General Yuzuru Chat

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

^Those are truly excellent points but the media has a role to play and being a fair narrator has never been it, no matter how much they appeal themselves as otherwise. A vast majority of them, all the major ones, have skewed biases and interests in one way or another. It's just how it is. So when someone digs deeper for themselves and realizes those points you made, they'd be even more in awe. Even though it's still early yet, Chen has certainly shown growth this season based on what he experienced in the last. In a way, I see more growth in him than I do Uno. It's interesting to see what he'll bring to the ice this time when he'll be sharing it with the One Everyone Dreams to Beat this early in the season.

 

And I think the thing with Medvedeva being more stagnant to watch for some is not because she's consistent. It's because she isn't pushing the envelope, as in she's not challenged or driven to improve personally enough to want to pile on the difficulty after each success. Because if she did, she'd likely be less consistent but she'd definitely be more exciting because her talent in both skating and mental control is 200% legit. She has a better hold on it than anyone else in all the fields I'm seeing right now, and with content that isn't easy even if flawed in parts, so even if she were less consistent because of increasing difficulty, I'm willing to bet she'd still be more consistent than everyone. That's something that's truly special about her which she deserves full credit for.

[yuzuangel]

56 minutes ago, the50person said:

 

i know right 

[axelsandwich]

29 minutes ago, Yolo3a said:

I think everyone in men's field currently goes into competition like they are gonna end up behind Yuzu. That takes a whole load off pressure off your shoulders no? If you go in and is expecting yourself to win, you are setting yourself up so high and that might be the single most powerful fact that works against you. And Yuzu has been performing like that since last 4 years. Every competition has that expectation and obviously, as a human being, he would fail in some of them. All the others, especially in Yuzu starring events go in as 'let me do my best and see where I end up in the scale' attitude. Especially Shoma and Boyang. That's why they are more consistent. Nathan beat Yuzu once and that I think was the biggest weight he carried to worlds. He knew he could beat Yuzu and emerge as winner and for once he had the pressure that Yuzu has in ever competition. And we know how Nathan did boot issues aside. 

What I am trying to say is, mere mortals would have succumbed to that pressure ages ago, and Yuzu still goes on, like a warrior. So, if he fails occasionally, like in worlds SP or WTT, it is because who he is and the pedestal we have put him on, and the other guys does perform more evenly and consistently because they are at a much better place. I just wish everyone saw this. Especially media and commentators. 

I feel like Javi who constantly competes well against Yuzu  should be applauded in this area as he knows he can beat him if Yuzu underperformed but he still manages that pressure pretty well. May be that's what experience does to you. 

 

PS: I love zhenya but she bores me so much. I have never seen her programmes more than once or waited breathlessly for her competition results. Consistency can be pretty nice, but Yuzu's human-ness is,if he performed well, that would be otherworldly and if he fails, it's heartbreaking and still spectacular somehow. I love that about him. 

It's to be expected of someone in Yuzu's position and anyone who is at the 'top' of their sport, so I'm not particularly surprised when the media freaks out about every little mistake. The pressure, the heightened expectation is a natural part of being at the top and part of the 'bell curve' that the dominant athlete of a discipline gets measured against, if they end up in that position. We also have Zhenya whose superhuman dominance adds to the contrast/perception of invulnerability - which, all credit to her, is simply astounding but also presents a convenient point of comparison even if it's not particularly fair. Mark of character is how they deal with that pressure and, perhaps even more importantly, how they bounce back from when they falter against that pressure and Yuzu has my eternal respect for always being able to turn his failures into motivation. He's an emotional skater and his skates are emotional extremes, and that's why we love him. 

 

Really, I see a lot of people stressed out about the media/commentators being unfair and we can laugh at them, we can gently poke fun at them but, at the end of the day, they're media. Trying to sell a narrative, something that will generate discussion, and many different opinions abound... it's part and parcel of the overall experience ( : let's just enjoy the process as much as we can and hopefully watch the naysayers get proven wrong

[yuzuangel]

18 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

And I think the thing with Medvedeva being more stagnant to watch for some is not because she's consistent. It's because she isn't pushing the envelope, as in she's not challenged or driven to improve personally enough to want to pile on the difficulty after each success. Because if she did, she'd likely be less consistent 

To be honest Medvedeva skates a very (at least according to CoP) difficult program already. Loads of backloading, transitions into each jump, tanos and rippons galore. She mixes it up by adding even more difficult (again, according to CoP because it doesn't seem difficult for her) arm variations as the season progresses and this season she did try to backload more. True, she doesn't *always* get the highest TES, but it's always up there.

