KatjaThera

15 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

New clear files!

 

 

 

 

The tweet was deleted it seems, but here's the lotte link: http://img.lotte-shop.jp/hacf1910.html

The hair is still a bit... but loving the casual wear ones! (Just for being casual wear, if I look too closely at what he's wearing... lol)

Slightly but not really OT, seems Toshi is releasing a second cover album and it will include Zankoku na tenshi, Mannatsu no Yoru no Yume, FaOI versions of Masquerade and Crystal Memories as well as some other awesome covers (Nagori Yuki - Toshi did a cover of this some 25 years ago and I adore it - Bohemian Rhapsody, AI's Story etc.). It's kind of funny for me, because when the first album came out, I was very but after hearing several of the covers at FaOI, I'm not really excited about this one! Trailer of Zankoku na tenshi:

Btw, it's Toshi's birthday today *wonders if Yuzu might work his magic and have some sweets sent to him again lol*

5 hours ago, andchipzz said:

OT but is there any western media that talk about Yuzu's injury in 2016? 

As far as I know, there is none. IIRC, before Worlds, the injury was mentioned as a small thing that was healed over the early period of 2016, so as far as anyone new, Yuzu was 100% healthy in Boston. It was only some time after that that JSF released the information on the lisfranc injury and only in Japanese media. Western media I think rarely picks up stuff like that. And even then, it wasn't until the beginning of the following season, when Yuzu spoke about it in Ice Jewels that anyone knew just how bad it had been. I only became a fan in December of 2016, but I remember reading threads of that period and it was just total silence after the first announcements, saying what the injury was and that Yuzu was receiving treatment in Toronto. There were video messages at FaOI, but no info and no sighting until 24H TV, I think... Western media never knew of any of it, I think, just like they know nothing of a lot of other of Yuzu's hardships (like the surgery complications, as well as what came before it, for example).

44 minutes ago, sweetwater said:

I don't think @Murieleirum is labeling fans at ACI this year as stalkers and such. Isn't she just pointing out the danger in justifying what we do as a sign of emotional involvement or emotional investment? And I don't think "who can afford it" means who is rich either... There must be die-hard fans outside of arenas as well, among those who can't afford to go to each competition, no? because of having no time or having difficult situations? I am not a native English speaker so I am not 100 percent confident, though.

Personally, I think I have less of an issue with what she's saying than I do with the way she is saying. It's just piling everyone together. I am sure stalkers do justify their actions similarly. But does that mean that our actions are the same and deserve to be compared? I might scream in excitement at seeing an amazing costume on a skater I love. I will not chase after his car or stalk him to his home, or yell out my feelings. I agree there need to be boundaries, but we're not really discussing those boundaries. It's all about the screaming at ACI and how disturbing or not that was. To me, it's not on the same level as some other fan actions. I would probably prefer it not to be quite so wild and maybe if I had just watched it on TV, I might have cringed. But I still wouldn't compare it to the stalking, especially when there are fans explaining why they themselves reacted as they did, with actual arguments, not just "he was so hot, I couldn't help it!" We couldn't help it, yes, but for different reasons. For that alone, I would give at least SOME of the audience the benefit of doubt. Or at least I like to think I would.

As for "who can afford it", I think she might actually mean that ACI is a more affordable event, so even fans who don't usually get to go to competitions and see Yuzu can go, so they might be less familiar with skating etiquette and more excited to see him than the more seasoned crowd. Which, fair enough, though last year ACI was my first ever competition and most 'skating etiquette' is just good old common sense. But if so, say it like this. I'm not a native English speaker either (though I have been learning English since I was 6, so I guess I might be closer than some others), and I can be very bad at expressing myself, too, but on a forum, words are all we really have to communicate with and it's up to each of us to try to avoid misunderstandings.

And as a bottom line, I actually think we SHOULD discuss proper and improper fan behavior. I know some fans frown at the idea of fans policing fans, but truth is, if we don't, behavior we all find abhorrent will never go away. Like stalking. I'm sure we all agree stalking is bad. But what exactly does stalking imply? And some fans might genuinely not realize why what they're doing is bad. I'm thinking we could maybe make a thread and suggest 'behavior rules for Yuzu fans', with arguments. Why we should do some things and not do other things. When and where and how should we exercise more self-control? Then make a list of those generally agreed upon, and pros/cons lists for those that get debated. I'd be willing to open such a thread, but I'm not sure I would have enough time to properly handle it...

