Yuzuru Jumps Very High

[rockstaryuzu]

17 hours ago, HRvF said:

I actually also believe he has the ability to land a quint.

Not sure if you missed it but during the morass of interviews and press stuff surrounding ACI this year, Yuzuru did casually mention he'd been trying quints in harness in order to work on the rotation speed for 4A. Ghislain confirmed, literally said "i never thought I'd see someone do a 5S in my lifetime". So Yuzu has done quints already, in training with the harness. 

[SitTwizzle]

19 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

  Reveal hidden contents

If Galileo died within the graces of the Church, he would have been buried within church grounds as was the custom at the time, but he was not. I have no doubt the man had his faults, but it is a matter of recorded history that the Church did excommunicate him over heliocentrism. 

 

As for his hand, the history reported in the Galileo Museum, which anyone can go and read, is simply that it was an accidental happening. Why they didn't just tuck the hand back in and pretend it never fell out in the first place, I don't know; but I do know that the reason it is on display is because proponents of the Enlightenment in the 18th century sought it out and created the display . For what purpose, who knows, but I doubt it was out of any discovery that Galileo was somehow become a saint. 

 

Incidentally, it is a very small hand for a man's. I suspect Galileo was quite short. 

 

Spoiler

Hmmm... Much persisting legend again. He was buried close to Holy Cross basilica in Florence (holy land anyway) not yet inside, because the grave and monument inside had yet to be erected, it was the normal process. Fernando II wanted a great monument, twin to Michelangelo's by Varese, and there it seems that the Pope opposed to such a monument, which was made only a century later (or there was another reason to prevent its erection) — during which Galileo was resting in "holy land for the privileged" instead of "a place for the great", I would say.

Well, maybe we should open a new thread if we are to continue.

 

I hadn't read about Ghislain Briand's confirmation, that's great! When was it? So it were salchows?

I cannot imagine Nathan Chen managing a quad axel (or he would have to switch coaches), do you think he may some day land a quint? He already worries me because of the stiffness of his landings, I am under the impression that, for all pre-med he takes, he is doing himself serious harm. Plus the axis instability?

 

[rockstaryuzu]

8 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Hmmm... Much persisting legend again. He was buried close to Holy Cross basilica in Florence (holy land anyway) not yet inside, because the grave and monument inside had yet to be erected, it was the normal process. Fernando II wanted a great monument, twin to Michelangelo's by Varese, and there it seems that the Pope opposed to such a monument, which was made only a century later (or there was another reason to prevent its erection) — during which Galileo was resting in "holy land for the privileged" instead of "a place for the great", I would say.

Well, maybe we should open a new thread if we are to continue.

 

I hadn't read about Ghislain Briand's confirmation, that's great! When was it? So it were salchows?

 

 

Now I can't find the quote back, but I'm sure I read it somewhere. However, if you go read over the Olympic Channel's blog about GPF Turin, at one point they interview Ghislain and he talks about 5T bring easier than 4A. 

[ZuCritter]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this fascinating discussion, especially @HRvF!

 

I would give anything to lurk when Yuzu, Ghislain and the other coaches try to work out the mechanics of the 4A -- or any new skill. So many factors come in to play -- not only on the side of physics but on the side of how Yuzu processes information and learns.

 

I'm sure they have very technical conversations like the one in this thread. And, given what we know about the importance to Yuzu of image training, I'm sure that visualizing the experience of a successful 4A is central to his process. That was echoed in his comment at 4CC about getting to the point where he's able to "see the shape" of the jump (I'm paraphrasing).

 

I also expect that to a large extent, he's just feeling his way into it -- thinking with his body rather than his brain. Not that the two are really separate, but I suspect that in the end, the kinesthetic wisdom gained over the whole span of his career will lead him to Nessie. 

 

And finally, there's the really unquantifiable element: his will to excel. How many others may have dreamed of mastering the 4A but given up? And then there are those who would never even attempt it. Nathan -- whom I admire -- has more or less indicated that he has no intention of venturing into such dangerous territory (despite anything Raf or Johnny might suggest). Only Yuzu has the courage and the determination to pursue this beast. And that makes him a GOAT among GOATs!

 

 

[SitTwizzle]

Oh, I didn't need the quote at all, I just wondered when it was, approximately.

For instance, it was announced that Yuzuru Hanyu could land some 4A, as soon as early 2018 (hence I suppose the abnormal base value for it in the new system), but he doesn't skate it in his programs yet. Though I guess that as with any of his jumps, he will not show it until he can skate it perfectly AND with superb entry and transition.

[HRvF]

20 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Spoiler

 

All that might be true, but Galileo was most definitely ex-communicated (i.e. barred from receiving the Eucharist) 1633 by the Catholic Church (in fact, by the Inquisition) for insisting that the earth went around the sun, and not the other way. He wasn't even allowed to be buried on church grounds in the consecrated cemetary reserved for the baptized, when he died. It wasn't until 1991 that Pope John Paul II issued an apology and a recognition that the Church had erred in condemning him. 

