can get update about trusova and tarakanova too

please skating gods dont turn this into an ugly battle but i guess this is kinda inevitable

what is happening.... the zhenya's part ends happily but good god im so worried for the rest of her teammates, polina, trusova, tarakanova, and i feel bad that alina is dragged into this too by eteri (and she also admitted she was scared of her? and the things with puberty comments etc) i did not sign up for this stress....

she isnt my favorite lady either but, zhenya's anna karenina ex at ice fantasia was good imo, here. i recommend i'm now worried for polina sounds like eteri had a lot of fights with her skaters' parents?? it's so weird... it's their parents and it's not like they went againts the skaters' wish either

lmaaooooo i didnt think of that thank god, this ends on a good note. i feel like this is all still a dream, its so surreal because everything went so fast lol when is she leaving for toronto? june?

Smart. I think we shouldnt worry too much of her getting low trying to get back at what eteri has done. Her team sounds like they know what theyre doing. (Ofc I could also be wrong who knows anymore)

OR it could be people who wanted to hate him just refuse to see what his words actually said, and will use anything to put him down, including something that he never said. I doubt these kind of people will just suddenly say 'oh yeah my bad' even after theyre corrected, especially one who did go to national tv to slight him. In any case, this whole thing is such a mess. I'm praying for brian, and zhenya.

that's where the BV change comes in. since they're lowering quads bv while the triples stay (at least i hope the triples stay bc yikes if otherwise), theoretically they cant rely only on quads anymore. and tbh even now skaters cant just afford to discard spins because 1 point is still 1 point, too many close fight recently. i know what you mean though, some skaters just seem to not care about it, but maybe it has more to do with them not being as passionate about things theyre not good at ^^ i've been thinking about this too actually. bv spins right now are ranging from 1.0 - 3.5 i think, about the same with mostly double jumps (and lower triples). while stsq range from 1.5 to 3.9. and freaking chsq's bv, that has no level so they automatically get the bv even if its just (1) not good spread eagle, is 2.0. how is that even fair.... granted 2.0 is about the same bv as only level 2 spin, its still ??? now though, the question is, what do you think should be equal to spin lv 4? because i think it starts off mostly right, lvl b spin getting only 1 point... i mean i certainly dont think lvl b spin deserves to be in equal to double jumps. maybe it's the increment that should be higher

of course! The time cutting is such a stupid thing to do, in my opinion the most ridiculous one out of this whole changes. the non quad repetition wouldnt even see the light of day, wouldnt even crossed their minds, had they not cut the time. Since that rule really is just a way to prevent another problem that might rise with the time cutting. The GOE -+5 and BV changes are honestly fine, in general, on their own, if we're feeling optimistic and not fussing too much over details (we're not tho, complaining over the smallest detail is what we do best here and we're proud of it ). But time cutting is just straight up selfish. It literally has no positive advantage for skaters, not even when we're feeling optimistic; every skaters and coaches know about rhythm and how much time it needs to do quads, etc. And it spoiled every little bit of "good intention" they have with the GOE and BV changes, and what little "progress" that changes might have shown. They just did it for themselves. Either commercial reasons or money or some kinda sponsor getting their way or something. And they cant just come outright and say or even imply it, so they disguise it with everything else. But the contradiction still stands out lmao The number of jumping passes being reduced is just a result of the time cutting, i dont think it can be considered as what they originally aim, and therefore has no actual reason behind it, technically. And as we could see from the past, from zayak rule, the number of jumping pass and repeated jumps goes hand in hand with each other. And voila we get all this mess we have with the new rules. I know you're not serious and just wondering tho ^^

Just one more for +4 seems to be too little... Especially when all 3 bullets before it is subjective enough What bullet does it need for +1 then? One (1)? Smh wasnt there 8 bullets over all? Getting +3 used to be so hard, like, sometimes you cant even get it w/o hitting like 6, now you hit 5 and you get +5? That doesnt sound ridiculous at all 🙄 yeah, I agree. I guess besides variety, balance is what they value. Its not necessarily about rewarding or not rewarding stamina. Although still a bit 🤔 at it 'coincidentaly' affecting the russian girls, the one who scores exponentially high, the most. Not that I disagree.

