General Yuzuru Chat

[Katt]

I'm ok with him doing Ballade 3.0. I'm not really fond of it, but not against it either and I'm looking forward to see his performance next season (that 4T3T right at the note does wonders to me). I can understand why some people don't like it and its fine, its not that they don't like Yuzuru anymore, just his decision this time. You can't satisfy all people out there. A little part of me still hope there's a small chance for new SP, simply because I think he is capable of more than this. But I think the most important things is he should do whatever he feel comfortable with. At the end of the day he is the one who skate, and like he said only he could know exactly that feeling. Sometimes I forget how exhaust physically and emotionally skaters must go through, especially in olympic season. So if he decide Ballade 3.0 is good for him in this tough season, I can only support it. 

[b138oo]

Can we just move on from this "recycling" topic?? It really annoys me tbh not bc I don't agree with you guys or I can't appreciate different opinions. It's just I feel like the decision is made, Yuzu will skate to Chopin to attain his goal, so as his fans, can't we be more supportive? Comments and critics are welcome bc this is a fan forum after all. We come to give out our opinions. However, this topic has been too draggy at this point, no? And it's not like he will skate the same exact program as in 2015-2016 season, he will make changes. I understand some of you are disappointed with his limited choice of music, and yeah there are millions of music out there, but not all music would make a masterpiece figure skating program. And the Olympic is a big thing. It's Yuzu's dream and goal. He wants it million times more than us. He knows what he's doing.

I think a lot of people forget that he is an athlete first than an artist. Yes, he loves to emphasize artistry in his program, but what is artistry and creativity if those cannot give him gold medals. His first job as an athlete is to win, that's why he chooses a career in sports and not in art industry. 

 

Sorry for my long rant and I don't want to offend anyone. This is just purely my honest opinion. 

[Lyyli]

15 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Keep in mind that there's going to be a rule change post Olympics, with one jumping pass less, 30 seconds off the FS program length, GOEs scale widened and possibly the ceiling on PCS is going to be raised. We have to wait and see exactly what they'll decide but considering that, we're probably going to have a whole lot of adjustments come 2019 anyway.

Thanks for the reply, also to LadyLou on your earlier reply on this topic. 

 

Yes, my questions are probably irrelevant because of the coming rule change. I´m not upset nor see Chopin3 as a problem because the rules allow it at the moment. I was wondering what kind of influence this choice might have in the future of this sport. Maybe none, I don´t know, but if Yuzu gets what he wants at OG, many skaters might like to follow his way of doing things. Would they start keeping and polishing their programs more often for two or three seasons. Would this polishing be a good thing and produce better programs or could the programs turn out to be kind of "Olympic period warhorses". Would ISU allow this or change the rules and restrict the reuse for two seasons or start giving deductions etc. These kind of questions came to my mind.
 

[crystal]

18 minutes ago, Lyyli said:

Thanks for the reply, also to LadyLou on your earlier reply on this topic. 

 

Yes, my questions are probably irrelevant because of the coming rule change. I´m not upset nor see Chopin3 as a problem because the rules allow it at the moment. I was wondering what kind of influence this choice might have in the future of this sport. Maybe none, I don´t know, but if Yuzu gets what he wants at OG, many skaters might like to follow his way of doing things. Would they start keeping and polishing their programs more often for two or three seasons. Would this polishing be a good thing and produce better programs or could the programs turn out to be kind of "Olympic period warhorses". Would ISU allow this or change the rules and restrict the reuse for two seasons or start giving deductions etc. These kind of questions came to my mind.
 

Chopin is the world record program, which has been above 110 two times. I don't think many skaters could have such powerful program, even in the future.

[Lyyli]

Just now, sublimeskating said:

 

and these are very good questions

 

because while it's ok to repeat something once or twice, at what point should there be a limit?  it won't be good if everyone just keeps repeating things over and over again (repeat once or twice is ok, but if something get repeated 3+ times then it's a problem)...

 

i think with the new rule change, everything will get a bit more confusing...  i'm not sure if the rule changes are good or bad...

Thanks, I have actually not studied the contents of the rule change so I can´t say anything about it yet. I do hope that also the ceiling on PCS is going to be raised. 

[meoima]

And frankly, judges will inflate other skaters's scores no matter what, we have known from this season. Javi with old style for 5 years still get huge scores. Nathan without proper skating still get good PCS and GOE. Shoma with cheated jumps and virtually no difficult transitions still get huge scores.

 

On the other hand, Yuzuru skated to something new, more difficult in both programs (Let's go crazy and Hope and Legacy) and got quite lower scores than he should. So by repeating programs that he had gotten much better scores, it's the same as saying: "I did harder stuff and you didn't appreciate, how about I skate to the stuff you guys gave huge scores in the past, dare you underscore me now?"

 

At this point people have to understand, judges don't care if you have something new, whether difficult music, innovative set up, packed transitions... they all don't matter. Judges give you scores based on reputation and politics. If I were Yuzuru I would just skate to no transitions and say: "Screw you guys, now I do the same as other guys, give me same scores as them."

