meoima

Wasn't that what he wore for Olympic silver in the battle of the Brian's? Surely Y would think it was bad luck ?

Maybe he should troll Brian Orser with a costume like this? ;)

You know this is what I saw Yuzuru wore in my dream of Olympic 2018.

Takeshi Honda often says that jumps with speed and distance is more difficult than higher jumps because the former has more momentum going into the jump than the latter and the momentum makes it difficult to maintain your axis (I guess it pulls you backwards…not sure though.) The jumps of Gabby and Midori look very high and wild sometimes but they also have speed and distance, aren’t they? I saw Gabby’s 3T-3T in WTT and it was huge in terms of distance too. It almost covered the length of the short side of the rink, like Han Yan’s 3A. I think whether you can maintain the tight axis or not is more crucial than whether your jump is high or not.

(I edited the "tight air position" to "tight axis" because it was a mistake.

Oh no that one was correct, I thought you were asking whether small jumps are harder to control than higher jumps.

Though I would also argue even if that is the general understanding, it is not always the case. I'd say Mao's jumps are pretty high but sometimes does not really have the distance but some other skaters who has more distance than height (like Satoko) would be much better and more consistent to control their axis, so it is not only dependent on height and distance when you are talking about the ability of a skater to maintain their axis. I think generally, when comparing between 2 huge jumps, those who have more distance would have the tendency to go off-axis more than those who jump high but barely travels.

Height is the defining factor of a successful quad as long as they're not the Axel. All Yuzuru's quads are all very high. That's why when you don't get enough height, you have to cheat like *someone* and land with bad body alignment.

But one more thing, the speed going into the jumps has effect on the distance of the jumps. Mao's jumps have ok height but not the distance and she often UR because she slowed down a lot before her jumps. Yuna's jumps have good distance because she throw herself into the jumps. For Satoko, it's easier to land her jumps when they're 30 cm above the ice.

The point is, Quad Axel is not some normal quads. It's not the kind you get enough height and you get it done. Some skaters can slow down before usual quads like 4T and still get the 4T done. But 4A? You need both crazy height and insane speed.

(That's why I laugh at people saying Shoma can get the 4A. Please... he doesn't get enough height for normal quads and have to rotate almost one revolution on ice...)

On the other side, I think his body type may help him to save his landings too, as he has a low barycenter and that "soft knee" that allows him to jerk his body in position after the landing. I've heard/read something about this somewhere.

Is having long limbs (like Yuzu or Boyang, who has grown quite tall) an advantage when jumping? I think it requires more control and awareness, so I wouldn't say Shoma's is much at disadvantage, apart from the ability to spin fast. His legs looks very strong, very muscular, so that should grant him a lot of "power" for his jumps. Correct me if I am wrong, I'm still a newbie here :yes:

Yes. Shoma's short legs (and low center of gravity) are the main reason that helped save his landing with VERY bad body alignment. You will never see Yuzuru, Nathan or Boyang having that kind of landings because their bodies could not afford that. Their long limbs might be tangled right away. However, bad body alignment is bad body alignment and it will leave bad consequence.

As a fascinating discussion started in the Layout thread, we've decided to move all the relevant posts here, so as to facilitate the discussion on jumps, their landings, etc when it comes to all the skaters that might peak your interest, and not just Yuzuru. 

Thank you @Fresca , and everyone, for the fascinating discussion and hopefully it'll continue!

Edit by Yatagarasu

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OmNom said:

As much as I'm not fond of Nathan's wobbly landings, he does have amazing edges on both the flip and lutz (which I don't see very often so that's got to be very difficult)

And once again I'm reminded of Boyang's amazing height on his lutz. he has airtime to spare before his landing foot even touches the ice! no wonder it always looks like he's flying when his lutz is in full mode

Nathan's wobbly landings (and even Boyang's wobbly landings too) are due to bad body alignment. They are small and they rotate very fast but they do not control their speed and power in the landing enough. In short, less control if you compare to Yuzuru, Patrick, Javi's landings when they do well.