Apologies for the extremely, extremely late followed up post. especially to @kaeryth I was procrastinating and then my vertigo kicked in so I’ve been resting and avoiding laptop screen. Now this might seem like a big wall of text agreeing and applauding the isu, but I promise im not. I’m also not isu spokesperson and I actually criticized the new rules a lot, especially a month ago when I first heard of that interview. For the same reason a lot of people have said, ex: contradictory, encouraging skaters to do other quads so high risk of injuries, etc, the usual complain about judges and tp, etc. It’s just that I’m in that space where I’ve come to terms with it and that there’s nothing I can do except trying to understand what exactly is their intention, and what could positively come out of this if all goes well. So I gave it another thinking. What could ISU deemed as a big enough problem? Look at this graph of the men’s score from the last four years. I’m sure a lot of people already seen it. (if anyone knows the source pls tell me) while it also depends whether someone did well or not in their performance that day, the overall gap between the top 5/6 and the rest of the field is widening every year. The increase in score for 10, 11, 12, is very small while the top 5/6 is scarily high. Especially when a lot of them did well. In 2017, all the top 12 did pretty well in general. But you can see the gap in scores between them more clearly than before. The top 6 did more than 2 quads. So the messages it seems to send is that you cant even fight for podium if you don’t have any quads even if you land the jumps very well. It is a faulty line of thinking and there can be made an argument about the judges giving scores where they don’t deserve [insert other critics about the judging system] but let’s forget about it for now. This line of thinking, however, is not unpopular. The CBC specifically gave it a segment to point that out before they air the last group of Men FS in Worlds 2017. And when a lot of the skaters bombed except the champion (Men Worlds 2018), the graph get even more… exponential? Another argument could be made that had judges give the skaters according to what they actually present, the goe and pcs, and hanyu does really well every time even when other skaters also did well, it would produce similar graph (ex. NHK 2015, GPF 2015). But a non hanyu fan might disagree. What does ISU wants? Level the playing field/scores. That’s literally it. A lot of the quadster’s fans might get upset though. although by quadsters i mean skaters who have more than 2 quads. This is also what I take from the ‘no one will be in dominance’ thing that @ chibura at twitter’s friend said. In my opinion, it’s also why some other things in the new rule might affect the russian girls more (second half bonus and varied air position meaning). They upped the scores for other skaters to get close to hanyu back then, now they might want to do it to the whole field of men. It sounds bad. But it’s actually not really? A lot of people complain that they want to see other skaters who might not do many quads but didn’t fall have a chance to win, to award other things beside quads like spins, or other qualities, etc. Also that kind of exponential graph in scores gap between top skaters and the rest of the field might not be good for the field itself. Although this could be made into a whole other argument. What I grasp about the new rule changes 1. Rewarding quality --> +- 5 GOE -Falls get punished very harshly. (-5 for quads) -GOE +4 and +5 can only be awarded to jumps that fulfilled all 3 specific criteria, but also requires other usual bullets. And other things that I’m sure will be discussed and argued back and forth. 2. The complaints about quads getting awarded more --> BV of quads decreased The reason the quads get a lot of BV after Lysacek won in 2010 Olympic is because they want to encourage skaters to jump more quads and reward skaters who do quads better. After all, quads are harder than triples. But the really big increase of BV from their triple counterpart make it that even when they fall they get more points than landing the triples. Like the bv of 4Lz fall and 3Lz GOE +3. see here for jump BV table. In my opinion, most of the complains on quads and quality etc will get solved with these two changes alone. But is it enough? We don’t know. We can only see what falls short on what after it’s been applied. But then, 3. For some unfathomable reason, that I suspect had to do with commercial things or something, The Power That Be decided that now we need to cut the free skate to 30 seconds less. Which means the jumps need to be less. So now men fs has only 7 jumping pass. 4. With that decision (3) though, it will run into another problem. Which is where this ‘variety bs’ people don’t like to hear about come. So, once upon a time, more specifically before 1982 according to Wikipedia, skaters could attempt many jumps of any type as many as they wished. To encourage skaters to display a more diverse arsenal of jumps, the ISU passed a rule informally known as the "Zayak Rule". Click spoilers for more info about it, courtesy of Wikipedia. So the ideal skaters that ISU had in mind from long ago, is a skater that could master a variety of jumps, if not all. They place value in that. Aside from other forms of quality. That’s also why men fs had 8 jumping pass while women had 7 imo. Since men had a lot more jumps option and possibilities with the layout. But cmiiw though, maybe it’s just blatant misogyny. </3 A lot of people seems to have agreed with it. Yuzuru, our favorite skater, in my opinion also chase after these 'ideal'. It’s the reason why he try to fix his flip edge and still jump 3F despite it taking more energy from him (he placed it quite early in his layout), and never getting any advantage from it either. He never gets a +3 for it even once despite him doing everything in his power to upped the quality (transitions, height, flow, what goe bullet didnt he hit?) and seeming to never fall on that jump after Sochi. I suspect it’s because his ideal skate include the ability to master all type of jumps. Now, back to the issue at hand. One less jumping pass. Back when I first heard about it, it indeed crossed my mind, “what about Zayak rules then?” Because even with 8 jumping pass, with this much quads getting mastered, the jump choices are increased, and some skaters have already drop their ‘bad’ jump, so to say. Surely with even less jumping pass it’s not gonna be ‘some