Étudeesque

Anyone got the link to the Orser interview? Seems like it was great

You and me both

I really wonder what the state of Yuzuru's 4Lz is... Was it Max that said 60% awhile ago? I don't think that was in a layout though, so it could perhaps be very low when in a layout and one of the reasons why he is not thinking of putting it in. In some of his comments it sounds like he is not considering it at all and in other, like the one below, it seems more plausible (don't remember the source of the quote sorry!) Could the situation be that he is going the clean consistency route through the GP series and if that doesn't work he will train the 4Lz like crazy for Olympics? Can I ask what you guys think - isn't it risky going the clean consistency route since it may(?) result in peaking waaay too early? Kinda feels like the injury last year and late start almost helped Yuzuru peak at the right time. He has peaked quite often at GPF hasn't he? Though it is hard to say given his injuries 14-15 and 15-16... Sorry now I'm just babbling

I'm coming around to using Seimei again (it is great, and best of all, a truly creative program), slightly worried as always about the layout. While I didn't quite dare to believe that he was going to add a 4Lz the single 3A worries me a little... Also feels it should be kept in mind when counting quads amongst the competitors that, at least as far as I know, Uno, Chen and Jim are all doing two 3As. So Yuzuru is basically a 3A behind Uno and one quad + one 3A behind Chen and Jin. Since Uno is starting to get similar PCS and GOEs as Yuzuru it all worries me a bit. Chen and Jin both seem quite consistent with their jumps (though with easier layouts PCS-skill wise), but during Olympics PCS do seem to come a bit more easily (if clean especially). Jin does seem in clips to have improved his skating skills quite a bit though. Good for him, but Yuzuru's consistency plan worries me, since his mistakes seems less to do with difficulty and more with his mentality (focusing too hard on being prefect) - of course though a new jump would make it harder mentally as well. While the 4T-3T (rippon) looked great I don't think it would suit Chopin very well

Thank you so much! Was a bit worried I was going to be a bit blasted but people are so nice on here, even when I'm being pessimistic and worried I do actually feel a lot better now

Yeah, I hope you are right. I didn't think Seimei was very reactive actually, more Chopin (given his comments on SPs after Worlds and comments now) but nevertheless I have no real problem with him repeating both programs. Looking forward to new Chopin a lot actually. The reactionary part seemed to me be the 3A as a back up and 4TLo3S, given his earlier comments on always doing two 3As, I hope he didn't change his mind cause he felt pressured to add a quad simply for the reason of having another (if judges love the quads). Then again I find it hard to think Yuzuru would do anything else then he wants... so it is probably fine.

Fans are allowed to be critical and worried. It does not mean people are being entitled. It would be uncomfortable if people were just positive all the time. Blind love/hero-worship is really scary in fandom. I'm glad people here are allowed to love and worry and question, even Yuzuru's decisions. That does of course not mean people should be mean and pressure Yuzuru. I'm fine with him doing Seimei again (sure bit sad he is repeating two programs that he already to me has perfected), but a bit worried for his nerves with all the talk of 3A as a back-up and the 4TLo3S combo which seems more risk than it is worth. Then again, he and his team have surely thought this through and he is apparently in great shape and the layout is probably what he is most comfortable with.

I agree with this, though I slightly prefer H&L (that step sequence ). Seimei is great sure but H&L just felt like a development to me. Tiny BV addition. Since Yuzuru wants to win I get the clean program approach. If he is going for clean programs consistently then I would actually prefer he kept the same layout like last season. This change does not feel like any real commitment to development and honestly the 4TLo3S combo (even here) to me looks heavy and awkward. I doubt it will get similar GOE as the 3ALo3S combo nor fit as well into the program as a whole (sorry if I'm being harsh). Also if he makes a mistake and falls on some of the earlier quads I think it just becomes riskier - better with two 3A combos late in the program in such a case.

