Yuzuru's chance of competing until 2022 Beijing Olympics

[makebelieveup]

57 minutes ago, memae said:

Honestly, I think he cares more about the 4A than going to Beijing/medalling at Beijing. He's already got 2 Olympic gold medals. It's great, but it's not exactly legendary. He's not the only skater in history to have done that and in other sports there are lots of athletes with multiple gold medals. Landing a 4A in competition, however, will be figure skating's equivalent to breaking the 10s barrier. It will be a historical moment for the sport. I think that's what he's after. Of course, if he does land it, then he's going to be all the more capable of succeeding at Beijing. 

 

I think he could get to Beijing. His biggest competition, currently, is Nathan Chen  - someone who can't take an Olympic spot away from Yuzu because they compete for different countries. But getting a medal also depends on injuries and how well everyone else does, and he can't control either of those. I hope he does what Leisel Jones (a swimmer) did at her last Olympics. She already had multiple golds and world records, so she went and was more relaxed than ever and able to enjoy the other parts of her Olympic experience. The world's best athletes are plonked into Olympic Village for what is not only the highest level of competition for all their sports but a giant celebration of elite sport and the coming together of people from around the world.  His skating is especially beautiful when he's relaxed. He'd probably do even better than normal just because he isn't trying to. 

 

I think he cares more about the 4A because it's a shorter term goal and more attainable. That doesn't downgrade the fact that winning another Olympic gold is the most desirable goal he could be having. While I agree that it would be great if he could be the first to land a 4A in competition, I personally cannot see how landing a 4A is more legendary than getting an Olympic medal or how being a double olympic champion is not exactly legendary yet. or correct me if i have misunderstood your point?

 

If you ask any skater, i'm pretty sure most of them would choose winning their first Olympic gold medal over being the first for anything. On top of that, getting an Olympic gold medal isn't everything because not every gold medal is earned -- some are literally gifted-- it is the fashion in which Yuzu won his Olympic medal in that makes it most impressive. Other sports aside since I don't follow it (although one could obviously see how much more popular and huge Yuzu is compared to many other Winter sport atheletes) Yuzu's status in his discipline is as legendary as any skater could possibly wish to achieve.

 

Yuzu isn't just a double olympic champion, he is the first to do so in 66 years among a very very deep and competitive field and during a period where corruption is peaking. So the fact that he skated on injured ankles and fought to be above the scoring system to dominate the game speaks volume about its impressiveness and prestige. and if he goes and win the 3rd gold medal, that means he would be first to win in probably 100 years. Winning an Olympic gold medal for the third time proves a skater's dominance, longevity, and further confirms their skills. Not to say he would be 27 by then, skating on a chronic injured ankles and with a worn out form, competing against an even deeper field, trying to be even more beyond the corruption; all of this, to me, is something you won't be able to see for the rest of your lifetime. So I don't get how being the first to land a 4A could be any better. So Yuzu has already earned that legendary despite not landing a 4A in competition. if he lands it, it would only be cherry on top for his career. 

 

[memae]

My perspective comes from my own experiences in other sports, as a spectator, athlete, and coach. Every sport has a Yuzu Hanyu - someone who can make people who know nothing about the sport sit and watch for a few minutes in sheer awe of what they can do because they're just that good at it. Tiger Woods, Simone Biles, Michael Phelps, Leisel Jones, Gary Ablett, Federer, Serena Williams. I will watch anyone in any sport whose athleticism impresses me the way that Yuzu's does. 

 

Yuzu certainly has a legendary status at the moment, but will that persist after decades and decades the way that Dick Button's has?  Winning is a normal part of sport. There are incredible athletes in all sports who win multiple events or Olympic games or other kinds of accolades. Many of them do that despite illness, age, injury, and corruption. It's incredible, of course, but not unique. Records are only going to get broken. But being the first person to do something considered impossible or a milestone in the sport itself - that's huge and that's not something that anyone else can have their name next to. If he's the first person ever to land a 4A then that's his forever. Not the first in 66 years or the first in 90 years but the first ever. I don't know how many Olympic medals Dawn Fraser has but I know she's the first woman to ever break 60s for 100m freestyle. That's nothing special now - 11 year olds can do it. But it was a tremendous milestone for swimming and it's going to continue to stand out in the history of the sport. Other historic sporting moments would be the 4-minute mile and the 10s 100m sprint, or the perfect 10 in gymnastics. None of those are very exciting anymore but they are still considered turning points for their sports because they opened up giant possibilities for the future. 