5 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

You only mentioned your own emotions in justifying the mass behavior that happened at ACI, and of course you are, that's exactly what happens - fans get overwhelmed with emotions and do not think about other people. It happens when they run after Yuzuru's car, it happens when they (any skater's fans) steal other people's seats, etc. etc. Who decides where the line is? Between what is acceptable and what is not? I wish Yuzuru could speak out more explicitey about this and say it bluntly when he thinks fans are exaggerating, but I feel like he kinda did when he said "I am grateful for my fans for letting me concentrate", which from Japanese to English means "I hope my fans will respect other skater's concentration and my own when cheering for me". 

 

The context is everything. Again, you only spoke about what I felt, but I am asking you to think about how others might have felt: Yuzuru himself, other skaters.

 

Plus, you said something that is upsetting: it's not the diehard fans who go to non-ISU competitions like ACI. It's the fans who can afford it. Big difference.

 

For example, I was lucky enough to win a ticket for Saitama and be in Japan during the WC of 2019, so I went and I cheered. When Nathan's score was announced, I felt like booing. I was so disappointed. Booing at the judges of course, not at poor Nathan who did a great job. But I couldn't, because I had to think about other people's (Nathan's) feelings. And booing is not the same as cheering, but... come on, I don't have to repeat myself. Yuzuru has been recently, in more than one competition, visibly irritated by some behaviors that went over the line.

 

One other thing, in Helsinki 2017 during the winning ceremony, there was an Italian lady screaming "Yuzuru! Look over here! I love you!" again and again and the desperation that I could hear in her voice was just a little... well, no. That is not the kind of support that Yuzuru needs, that is just obsession and do you really think Yuzuru doesn't feel the difference?

 

I know it's annoying and you don't wanna hear it, but... this is just what I think at the end of the day. You are free to disagree and I don't want you to be ashamed, I just want people to think a little bit more about context.

Honestly, as someone who screamed at ACI, I feel offended to have that be equaled with running after Yuzu's car, stealing seats, or loudly screaming "Look at me, I love you!" You're generalizing, by assuming people who screamed at ACI are the types of people who do those things. I'd says it's very easy to judge without having been there and to me it's the same kind of judging like that Seimei cosplaying girl at Rostelecom 2017 suffered: people saw her crying and assumed she was crying because Yuzu lost. You saw/heard people screaming at ACI more than usual and assumed they're all misbehaving fans. There were circumstances which amplified the reaction. It doesn't mean everyone suddenly stopped acknowledging Yuzu as a talented double Olympic Champion and just saw a sexy guy that made their ovaries explode. To me, at least, the lines are generally very clear. Was ACI an overreaction? Maybe, and I've admitted this before. Was it understandable? Yes, I believe it was. Will everyone agree on that? Of course not. Different people have different temperaments. Maybe some of them would never lose their composure like that. I didn't last year, but did this year. Maybe my threshold is high, but this year it wasn't high enough. I don't know. What I do know is that I cannot agree that the screaming at ACI is as bad as the other examples of bad behavior you gave and I resent the comparison.

I also felt the urge to boo at ACI, but I did not. Because Yuzu would not appreciate it. But the total silence as the technical controller and who else extended greetings to the athletes was telling.

I also think you really need to get over the notion that affordability means anything. That's a sort of elitist mindframe, like richer people would never stoop to act as badly as the poor people do, that I cannot believe still exists in this day and age. You can be absolutely sure that those screaming included both rich and not so rich people. Although admittedly, I did not inquire about the income of any of the fans I've met at ACI. I am probably the poorest of them, but then again, it was also my first time screaming like that. So not sure what exactly that is supposed to say about me...

I think bad fan behavior needs to be discussed. Stalking, in any shape or form - to me, chasing after his car is a form of stalking - needs to be pointed out and discouraged, rather than swept under the rug. But IMO, there were worse things happening at ACI than the screaming. The screaming was a genuine, honest reaction, and it was ALL about Yuzu, not getting his attention, at least from where I stood. If there were other instances of something else, like competitions between fans, to outscream each other, then, yes, that I disagree with. But in that case, I'd rather those cases be singled out, rather than just going after EVERYONE who screamed, because that's just not fair to those for whom it was a genuine and perhaps not entirely voluntary reaction.

