Comparison videos and articles

[Old Cat Lady]

I wanted to collect videos and articles comparing elements/programs side by side or over layed so you can directly compare them.  

 

Lutz

This one gives stats on quad lutzes performed by Nathan and Yuzu

http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/231-quad-lutz-what-else.html

 

Not sure how informative it is since it's so old but this also has these types of pics of Nathan's jumps from the Olympics

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/sports/olympics/nathan-chen-mens-figure-skating.html

 

Lutz by Boyang

http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/216-interactive-advanced-analysis-4lz-jin.html

Judging by the videos I've seen so far, I think this might be the greatest quad Lutz ever performed. Huge height and distance and a smooth landing.

 

Seeing these GIFS of Kolyada's makes me so sad. I'm guessing the falls later in the season unnerved him and he was trying to skate cleaner so he dropped it.  I don't get how jumps with such perfect looking technique are so inconsistent. Did he just develop the yips and could never overcome them?

 

SBS of Scherbakova and Trusova at the beginning

 

This was already posted in General Yuzuru chat but I wanted to have a thread dedicated to illustrating differences in quality so I hope admins don't mind me reposting here

 

[Old Cat Lady]

apparently can't delete posts. moved video to diff post.

[hoodie axel]

I highly doubt the stats in the Hanyu vs Chen quad Lutz comparison lol. 

 

Nathan has increased his jump height to nearly Kolyada-level on his quad lutz (if you watch that execution, it's not even close!), but had a gain in air time of only 0.02 seconds from when he had a 53 cm high 4Lz?! Also, 75 cm on a 0.7 s air time?! Or how Yuzuru's air time jumps from 0.761 s to 0.781 s ( which had lower height than nathan's 0.7 s jump... and while the height for yuzuru's seems about right, 0.781 s for that seems wrong as a result) in the same picture. And I don't believe the stats he put up for Boyang's 4Lz either, although the one he picked was a less-than-good execution (and the linked video is an entirely different one )

[Old Cat Lady]

I'm not trying to vouch for the accuracy or relevance of any of this stuff.  I just have one of those nerd brains that like to collect as much data as possible before drawing conclusions.  And for me it's just plain fun to watch.  Also, I didn't intend to make this a Yuzu vs. Nathan thing.  I just posted the stuff that I happen to have on hand.  I'm currently looking for that gif of Javi's 4s superimposed over Yuzu's AC 4s.  I would also love a gif of a Tuktamysheva 3axel imposed over a Kihira one.  And I'm looking for that Russian article comparing the jump heights - wish I thought of this earlier.  So much more work to look for it later than to just save it right away.

 

anyway, until then, here's some ice scope data.  Of course, the accuracy of it has been debated quite a bit.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10Gm4Aq6j4py4cQ1Nq-_RpdA0vYhG0kABaVPVRVLsj6k/edit?usp=sharing

 

[hoodie axel]

16 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

I'm not trying to vouch for the accuracy or relevance of any of this stuff.  I just have one of those nerd brains that like to collect as much data as possible before drawing conclusions.  And for me it's just plain fun to watch.  Also, I didn't intend to make this a Yuzu vs. Nathan thing. 

No that's fine. I just noticed that a bit back, and decided to post it here since I saw the web page pop up here

[shanshani]

Per standard kinematics, flight time is a direct function of height, unless there's some large difference in air resistance between the two jumps, which there isn't. You can't jump way higher but remain in the air for only a bare fraction longer--that not how gravity works. So unless Nathan has somehow figure out how to manipulate the gravitational fields around him using his mind, those 4Lz numbers are highly suspect.

 

Edit: Based on my calculations, a jump with a flight time of 0.7 seconds has a maximum height of 60 centimeters in the absence of air resistance. The equation for maximum height (in meters) of a projectile in a vacuum as a function of flight time (in seconds) is 1/8*9.81*(flight time)^2. This is high school level physics stuff (I should know, I am occasionally called upon to teach high-school level physics), kind of embarrassing for Perform Live to be honest. The only complication here (besides the largely negligible are resistance) is that foot movement could through off the relationship a bit if you pull your foot towards your torso before landing in order to spend a little more time in the air, but that would result in a lower height for the same flight time. So 60 cm should still be the maximum.

[shanshani]

Flight time (s)	Maximum height in a vacuum (cm)
0.68	56.7
0.70	60.1
0.75	69.0
0.76	70.8
0.78	74.6

 

The stats for flight time versus maximum height in a vacuum on Earth if anyone is interested. Actual heights would probably be lower because of air resistance and there's a little messiness since this tracks the skater's center of mass rather than their blade location. Still, should be roughly right.