 

I don't think landing a 4A will be a greater achievement than 2 Olympic golds and 2 WC and all the other wins and records Yuzu has earned over the years, especially considering all he was working against to get them, but I do think it will be more memorable as the history of the sport continues. It may very well be just the cherry on top, but on paper it'll be what separates Yuzu from other skaters who have won multiple Olympic gold medals, broken multiple records, won world championships and GPs. Even if he does win another Olympic gold (and it's certainly possible), he won't be the first or only to do so in skating. It's been 90 years, but they'll always have to say "the first in 90 years". 

 

 

[Yuazz]

2 hours ago, memae said:

He's already got 2 Olympic gold medals. It's great, but it's not exactly legendary. He's not the only skater in history to have done that and in other sports there are lots of athletes with multiple gold medals.  

I'm not agree with this one. I think he's already one of the legendary skater in history. Many first done by him. 

◆ First Asian skater to win Olympic in Men single Figure Skating 

◆ First Japanese to win Olympic Gold including back to back OGM (and first double Olympic champion since Dick Button) 

◆ First to breaks 100, 200, 300 pts 

◆ First to land 4Lo in competition 

◆ etc (just check his Wikipedia) 

 

And to compare the gold medals he got with other sport isn't fair. For example swimming, someone could win and got many gold medals in one Summer Olympic competition because there's so many categories iirc. Also look at speed skating Kodaira Nao get silver and gold at Pyeongchang. Takagi Miho get gold, silver and bronze. While yuzu got only one medal because there's only one competition for him,  Men single ( I don't count team event). 

And yuzu just win OGM at two Olympic event in 2014 and 2018 just speaks how legendary and amazing skater he is. And he's coming from not too strong federation. 

 

[makebelieveup]

2 hours ago, memae said:

My perspective comes from my own experiences in other sports, as a spectator, athlete, and coach. Every sport has a Yuzu Hanyu - someone who can make people who know nothing about the sport sit and watch for a few minutes in sheer awe of what they can do because they're just that good at it. Tiger Woods, Simone Biles, Michael Phelps, Leisel Jones, Gary Ablett, Federer, Serena Williams. I will watch anyone in any sport whose athleticism impresses me the way that Yuzu's does. 

 

Yuzu certainly has a legendary status at the moment, but will that persist after decades and decades the way that Dick Button's has?  Winning is a normal part of sport. There are incredible athletes in all sports who win multiple events or Olympic games or other kinds of accolades. Many of them do that despite illness, age, injury, and corruption. It's incredible, of course, but not unique. Records are only going to get broken. But being the first person to do something considered impossible or a milestone in the sport itself - that's huge and that's not something that anyone else can have their name next to. If he's the first person ever to land a 4A then that's his forever. Not the first in 66 years or the first in 90 years but the first ever. I don't know how many Olympic medals Dawn Fraser has but I know she's the first woman to ever break 60s for 100m freestyle. That's nothing special now - 11 year olds can do it. But it was a tremendous milestone for swimming and it's going to continue to stand out in the history of the sport. Other historic sporting moments would be the 4-minute mile and the 10s 100m sprint, or the perfect 10 in gymnastics. None of those are very exciting anymore but they are still considered turning points for their sports because they opened up giant possibilities for the future. 

  

I don't think landing a 4A will be a greater achievement than 2 Olympic golds and 2 WC and all the other wins and records Yuzu has earned over the years, especially considering all he was working against to get them, but I do think it will be more memorable as the history of the sport continues. It may very well be just the cherry on top, but on paper it'll be what separates Yuzu from other skaters who have won multiple Olympic gold medals, broken multiple records, won world championships and GPs. Even if he does win another Olympic gold (and it's certainly possible), he won't be the first or only to do so in skating. It's been 90 years, but they'll always have to say "the first in 90 years". 