And we know Yuzu is a fan of cheering and screaming himself, so I don't think he'd want people holding back on genuine reactions, as long as they don't get too over the top.

As for concentration, I think it's good for athletes to experience stressful situations, too. As long as nobody is screaming with the purpose to disturb, timing the screams to jumps, it should be good practice, to learn to block it out. Even if it's done with the purpose to disturb, it's good practice. An athlete who can master the art of ignoring those who try to intentionally destroy his focus will be unbeatable. But that was not the case and I honestly doubt any of the other skaters minded it much. If anything, it meant the attention was not on them. As for Yuzu, I've already been there, so I won't repeat myself. Only he knows how much he minded it or not.

Either way, I doubt it set the standard for future competitions, so we are probably over-analyzing.

Actually, it was later discovered that Yuzu sort of appeared in YOI himself. There's a shot where a character is holding a magazine that looks a lot like an anime version of LGC Yuzu. So one can argue that, like Stephane and Nobu, who appeared as themselves, Yuzu also exists as himself in YOI (only I guess he's competing in a different dimension lol as he should, since he's on a different level from everyone else )

Yuri is not based on Yuzu. They have very little in common and what they do have in common, so do many other real life skaters. I admit after watching Yuri on Ice and before knowing anything about Yuzu, I thought the same, but it really only takes a few minutes to realize they have nothing in common. Every character in Yuri on Ice borrows traits from real life skaters, but generally they're mixed together, creating brand new characters. So you might recognizes bits and pieces of real life skaters in YOI characters, but that doesn't mean they are based on those skaters. I don't think anyone in Japan would really do that. And with Kenji involved in it and supposedly sharing bits of information, too, it's even less likely they'd make any one character based on real life people.

I do wish YOI fans would do a little research before commenting, because, honestly, I am not embarrassed that I ever even wondered whether Yuri might be based on Yuzu - though in some ways, it's natural to wonder, given that Yuzu is the most popular skater. If anything, I'd say Yuri is based on male Japanese skaters ASIDE from Yuzu, given the struggles he has to be competitive, something that Yuzu never had, and that's a reality that was there, before Takahashi and then Yuzu and Shoma, but mostly Yuzu, took male Japanese figure skating to the very top. It really takes only a little bit of research to learn that.

But I do agree, YOI is a good opening to get into figure skating. As long as you don't take it too seriously... quads are made to look ridiculously easy there. Yuri doing a perfect 4Lz at the end of his program when he'd never landed it before (IIRC) is ridiculous, for example.

(Personally, I think I rather see Yuri Plisetsky - ignoring his rudeness, which is so very not Yuzu - as based on Yuzu. The young prodigy who breaks barriers and sets new standards in the sport. But then Victor has shades of Yuzu, too, and even JJ has shades of Yuzu, but with each of them, there are other things you need to ignore to see the similarities.)

He was only talking about the protocol itself in the beginning. The interviewer gave it to him and said something like "You probably don't want to look at it, but..." and Yuzu said "I don't want to look at it". He did say that both toeloops (I guess he meant the quads) getting UR calls hurts - though if he also said that as far as he's concerned they were clean, they cut that part out. He did acknowledge the mistakes on the loop and salchow and said he wants to land those properly. I think he also said that he wants to do his layout cleanly, before advancing to a more difficult one, but there was a but and then I didn't really understand. I think he maybe meant that having more jumps in his arsenal gives him the possibility to change the layout if something doesn't work so well and something else works better, and I think that's when the stock question came up. I interpreted it as the interviewer asked him about his stock of possible layouts and Yuzu refused to give out any details, hence the "various" answer. But I have no idea if this is correct.

