Team Japan

[Dara]

I remember Riko from Japanese nationals. Interesting that she's trying 3A.

I don't think that's Rika final plan tho, she wanted to go for 2 3A, so...I guess that was a first layout to try. I don't like tanos but I think it's right for her to try, she knows that she needs to step up her game to win (and I like that she tries to xD)...La Strada tho :acceptable:

Yup I think too that layout is not final.

I wonder who choreographed that program... Dickson? Apparently Rika wanted her program to tell a story and Hamada-sensei suggested "La Strada".

And also wonder about costume, she performed in yellow dress today, but that's her old one. Oh and she'd just changed her boots 1 week ago.

[image]https://amd.c.yimg.jp/im_sigg7uMNh6q2GdqKGjuAZvtDQg---x675-y900-q90-exp3h-pril/amd/20170506-00000092-dal-000-2-view.jpg[/image]

Source of photo: yahoo

[Dara]

Protocols.

 

So Riko's 3A was < while Rika's <<

 

Top Jr. boy was Mitsuki Sumoto who fell on his 3A but rotated it.

He also did 3Lz+1Lo+3F (flip marked as !).

2A as a first and 3Lz+3T as his last jumping passes tho :space:

[Yatagarasu]

Top Jr. boy was Mitsuki Sumoto who fell on his 3A but rotated it.

He also did 3Lz+1Lo+3F (flip marked as !).

2A as a first and 3Lz+3T as his last jumping passes tho :space:

 

He was on the JGP circuit last season if I remember well, came in 3rd at one of the events. Germany maybe? He's 16 I think.

[Gio]

I guess it will be interesting to see who will have a spot on JGP...men's field is pretty weak and among the ladies I guess we'll see some new girls, considering that both Kaori and Marin became seniors. I wonder if Yuna Shiraiwa will follow them...she could benefit from another season as a junior imho. Especially since she wouldn't really have a chance as a senior this year.

 

Rika Kihira aside, who could be in? Riko Takino and Saya Suzuki?

[Dara]

So Rika's FS was choreographed by Buttle (source).

Very interesting, considering Jeffrey own story with this music (he heard it somewhere and LOVED it, but had no idea what it is and where to get it (in was late 90's - early 00's). And when he found "La Strada" mp3 he wanted to get a program to it straight away).

 

Top Jr. boy was Mitsuki Sumoto who fell on his 3A but rotated it.

He also did 3Lz+1Lo+3F (flip marked as !).

2A as a first and 3Lz+3T as his last jumping passes tho :space:

 

He was on the JGP circuit last season if I remember well, came in 3rd at one of the events. Germany maybe? He's 16 I think.

Last season was his second in JGP, but first to medal there, yup.

He's choreographed by Nanami Abe which brought my attention to him in the first place.

[mcq]

My biggest concern about ladies doing 3A is the rotation. If they can't get the rotation called as full (whether they fall or not) like 80-90% of the time, if anything it will just be costly to their scores. getting 3A< fall or worse 3A<< fall is as if you lose an entire jumping box. Luckily riko and rika can still land their other jumps thus it hurt their score less. But the reason why many are reluctant to do 3A is particularly this issue.

[randomanon]

My biggest concern about ladies doing 3A is the rotation. If they can't get the rotation called as full (whether they fall or not) like 80-90% of the time, if anything it will just be costly to their scores. getting 3A< fall or worse 3A<< fall is as if you lose an entire jumping box. Luckily riko and rika can still land their other jumps thus it hurt their score less. But the reason why many are reluctant to do 3A is particularly this issue.

 

So true! UR calls can make that TES plummet ://

 

Yeh the risk and reward weighting for 3A isn't really worth it - there are other, less risky ways to up your score, like maximising GOEs and PCs, or backloading and stuff... [although you could say backloading is quite risky if the skater doesn't have the stamina to pull it off consistently]

[Gio]

My biggest concern about ladies doing 3A is the rotation. If they can't get the rotation called as full (whether they fall or not) like 80-90% of the time, if anything it will just be costly to their scores. getting 3A< fall or worse 3A<< fall is as if you lose an entire jumping box. Luckily riko and rika can still land their other jumps thus it hurt their score less. But the reason why many are reluctant to do 3A is particularly this issue.

 

So true! UR calls can make that TES plummet ://

 

Yeh the risk and reward weighting for 3A isn't really worth it - there are other, less risky ways to up your score, like maximising GOEs and PCs, or backloading and stuff... [although you could say backloading is quite risky if the skater doesn't have the stamina to pull it off consistently]

 

I don't think it's like that anymore. It might have been true before Eteri's team literally broke the system, but as of now it's impossible to catch up with her girls (if they're clean) because they have the best strategy (and consistency). Rika might tano all she wants, but as we've seen it's not easy to do, you need the consistency too...and other than that you need to hit level 4s on everything every time plus high pcs. As of now considering the lead Eteri's girls have on the rest of the field GOE is not enough. To compete with the likes of Shcherbakova and Trusova she might need the 3A. It's not always worth the risk of course, but if you want to win that's what you have to do. You can't rely on things like GOE and levels because Eteri's girls do that better than anyone tbh. imho.

[randomanon]

 

I don't think it's like that anymore. It might have been true before Eteri's team literally broke the system, but as of now it's impossible to catch up with her girls (if they're clean) because they have the best strategy (and consistency). Rika might tano all she wants, but as we've seen it's not easy to do, you need the consistency too...and other than that you need to hit level 4s on everything every time plus high pcs. As of now considering the lead Eteri's girls have on the rest of the field GOE is not enough. To compete with the likes of Shcherbakova and Trusova she might need the 3A. It's not always worth the risk of course, but if you want to win that's what you have to do. You can't rely on things like GOE and levels because Eteri's girls do that better than anyone tbh. imho.