 

 

 

I don't agree. Being the first to do this or that is simply a milestone that could also be broken, just like a record. What separates a skater from the rest isn't simply what's on paper. It's what people witness they do on the ice. Someone else could be the first to land a quint or a quad axel, but if they lack the complete package, if they land it sloppily, if they drop every other aspect in order to achieve it, what we really get is "quad axel is landed" or "quint is land" rather than "John Doe landed the quad axel". What the skater wants to express with that jump or the way they deliver that jump is what truly separate them from other skaters. Shoma Uno was the first to land the quad flip, but people won't remember him as a great quad flip jumper. He has bad technique, a toe hammer, and underrotation problems. People prefer Nathan Chen's Quad Flip majority of the time. Vincent Zhou is the first to land the Quad Lutz at Olympic level. But his Quad Lutz, is that even a quad? Artur Dmitriev Jr. attempted the quad axel in competition and we all laughed when we watched it. It's all about what people witness on the ice. Yuzu wasn't the first to land 3A but people will always remember his 3A. I don't even know who was the first to land the 3A. 

 

Also, Dick Button isn't the first to win double consecutive (Media has certainly misinformed that information) He was the first to win double olympic gold in 12 years since Karl Schäfer. Yet even his legendary status that has persisted for so long. So yes, while I don't know if Yuzu's legendary status would persist after decades or not but only time will tell. Being the first to do this or that is great, but if they don't push themselves as a skater with everything else,  it doesn't mean much to me. They could push the sport forward on paper, and then the sport would move forward without them. That kind of glory is shortlived. Being the first is great, being an olympic champion great, but it's all about what they really do on the ice that separates them from the rest. Yuzu just already happens to have both, but what really makes him a memorable skater is his skating skills, the quality of his technical elements, his commitment to every single detail of the program. and I think he doesn't need another 4a to secure his legendary status, now or later. and if he does land a 4a, it better be a program enhancement and received positive points. Otherwise, to him it means nothing.

 

 

[memae]

I don't think you get what I'm saying.  Of course he's a legendary athlete. But do you think for Yuzuru Hanyu that it's enough? I highly doubt he's satisfied or he'd retire and save his ankle  so he can still walk when he's an old man. There will always be someone coming up to do better and he knows it. He's setting a benchmark but one day someone will reach it. There will always be comparisons to other people who had similar achievements. I even said that people will always talk about Yuzu's OGMs with reference to Dick Button or as "the first since", and then you did that in your list. And there will always be people with their doubts about scores and inflation and corruption or with their comparisons to previous scoring systems. His 4Lo is going to get lumped in with the others, like Shoma's flip and Chen being the first to get all 5. He's always going to be the first Japanese skater to win the men's OGM but that's special for Japan more than for the sport in itself. Almost anyone who isn't American or Russian is going to be the first from their country to win the OGM. 

 

I truly think that a 4A is going to be a defining moment for the sport and I don't think it'll be something that is quickly replicated. I also think if Yuzu wants to transcend the very exclusive group of multiple men's skating OGM winners to stand alone as the pinnacle of the sport, and I think that he does, then being the first person to land a 4A is the way to do it. If it wasn't for him, no one would think it even possible. If he lands it, he'll have done the impossible. It'll be one of the biggest contributions to the sport in its entirety - it's beyond specific competitions and scores and nationality. It will set him apart for history because it's not a score someone can beat and it's not a number of OGMs or WCs that someone can beat. There's a gold medalist every Olympics. There's only one person being the first to do the impossible and land a 4A. It'll be a pivotal moment in the sport and if he does it, it's his for history. 