He sounds calm and confident, actually, although the way he keeps saying that Worlds taught him that he can't win with just GOE always hurts to hear. He seems calm about it, though, like it's a conclusion he's accepted by now and is working on moving past it. The 4A talk is the same as before. He confirms he can rotate, but says he hasn't landed it yet. There's the talk about needing 90% of his physical strength just to rotate at this point, so he needs to increase that to also be able to land it. He says landing will be a whole new challenge and he'll only know how difficult it will be when he starts on it, but at the same time he feels like he should be able to land it.
 

Overall, he sounds more positive to me than he did in 2017 (I never mentioned it then, but his interviews around and after ACI and around and after Rostelecom in 2017 creeped me out, there seemed to me to be a sort of dark mood around him). Not counting last year, because last year he was just burning with his revived ambition to win it all lol But I think he is also maybe a little more mature and calmer now. And UR calls or not, he's still the guy training 4A and quints, even if in harness, and that's something he'll be satisfied with, regardless of judging.

All that is from memory, though, so hoping for a proper translation, too.

But the 4A and quint thing reminded me... after reading some FS discussions on reddit, I was surprised not to find any mention of Yuzu's quint talk or his progress on 4A, there (not in general threads, maybe there are more dedicated ones). So I checked that other big FS forum and nothing there, either, in the general threads. So it made me wonder if non-Yuzu fans genuinely don't know or are just ignoring the information, like pretending it didn't happen means it didn't lol. I can't wait for Yuzu to be asked about quints in press conferences, forcing the Western world to face the facts. Even if he's only training them for his 4A, someone training quints in harness makes the gazillion of not so great quads being thrown around kind of not seem quite so amazing anymore. To me, at least.

Oh and if anyone likes, I could try to make a spoiler post later today about some highlights from the DVD, the stuff that was new to me.

Wow 3 pages since I went to bed, all on how awful that costume is Personally, I'll pretend it does not exist (at least until I get my chocolates and I'll have to deal with the pink version on one of the packages...).

3 hours ago, ICeleste said:

(I'm quoting OP's spoilers about the recently released DVD). You know what would be even more amazing? A biopic about him... as long as the film is done tactfully, respectfully and with his consent; it has the potential to be great.

I'm bringing this up since I saw that Yuzuru is the third most popular figure skater on Wikipedia. The first and second place belong to Tonya -whose page has twice as much views as him- and Nancy Kerrigan. I think it's a shame that the most well-known figure skater is someone mainly known for her lack of sportsmanship...

I feel extremely lucky to know Yuzuru and to have followed his journey. I never thought I'd become a fan of this sport, but his skating has brought me so much joy. Which is why I'm sad that many people still don't know him and aren't aware of what they're missing out on.

I wish he could become the most well-known person (among the general public) in his sport at least... I feel he's one of the most incredible athletes in the world... Wouldn't it be great to tell his story on the big screen? I mean... winning the 1000th OGM after all the hardship, doubts and pain he went through? That's beyond inspiring

I think Yuzu's story would deserve a TV series, because there's just so much to include. But I'd still prefer it to be documentary style. He's been followed by cameras since he was 10 and I'm sure he has tons of private footage as well, with his team (probably) always filming his practices so he can check them afterwards, so there's no way they wouldn't have enough footage to make a documentary series. Movies tend to get too overdramatic and the differences between whomever they would choose to play him and the real him would be grating, plus stories almost always end up at least slightly fictionalized when turned into movies. Even documentary movies tend to become slightly overdramatic and can at times not include as much info as one would like. I'm writing this with the X Japan documentary movie, "We are X" in mind. It's actually a really cool documentary and a great quick glimpse into the world and drama of X Japan and I can see why it won an award at the Sundance Film Festival, but there was a lot of stuff that did not get included and aside from Yoshiki and Toshi and some mentions of hide and Taiji, the other members only appear very marginally, and it definitely leaned towards the melodrama, but then again X IS drama, so.... But the bottom line was that the documentary was too short to include all info it should have. Still, seeing something like that about Yuzu would be really great, IMO. If the director weren't focused on music documentaries, I'd even be tempted to write to him, now that I thought of it lol Btw, the director is American, so the result would get attention in the West. (I do recommend the movie to anyone who wants to know more about X, even though they don't mention Toshi's story as much).

2 hours ago, memae said:

 

Thanks! I just realised I hadn't heard the BBC commentary either.