So pretty 3As

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit sad and very frustrated... Little bit cause he is repeating two programs, but mainly cause it all (reading his interviews and so) feels so reactionary. I don't like the 4TLo3S combo at all, it sticks out from his otherwise beautiful jumps and why??? To be able to have the 3A as a back-up? The BV change is so small and I honestly (sorry ) don't believe that the combo is ever going to get more than 2 GOE (probably just around 1). Sure some commentators will approve since everyone just seems to be counting quads these days () and ignore developments in construction of program and the skating quality in between jumps. Semei is a great program, better than anything the other guys have put out there but H&L was, at least to me, a great improvement in terms of Yuzuru's use of his skating skills. It was definitely more intricate (the step sequence, more steps overall and more steps later in the program), the construction/placement of elements was more difficult (and rewarding I think). This all seems like a step back, and sure it's the Olympic Season and I understand and support the decision to do something Yuzuru feels comfortable with so I can live with that. But I don't think we are going to see 4Lz (sorry again). He is not going to improvise and add a new jump unless he loses going almost clean before PC or for some other reason he feels he needs to change things (the reason is going to have to be pretty drastic - he is stubborn and adding a new jump is a huge step). He has never added a new jump on the fly has he? He is going to go for trying to go clean consistently and better his GOEs (didn't he imply as much at the beginning of the summer?). I don't think the 4TLo3S combo + having 3A as a backup is a good idea at all. If he makes a mistake and does the 3A, yes he can save points by doing it (BV) and doing it well (GOE) but any kind of mistake (pop/fall) is going to do real damage PCS wise. I'm sure he is not going to get more than 95 if he makes a mistake, so that's about 3-4 points lost as well. The combo is more risk prone. On a brighter side though, if he says he's comfortable with this layout he is probably already close to mastering it. So perhaps the plan is the best going forward. I can't help mourning the second 3A though and wish that he was doing something new (program/jump/music cut/*choreographic sequence/step sequence/anything). *I would actually love if he changed something in his choreographic sequence I really hope he reworks the step sequence so it more often gets a level 4. Honestly I'm a bit worried that Yuzuru is in such a mind space that he wants to have a 3A as a back up plan. I'm really starting to dislike the quad craze (not the quads themselves but the bonus that seems to go with) and Olympic Season. I want my pessimism to be wrong so feel free to disagree, sorry if I am being a bummer I just really like Yuzuru's skating and I get frustrated by the huge and singular focus in the sport on Olympics

Pretty cool how often Yuzuru got StepSequence4 and full GOE-credit. Must say I love H&L stepsequence Best execution of it perhaps? WTT?

Can't really understand why Yuzuru's 4S and 4T in the FS at Worlds didn't get +3GOE, same with his 4S3T at WTT - it was amazing. Also, the judges are way too focused on performance as a whole. I think if you make a mistake early they will be harsher on the rest of the elements, which obviously they should't be since that is not one of the rules - that you must go clean/nearly clean to get high GOEs Hopefully I'm overreacting/paranoid and wrong

I also included Worlds15 here beneath where you can see how he does steps + spins (in Worlds16 he does steps+jump) at the same moment in the music. I think it is interesting to compare:

Maybe I'm a bit harsh on the combination, I do love the turn he does at 2.20 with the music so. The entrance of the spin is absolutely beautiful, I completely agree . Thing is though with the first two spins especially, it is not that I think that he is not acknowledging the music - he is - but the rise in the 'theme' of the music, the building of intensity is, in my mind, not emphasized nearly enough. If you look at Worlds16, he is doing steps and transitions at this point and he increases the intensity of the steps first (1.41) and then he is increasing in speed, which matches the rising of intensity of the music. In Chopin 3.0 he exhibits the increasing intensity in the second spin by increasing the speed and also by doing a sit spin. Similar to in Chopin 2.0 the first spin is calmer (but in that program it is placed in a place where the music in kinda decreasing in intensity) and the second is put where it is building. This can work in Chopin 3.0 since the timing in music of the first spin is calmer, but it is still building which I think needs to be emphasized more. The second spin also needs some tweaking but it is very minor to just emphasize more as well, and looking at Yuzuru doing that spin in other programs I'm sure he will do just that. I just don't think the rise and fall of intensity works nearly as good as it does in Chopin 2.0 - right now. It is still early days though, and it is already a lot better