 

[memae]

9 minutes ago, makebelieveup said:

 

Also, Dick Button isn't the first to win double consecutive (Media has certainly misinformed that information) He was the first to win double olympic gold in 12 years since Karl Schäfer. Yet even his legendary status that has persisted for so long. So yes, while I don't know if Yuzu's legendary status would persist after decades or not but only time will tell. Being the first to do this or that is great, but if they don't push themselves as a skater with everything else,  it doesn't mean much to me. They could push the sport forward on paper, and then the sport would move forward without them. That kind of glory is shortlived. Being the first is great, being an olympic champion great, but it's all about what they really do on the ice that separates them from the rest. Yuzu just already happens to have both and I think he doesn't need another 4a to secure his legendary status, now or later. and if he does land a 4a, it better be a program enhancement and received positive points. Otherwise, to him it means nothing.

 

 

I think this is the key here. Guaranteed if Yuzu does land a 4A it's not going to be in a vacuum and done just for the sake of doing one, and that'll be what helps him truly hold onto his place at the top of the sport - not just at the moment, but historically. It'll be what sets him apart from the (very few) others with similar achievements. If he does it, it won't be replicated for a long while. If he's the standard to surpass it won't be just about being able to land a jump. 

[makebelieveup]

 

37 minutes ago, memae said:

don't think you get what I'm saying.  Of course he's a legendary athlete. But do you think for Yuzuru Hanyu that it's enough? I highly doubt he's satisfied or he'd retire and save his ankle  so he can still walk when he's an old man. There will always be someone coming up to do better and he knows it. He's setting a benchmark but one day someone will reach it. There will always be comparisons to other people who had similar achievements. I even said that people will always talk about Yuzu's OGMs with reference to Dick Button or as "the first since", and then you did that in your list. And there will always be people with their doubts about scores and inflation and corruption or with their comparisons to previous scoring systems. His 4Lo is going to get lumped in with the others, like Shoma's flip and Chen being the first to get all 5. He's always going to be the first Japanese skater to win the men's OGM but that's special for Japan more than for the sport in itself. Almost anyone who isn't American or Russian is going to be the first from their country to win the OGM. 

37 minutes ago, memae said:

I truly think that a 4A is going to be a defining moment for the sport and I don't think it'll be something that is quickly replicated.

I don't know what Yuzu wants. Maybe he might feel like he wants to accumulate more happiness = more achievements, but it might not necessarily mean his double olympic gold medals aren't enough for him. One thing I do know is to many of his fans, they are enough and that a 4A is only a bonus. The point is, if people can't acknowledge that he has already transcended the sport with everything he has done and contributed thus far, it's something a 4A or a 3rd gold medal can't solidify. I'm not saying landing a 4A is not a good thing, in fact, I pray day and night Yuzu could land it since it's declared as his goal to achieve. But for me, without it, it's fine. And if you disagree, fair enough. I think we can only agree to disagree. 

 

I guess the reason is because you mentioned "not the first since 66 years or 90 years but ever" that's why I brought up the fact that Dick Button wasn't the first ever to become the double olympic champion yet he even his legendary status persisted. People don't even remember who's the first to win 3 OGM ever. People remember Dick Button because of his dominance and other achievements. Yet even so, when you compare him to Yuzu, he competed during the post world war era when the field was pretty much very shallow. So the reason what makes Yuzu's OGM so great isn't simply because it's the first time in 66 years or whatnot. It's because this "first" actually has a lot more meaning to it. He skated during a very competitive era where the field is so deep and him not having support from his own fed. So that's what makes it so powerful, not just because of the whole "first in 66 years" title. If a skater just does something for the sake of "first" without giving meaning to that "first" with his or her skating, it means nothing. I guess that's my point. I get that you think a quad axel isn't something to be replicated easily so that's a fair point. But looking at today's way of scoring, if someone with 3.25 rotations in the air could be considered a quadster than maybe the first to land a quint might only get as much as 4.25 rotations. 