 

Instead, Yuzuru even he comes back to old programs, he still makes them harder, with more transitions and harder layout. This strategy surely give the judges no room to underscore him when he does well. Because judges already threw candies to these programs before, they can not take it back, and with higher BV, jugdes also can not underscore him cause those base values are constant. 

[beki]

2 hours ago, PomeloPooh said:

The reason for the opposite reactions may be that most fans there start watching FS only because of Yuzu, thus they 1)don't have any established dislike for warhorses or repeating programs, and 2)look at anything first from a pure Yuzu perspective, presuming he makes the best decision and starting analysis from there. There's this sense of "having faith in him or not" involved. I won't say that's the best way of reasoning and opinion-forming in general but in this case I think it applies, since he and his team have more professional knowledge as well as information about current situation than we do, and should have played all the scenarios we have. 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with this explanation on differing perspectives and backgrounds. I definitely don't think I know better how to win the Olympics. I don't know that at all. I just know what I like and what I want to see.

 

I can understand others wanting to move on from the topic now that the decision is made. That sounds constructive.

 

But if we define being supportive as changing from being disappointed to being happy and excited, that may be a bit much. I respect other people's right to set goals and make their own decisions. To know themselves. 

 

But it's also important to me to stay connected to my own feelings, values and opinions. There's no one in this world who  completely overrides that, not even Yuzu. Well, I guess if anyone could, it would be him.

 

The gold is his goal, and I want him to have it. If I'm not 100% overjoyed along the way, that's just how life is, and it's fine. I will focus on what does satisfy me, even if I don't love Chopin 3.0.

[MrPudding]

4 minutes ago, meoima said:

And frankly, judges will inflate other skaters's scores no matter what, we have known from this season. Javi with old style for 5 years still get huge scores. Nathan without proper skating still get good PCS and GOE. Shoma with cheated jumps and virtually no difficult transitions still get huge scores.

 

On the other hand, Yuzuru skated to something new, more difficult in both programs (Let's go crazy and Hope and Legacy) and got quite lower scores than he should. So by repeating programs that he had gotten much better scores, it's the same as saying: "I did harder stuff and you didn't appreciate, how about I skate to the stuff you guys gave huge scores in the past, dare you underscore me now?"

 

At this point people have to understand, judges don't care if you have something new, wheather difficult music, innovative set up, packed transitions... they all don't matter. Judges give you scores based on reputation and politics. If I were Yuzuru I would just skate to no transitions and say: "Screw you guys, now I do the same as other guys, give me same scores as them."

 

Instead, Yuzuru even he comes back to old programs, he still makes them harder, with more transitions and harder layout. This strategy surely give the judges no room to underscore him when he does well. Because judges already threw candies to these programs before, they can not take it back, and with higher BV, jugdes also can not underscore him cause those base values are constant. 

Preach 

[beki]

7 minutes ago, meoima said:

And frankly, judges will inflate other skaters's scores no matter what, we have known from this season. Javi with old style for 5 years still get huge scores. Nathan without proper skating still get good PCS and GOE. Shoma with cheated jumps and virtually no difficult transitions still get huge scores.

 

On the other hand, Yuzuru skated to something new, more difficult in both programs (Let's go crazy and Hope and Legacy) and got quite lower scores than he should. So by repeating programs that he had gotten much better scores, it's the same as saying: "I did harder stuff and you didn't appreciate, how about I skate to the stuff you guys gave huge scores in the past, dare you underscore me now?"

 

At this point people have to understand, judges don't care if you have something new, wheather difficult music, innovative set up, packed transitions... they all don't matter. Judges give you scores based on reputation and politics. If I were Yuzuru I would just skate to no transitions and say: "Screw you guys, now I do the same as other guys, give me same scores as them."

 

Instead, Yuzuru even he comes back to old programs, he still makes them harder, with more transitions and harder layout. This strategy surely give the judges no room to underscore him when he does well. Because judges already threw candies to these programs before, they can not take it back, and with higher BV, jugdes also can not underscore him cause those base values are constant. 

 

That's very smart. But isn't it sad, that with their underscoring the judges have taken away the possibility of new masterpieces from him? To me it is, and I haven't quite picked myself up and moved on from the loss yet.

[PomeloPooh]

6 minutes ago, meoima said:

On the other hand, Yuzuru skated to something new, more difficult in both programs (Let's go crazy and Hope and Legacy) and got quite lower scores than he should. So by repeating programs that he had gotten much better scores, it's the same as saying: "I did harder stuff and you didn't appreciate, how about I skate to the stuff you guys gave huge scores in the past, dare you underscore me now?"

 

THIS. My exact thought when I first heard about Chopin 3.0. The baseline to start scoring a clean skate from is the world record. How about that, judges? I think in Oly season this would be worth a bit "sacrifice" even, though I myself don't consider performing Chopin again any sacrifice artistically. I'm super excited to see how he further polishes it.

[Winnie_20]

3 minutes ago, meoima said:

At this point people have to understand, judges don't care if you have something new, wheather difficult music, innovative set up, packed transitions... they all don't matter. Judges give you scores based on reputation and politics. If I were Yuzuru I would just skate to no transitions and say: "Screw you guys, now I do the same as other guys, give me same scores as them."