It was really nice to see it clean. Regarding choreo and transitions I'm sure he will add a lot of things (hasn't had time to work with Jeff yet right?), also the ice rink seems quite small to me? Which I'm sure makes it harder to do more transitions. Agree with the spin though, it still feels awkward to the music and honestly - unpopular opinion - but I'm not completely sold on the combination timing-wise. Yes it is absolutely beautiful with the landing of the second jump + arm movements to the music but leading up to it and when he takes off - I dunno but I don't really think it worked with the music. Hopefully though, it will get better I'm all for him doing Chopin again, I just don't want him to compromise on it artistically for the sake of getting the jump order to work... But this is Yuzuru and I think all his programs have been great when it comes to the connection between skating and music so I'm going to stay positive even though I find the program a bit jarring at this stage, probably due to it being very difficult not to compare it with Worlds16, GPF15 and NHK15, gotta have faith I guess. The 3A was beautiful! Hoping his spread-eagle-4Lo-spread-eagle will become at least as good as the one at worlds

Yep, the steps and choreography into the two first spins is much better - I don't doubt though that there will be more transitions and choreography for Chopin 3.0, it is still early days. Still a bit unsure what I think of the two first spins though in terms of timing, the second one works much better here with the music. The first though... I don't know. The entry into it is good but I don't think it really matches the music as well as Chopin 2.0 does in terms of the spins. The piano builds quite a lot and it isn't reflected. I'm liking the timing of the jumps here, it isn't matched perfectly in execution here but I can see what they are going for (and the same therefore goes for Chopin 3.0) but hopefully the middle part of the program will come to be more responsive to the music. Haha, I'm being very pedantic though - Yuzuru's programs are still generally some of the most well matched in terms of music and movement in my opinion. Also talking of Chopin 1.0, Yuzuru's 3A at Skate Canada 2015, a performance I suspect is a bit overlooked due to his mistakes in it is absolutely fantastic - it is huuuuuge and the lenght of the spread eagles

Also I don't know if anyone has linked it yet but here is the original Chopin with the layout that seems to be pretty close to Chopin 3.0? What do people think of it? Of course he falls here and does 3A as his first jump but it seems pretty similar to what he is planning...

While I can understand the benefits of adding the 4Lz to the short I just think it seems too risky for Yuzuru and his team. Doing a clean SP is important and his 4Lz still seems to be a work in progress. You lose so many marks when not going clean, look at Chen - obviously Yuzuru still gets high PCS marks when he falls (deservedly so given his transition-content and edge-work) but given how Worlds went I can understand that he prioritizes going clean. Clean Chen will get at least 103+ and Uno 104+. Doing 4Lz 4T3T // 3A (I have a really hard time believing he would do two new jumping elements in short - so no 4Lo-combo) if the 4Lz is not ready it could harm his PCS, if he falls consistently on the jump also as we have seen it is important to be skating later in the final group. Javier still won the SP at Worlds17 despite doing two "easier" quads so I don't really think they will hold Yuzuru down simply for doing a slightly easier combination - judges also knows as well as we that it is more difficult to do it in the second half. They want him to be consistent however. If he goes clean and does Chopin anywhere close to how well he can skate it I think there is a good chance that he will be first after the short. Of course the problem can be if the PCS gets "equalized" (without cause - I mean perhaps the others will come out next season with more transitions and one-foot-skating, who knows?) just to keep the competition interesting or due to national bias or due to judges not understanding what difficult transitions look like but even then Yuzuru can get the edge with his high quality jumps. Skating Chopin means he will have more time getting truly comfortable with it Honestly though I really wish difficult-jump bonus and consistency bonuses weren't a thing. Judges read the PCS rules instead please...