 

It may be entirely true that his peers were the cause of him being dragged before the Inquisition to explain himself, however. 

 

Anyway, the poor man has not been allowed to rest in peace - his remains have been moved several times over the centuries and what's left of his right hand (which fell out of his coffin during one of these moves) is currently on display in a bell jar at the Galileo Museum in Florence, Italy. Gave me quite a shock when I stumbled across it. Poor Galileo did not deserve that.

 

 

Spoiler

That's really quite sad.

 

[HRvF]

15 hours ago, Umebachi said:

Thank you for your fantastic obsession!  This is very-stimulating and enriching.   I love detailed technical discussions and happy to learn by reading up on science.   

 

If only he could find a way to speed up his spin a smidgen without losing height!  The pull-in motion of the arms will be critical but even a very subtle and slight change can throw the body off axis and with so much angular momentum the tiniest deviation will amplify rapidly.    Also, his slightly slower entry speed with wider elbow angle and relaxed shoulders result in an aesthetically pleasing motion.  Perhaps this is one of the reasons why his entry into jumps look so much more dynamic and organic than Nathan's entry - which is smaller and more efficient but mechanical (we are not even talking about the landing!). 

 

To jump the 4A  Yuzu may need to go all out for that efficient spinning motion from the start of the jump.  He will probably need greater ab strength to keep the body in that tight but resilient coil!

Thank you and wow, you explained that so succinctly and perfectly!

[HRvF]

14 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Yuzuru did casually mention he'd been trying quints in harness in order to work on the rotation speed for 4A. Ghislain confirmed, literally said "i never thought I'd see someone do a 5S in my lifetime". So Yuzu has done quints already, in training with the harness. 

(I did miss that!)

 

O M Gosh!!!

 

me <= "faints" 

[HRvF]

3 hours ago, ZuCritter said:

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this fascinating discussion, especially @HRvF!

Thank you for reading!

 

3 hours ago, ZuCritter said:

I would give anything to lurk when Yuzu, Ghislain and the other coaches try to work out the mechanics of the 4A -- or any new skill. So many factors come in to play -- not only on the side of physics but on the side of how Yuzu processes information and learns.

IKR !!

 

3 hours ago, ZuCritter said:

I'm sure they have very technical conversations like the one in this thread. And, given what we know about the importance to Yuzu of image training, I'm sure that visualizing the experience of a successful 4A is central to his process. That was echoed in his comment at 4CC about getting to the point where he's able to "see the shape" of the jump (I'm paraphrasing).

 

I also expect that to a large extent, he's just feeling his way into it -- thinking with his body rather than his brain. Not that the two are really separate, but I suspect that in the end, the kinesthetic wisdom gained over the whole span of his career will lead him to Nessie. 

I agree! Also, I think it's a bit like throwing a ball. You don't really actually calculate trajectories and stuff - you "feel" it.

But I believe if anyone can do it, it's Yuzu! (Although I'd be 100% fine with whatever direction his skating path takes.)

 

3 hours ago, ZuCritter said:

Only Yuzu has the courage and the determination to pursue this beast. And that makes him a GOAT among GOATs!

Absolutely! 

[HRvF]

3 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

For instance, it was announced that Yuzuru Hanyu could land some 4A, as soon as early 2018

I also heard those "rumors" (well actually saw it in comments, but never knew the primary source). But wow, this season has been packed and crazy as it is! I can't imagine if 4A in competition happened this season as well, my heart! 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, HRvF said:

  Hide contents

That's really quite sad.

 

Spoiler

I thought so. 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

4 hours ago, ZuCritter said:

Only Yuzu has the courage and the determination to pursue this beast. And that makes him a GOAT among GOATs!

I wholeheartedly admire and am in awe of his determination to make nine-year-old Yuzu's dreams come true, one by one. He was one determined mushroom and now look how far he's gotten! 

[Dreamer]

Nathan's 3A is not his strongest jump at all...so he is wise not to attempt 4A.

Yuzu has the best 3A ..fairest of them all...which he can do from backcounter or a standstill, so it makes sense that if anyone can do it, Yuzu can

[monchan]

Yuzu is the only one to ever put down a 4A<. I feel we can see it fully rotated next season. The attempt in GPF was cool. But you can see how dangerous the fall is and the risk of injury is high that it's necessary to be careful all the times. If it's only for points its just not worth it as its only 1pt higher than 4lz ( muchhhhh easier to cheat and land), so i dont see motivation from other skaters to do it. They have to take care of their scoring first. Only Yuzu has spare time and mind to work on it.

 

Btw here is the only 4A attempt in comp so far:

Correction: It's DOWNGRADED, not UR. The fall looks scaryyy. I cant imagine how many falls Yuzu must have before landing 4A. Hope his ankle can survive.

[SitTwizzle]

On 2/19/2020 at 8:16 PM, HRvF said:

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That's really quite sad.

 

Spoiler

 

How fortunate so, that it was not true. ;-)

(The Galileo legend, by the way, seems to be rather an English thing, as Lutherans and even Calvinists resent his insults to Kepler.)