 

I think a lot of people find her stagnant to watch because her interpretation and especially her choreography isn't everyone's cup of tea. If she was doing quads then she would be interesting to watch on that front, but her choreography et. al. would have the same issues to the same people. And they weren't pushing the technical envelope much in the last 20 or so years either but there have still been some very beloved ladies champions who have come and gone.  

 

In fact you could say her backloading and tano'ing has changed...even pushed the ladies' field very much. Just look at not just the Russian skaters but every other young Japanese, Korean, and American skater adding arm variations and backloading. You didn't see that in the pre-Sochi era.

[SSS]

1 hour ago, MrPudding said:

 

but he has four pairs, isn't it..

[SSS]

5 hours ago, Anony said:

He was only 9 a few months ago 

edit by me

[MrPudding]

14 minutes ago, SSS said:

but he has four pairs, isn't it..

He's extra 

Still waiting for the black blades tho...

[Xen]

22 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

To be honest Medvedeva skates a very (at least according to CoP) difficult program already. Loads of backloading, transitions into each jump, tanos and rippons galore. She mixes it up by adding even more difficult (again, according to CoP because it doesn't seem difficult for her) arm variations as the season progresses and this season she did try to backload more. True, she doesn't *always* get the highest TES, but it's always up there.

 

I think a lot of people find her stagnant to watch because her interpretation and especially her choreography isn't everyone's cup of tea. If she was doing quads then she would be interesting to watch on that front, but her choreography et. al. would have the same issues to the same people. And they weren't pushing the technical envelope much in the last 20 or so years either but there have still been some very beloved ladies champions who have come and gone.  

 

In fact you could say her backloading and tano'ing has changed...even pushed the ladies' field very much. Just look at not just the Russian skaters but every other young Japanese, Korean, and American skater adding arm variations and backloading. You didn't see that in the pre-Sochi era.

I think other than what was stated, the other issue is just perception of men's skating and women's skating in general. Women's skating has not changed that much for years, but men's skating has been quad happy for a while, and is viewed as exciting due to how many quads just got added in the span of less than 2 years (Boyang's 4 Lz anyone? when before it was mostly 4S and 4T). For ladies, the game has always been about consistency and artistry, as the technical content overall just does not vary that much, and more ladies are remembered for their artistry than technical muscles (though they had to be consistent). So even though backloading is harder, because it's triples it's not viewed as that revolutionary. Whereas for the men, frankly the number of guys who wowed us artistically probably is just not that many-it's usually a game over the technical muscles.

 

So perhaps Janny is not that "impressive", versus say Yuna, Mao, Sasha Cohen or even Michelle Kwan, is because we normally expect more artistically from our ladies. This is something she'll probably improve on over the years.  While with the men, we've had lowered expectations on the artistic front for years, so when a more artistically inclined guy like Yuzuru can deliver the artistry with the solid technical content, we are more impressed.

[Floria]

They mean Chopin coreography video? It would be awesome!

[Floria]

 

[wombat-poodle]

1 hour ago, the50person said:

 

 

Well, it's not true but let NBC and other haters say what they want about consistency. Then Yuzu can surprise everyone all the more when he skates clean, but have less pressure on him. It's too much to expect him to go clean all the time. I don't want Yuzu to face that sort of hyper-scrutiny where every little mistake he makes is hung onto and made a big deal of all the time. Nobody makes a big deal with the other skaters' mistakes. Even though Shoma bombed JO, Nathan bombed Worlds 2017 and JO, and Javi bombed Worlds 2017 and GPF 2016. I think Yuzu should be treated the same.

[SSS]

To me, under COP, if correctly judged, even if Yuzu pops one jump or falls one time, he should still win those cleanish programs...so I think 4cc was robbed, and if skating order was different, score would be different. but I understand what you all saying and I understand the current "rule" is whoever clean(ish) who win...  I think this is also one of the reasons why we are all worried. It is possible for another WTT SP or ACI FS to happen...because of pressure and Yuzu's dramatic character...but whoever wins Yuzu this year, will get huge pressure at the first time  Hope nobody gets it  

[SSS]

5 minutes ago, wombat-poodle said:

 

Well, it's not true but let NBC and other haters say what they want about consistency. Then Yuzu can surprise everyone all the more when he skates clean, but have less pressure on him. It's too much to expect him to go clean all the time. I don't want Yuzu to face that sort of hyper-scrutiny where every little mistake he makes is hung onto and made a big deal of all the time. Nobody makes a big deal with the other skaters' mistakes. Even though Shoma bombed JO, Nathan bombed Worlds 2017 and JO, and Javi bombed Worlds 2017 and GPF 2016. I think Yuzu should be treated the same.