Yeah, the spins are quite awkward at the moment. Especially the first one since it really doesn't match the music, at least in my opinion (same with the transition between the spins). I think the whole program is a bit rough-around-the-edges if I'm honest. The rink seemed pretty small though and of course it is still only May so the program will probably be quite different in October. The timing of the 4T+3T shows great promise though, I did also like the exit from the 3A - but yeah bit rough still.

I don't mind that he is bringing back Chopin, sounds pretty interesting with a new layout. It is perhaps one of the most beautiful and artistic programs ever. Hoping he will not bring back Seimei as well though, it would be a bit dull and I don't think it will look great in the eyes of the judges. I'm not as pessimistic about the judges' attitude towards Yuzuru as some others, but I do think that they are too forgiving towards other skaters at times - like giving out high PCS for clean skates and not for great ones. Doing both Seimei and Chopin would be a bit much and would kinda send out a message of lost confidence, which I really don't hope Yuzuru is experiencing (I mean he won Worlds after all). Playing it safe to some extend I can understand - and can be a good and understandable strategy, but there can be too much 'safety-thinking' Also given his new layout his SP is not really "safe" to be fair, but repeating Seimei - if it is pretty similar music wise and layout-wise...I don't know it just gives me a bad feeling. Of course as a fan I would love new programs so I'm not unbiased, but I really don't think it would be a good idea for Yuzuru to repeat both programs, even if he adds 4Lz in the free. It is only a rumor though so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill

Pretty sure we won't see 4Lz in the SP. He brought 4Lo in both short and long last season to get consistent so the jump would be ready for 2017/18, Olympic Season. He seems pretty interested in the 4Lz though, there are reports that he is practicing the jump at Show practice so if it gets consistent enough sure I think there is a descent chance we will see it in the free. Since Uno and Chen are getting pretty consistent with their short programs (and Chen used to his layout) I don't think that Yuzuru should (or will) bring the 4Lz out in the short. He would lose too much on PCS and GOE. I think it is pretty clear that the judges value consistency over most things. They want a consistent reliable champion (saying that I do think Medvedeva has deserved to be first all season due to her huge amount of transitions and so on). If Yuzuru gets Chopin 3.0 in shape, it is still early days (I'm not loving the timing of the two spins, especially the former), I'm sure he will get a huge score. Thing is he will have to skate the program well, not simply clean which I'm pretty sure he has the capability to do. If he does, his transitions-filled and beautiful program (which I believe seeing the video Chopin 3.0 can become) will result in the judges awarding him big scores. I mean there was really nothing this season that was as great as Yuzuru's SP at Worlds16 - the judges didn't seem to think so, given how they gave Javier less points for his short at Worlds17. It is much more important to go clean in the short than long so I think repeating Chopin can be a good idea. Of course it will be more difficult getting the spread-eagle-4Lo as great as his 4S, but his 4Lo in the short at Worlds17 gives me hope.

I've got three favorites, and cannot order them so: - R&J1, is there any program as well-composed and with such a fantastic connection between the skating and the music? It is such an engaging program, successfully telling a story like no other I have ever seen. It is so dramatic and Yuzuru's skating is so expressive. The step sequence is sublime and the jumps, especially the 3Lz+2T, manages to become a part of the music and is not merely an element that occurs - H&L, the step sequence is one of the most beautiful expressions of skating ever. Especially the one he did at WTT actually, even if I love the Worlds17 as well. Beautiful music, great costume and Yuzuru does really make the music come alive with his skating. Beautiful edge-work throughout the program and the 4S is and 4S3T jumping passes are to die for, they are so amazing! The 4S3T at WTT seemed even bigger, if possible(?) than the Worlds17. Also I would strongly recommend watching the fan-cam version of Worlds17 and 4CC - it really shows of the effortless flow and speed Yuzuru skates with - Chopin, other people have written better comments of the program. I'm just going to say: the spread-eagle 4S (and the previous 3A) are just magical. Beautiful, effortless skating that makes the program float. Which is a great interpretation of the music piece in my opinion Yuzuru's skating is just simply:

