On 3/26/2023 at 11:31 PM, rockstaryuzu said:

Would love to know where you've taken this sentence from, in context, because as some of Japanese satellites, who live in Japan, and read Japanese, have pointed out, this is something that Yuzu has spoken of many times. 

I pasted the sponichi interview link, as well as the original paragraph of the interview, in my original post... so I'm surprise that you asked. 

 

On 3/26/2023 at 11:31 PM, rockstaryuzu said:

Rest assured, no one would have been on the NS cast list that Yuzu didn't want there.

I was not saying Yuzu didn't want them there. Of course they wouldn't be there if Yuzu doesn't want them there. But it's another thing to say that Yuzu must have invited them to NS by himself and the invitation proved that Yuzu admired their skating (suggested by the satellite below (jump to last sentence)).

My point was the invitation maybe not initiated by Yuzu himself but by some other organizers (as mentioned in his interview regarding inviting Uchimura san), and therefore the invitation itself cannot be a solid proof of Yuzu's admiration towards any of the participants. If he clearly expressed it somewhere else, for example, towards Uchimura san, then I would call it a proof of admiration. 

2 hours ago, JanMary said:

pasted the sponichi interview link, as well as the original paragraph of the interview, in my original post... so I'm surprise that you asked. 

And when I read that original post, translated into English, the interview said the exact opposite of what you say it said. 

 

 

 

Yuzu's participation made all the difference 

19 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

And when I read that original post, translated into English, the interview said the exact opposite of what you say it said. 

 

so I extracted the exact wording so there will not be misunderstanding. It not only says Yuzu is not the one who took the initiative to say he wants to work with Uchimura (僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど), but also he mentioned there is "この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方", or "Those who have organised this 'notte stellata' project", and it shows NS is not produced by yuzu himself. 

 

この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方が、ただのアイスショーではなくて、普通のアイスショーじゃないことをしたい、その中で例えば羽生結弦のショーを見ている方じゃなくても、初めてアイスショーを見に来る方でも『凄い』って、単純に楽しんでいただけるようなものをつくりたいということを言っていただけていて。その中で内村さんとのコラボのお話が出てきました。僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど、それでも、実際形になってみて、歓声を聞いてみて、自分もやってみて、これはこれで新しい形として凄く膨大なエネルギーが生まれるなと思いました。

2 hours ago, JanMary said:

so I extracted the exact wording so there will not be misunderstanding. It not only says Yuzu is not the one who took the initiative to say he wants to work with Uchimura (僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど), but also he mentioned there is "この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方", or "Those who have organised this 'notte stellata' project", and it shows NS is not produced by yuzu himself. 

 

この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方が、ただのアイスショーではなくて、普通のアイスショーじゃないことをしたい、その中で例えば羽生結弦のショーを見ている方じゃなくても、初めてアイスショーを見に来る方でも『凄い』って、単純に楽しんでいただけるようなものをつくりたいということを言っていただけていて。その中で内村さんとのコラボのお話が出てきました。僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど、それでも、実際形になってみて、歓声を聞いてみて、自分もやってみて、これはこれで新しい形として凄く膨大なエネルギーが生まれるなと思いました。

And I'm telling you that when I opened up that link in my web browser and the browser translated it to English, it said exactly the opposite thing. 

 

Furthermore all this contradicts what Yuzu had said previously in many other interviews about wanting to work with Uchimura. But I sense that all you care about is winning this argument, so, I'm stopping right here. You're wrong, and I won't respond to you any further on this topic. Congratulations on wrecking what was a perfectly fine and cordial thread with a pointless argument. 

 

End of. 

On 3/25/2023 at 3:21 PM, rockstaryuzu said:

I must say, Kaori has taken to being World champ like a duck to water! She was made for this 🤩🥰

I've been enjoying watching Kaori so much. Her style of skating doesn't quite have the subtle nuance I love in in most of my other favorite skaters, but the power she has makes for such a compelling, confident presentation, and she looks so dedicated to whatever she's skating, I'm always into it. 

 

IMO, Jun should have won the men's, both his sp and fs deserved the points it would have taken to overtake Shoma, but the women's result was nice, I'm very happy for Kaori. After Yuzu retired I've been finding myself so much more invested in the women's programs because men's mostly doesn't offer what I like about figure skating.

Does anyone know where I can watch the last group of men free skate? I couldn't watch it live and I kind of expected the isu channel to have it on their channel by now....

Or do they have it and I just don't see it? If thats the case, please tell me the country your from, then I can set my vpn and hopefully watch it😉.

 

By the way:

I'm so so proud of Jason and happy for Jun💜.

1 hour ago, Faithyu said:

where I can watch the last group of men free skate?

ISU channel, Live section.

30 minutes ago, nekodearu said:

ISU channel, Live section.