I hope Yuzu can do some clean(ish) programs which make all media happy and make himself "happy" 

[SSS]

11 minutes ago, Floria said:

 

"practiced landing 4lz many times and landed 4lo" !

 

Heading to new level

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

2 時間前, yuzuangelさんが言いました:

To be honest Medvedeva skates a very (at least according to CoP) difficult program already. Loads of backloading, transitions into each jump, tanos and rippons galore. She mixes it up by adding even more difficult (again, according to CoP because it doesn't seem difficult for her) arm variations as the season progresses and this season she did try to backload more. True, she doesn't always get the highest TES, but it's up there.

 

I think a lot of people find her stagnant to watch because her interpretation and especially her choreography isn't everyone's cup of tea. If she was doing quads then she would be interesting to watch on that front, but her choreography et. al. would have the same issues to the same people.

 

Yeah, I can agree with all that. That's why I said what she's doing isn't easy. But it still isn't the same thing as what the men are doing. Far from it. She works within her limits and expands within it, but I don't get a sense that she's pushing beyond it. See, people are comparing Hanyu's inconsistency to her consistency without taking into account that her tech advancements when compared  to Hanyu's, is ..well, there's no comparison really. Because he adds brand new elements, bringing one after another into competition each season, on *top* of all the bells and whistles he does but he doesn't abuse them because he doesn't need them to score more points, not when he can master new tech elements instead.

 

And people like Uno are more consistent, because he's not doing the little details in the same way Hanyu and Medvedeva do. He's doing some of them, but he's not yet quite in the same league as these two. So he has one but not the other, as does Medvedeva, only it's the other way around for her. Hanyu's the only one successfully pushing from all angles in the singles field. Even in spins and expression. Really, if one's standard of "pushing the envelope" is essentially what Hanyu is doing, then everyone else really simply pales in comparison.

 

He may not have the consistency because of that but if his pattern in past seasons is anything to go by, he'll bring it at least once during the season (re: devastating all-encompassing massive cannon beam if he brings it where it matters most in this one). I'm just hoping he brings it at the right time.

 

So I feel that being tired of gimmicks isn't exactly the same as finding her stagnant. I mean, it certainly contributes towards it but ultimately, I think it's because she isn't doing anything that very obviously reflects the monstrous scores she's been getting.

 

2 時間前, yuzuangelさんが言いました:

But basically no one is doing quads so it's not really fair to say that Evgenia isn't pushing the technical envelope. And they weren't doing quads 4 years ago, 8 years ago, or 12 years ago either but there have still been some very beloved ladies champions who have come and gone.  

 

In fact you could say her backloading and tano'ing has changed...even pushed the ladies' field very much. Just look at not just the Russian skaters but every other young Japanese, Korean, and American skater adding arm variations and backloading. You didn't see that in the pre-Sochi era.

 

By the logic I presented, in Medvedeva fashion, she does a lot of things in less obvious ways no other women can do (tacks on more doubles and triples and backloading them, among other things--what you said in your last paragraph, basically), though she's ultimately still doing 7 triples, which other ladies are doing as well, backloading or no backloading. I do feel the complaints that she doesn't have a 3lz3t in her arsenal (which would give her 8 triples--and wouldn't that be something at least?--but even she's got her weaknesses) isn't really legit since she does other things to make up for the lack. But that's it. She makes up for it. She isn't really going beyond it. She doesn't have anything that's more than a 3lz3t (which she doesn't have but others do) whereas there's a chance that Hanyu will one day bring either a 4lz3T himself (even if he completely passes on the 4F) or that something else that's been rumored to be in the works. And not just him, other men are adding big things, too. Medvedeva doesn't have anything like that and pretty soon, she'll max out on gimmicks (which people are already complaining about) and where else would she be able to head then?

 

Ultimately, she doesn't give off the image that she's straying too far outside her comfort zone and she's not really pushing the boundaries the way Hanyu is. She's only in it to score as high as she could based on what she can pull off and win as much as she could before someone with well-balanced skills finally comes in with more consistent 3As and maybe even some more landed quads in comps to finally overtake her.

 

Still, I do find the criticism of her being boring a tad unfair unless it's applied to others who aren't exactly pushing the envelope either, even the men's, cos not all of them are. Some of them are in the top 6, even. Not saying it's a bad thing that they're not. Like Medvedeva, it's great if they want to keep maximizing the potential of what they already have and if Hanyu misses the gold for whatever reason, I hope one of them clinches it. But if people are going to label her boring, then the same should apply to these other men as well. In fact, she does better than them because she's at least consistent.