Also... I don't think he will (nor should) 1) add a 4Lz in his short or 2) try to do both 4Lz and 4Lo3T. 1) Adding a new jump to the short is a huge risk, the reason Yuzuru did it this season was to stabilize the 4Lo for Olympic season. Having a new jump as such an important part of the short program will add a lot of pressure and Yuzuru, while he is a great competitor, is human and he does feel pressure (though he does seem to be more sensitive to pressure when he thinks the layout is something he should be able to do...). A mistake on the short is very costly, especially since the PCS gap between him and Shoma and Nathan in the short is pretty small. Yuzuru I believe if he nails all his elements in the short will probably still also get basically 49 in PCS. If the short is something he is more comfortable with, like he was with PW, I think his crazy transition-filled program will be rewarded. 2) Adding two new elements, which is basically what he is doing if he adds both 4Lz and 4Lo3T is a huge task. Physically as well as mentally. I think we forget that Yuzuru had not really done the 4S3T that much before this season. Doing both that new combo (for him) and the 4Lo, which are also both edge jumps, was a big adjustment I'm sure (and both in the short and free). The 4T has been so central for Yuzuru before this season. 2015/16 he talked of the mental block of doing the 4T3T in the second half, pretty sure that it was still a little bit of an obstacle this season (though now with the new 4S3T). Pretty sure he did those two new elements due to his injury and to get the milage for the upcoming season. I mean the combination of: doing a new combo + having to change it away from the musical climax + mental block that arose when he fell on it so much + another new element 4Lo which required a lot of concentration - I've got to say I'm very impressed with Yuzuru finally getting it all together at Worlds. I really like his 3A3T combos, it is just amazing :goe: so I gotta say I'm partial to layouts where he gets to do it. About keeping the 4S3T/repeating 4S: I'm optimistic that his troubles with it was mainly growing pains (a k a needing to get the milage) and mental block. I mean look at his beautiful single 4S jump now, who knew we would end up it when we were watching him during the 12/13 and 13/14 season? (and it being so consistent :bow: I'm not trying to challenge fate dear Skating Gods so plz don't do anything to change this).

Hello everyone, gotta say I love layout-talk :grin: The 4Lz with 4 quads FS layout with a BV of around 107 sounds like the best choice to me. It all depends on Yuzuru's 4Lz succession rate though. It is so hard to tell how the jump is going 1/9 at WTT is not great, though given the quite short set-up he seemed to be using(?) I wouldn't say it is bad either. There were also rumors of him having a 60% success rate with the jump at TCC, tight? It doesn't also guarantee that it will transition into a similar success rate when out in a program. Does anyone remeber the source of Yuzuru practicing (end even landing?) 4Lz in his run-throughs? I think it surfaced before 4CC, but I'm not sure. Yuzuru does seem to have great technique on the jump though, and like mentioned his set-up at WTT was basically the same as his 3Lz set-up. It was so very pretty in the air :goe: So that makes me hopeful. I think 4Lz would be a good idea in the free skate next season, the PCS gap will lessen between the top skaters no matter the actual improvement as long as they are clean/nearly clean at PC18... It annoys me, but it is what it is. 4Lz with 4 quads is also great since if anything goes wrong (falling on 4Lz, being behind due to a mistake in his SP or if a competitor really nails his program) he could change to 4TLo3S and 3A as last jump (such a high risk scenario though...). He does seem to seriously be thinking about 4TLo3S or 4SLo3T given his previous comments and WTT.

This looks adorable and made me laugh love her Yuzuru cartoons, does anyone have a translation - I think Yuzuru "older" and "younger" are discussing the 4A?