 

The more I watch this footage though, the more apparent it is to me that he is pretty strung out on those painkillers. I have no idea how he managed to get his brain together to skate. I first thought so watching his reaction when he realised he won again after Shoma's skate (or maybe it was Javi's?) - he seemed so overwhelmed. He also just doesn't look so well as he takes his starting position- kind of clammy or pale or something. He looks how I feel when I'm in pain and trying to get through something. He truly is something else. Being an Olympic gold medalist is already amazing - doing it while you're less prepared than you'd like, in pain in the most crucial place for your sport, and drugged up on painkillers is an extraordinary feat. 

Brian has actually said - I think both in a documentary and, if IIRC, in the third Team Brian book as well - that even though Yuzu was on strong painkillers, I guess the strongest they could give him and still be legal and not count as doping - he was still in pain. At the start I didn't really get the feeling he was that bad - though I think he was nervous, I think he actually said he was so nervous he felt like throwing up, especially after the sal acted up in the warm-up - but afterwards, he was completely drained. He looked like he might pass out in the KnC and especially afterwards. And I think all his strength just vanished then, both as far as physical energy and emotional walls. Brian also said Yuzu was smiling at the Olympics to hide how he really felt - pain, possible some measure of despair or panic, though he probably didn't even allow himself to acknowledge those feelings - and I think all those walls he put up to appear fine just crashed after the free. Hence all the emotional reactions and the crying. He said he knew he'd won after he'd finished skating, that neither a clean Javi nor a clean Shoma would be able to beat him. But I'm sure there was still some nervousness. And when Javi also got a medal, the waterworks really started. He's cried in public before and it's one thing I admire about him, being able to cry in public like that, but never like he did at the Olympics and knowing everything he went through to get there, who wouldn't cry, really?

And that brings me to a different topic, regarding the DVD/BR which I just got today and just finished watching, but putting it under spoilers, in case there are people who don't want to be spoiled on the content before they get to watch it, too

17 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

I just had to think of the infamous TCC jump codes again...

 

4T+3A+SEQ = "Toe-Axel" (sigh, I'm still so grrrrrrrrrr about this, Brian...)

4F+3A+SEQ = "Flip-Axel"

 

What would they call a 4A+3A+SEQ then?

... "Axel-Axel" ?

... or "Double-Axel" ?

... or " THE Axel sequence" ?

I bet that they have a code for it already... Just like excited parents suggest names for their expected child 

Remember how Yuzu had AAA engraved on his music player - I think it was? - to symbolize 3A? Maybe he'll aim for Axel-Axel-Axel... as in 4A+3A+3A+SEQ... in ice shows, that is lol Ah, imagine if the ISU would make an exception for axels, where sequences including axels get full points like regular combinations, including 3 jump ones. Yuzu would pummel so many quad-3A-3As he'd leave everyone else way behind

Actually, I was in a Javi mood yesterday and I watched Javi's Olympic FS and then I watched both of Yuzu's Olympic programs and what struck me the most as the difference between them was that Javi was visibly nervous during his FS. He was nervous and a bit unsure of himself, I think, and it showed. On the other hand, Yuzu was visibly nervous before the programs - though not as badly as he's been in other competitions - but once the program started there was no hesitation whatsoever and he was oozing confidence, even after the two mistakes in the free. Watching Javi, then Yuzu, this was really obvious to me. I also watched the end of Shoma's and I loved how he was smiling, he was just smiling throughout the end of his program. I'm sure he regretted the fall, but overall, he seemed relieved that this whole thing was over. (Maybe subconsciously even a little relieved that he hadn't won... I like Shoma, but I'm not sure he could deal so well with all the pressures and obligations of being an Olympic Champion. Even being silver medalist seemed a bit overwhelming for him, as far as the off-rink stuff goes.) I think if Javi had been less nervous and more confident, he wouldn't have popped the sal and maybe would have overall beaten Shoma. But it was still a medal and so much better an experience overall than Sochi.

(Btw, Javi was still in Canada yesterday, doing some coaching with Javi Raya, but he should be off to Japan soon... I was still hoping we might get a Cricket Club brothers picture before he left...)