 

Doesn't pop up for me🫤. Only the press cons. Will try with vpn setting later....

so happy that jun medaled! and jason did well too. after yuzu retired jun and jason have become my new obsession

also the korean ladies were fabulous, i especially liked chaeyeon kim's performance

 

 

On 3/25/2023 at 10:55 PM, JanMary said:

Since when giving high points to SU becomes rewarding yuzu type of skating. SU's always been undeservedly rewarded as JSF's fav even when yuzu's still an amateur skater. And he never has yuzu type of skating. No one in men's field has yuzu type of skating. 

 

For IM's pcs, wait till his second senior year. ISU never disappoints. 

 

I'm coming back with WTT. No need to wait till next season, IM already has better ss than Kazuki and Messing at the end of this season!  

On 3/28/2023 at 10:56 PM, JanMary said:

so I extracted the exact wording so there will not be misunderstanding. It not only says Yuzu is not the one who took the initiative to say he wants to work with Uchimura (僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど), but also he mentioned there is "この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方", or "Those who have organised this 'notte stellata' project", and it shows NS is not produced by yuzu himself. 

 

この『notte　stellata』の企画を組んでくださった方が、ただのアイスショーではなくて、普通のアイスショーじゃないことをしたい、その中で例えば羽生結弦のショーを見ている方じゃなくても、初めてアイスショーを見に来る方でも『凄い』って、単純に楽しんでいただけるようなものをつくりたいということを言っていただけていて。その中で内村さんとのコラボのお話が出てきました。僕が率先して内村さんとやりたいと言ったわけではないんですけど、それでも、実際形になってみて、歓声を聞いてみて、自分もやってみて、これはこれで新しい形として凄く膨大なエネルギーが生まれるなと思いました。

 

Hi, @JanMary I have some ideas regarding the problem of translating Japanese to English - as the direct translation totally misses out on the whole host of nuances that Yuzu is trying to express in this very round-about response regarding the collaboration with King Kohei.  I know the direct translation would suggest what you are saying and you are correct from this perspective.  But the way Yuzu went so far out of his way to obfuscate the response raised questions in my own mind as to why he did so, and I have my personal reflections below under the spoiler. 

 

 

Spoiler

 

I think this is a prime example where the nuances of Japanese language does not properly translate, especially into English language which demands a fairly black-and-white precision in describing our feelings, whereas Japanese language deliberately obfuscates our feelings and are meant to be "read" within the nuanced context.  In this example, Yuzu is being extremely and deliberately round-about in the way he describes how the collaboration with Uchimura Kohei came into being, probably because he is aware of many sensitivies around this topic.  The way he goes beating around the bush alerts the Japanese listener immediately that this is not a normal situation and it raised my antennae up (why is he being so diffident?)   Why is he making such an effort to say that he didn't directly ask to work with Uchimura.  I interpreted this unusual diffidence as Yuzu being sharply aware of how careful he has to be on this point, and is going out of his way to avoid appearing "arrogant " by making a demand on someone who is as highly respected as Uchimura and much more senior than Yuzu in many respects.   If Yuzu had said something along the lines of "I was really interested in collaborating with Uchimura Senshu,"  he would have probably received a lot of bashing from the Japanese antis who already find him far too outspoken and full of himself.  Upon reflection, I realized I would find it also rather too forward to make a direct demand like a collaboration with a high-level person when I am in Japan, and I also go out of the way to use a round-about way of speaking and making requests. (I am not like this when I am speaking English - I am quite direct and demanding and impatient with those who beat about the bush).  Yuzu had already expressed admiration for King Kohei in other interviews but he has not talked about doing a show together, so this is something new and unprecedented.  

 

 

The preceding sentence clarifies how this discussion came about: Yuzu makes reference to the people who helped him with the production of Notte Stellata, and he comments that they had recommended making NS into a show that can be enjoyed by people who usually never watch figure skating, and these people should find something in the show that is surprising / astonishing.  Yuzu says that it was in the context of this discussion that the idea of collaborating with Uchimura came up - and here he quickly clarifies that he was not the one to suggest this collaboration and emphasizes that this idea arose out of their discussion - as though it had emerged organically.  Yuzu does not say explicitly whether he did or did not suggest it.  As I noted above, he really goes out of his way to clarify that he was not the first to suggest it, but at the same time he does not say that the idea had come from some other members of the NS team. As Yuzu says at the end - while he avoids clarifying whose idea it was to collaborate with Kohei - he is glad that this idea emerged and that it took the form that it did.

 

Japanese conversations are often nuanced to the point we cannot point a finger at who had suggested made the point first, and it helps to make sure everyone in the group feels ownership of the idea, and not be led by a single lord.  Our use of various declensions and tenses allows us to hint at one thing when we mean another, and the group is expected to pick up on that nuance.  We value consensus highly and this helps creat the feeling of harmony among the group.  But it can also exacerbate many of the negative consequences of group-think, including the lack of individual accountability...  But that is another topic for discussion!  

