Japanese study group

[sister555]

So when you are with your friends, of course you can say,

今日はいい天気で気持ちがいいよね！！

 

But you can't say the above to your Sensei!!!

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, sister555 said:

So when you are with your friends, of course you can say,

今日はいい天気で気持ちがいいよね！！

 

But you can't say the above to your Sensei!!!

 

 Unless my Sensei is Yuzuru and doesn't want me to use polite form with him, right? Although, I know he is an exception 

 

Edit: I mean, I guess he is no one's "sensei" and more like a "sempai", but it works in a similar fashion, right? You address your sempai, usually, the same way you address your sensei, right? 

[surimi]

lol, 'Tarzan' about sums up my Japanese skills at their current stage. I'm still learning individual words to have a base for later sentence building, but at least I'm pleased to see my vocab is growing- slowly but neatly. I can haltingly read the hiragana now, with mistakes (ugh, I keep confusing 'sa' and 'chi' so much). I had to start adding mental drawings (which I'm planning to make real ones) to remember the katakana symbols. IDK why, but the katakana is taking me longer than the hiragana. No idea why I'm even writing that, maybe to show other newbies they're not the worst in this place... 

 

Also, joining sister555 - yes, @Hydroblade, please do share how many languages you actually speak! I confess I'm superimpressed at the Faroese. O_O

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, surimi said:

(ugh, I keep confusing 'sa' and 'chi' so much).

 

I still have to take a second each time to make sure I read them right. But this could also be related to other things. I've always had problems with left and right, and I need some time every time I have to tell someone to go left or right xD

[sister555]

3 分ぐらい, Murieleirum said:

 

 Unless my Sensei is Yuzuru and doesn't want me to use polite form with him, right? Although, I know he is an exception 

 

Eh, what situation are you imagining, may I ask???

 

 

3 分ぐらい, Murieleirum said:

 

Edit: I mean, I guess he is no one's "sensei" and more like a "sempai", but it works in a similar fashion, right? You address your sempai, usually, the same way you address your sensei, right? 

 

Hmm.  先輩 is a very subtle issue,  because especially in 体育系部活 (for example, baseball, basket ball), 先輩 and 後輩can be very friendly!  But I have a hunch even in sports, Japanese traditional ones (like Judo, Kendo, etc.) one honours 序列 of 先輩 and 後輩; in other words, they are very strict about hierarchy in traditional Japanese sports.

[Hydroblade]

1 hour ago, sister555 said:

 

Wait Hydro, how many languages can you handle?

 

Immersion?  Immerse yourself in Japanese?

Yes, that's what i mean by immersion  There are times when you can find me in my room, with japanese tv as background noise (that's why i have this ability to dig up streams i've been doing it since a long time ago!), writing and reading japanese, with my phone language set to japanese and all the interfaces that i can change the language set to japanese. And if i want to listen to music i listen to japanese music  That's the only thing i can do without actually going to japan 

 

And uuuuh... 

I've dabbled in a variety of languages:

• Spanish
• English
• Japanese
• Danish
• Italian
• Swedish
• German
• Faroese
• Irish
• Dutch
• And i've searched all over the place for a way to learn Mayan  i thought i would have luck since it's spoken here in Mexico but i haven't had any luck so far, and well... it's spoken literally only on the other side of my country. So i guess that unless i travel to the region, there's no way i can get books to study it...

I am basically a language hoarding dragon i REALLY like learning languages, it's like solving a puzzle and you learn so much about other cultures, not to mention how it opens the world to you, since you become able to get information in a variety of languages  and because i like learning that means i can learn about a variety of things no matter the language that's being used  

 

Regarding slang, one thing i picked up from twitter was おはにゅうございます I struggle a lot not to use it when i greet my classmates! (But sounds really cute)

And i've picked a lot of slang words, but i am 100% aware that they shouldn't be used in a formal context  

[Murieleirum]

39 minutes ago, sister555 said:

Eh, what situation are you imagining, may I ask???

 

 

A non-realistic one, unfortunately  I just thought about how he said during interviews that there isn't much hierarchy among Japanese figure skaters, and he encourages everyone to come talk to him, so he is very friendly with everyone - maybe that also has to do with the fact that he trains in Canada, and when talking in English, you really don't have much difference between colloquial and formal.

 

I've always wondered how Japanese people settle with that. English doesn't allow for a wide differentiation of whom you're talking to. 

[sister555]

16 分ぐらい, Hydroblade said:

Yes, that's what i mean by immersion  There are times when you can find me in my room, with japanese tv as background noise (that's why i have this ability to dig up streams i've been doing it since a long time ago!), writing and reading japanese, with my phone language set to japanese and all the interfaces that i can change the language set to japanese. And if i want to listen to music i listen to japanese music  That's the only thing i can do without actually going to japan 

 

And uuuuh... 

I've dabbled in a variety of languages:

• Spanish
• English
• Japanese
• Danish
• Italian
• Swedish
• German
• Faroese
• Irish
• Dutch
• And i've searched all over the place for a way to learn Mayan  i thought i would have luck since it's spoken here in Mexico but i haven't had any luck so far, and well... it's spoken literally only on the other side of my country. So i guess that unless i travel to the region, there's no way i can get books to study it...

I am basically a language hoarding dragon i REALLY like learning languages, it's like solving a puzzle and you learn so much about other cultures, not to mention how it opens the world to you, since you become able to get information in a variety of languages  and because i like learning that means i can learn about a variety of things no matter the language that's being used  

 

Regarding slang, one thing i picked up from twitter was おはにゅうございます I struggle a lot not to use it when i greet my classmates! (But sounds really cute)

And i've picked a lot of slang words, but i am 100% aware that they shouldn't be used in a formal context  

 

Yeah, SOME Yuzu fans use おはにゅう、おはにゅうございます、or even はにゅう!