skaters’ anymore, it will be the norm. Because skaters literally have no reason to include it. It is a disadvantage. And they’re competitive athletes. They want to win, score better. Take yuzuru, for example. A lot of other people have also pointed out that including 3F in for the new rule is going to be a huge disadvantage. I think alice/xmonster on tumblr explained it once but i cant for the life of me find the post anymore help. Now quite some people are wondering if its a matter of ‘will his determination of bringing his ideal win’ or ‘will he drop it for the disadvantage it brings’. Like I said before, from the past rule, ISU seems to value skaters who are more diverse and can master all type of jumps. But the possibilities of skater with that same ideal (not only yuzuru just in general) who will be ‘forced’ to drop it, or at least ‘highly encouraged from the rules to drop it', can now be high. That doesn’t sound good, it’s like ISU is going back on their own words or value. "Why are we required to jump axel then?" “Why do skaters need to jump a fixed number in the free skate again?” “Why do we even has free skate?” Wondered some hypothetical people who like to stir some sh*t. So, the no-quad-repetiton seems to be in answer to that. And while I’m sure the choice to specify ‘quad’ there, instead of searching other ways to try to solve the issue. has some correlation to the complaints of quads and quality, in my opinion, the time cutting to 30 seconds less from The Power That Be is more of a direct cause to it. It seems like a contrast of what they said about quads being bad for skaters, etc though. They will just train other type of quads and get injured. People wondered. Yes. That’s because, imo, that’s never their concern in the first place. Remember what iSU want, what they really, really want, aayyy, but also not really because it's just my opinion and i dont know ISU at all. Skaters are competitive athletes. They get injured all the time. They can get injured jumping a 2T. The ones who are driven will always train for a more difficult quad as long as that quad is worth more point, even if it’s just 0.5 points. That doesn’t mean we can’t provide a safe environment to help tone it down of course, but I don’t think ISU has any offer of a perfect solution at the moment. For now the responsibility is all in the hand of skaters, coaches, and their own team. I think if skaters with a layout like Kazuki Tomono, skating a performance like his free skate at Worlds 2018, starts getting on podium or even winning, it will tone down by itself. Hopefully the Quad BV decrease will help a lot. And the euphoria of first skater to do this and that will hopefully die down after the mythical 4A is landed soon (by our one and only hopefully ). Although I feel like the way they ‘marketed’ it, or more like ‘announced’ it, as an attempt to ‘reduce the quad revolution’ is a bit… uhm false? Can be easily misunderstood? I don’t know the right word. But well, they can’t directly say it’s to level the scores either. They also can’t say why in the hell they decided to cut the time (stupid decision tbh). And technically it kinda is controlling the quad revolution? and they can cover other things, and it’s simpler and shorter. So I guess the quad revolution takes the blame. Which is why when people see that no-quad-repetition rule, the contradictory stands out. Because when people, concerned fans especially, think ‘quad is bad’ they think about skater’s health first. Which is a good thought, the skaters being safe i meant not the 'quad is bad' unfortunately, that seems to not be the priority of ISU. They dont necessarily dislike quads per se. Hell they might even like it. It gives them views and news and attentions. Although I think it might be better for them to only apply the no-quad-repetition rule later. It’s not really a chronic problem yet in the men’s field. So ‘sacrificing’ early season to see if it will become a big enough problem or not, or see if people will complain “skaters these days avoiding all their bad jumps take off!1”. so long the problem does not peak nearing Beijing Olympic and only fixing it after it finished lmao. Because applying it now when majority seems to be opposed of it is not really wise. Especially if they will only revoke it later nearing the Olympics. (I’m of the opinion that the non-quad-repetition rule will affect skaters who repeat both 4Lz and 4F the most, so some big fed might want it gone before Beijing Olympic, but a lot of people digress, which is, to each their own). my opinion right now is kinda neutral and leaning more towards agreeing with the intention, especially with the no-quad-repetition applied. but even if that's not applied i'm still neutral, for now. i might not like the execution or when i discover some other bs to complain about later tl;dr what if skaters get injured while practicing different type of quads because of this? answer: ISU.... dont care about that. edit: tl;dr 2, no-quad-repetition is a direct result of the time cut in the free skate rather than the complaint about quads. tl;dr 3, The requirement of jumping axel, the number of jumps, and basically the whole rule on what gets repeated or not in the free skate are tangled with each other with the 'variety = Good' as the reason at the core of it, and threatening that might encourage other things of value to also be questioned, for ex: the whole point of a free skate, and the push for it to be gone and be replaced with an artistic program, but this is just my guess and opinion and should not be taken at face value. I hope I'm wrong. another edit: Tl;dr 4, since ISU is an organization, what rule is being pushed and passed are all in the hands of different people with different mindsets and beliefs (and politics and personal interests). It helps that there is a clear set of values that can guide the action they will take. My guess is variety and quality are part of it. However, the execution might not necessarily follow it and in which case, when it gets to the extremes, they will pass another rule, etc, etc, it goes in circle. Sorry for this long post and if someone had already said this somewhere after the last time I post promising to come back with a more coherent thoughts and taking forever to write this. There might be other points that I missed or skipped because it’s too long, so sorry. I don’t know how people do this all the time, writing long analysis with their second language… i have a headache and I want a long nap now, I hope my vertigo wont come back