 

well the best strategy would be to add 3A // up your technical content while increasing GOEs and PCs [kind of like yuzu in his early days but with extra quads instead] but the key is consistency + full rotation... the ladies field is kind of a bloodbath right now from 2nd place downwards, one mistake and you drop like 7 places... BV won't save you like it does for mens...

[Gio]

 

I don't think it's like that anymore. It might have been true before Eteri's team literally broke the system, but as of now it's impossible to catch up with her girls (if they're clean) because they have the best strategy (and consistency). Rika might tano all she wants, but as we've seen it's not easy to do, you need the consistency too...and other than that you need to hit level 4s on everything every time plus high pcs. As of now considering the lead Eteri's girls have on the rest of the field GOE is not enough. To compete with the likes of Shcherbakova and Trusova she might need the 3A. It's not always worth the risk of course, but if you want to win that's what you have to do. You can't rely on things like GOE and levels because Eteri's girls do that better than anyone tbh. imho.

 

well the best strategy would be to add 3A // up your technical content while increasing GOEs and PCs [kind of like yuzu in his early days but with extra quads instead] but the key is consistency + full rotation... the ladies field is kind of a bloodbath right now from 2nd place downwards, one mistake and you drop like 7 places... BV won't save you like it does for mens...

 

well, that's what she is trying to do there imo. Adding tano is done to increase GOE after all, and all of that while still trying the 3A. So I think it's right to try now. You need to get adjusted to it so it might take time, but imo she's on the right track if she wants to be competitive.

[mcq]

So true! UR calls can make that TES plummet ://

 

Yeh the risk and reward weighting for 3A isn't really worth it - there are other, less risky ways to up your score, like maximising GOEs and PCs, or backloading and stuff... [although you could say backloading is quite risky if the skater doesn't have the stamina to pull it off consistently]

 

Well, I am not against 3A actually, quite the contrary I think they should go for it. But my concern is that, unlike the men who would still get a fall on quad full points because they got it fully rotated, for ladies it is not always the case. I think, even if your 3A success rate (landed) is 30-50%, as long as you can get them fully rotated like 80-90% of the time, 3A is definitely worth the try. It will still garner higher points than a landed 2A with +1 goe. But if you can't get it fully rotated most of the time, that is a different thing and it is actually pretty risky.

 

We have seen how 3A actually hurt Mao and Liza, but i think it is also partially because their other jumps were not always landed and that solid. For Riko and Rika, it seems like they can still get their other jumps in place despite failing the 3A. But then again, my concern is more on the success rate of the rotation rather than the success rate of the landed 3A.

[randomanon]

 

well, that's what she is trying to do there imo. Adding tano is done to increase GOE after all, and all of that while still trying the 3A. So I think it's right to try now. You need to get adjusted to it so it might take time, but imo she's on the right track if she wants to be competitive.

 

Yeh her strategy is pretty good in the long term sense - just the transitional period might be not so smooth but I think she'll overcome that :)

[Yatagarasu]

We have seen how 3A actually hurt Mao and Liza, but i think it is also partially because their other jumps were not always landed and that solid. For Riko and Rika, it seems like they can still get their other jumps in place despite failing the 3A. But then again, my concern is more on the success rate of the rotation rather than the success rate of the landed 3A.

 

Or Mirai, if she URs consistently, that 3A, also probably a UR sure isn't going to help. I couldn't agree more really. If they can fully rotate the 3A, even with a fall, but do fine on their other triples it's definitely worth the risk. But a UR or worse, a DG, plus potential UR problems on other jumps and lol bust.

Under-rotation is a problem for many ladies and cleaning that up is really a must.

[mcq]

We have seen how 3A actually hurt Mao and Liza, but i think it is also partially because their other jumps were not always landed and that solid. For Riko and Rika, it seems like they can still get their other jumps in place despite failing the 3A. But then again, my concern is more on the success rate of the rotation rather than the success rate of the landed 3A.

 

Or Mirai, if she URs consistently, that 3A, also probably a UR sure isn't going to help. I couldn't agree more really. If they can fully rotate the 3A, even with a fall, but do fine on their other triples it's definitely worth the risk. But a UR or worse, a DG, plus potential UR problems on other jumps and lol bust.

Under-rotation is a problem for many ladies and cleaning that up is really a must.

 

Yes! I think the greatest example for this is Yuzuru himself. He barely landed his 4S for 2 seasons, but because he always fully rotate it, it does not hurt his score at all as long as he landed (and fully rotate) his other jumps. I think this is the same for ladies. As long as they make sure that their 3A is fully rotated all the time, whether they land it or not is secondary (and the more you train it and the longer you get used to it in a program, sooner or later you will master it, Yuzu and 4S is a perfect example). A 3A fall still worth much more than a 2A anyway. (even with +2 goe, I think?)

 

I forgot about Mirai, maybe cause she barely try it in competition.

[Gio]

I think Rika has done pretty well on that. She can't fully rotate it most of the time in competition at the moment, but when she fell on it she always did pretty well anyway, which is a good start imo. Getting consistency on it will probably be the key, I guess we'll see if it happens or not. Just the fact that she did not make a mess of the whole program when she fell is a good sign, we've seen much older and more experienced girls do worse.

 

And she does not have ur issues on other jumps, that's great. While for Mirai it's honestly puzzling, because she should probably address her issues with rotating other triples at first.

Anyway, Japan has so many girls trying 3A, hopefully some of them will find the necessary consistency. I think Sakamoto could have a great 3A.