 

I hope this clarifies why it is tough to translate Yuzu's Japanese interviews into English.  A lot of nuances are missed in the process.  

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Umebachi said:

 

Hi, @JanMary I have some ideas regarding the problem of translating Japanese to English - as the direct translation totally misses out on the whole host of nuances that Yuzu is trying to express in this very round-about response regarding the collaboration with King Kohei.  I know the direct translation would suggest what you are saying and you are correct from this perspective.  But the way Yuzu went so far out of his way to obfuscate the response raised questions in my own mind as to why he did so, and I have my personal reflections below under the spoiler. 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I think this is a prime example where the nuances of Japanese language does not properly translate, especially into English language which demands a fairly black-and-white precision in describing our feelings, whereas Japanese language deliberately obfuscates our feelings and are meant to be "read" within the nuanced context.  In this example, Yuzu is being extremely and deliberately round-about in the way he describes how the collaboration with Uchimura Kohei came into being, probably because he is aware of many sensitivies around this topic.  The way he goes beating around the bush alerts the Japanese listener immediately that this is not a normal situation and it raised my antennae up (why is he being so diffident?)   Why is he making such an effort to say that he didn't directly ask to work with Uchimura.  I interpreted this unusual diffidence as Yuzu being sharply aware of how careful he has to be on this point, and is going out of his way to avoid appearing "arrogant " by making a demand on someone who is as highly respected as Uchimura and much more senior than Yuzu in many respects.   If Yuzu had said something along the lines of "I was really interested in collaborating with Uchimura Senshu,"  he would have probably received a lot of bashing from the Japanese antis who already find him far too outspoken and full of himself.  Upon reflection, I realized I would find it also rather too forward to make a direct demand like a collaboration with a high-level person when I am in Japan, and I also go out of the way to use a round-about way of speaking and making requests. (I am not like this when I am speaking English - I am quite direct and demanding and impatient with those who beat about the bush).  Yuzu had already expressed admiration for King Kohei in other interviews but he has not talked about doing a show together, so this is something new and unprecedented.  

 

 

The preceding sentence clarifies how this discussion came about: Yuzu makes reference to the people who helped him with the production of Notte Stellata, and he comments that they had recommended making NS into a show that can be enjoyed by people who usually never watch figure skating, and these people should find something in the show that is surprising / astonishing.  Yuzu says that it was in the context of this discussion that the idea of collaborating with Uchimura came up - and here he quickly clarifies that he was not the one to suggest this collaboration and emphasizes that this idea arose out of their discussion - as though it had emerged organically.  Yuzu does not say explicitly whether he did or did not suggest it.  As I noted above, he really goes out of his way to clarify that he was not the first to suggest it, but at the same time he does not say that the idea had come from some other members of the NS team. As Yuzu says at the end - while he avoids clarifying whose idea it was to collaborate with Kohei - he is glad that this idea emerged and that it took the form that it did.

 

Japanese conversations are often nuanced to the point we cannot point a finger at who had suggested made the point first, and it helps to make sure everyone in the group feels ownership of the idea, and not be led by a single lord.  Our use of various declensions and tenses allows us to hint at one thing when we mean another, and the group is expected to pick up on that nuance.  We value consensus highly and this helps creat the feeling of harmony among the group.  But it can also exacerbate many of the negative consequences of group-think, including the lack of individual accountability...  But that is another topic for discussion!  

 

I hope this clarifies why it is tough to translate Yuzu's Japanese interviews into English.  A lot of nuances are missed in the process.  

 

 

 

Thank you for your very detailed interpretation and explanation of the nuances in Japanese language. My interpretation was, for example, if an idea was not initiated by me and it turned out to be a great success, and when someone asked me about it assuming I was the leader, I would declare clearly that this good idea was not by me but should be credited to someone else, because I don't want to take someone else's merit.

 

Spoiler

Anyway I was just trying to suggest that Yuzu didn't decide the cast all by himself. And I was pointing this out to argue with some other satellite's point ("because XX is invited to NS, Yuzu must admire this person's skating"). I wish we can know more about how ice shows are made in the future. 

 

I watched the ladies and mens free skate WTT, just some quick thoughts:

 

The atmosphere looked really nice and the audience changing their flags for every skater was such a nice thing to do.

 

It looked like the skaters had a party in their booths and just enjoyed it, nice to see.

 

Kaori and the Bodyguards part II:

This was so funny, when she was waiting for the scores and these two guys got moved into the booth, looking all serious and the others putting Kaori paper faces in their hands😂.

(but, are these real bodyguards or is it like a joke? Because why would she need bodyguards, the reason is most of the time not a good one and I hope thats not the case....)

 

Jun winning the free!!!🥳😁😎🤩😍

 

Jason doing the winners interview for team america in japanese and letting the translator only speak for one question was just😎💪😁.

And him beeing pure sunshine.

 

Hope all get a good rest. Will be interesting to see what will happen next season.