37 minutes ago, memae said:

I also think if Yuzu wants to transcend the very exclusive group of multiple men's skating OGM winners to stand alone as the pinnacle of the sport, and I think that he does, then being the first person to land a 4A is the way to do it. If it wasn't for him, no one would think it even possible. If he lands it, he'll have done the impossible. It'll be one of the biggest contributions to the sport in its entirety - it's beyond specific competitions and scores and nationality. It will set him apart for history because it's not a score someone can beat and it's not a number of OGMs or WCs that someone can beat. There's a gold medalist every Olympics. There's only one person being the first to do the impossible and land a 4A. It'll be a pivotal moment in the sport and if he does it, it's his for history. 

If we're talking about an exclusive group of men with multiple OGM, he's already separated himself by being better in every aspect of skating and dominating an era during the most competitive field.

If we're talking about those without an OGM, well he's already got the 2 OGM to secure even without the 4a.

But most importantly, it is because he is the kind of skater he is that truly makes him different. 

 

19 minutes ago, memae said:

 

I think this is the key here. Guaranteed if Yuzu does land a 4A it's not going to be in a vacuum and done just for the sake of doing one, and that'll be what helps him truly hold onto his place at the top of the sport - not just at the moment, but historically. It'll be what sets him apart from the (very few) others with similar achievements. If he does it, it won't be replicated for a long while. If he's the standard to surpass it won't be just about being able to land a jump. 

I'm still of the opinion  that he doesn't need a 4A to prove anything else, yet of course, if he is able to acquire a meaningful 4A, it will add to his happiness and more to the skating history itself. Let's agree on this.

[Yuazz]

17 minutes ago, memae said:

I don't think you get what I'm saying.  Of course he's a legendary athlete. But do you think for Yuzuru Hanyu that it's enough? I highly doubt he's satisfied or he'd retire and save his ankle  so he can still walk when he's an old man. There will always be someone coming up to do better and he knows it. He's setting a benchmark but one day someone will reach it. There will always be comparisons to other people who had similar achievements. I even said that people will always talk about Yuzu's OGMs with reference to Dick Button or as "the first since", and then you did that in your list. And there will always be people with their doubts about scores and inflation and corruption or with their comparisons to previous scoring systems. His 4Lo is going to get lumped in with the others, like Shoma's flip and Chen being the first to get all 5. He's always going to be the first Japanese skater to win the men's OGM but that's special for Japan more than for the sport in itself. Almost anyone who isn't American or Russian is going to be the first from their country to win the OGM. 

 

I truly think that a 4A is going to be a defining moment for the sport and I don't think it'll be something that is quickly replicated. I also think if Yuzu wants to transcend the very exclusive group of multiple men's skating OGM winners to stand alone as the pinnacle of the sport, and I think that he does, then being the first person to land a 4A is the way to do it. If it wasn't for him, no one would think it even possible. If he lands it, he'll have done the impossible. It'll be one of the biggest contributions to the sport in its entirety - it's beyond specific competitions and scores and nationality. It will set him apart for history because it's not a score someone can beat and it's not a number of OGMs or WCs that someone can beat. There's a gold medalist every Olympics. There's only one person being the first to do the impossible and land a 4A. It'll be a pivotal moment in the sport and if he does it, it's his for history. 

 

Is the meaning 'not exactly legendary ' and 'ofc he's legendary' have the same meaning? 🤔 Sorry English is not my first language. 

 

If you mean for yuzuru. Who knows? You're not yuzuru and me too. So we don't know,  right? Or do u know? 

 

4A is the beast because no one ever landed it and knowing the difficulty of that jump no wonder people must be excited to see someone landed it. Same with years ago with 3A being first landed by skater or by female, midori ito. Now many female skaters could landed the 3A but it doesn't mean Midori ito isn't a legendary skater. Because to me legendary is someone who becomes the first, the pioneer of something and successful. And Yuzuru is already a legendary just for win 2 OGMs and landed 4Lo as we know he's being the first skater to do that (and not so many skater could jump 4Lo). If in the future someone could be the first to land quint,  it doesn't make the past athletes weren't a legendary anymore. In the future,  sports are always developing . Athletes could do more difficult things because technology/equipments are getting better. 

[memae]

2 hours ago, Yuazz said:

Is the meaning 'not exactly legendary ' and 'ofc he's legendary' have the same meaning? 🤔 Sorry English is not my first language. 