[hoodie axel]

51 minutes ago, shanshani said:

Flight time (s)	Maximum height in a vacuum (cm)
0.68	56.7
0.70	60.1
0.75	69.0
0.76	70.8
0.78	74.6

 

The stats for flight time versus maximum height in a vacuum on Earth if anyone is interested. Actual heights would probably be lower because of air resistance and there's a little messiness since this tracks the skater's center of mass rather than their blade location. Still, should be roughly right.

These are close enough approximations.

 

ETA: I'd rather Ice Scope gave us air times instead of what it does.

[anski]

I’m a big nerd for statistics and data and always willing to learn more about the technical side of the sport so THANK YOU!

[shanshani]

1 hour ago, hoodie axel said:

These are close enough approximations.

 

ETA: I'd rather Ice Scope gave us air times instead of what it does.

I think it would be great if ice scope could give us flight times as well. It would be a good reality check for the height numbers.

[hoodie axel]

21 minutes ago, shanshani said:

I think it would be great if ice scope could give us flight times as well. It would be a good reality check for the height numbers.

It also just seems like it would be easier to produce, for that matter. There were several numbers I didn't believe during worlds. In general I'm taking all these statistics with big grains of salt, but this perform live was just entirely against thought.

[Old Cat Lady]

Hope it's not too annoying but editing my posts to try to keep like elements together.

 

3 axels

Blog post of different Ladies 3 axels

http://morozombie.blogspot.com/2015/04/a-comparison-of-ladies-triple-axels.html

 

This video is amazing.  The whole thing is good but starting at 3:22, you can see sbs gifs. As expected, Ito's dwarfed the res

 

OMG! sbs of Kihira and Yuzu.  I want to see a sbs of Ito and all the men!

 

Frame by frame shots are my new obsession.

Still need to find Tuk but here's Rika.  The more I look at these, the more impressed I am with Mao's.  Hers is so delicate looking but it's a decent sized jump with superior body position.  I think it compares favorably with every axel except Ito's

 

 

Obviously this isn't Nathan's best axel but it's amazing to see it right next to Yuzu's composite photo.  Hopefully I can find a more recent one but pretty sure that his axel hasn't gotten any bigger

 Sept 1, 2016

Obviously this was taken from the Olympics so probably not an example of his typical axel but no wonder he had issues with it.  look at all the snow on the takeoff.  I don't follow Chan but now I'm curious if his legs are in that air position for other jumps.

 

 

 

 

 

Also loving these collages people put together - Spirals

Don't know who the person in the bottom right corner is but I like hers the best out of these collages.  I've never been a fan of the hand assisted spirals and Sasha's edge bothers me. Though when I mentally filter out the hand holding the leg, I think Mao has the best combo of position + edge. I find Yuna's photo somewhat jarring - not her best element. 

 

Still think of Bobek when I think of the most beautiful spirals. I prefer the alignment of her body to Michelle's though in these photos it looks like Michelle has a better edge.  

 

[Old Cat Lady]

QUAD LOOP

 

http://perform-live.com/blog/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/183-how-to-improve-the-quad-loop-of-hanyu.html

 

Ice Scope claims that the one he did at worlds was 220 cm long, 64 cm high.  But the giant gap in measurement also doesn't mean much since they're 2 different jumps and  Yuzu had more problems with the jump Perform-live used, and the GPF loop was out of a spread eagle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

QUAD FLIP

http://perform-live.com/our-works/video-analysis-of-figure-skating/164-how-to-do-a-quad-flip-by-shoma-uno-japan.html

 

Shoma's flips look pretty consistently tiny. Earlier this year, TSL was doing GOE instructional videos and Dave kept insisting that he should get the "very good height and distance" bullet.

 

How could I forget about the famous Tom Z facebook vid.  My favorite thing about this video is how clearly you can see Vincent's skate bounce as he takes off facing forward.  ETA: weird.  It was the video but now I see Tom Z's essay and a link to the video that doesn't work. 

 

 

[Old Cat Lady]

The video was made and shared by ICeleste

 

SBS of them doing almost the exact step

 

 

I really like the 2nd part of the video because you see them doing the steps sbs.  By itself, I thought Nate's stsq was pretty good but right next to 19 yo Yuzu, all I can see is how shallow all the steps are

 

[Old Cat Lady]

4 SALCHOW

 

 

 

 

 Wow. That air position is perfectly perpendicular.