i apologize @kaeryth i only read your response now. i'll post a more coherent thoughts later! ^^

yes, thats the point im making? umm i hope i understand what you mean is that with less jumps and no-quad-repetition NOT applied, skaters with 1 type of quads could be disadvantaged? or you mean with that rule applied?

thank you so much for answering! i hope we get a whole lot of different vids on yuzuru

i posted this in the general chat but its more suited here: in general there are two ways i look at the things that will get affected by the new rules; Performance-wise and Score-wise. And it affects skaters differently. about the possibilities of new rules affecting yuzuru Performance-wise: About the No-Quad-Repetition Rules Score-wise; and Varieties in type of jumps: i sure hope i'm not the only one here who agrees with the no-quad-repetition rules? because without it, what could happen might be my worst nightmare because: less 30s means less one foot skating for skaters that had not-short set-ups (most skaters do this) -> skaters who still choose to cram quads in those will suffer performance-wise (my eyes will cry and possibility of me getting bored will get exponentially higher) -> skaters who land difficult quads in repeat will get advantage anyway -> pcs is already fixed more or less for top skaters, it definitely wont go down -> some judges and technical panel usual fckery -> worser perfomance* than before this season could generally win any competition later -> my worst nightmare as an (online) audience *by worser i mean, a lot of 2 foot skating, less transitions in general, a lot of posturing, from a jump to another jump is boring, a whole lot more of skaters will cut choreo sequence, imagine something like nathan's chsq becoming the norm , etc, edit: not a lot of varieties in jumps could also counts towards worser performance imo, since 'varied arm position' will literally has to be varied now, no more ugly tanos on all the jumps the no-quad-repetition is by means, not really solving this issue, but it will at least reduce the inflated score that it will inevitably follow, and it affects all skaters with no exception, unlike judging changes which some big fed skaters could maaaayybe ~somehow evade. At least no one will straight up bring a layout that's against this no-quad-repetition rule and not get straight up penalized lmao just another perspective to add to the new rule discussion please if anyone has anything to add, or even disagree with, i want to hear! this discussion is interesting

thanks for the info! sorry for asking but, by 'cover' what do they mean actually? just clips? interviews? live broadcast of the greetings?

i feel like more and more people are equating skating and/or scoring talk as a personal attack or hate against the skaters as a person themselves. which is quite disappointing to be honest. i dont know how most fans can see overscoring as a good thing to be done to their skaters? Surely they have seen what happened to medvedeva.... you might momentarily get bonus but your score is capped eventually and the moment you slightly falter and judges get bored, they will be looking for new younger skaters.... if skaters are really in this for the long haul, the only thing they can do is not take the score for granted and actually improve their shortcomings. and most times overscoring hinders that drive/decision. edit: to be fair, i havent back read enough to the page that i left the last time i was here, and there might be some other posts i missed in the pages ive read so maybe there really is outright hate, so idk sorry for being off topic....to bring it back to yuzu, um, i think i saw a tweet saying the Emperor garden tea party will be broadcasted? is that true? i thought its a private thing