Hhhmmm... I was gonna reply to your other long message, but this bit is actually the most compelling to me. Those are probably the main reasons why he's sticking with Chopin. There does seem to be a trend there.

 

I'm not gonna lie: I don't like the idea of him doing 'the same thing' again, and I kind of think if it were any other skater doing this 3.0 thing, he/she would be getting a lot of criticism (hence the lazy argument, that still is what it feels like to me. I know the man isn't lazy, anything but, but also, if I were a casual TV viewer, watching the Olys, and this commentator goes, "He is reusing the same program for a third year", oh, I'd probably not be going, "Oh, that is so smart of him!" but going "Gee, couldn't even be bothered to come up with something new for the biggest competition of the sports").

However, fortunately I don't need to be convinced that he can manage to pull of something spectacular with this program, because I have enough trust in the guy that he knows what's possible. I trusted him to pull off a spectacular FS in Helsinki, and that didn't turn out too badly.

[Katt]

 I think all people here always root for Yuzuru no matter what, but at the same time, we can have our own feeling. Some people like it, some people don't and its fine. I feel like Yuzuru spoiled us a bit with two great programs this seasons so people can't help but expecting the same things, more or less. Sometime its not just all about the score. What @meoima said its probably true, but its a sad reality in this sport. Well, I guess we can't have it all, there're always somethings that need to sacrifice.

Its good that Yuzuru reveal Ballade 3.0 so early, we will have the whole summer to process it. Some people may need longer time to move on. I hope we all can enjoy Yuzuru's performance next season, in our own ways 

[meoima]

14 minutes ago, Winnie_20 said:

Hhhmmm... I was gonna reply to your other long message, but this bit is actually the most compelling to me. Those are probably the main reasons why he's sticking with Chopin. There does seem to be a trend there.

 

I'm not gonna lie: I don't like the idea of him doing 'the same thing' again, and I kind of think if it were any other skater doing this 3.0 thing, he/she would be getting a lot of criticism (hence the lazy argument, that still is what it feels like to me. I know the man isn't lazy, anything but, but also, if I were a casual TV viewer, watching the Olys, and this commentator goes, "He is reusing the same program for a third year", oh, I'd probably not be going, "Oh, that is so smart of him!" but going "Gee, couldn't even be bothered to come up with something new for the biggest competition of the sports").

However, fortunately I don't need to be convinced that he can manage to pull of something spectacular with this program, because I have enough trust in the guy that he knows what's possible. I trusted him to pull off a spectacular FS in Helsinki, and that didn't turn out too badly.

Most casual viewers don't care if the skaters have reused the program for their whole life. I have seen people who know Yuzuru but don't know that Yuzuru has reused Chopin again and again. In Olympic season, most people who sit before television watching Olympic will not have a clue which programs are old. As long as he doesn't skate to PW or Romeo again. 

The point of Olympic is to skate to the best programs with cleanest execution. Had it been Beethoven he would have chosen something he had performed many times before. 

Heck, even Bach and Mozart reuse their own melodies many times. They occasionally copied this and pasted to that. It's not something new in the art world. 

[Mitya]

They were doing it every season in a row, repeating SP. Not big deal. The only fault of poor Ballade now is it already has been used twice. 

I'm just sure the were planning to use LGC at Olymics if it would work nearly well this season. But it didn't. So Ballade seems only and good choice.

[PomeloPooh]

27 minutes ago, beki said:

I think you hit the nail on the head with this explanation on differing perspectives and backgrounds. I definitely don't think I know better how to win the Olympics. I don't know that at all. I just know what I like and what I want to see.

 

I can understand others wanting to move on from the topic now that the decision is made. That sounds constructive.

 

But if we define being supportive as changing from being disappointed to being happy and excited, that may be a bit much. I respect other people's right to set goals and make their own decisions. To know themselves. 

 

But it's also important to me to stay connected to my own feelings, values and opinions. There's no one in this world who  completely overrides that, not even Yuzu. Well, I guess if anyone could, it would be him.

 

The gold is his goal, and I want him to have it. If I'm not 100% overjoyed along the way, that's just how life is, and it's fine. I will focus on what does satisfy me, even if I don't love Chopin 3.0.

 

Yes, we may need to acknowledge that not all fans totally agree with all of  Yuzu's core values and priorities, but those who disagree are still supportive fans.

 

Yuzu, despite his amazing musicality & refinement in artistic expression, chose figure skating and became who he is today because of, according to his words, his natural and strong desire to win, and the thrill of conquering difficult elements. I don't doubt that his vision of an ideal skate contains much more than score-earning stuff, as he's already shown us in his every program, but it could still differ from that of those fans who value the artistic possibilities above all else. I myself became Yuzu's fan more because of his strong spirit of athleticism and his fearless chasing of perfection, but I think I could understand why those fans are disappointed. It's fair and normal, and it seems to have not taken their support for Yuzu away.

 

Well, we became his fans for different reasons, but the one we love is the same person.  I think that fact, even with our disagreements here and there, is enough for us!