I think Yuzu would be happy if we cheered for all skaters. He loves the sport as a whole and I think moments like ACI, where the crowd lovingly cheered for all skaters - even if a bit more loudly for some of them; personally, I was surrounded by Yuzu fans, so I don't know how other skaters' fans acted, but all the Yuzu fans around me cheered for all skaters, especially in the Men's Free - probably make him happy and perhaps even proud of his fans. I thought, from that POV that ACI was beautiful and I think, for all that other skaters' fans accuse Yuzu fans of only caring about Yuzu, displays like that, where a crowd made up of a majority of Yuzu fans, cheered for all skaters, are a good answer to them. Even if they'll happily ignore it. We just have to make sure all the cheering is respectful and as minimally disruptive as possible

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I don't think the pooh rain is actually forbidden outright. It's just that not every competition has an army of little flower boys and girls who can sweep the ice clear. 

 

Given the fact that Saitama Poohs are still being distributed to places that could use them, it's probably not a bad thing to have a competition or two without them. It will give the good folks who get tasked with Pooh distribution a chance to catch up. 

 

I agree with @KatjaThera on this though: Yuzu is definitely focussed inward during the 6 minute warmups. I'd be surprised if he even sees the crowd; his eyes seem to be 100% on the ice. Keegan, by contrast, is noticing the crowd and will actually react if something catches his attention, like a flag or poster -> you can see his eyes moving to look at whatever it is. It's only after his skate is over that Yuzu's eyes sweep over the crowd. At least, that's what I observed. 

At Japan Nationals this year, throwing gifts on the ice is forbidden. Which a lot of people think is ridiculous, because if Japan doesn't have flower boys and girls, then nobody does. It started with banning banners, then slowly only allowing certain areas of the audience to throw gifts, to not banning gift throwing altogether (and I'm pretty sure it's in reaction to fans banding together at Worlds, so those in areas where throwing was allowed, also threw for those who weren't allowed to). Given that Yuzu gets the most banners and most gifts, it's hard not to think this is a move against him.

I also don't understand why it took so long to distribute the Saitama Poohs. There is really no reason for it to take half a year... The Helsinki Poohs were distributed within weeks, IIRC and there were plenty.

All skaters are focused when they're on the ice. The grand majority of them, in my experience, don't make any eye contact with the crowd until the competition is over. Some of them do it during practice and some do it during programs, but most of them act like the audience isn't even there. To be honest, for some I think that's an effort, but for Yuzu, most of the time, it really seems like he blocks out everything. I don't think that was the case during the 6 minute warmup, although he was focused and intense enough to appear annoyed. And like I said, I can believe he really was, because he was in competition mode. He probably doesn't appreciate jokes or anything other than his music and his coaches' advices when he's like that.

Anyway, while I agree that cheering has to be respectful - which is also why, like I said earlier, I'm more in favor of wordless cheering than calling out the names of skaters, as that is more open to interpretation - I think we shouldn't exaggerate with policing it either. I think being able to withstand the psychological pressure of crowds cheering for your rival is also part of being an athlete (as long as the cheering is just in support of said rival and not done just to rattle you). Like, there was an article at one point where the writer claimed it was unfair to Shoma that he had to skate after Yuzu and the atmosphere of excitement that followed Yuzu's free skate in Pyeongchang and that if not for that, maybe he would have won and not Yuzu. Leaving aside that Javi had to do that, too, it's up to an athlete to withstand such pressure, or else, they'd all have to skate with no audience, to ensure utter fairness from that POV. IMO, the right attitude to have, when the crowd cheers for your rival, is to grab their attention and make them cheer for you, instead, like Yuzu did at GPF'15. But of course, not all skaters can do that.

Actually, one of my pet peeves with cheering at competitions is people who keep cheering and shouting messages even as the skater is taking their starting position. It always makes me cringe. I'm more in the cheer as they're introduced, then shut up and let them focus and get into the program mindframe. I find that much more grating than even cheering for successful jumps, because that's celebrating - the same way cheering after a failed jump is encouraging - because those few moments before the program is when skaters need to gather themselves and focus. And if you keep screaming at them, that's much harder to do. But that could be just me.