 

They have very different meanings. In "not exactly legendary" the meaning is "not legendary". The use of 'exactly' there is to make it sound more gentle, and less harsh. "Ofc he's legendary" means that there is no doubt that he is legendary. 

[memae]

2 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

The point is, if people can't acknowledge that he has already transcended the sport with everything he has done and contributed thus far, it's something a 4A or a 3rd gold medal can't solidify. 

 

I think we can acknowledge it now, and for a few years to come. But he's not going to be unique there. 

 

2 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

People remember Dick Button because of his dominance and other achievements. Yet even so, when you compare him to Yuzu, he competed during the post world war era when the field was pretty much very shallow. So the reason what makes Yuzu's OGM so great isn't simply because it's the first time in 66 years or whatnot. It's because this "first" actually has a lot more meaning to it. He skated during a very competitive era where the field is so deep and him not having support from his own fed. So that's what makes it so powerful, not just because of the whole "first in 66 years" title. If a skater just does something for the sake of "first" without giving meaning to that "first" with his or her skating, it means nothing. I guess that's my point. I get that you think a quad axel isn't something to be replicated easily so that's a fair point. But looking at today's way of scoring, if someone with 3.25 rotations in the air could be considered a quadster than maybe the first to land a quint might only get as much as 4.25 rotations. 

If we're talking about an exclusive group of men with multiple OGM, he's already separated himself by being better in every aspect of skating and dominating an era during the most competitive field.

 

It's complicated to make comparisons of athletes from different eras when all of the stuff about 'level of competition' gets brought up. Like, yeah, obviously today's athletes are capable of so very much more than those before them. Sport wasn't a profession in the past. Athletes still had jobs to go to so they couldn't train full time. (A lot like many women's sports at the moment!)  They almost always paid their own ways to events. Skaters didn't have the opportunity to practise all year round. The equipment wasn't what it is now. I'll bet a number of them coached themselves. The science around nutrition, training, injury recover/rehab, and movement was next to nothing. But, those athletes were the best among a range of competitors within the same context. Considering all the factors, what they were capable of is incredible. There's too many variables at play to really compare them to the athletes of today. I do get what you're saying, of course, but I think people can be too dismissive of sporting achievements in the past because they compare the context or field of competitors to what they are now. We don't know how Button and the like may have fared as professional athletes given all the opportunities of today's elite but they were the best at their time for a reason. They did what they needed to do to be better than their opponents. It's impossible to say how they'd go now if only they'd been born decades later, but that level of drive and diligence that made them elite athletes in their era would still be part of them. 

 

I think calling a 4A the 'cherry on top' of Yuzu's career is accurate. It's not a competitive highlight of a career, after all. But when you're already as decorated as Yuzu Hanyu, surely contributing to a pivotal point in the sport's history is the next challenge to aspire to. He has the best 3A that's ever been seen. It almost feels like the 4A should be his. I don't think he's chasing it simply to be the first to do so, but because he'll do it in a way that makes it 'his' jump. It'll also be a good way to bring the two sides of skating back together - right now it feels like people are pushing for skating to focus more on the athleticism or people are adamant that the performance and artistry is more important. If he can land the hardest ever jump the way that he most often lands jumps - beautifully, with carefully, artistically considered transitions - it'll make it clear that you don't need to skimp on artistry to have athleticism and vice versa.

 

As for the sketchy rotations, I think as more and more skaters land quads (in both men's and women's skating), judges won't have any choice than to start really cracking down on it. Especially when scores get tighter and dodgy judging is questioned more and more. 

[Yuazz]

3 hours ago, memae said:

 

They have very different meanings. In "not exactly legendary" the meaning is "not legendary". The use of 'exactly' there is to make it sound more gentle, and less harsh. "Ofc he's legendary" means that there is no doubt that he is legendary. 

You said "It's great, but it's not exactly legendary" first and then comment "Of course he's a legendary athlete. But do you think for Yuzuru Hanyu that it's enough"

I just... Confused here.... 