But mind you , another some Yuzu fans don't like these jargons and think using these are childish!

[Hydroblade]

Just now, sister555 said:

using these are so childish!

I agree  it does sound like something a child would say but it sounds so cute!  I haven't seen it used that much either, but the first time i read it i went "awwwww"  

Although using just はにゅう...  i find it a bit weird haha.

[sister555]

4 分ぐらい, Murieleirum said:

 

A non-realistic one, unfortunately  I just thought about how he said during interviews that there isn't much hierarchy among Japanese figure skaters, and he encourages everyone to come talk to him, so he is very friendly with everyone 

 

なんだつまらんｗｗ

もっとロマンチックな想像してたのに！！ｗｗｗ

 

Quote

 

I've always wondered how Japanese people settle with that. English doesn't allow for a wide differentiation of whom you're talking to. 

 

Practice makes perfect ...

 

But even in English, sometimes you have to think whom you are talking to:

For example, can you say

"Hiya!  Nice weather!  Fancy a glass of beer?"

in a job interview???

[Hydroblade]

2 minutes ago, sister555 said:

なんだつまらんｗｗ

もっとロマンチックな想像してたのに！！ｗｗｗ

2 minutes ago, sister555 said:

Practice makes perfect ...

I have a bit of an advantage here, since spanish has tú vs. usted so we have at least two "levels" of politeness... The language isn't different but the words you use and the way the verbs are conjugated reflect the politeness level... One for people close to you, same age or same uh, hierarchical level (tú) and one for superiors, people you don't know and some people use it for their parents (usted).

[Murieleirum]

8 minutes ago, sister555 said:

なんだつまらんｗｗ

もっとロマンチックな想像してたのに！！ｗｗｗ

 

My imagination escapes my control too often!  (This was too hard a phrase for me to try and write it in japanese  ごめんなさい！)

 

6 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

I have a bit of an advantage here, since spanish has tú vs. usted so we have at least two "levels" of politeness... The language isn't different but the words you use and the way the verbs are conjugated reflect the politeness level... One for people close to you, same age or same uh, hierarchical level (tú) and one for superiors, people you don't know and some people use it for their parents (usted).

 

Really? Wow, we have the same thing in Italy too, but no one would dream about using our 'usted' ('lei') with our parents It was done in the 1700 up until the early 1900's I think. 

 

In Italy, you can choose whether you want to use it or not. What I do most of the times, for example - I'll go with the polite 'lei' if I'm speaking with an older person who I don't know, like a job interviewer, or a new teacher, or colleague. But only if they have, like, more than 10 years more than me. If they are visibly much older, I'll go with the polite form. But after the first meeting, I will ask to change to 'tu' right away. 

 

Truth is... I can't stand polite form  I want to be familiar with everyone right away! 

[sister555]

9 分ぐらい, Hydroblade said:

I have a bit of an advantage here, since spanish has tú vs. usted so we have at least two "levels" of politeness... The language isn't different but the words you use and the way the verbs are conjugated reflect the politeness level... One for people close to you, same age or same uh, hierarchical level (tú) and one for superiors, people you don't know and some people use it for their parents (usted).

 

Yes, yes, it existed in English in ooooooooold days, but luckily it disappeared!!

 

These kinds of distinction also exists in other Indo-European languages, such as German, Italian, or French.

 

And I'm just wondering... Hydro, if you are such a language learning addict, how come you didn't try to learn the King of 格変化 ("decline")  in major languages, Russian?  (Greek may be more complex, but it isn't so popular...)

[sister555]

That's interesting.  I heard of the word "duzen" in German.

In grammar, one should use Sie for a person who is not your family.

 

But in colleges or high schools, you want to call your friend more "friendly".

So someone would say, "Let's duzen".

 

Duzen means using Du to a person who is familiar with you, although s(he) is not your akin.

 

*They use "du" to families, pets, or God.

 

Ref. http://www.lang.osaka-u.ac.jp/~tsuda/kouza/kouza03.html

 

And youngsters use "Du" (beginning with capital D) to their friends.

 

Ref. http://www.newsdigest.de/newsde/archive/germans/132-9.html

(This article is kind of a must-read, it's very interesting!!)

 

Do you have similar examples in other European languages??

[Hydroblade]

1 minute ago, Murieleirum said:

Really? Wow, we have the same thing in Italy too, but no one would dream about using our 'usted' ('lei') with our parents It was done in the 1700 up until the early 1900's I think. 

 

In Italy, you can choose whether you want to use it or not. What I do most of the times, for example - I'll go with the polite 'lei' if I'm speaking with an older person who I don't know, like a job interviewer, or a new teacher, or colleague. But only if they have, like, more than 10 years more than me. If they are visibly much older, I'll go with the polite form. But after the first meeting, I will ask to change to 'tu' right away. 

 

Truth is... I can't stand polite form  I want to be familiar with everyone right away! 

Well, italian is really similar to spanish, both are romance languages and they sound so similar it's irritating to me  in duolingo i got the first part of the tree completely covered by the placement test. That's how similar they are. 

 

Here in Mexico i guess it's a cultural thing  probably related to our colonial past haha. The divisions are clearly marked.

9 minutes ago, sister555 said:

 

Yes, yes, it existed in English in ooooooooold days, but luckily it disappeared!!

 

These kinds of distinction also exists in other Indo-European languages, such as German, Italian, or French.

 

And I'm just wondering... Hydro, if you are such a language learning addict, how come you didn't try to learn the King of 格変化 ("decline")  in major languages, Russian?  (Greek may be more complex, but it isn't so popular...)

Russian is on my list of languages i want to learn. So is icelandic :D Oh and i forgot to add Finnish to the list of languages i know to some extent :D