Boyang and Nathan, nevertheless, have true Lutz, while Shoma does not.

Interesting. Higher jump will give you more time to control your momentum and land safely on one feet, maybe?

Skaters either jump very high (like many skaters in the past like Plushenko, Petrenko...) or very far Yuna Kim.

If you look at some old-fashioned skaters like like Voronov or Gachinski, they still jump high like in the old day. Look at his 3A here:

Jumping high is talked to help you maintain your axis very well. So if you want to stay straight in the air and not off-axis, jumping high might help. Maybe that's why Plushenko rarely messed up because he jumped high, not too far on the ice though. Nathan also jumps high, but the distance is not impressive.

However, when you jump that high, you have to cut the distance. Their jumps might be high, but the distance might be less than some later generation like Patrick, Yuzuru, Han Yan. These guys jump very far across the ice.

Patrick, Yuzuru have both the height and the distance in their jumps (Javi only has height and distance in the quads, his triples are meh). Especially, Yuzuru, he can jump higher 3A or longer 3A if he wants to. The 3A we are seeing Yuzuru doing today are not the best 3A he can do. Because all of his 3A now are performed in the second half of the program, out of difficult transitions and in combo. And those 3A of Yuzuru are already huge.

If you want a huge 3A from the beginning, without difficult transitions, with crazy height and distance, certainly Yuzuru can do it. He just does not do it. So I have no doubt he can even perform bigger 3A than he is doing now.

I have just seen this on Twitter, a quick lesson to compare what is a true Lutz and what is a Flutz:

I feel bad for Nathan and Boyang...

Don't worry guys... he won't do a quint since (as Yuzuru has stated) ISU doesn't have a scoring for it... yet...

But the fact that he has researched about it makes me worried. hahaha...

Well with Oda talking about the Chinese guys possibly landing quints ... yeah, good luck to us all after the Olympics are over.

The only Chinese guy who can do quint is Boyang and there is no news about that. And the reality is most skaters struggle to get 3.75 rotation on air, how can get they 4.75 rotation on air to get a quint. Unless they want to try 4.25 rotation on air and get it called a quint by some very very low standard.

I support Kimi no Na wa music :goe:

Then Studio Ghibli would also have music for him... [link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArsV7AFZBHY]Dragon Boy[/link] from Spirited Away has enough impact in my opinion (Hisaishi Joe again :pbow: )

Or Summer Wars OST, Yuzu mentioned before that he likes the movie.

All 3 have similar melodies, so can be mixed.

Olympic season. He won't choose some anime music.

^it's just too dangerous of a jump. I only wish to see it one day even just in practice.

I hope Mirai will be able to go to Olympic! I rewatched her performances at Vancouver and she was so good then. I hope to see her sparkle again.

This is like the 5-6th years of knowing Yuzuru, he surely will upgrade layout. Who knows maybe he will do 4A lol...

One of my favourites is this one:

 

Yuzuru Hanyu - 羽生結弦 - You will be king again

 

I watched it quite often before WC 2017.

 

(I hope the link works. It's my first time to post a link)

Khoai will be happy. He spent so much time for that video. :love:

I still couldn't forgive Yuzuru for that boobskirt at Olympic...

I agree that he didn't put much thought into these particular cases, and he also doesn't look like he's crazy about choreographing as much as someone like Misha for example. But for some people the knack/natural gift comes naturally and they don't need to spend hours on hours to come up with something good. I just don't see it in Yuzu :s_dunno

I don't want to say this but most good choreographers I have seen are either ex-ice dancers like David Wilson, Lori, Kenji, Averburk, Peter Chev... (they're dancers of course they have good sense when it comes to choreography) or ex-skaters who did not have good jumps (Rohene, then Jeff for example, he was an amazing skater but his jumps...).