 

imo yuzu is already a legendary. People wouldn't forget him, at least he had 2 monuments built for him in Sendai. 

[Sombreuil]

Button is still well known because he had a high profile career on American TV for many years during the time when skating was popular in the US.  I’ve made the point before, but will make it again - post war if the Olympic champion hadn’t been a young man from North America it would have been miraculous given the loss of life in the male population and the loss of infrastructure in Europe.  Only an American or a Canadian under enlistment age could have had the time and the facilities to do it.  If he’d then gone on to be a lawyer or a dustman he might have been consigned to the history books like Grafström and Schäfer, but he was a loud and opinionated commentator who cemented his place in American minds.

 

 

[PoohandYuzu]

Yuzu is a deep-thinker and always considers everything thoroughly (and often differently from ordinary ppl), as can be seen from histories that he has had his  valid and well-justified reasons to explain why he did or did not do certain things, or how he did them.  I am still surprised and a bit worried that he is going to do ice-shows this summer and wondering why... he would show us how, and might explain it one day years later.... What we know is now that he really wants to win and lands 4A.  Let’s just wish he is healthy and his dream will come true soon!  Whether 3rd OGM is his next target after 4A, he might tell us one day retrospectively...

 

Yet, as Olympic is not sth easy and athletes do have to plan ahead years ago if goal is to win.  What i saw from documentaries (correct me if wrong) are: with the view to get himself on podium and to win, Yuzu trained hard to land 2 quad types ~2 yrs before Sochi, and landed another 2 quad types in the last 2 years respectively before PC.  Thinking along similar lines, he could actually leverage 4A as his means if he chose to compete for 3rd OGM one day.  And if he chose not to, that’s perfectly fine too as he would then have created another history with 4A already.  That’s what /why I thought he might have his flexible, smart plans A, B, C, etc in mind somehow (not just 4A if he is serious)...  things within his calculations... 

 

From the museum visit, I learnt that - faster, higher, stronger (citius, altius, fortius) - is the Olympic motto or spirit, aiming to give one’s best and achieve excellence on daily basis, both in stadium and in life.  In that sense, think Yuzu is the legendary goat with his histories cemented.  Everything else on top, be it 4A or extra golds, will be like bonus  As long as he is happy and does what he wants, regardless if he competes or retires, wins or loses, whatever custom or hairstyle he put, etc etc,   Fanyus continue the support and always, don't we? 

[Shimmering]

I remember Brian once said that Yuzu loves to be first - that is, to be the first to do things. 4A is his dream, the only dream not yet fulfilled, so of course he will chase it. But there is one more thing I keep thinking about: there are a bunch of people jumping the quad lutz (even girls) and a couple of people jumping the quad flip. By adding the quad lutz and the quad flip Yuzu will surely up his TES, but in judges' minds he will still be catching up - a good reason to say "isn't it time to make room for younger athletes, as you've had your share of victories?" But if he jumps the 4A, he will be in a category of his own again, with others catching up, and that will change the way the judges are looking at him. And with it, I think, he will have greater chances at that third OGM, if he decides to pursue it.

[memae]

On 5/13/2019 at 1:53 AM, Shimmering said:

I remember Brian once said that Yuzu loves to be first - that is, to be the first to do things. 4A is his dream, the only dream not yet fulfilled, so of course he will chase it. But there is one more thing I keep thinking about: there are a bunch of people jumping the quad lutz (even girls) and a couple of people jumping the quad flip. By adding the quad lutz and the quad flip Yuzu will surely up his TES, but in judges' minds he will still be catching up - a good reason to say "isn't it time to make room for younger athletes, as you've had your share of victories?" But if he jumps the 4A, he will be in a category of his own again, with others catching up, and that will change the way the judges are looking at him. And with it, I think, he will have greater chances at that third OGM, if he decides to pursue it.

 

This is what I think too. At this stage I think a 4A is perhaps more likely than another quad lutz from him, just in consideration of the points, being first, etc, as well as his lack of fondness for toe jumps (esp flip), getting injured practicing his quad lutz, and then how phenomenally good his axel jumps are.