The thing is since the number of jumps get decreased to 7, skaters could be unmotivated to learn the jumps that theyre not good with and just repeated the same jumps they're good at in combination. I mean zayak rules exist for a reason. And unlike in ladies where the jump option available is not that much (and therefore the layouts from top skaters dont differ too much from each other, unless youre alina and you had -3lo combination n put it all in your secondhalf lol), a lot of the men, top 12 men even maybe, had at least 1 type of quad, and top 5 men had more than 2 type of quads, so there is a lot more option, and a lot of possibilities of combination. Even with 8 jumps some skaters already dropped a jump type theyre not good with. Ex: kolyada dont jump flip anymore. So if youre not good at a type of jump now theyre even MORE motivated to drop said jump, this strategy is definitely more beneficial now more than ever, and that's not in line with what isu had in mind as an ideal. Which is, varieties. For ex, since nate is good at 4lz n 4f, he could just do 4lz 4f 4lz+3t 4f+2t 4t+2t 3a 3lo And just forget about salchow. And since 4lz and 4f had highest bv, he doubled his bv advantage. Just by repeating them and even barely landing them, he is guaranteed a win imo lol especially with the way judges giving goe like candies these days. Dont even start to talk about pcs. This is the same for all skaters. Yuzu could drop the flip jump entirely (Tho his personality might not allow it) but the new rules (w/o the no quads repetition) is designed to change the perspective on jumping that flip from no-advantage-but-no-real-disadvantage-either to just straight up Disadvantage-and-would-be-pretty-stupid-to-jump-it. Shoma could avoid lutz entirely. Etc etc. Its not just about the quads. Its about varieties in the type of jumps, and that include triples too. Anyway, this maybe is more suited to skating talk soz *sweats*

Skaters might already know the basics of it though... From word of mouth, interviews, etc, so they might already prepare... Its just the finalization of it as rules that we all have to wait, and whether some of it really pass or not IMO, yuzu will definitely benefit from the less 30s for free programs rules. His stamina is better these days but sometimes you can see his ChSq (or the last 15s or so before finally spin) is not as sharp as he usually is in practice. He already has really short set up and he even already practice the '5 jumps within 1 min 30 s' with as many transitions. 3A still get the same bv (if true) and it's his best jump. And if the no quad repetion is true, then the quads in his arsenal are, 4T n 4S (very stable, can do it in combination), 4Lo (can get it back), 4Lz (depends on his ankle but it'll likely come back in the future tho we might not see it for a while). He even plans to land 4A in thr near future. Like, I see little to no downside to this for yuzu, performance-wise. (1 downside probably he just needs to continue being focused bc if not then he might messed up the timing bc the jumps are so close to each other, but this can get easier with training). Other skaters (especially who had long set ups or hasnt mastered the different rythmn of the different jumps) on the other hand, welp. I dont know. Anyway I said performance-wise, because score will always be like this if judges still score them like how they always score. Skaters from the big 3 fed will somehow get some kind of overlooked, or inflation, or something. its just how its always been.

so wakaba's new program that will be shown is an ex program? a michael jackson program??? wow i'm really excited for it

i feel like yuzu will likely not be there if boyang will be training for summer camp. as in, he will train in a different time? but idk, he was there with young you back then.... so maybe i really hope that he gets to work with one other choreographer besides lori. she can be amazing, i love spiderman and CTHD, but her LPs for boyang so far were.. really not to my liking. Something like CTHD next season from lori sounds good. i kinda want jeff buttle to work with boyang. i dont know i feel like boyang do have this charisma, he can be really cool if he wants, i mean look at his fashion pic. but his charm so far is used in a cute-ish, boy-ish way by lori? i think? which he is, but he can also be more. i want him to work on a more suave(?) program. something with a fun beat. use his more handsome side or something. but faster rhythm could be exhausting in a long program (worse because jeff use every beat of the music to his advantage) so idk. maybe shae can disguise his weakness like she did for nathan but somehow i dont really like the sound of that sentence. ofc that is all just my hope because i feel like chinese fed will make him stick to lori for both programs *sigh* thank you so much for the translation and interesting input @Xen wow CSA is really pushing for beijing 2020, arent they? nevertheless, more funding all around is really, really good for the future of the chinese skaters! good job to whoever fight for this!