Great technician skaters (like Plushenko, or mama Orser) never become good choreographer. And actually they never seem to be interested in choreography

Thank you so much. I love fancams and fan reports. We can get the bigger picture from all of these. Please help me to update other fancams of various competitions as you find them.

I am glad that we have the analysis video to counter attack those in the FS world who do not care to do any research and dare say that "Hanyu's programs are empty". Now every time I see such stupid comments, I reply them with the video that Gladi, Fay and others did. I am so glad you guys did it.

anyanee said:

meoima said:

Yuzuru's choreography for team Japan was horrible. No choice of Yuzuru being a choreographer.

He can be a technical specialist. Bless those who might get called though...

Do you think he will be Shin Amano 2 ??  

Shin Amano will never be as strict as Yuzuru if Yuzuru wants to become a tech specialist.

But honestly, a successful skater like Yuzuru can do shows for 10-15 years and care nothing about ISU test lol. The chance of Yuzuru working for ISU is technically Zero. They do not have enough money to pay him. Unless he wants to do it for the sake of skating.

Video collection of Yuzuru's exhibition programs:

WTT 2017 gala, Notte stellata (The Swan):

WTT 2017 gala, team Japan PPAP:

WC 2017 trying out 4-4 and failed and be embarrassed: https://youtu.be/bhbVxJraOdA

GPF 2016 gala, Notte stellata (The Swan):

WC 2016 gala, Requiem of Heaven and Earth:

WC 2016 gala, fancam:

WTT 2015 ex, Parisienne Walkways:

FAOI 2015, Believe:

FAOI 2015, Hello I love you:

FAOI 2015, Vertigo:

NHK 2014 gala, Hana wa Saku

FAOI 2014, The Final Time Traveler:

FAOI 2014, Ienai Yo

Together on ice 2015, Change:

World 2014 gala, Romeo 1.0

Sochi 2014 Olympic ex, White Legend:

GPF 2013 EX, Story:

TEB 2013 EX, Notre-Dame de Paris

Nagoya Festival 2013, Hana ni Nare

AOI 2013, True Love

Worlds 2012 exhibition, White Legend:

Japan Super Challenge 2012, Romeo 1.0:

GPF 2011 Ex, Somebody to love:

4CC 2011 gala, Vertigo

Japan Medalist on ice 2011, White Legend:

Cup of Russia 2010 EX, Somebody to love:

Another link:

Encore at Cup of Russia 2010 ex:

Osaka ex 2010, Vertigo:

JGPF 2009 gala, Change:

Carnival on ice 2008, Amazonic: http://dai.ly/x25emi6

Japan Medalists on ice gala 2008 gala, Change:

Xmas 2008 Sendai:

Japan Medalists on ice 2007 gala, Sing Sing Sing

Another video

Yuzuru's choreography for team Japan was horrible. No choice of Yuzuru being a choreographer.

He can be a technical specialist. Bless those who might get called though...

Dara said:

meoima said:

Shae? Do we have any news about Shae?

Scheduled to do Radionova's LP May 2-7.

Ok so Jeff is doing SOI, DW is busy for Marin, Shae is busy for Radionova. That leaves a possibility, Yuzuru is still choosing music and he has not decided yet. 

Or he already has choreography done  

I think he insists on 4S3T in the second half of his LP because he will replace 4S in the first half by another quad.

I have the feeling he is having a headache right with program musics.

Jeff is on SOI tour, so no choreography with Jeff. David Wilson is doing choreography for Marin Honda. So no DW either.

Shae? Do we have any news about Shae?

Yuzuru would look stunning even with just Patrick's style...

I have said this many times, even if he skates to something people have skated to 1000 times, as long as he wins, it doesn't matter. I am fine with all.

But I know he will have some great choices. In my dream, he skates to an explosive program like Romeo 1.0

I think he wants to bring that fire back.

^thank you so much for helping out. I have updated the posts. Yuzuru has said so many wonderful things. What a pity There wre too much lost in the mud.