If we're talking about practices, I've said it before, that I agree self-control is important, especially during another skaters' RT. Of course, if the skater doing the RT isn't actually doing anything and Yuzu - or anyone else, really - lands something beautifully, I think cheering is perfectly normal. But while another skater is doing an RT, I think the audience should be respectful and let that skater focus, even if they themselves can't take their eyes off of Yuzu. I think it helps, for me, that I don't get mind blown by UA Yuzu. I don't actually think he looks hot in that, I think he looks beautiful, as a whole package - the lines and the skating, in UA is beautiful. In a way I guess it's FS in its purest form.

The free 6 minutes warm-up was different, though. I don't know about audience members trying to out-scream each other... I personally didn't notice that, but I guess I was too caught up in my own reaction. My memory is also probably shot, but I don't remember Yuzu doing a lot of jumping in that warm-up, while he did do a lot of skating around, near the boards. And at one point he literally twirled right in front of the boards, a little to my right and there's just no way that wasn't purposefully playing to the crowds. OK, maybe he thought "Here, look at it from all sides and shut up!" but that was not likely to happen.

About Yuzu looking annoyed, honestly, he looks annoyed or at least very serious most of the time during practice and warm-up. There are occasional smiles, but usually he's so focused and lost in his own world that he looks constantly serious and intense and pissed off. So I'm not sure how much it's just him in his head and how much he's actually annoyed by the audience. I do suspect he was probably bothered by the screaming during the warmup because, yes, it was loud - I don't know about Otonal last year, but maybe that's because I didn't react like that, then, so it didn't register; Origin got to me more then, but I still didn't react at Origin last year like I did this year, either - but I suspect that might be more in the heat of the moment, because he was fired up, especially after the fall in the short and the jump troubles in practice. Outside of that mindframe, I cannot imagine that Yuzu, who is extremely self-aware and aware of his fans and the reactions he can get out of them, seriously expected to show up in that costume that makes one wonder if it really is that sheer, and not get crazy loud cheers and shocked reactions. It's unlike anything he's ever worse before and it does look incredible on him and I'm sure he knew a lot of people would react like they did. Maybe in a different context, he would have even smirked a bit, but as he was in competition mode, he probably didn't appreciate it as much. And that's normal, too. He is human and he will have reactions, just like fans do.

I do think it's important to discuss these things and try to find the best behavior we can all try to adopt. What I, personally, do is try to put myself in his shoes and see how I would like it, but it doesn't always work.

I do wonder a bit if this discussion is also brought on by that video that made it on twitter yesterday (I think it was) about Dai fans apparently trying to upset Yuzu during Sochi warm-up, but to me this is different. Fans at ACI were screaming about Yuzu, not any of the other skaters, I think many of us didn't even notice what the others were doing, while in that video, the cheers are so well-timed with Yuzu's actions, to upset him, that it's hard to imagine it wasn't intentional. However, because that precedent does exist - and I admit I didn't know about it - maybe we should try to temper ourselves, not to give anyone any excuse to accuse us of doing the same (though I think wordless cheering is better than calling out messages to one skater, still). I doubt any of the skaters at ACI minded it. I suspect Keegan to have maybe been amused or bemused by it and I doubt any of the others expected to get much crowd attention anyway, so they were likely able to mind their own business without much worries... I hope the support they got during the actual skating helped each and every one of them, though, because from that point of view, the crowd was top notch.

26 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

Btw random consideration, and I know we've already talked about this but I think it needs a little bit more talking: I was thinking I didn't watch a lot of ACI fancams of this year so I watched the 6 minutes warm up of the FS and... wow, I was surprised and not in a good way. 

 

Honestly, at first I empathize and then I find it funny, but after a while, knowing how Yuzuru might feel, I don't find it funny anymore. All that screaming is just rude and nonsense, has nothing to do with sport and our supposed respect for him. I think that we all should settle down a bit and help other fans settle down as well. 

 

Somehow I also think that ACI is always a different competition because there is free seating, so people don't pay +300 dollars to sit in front. I somehow think that in other competitions, being that the viewers are more 'selected' and the atmosphere is more serious, there will never be so much losing control. Or so I hope. 

 

I think we should seriously start considering that so much hyping might be hurting him a little. People were screaming at him just for passing by. That's not okay, imo. We're not 2 years old anymore.

 

Two cents shared, I'm out. 

Honestly, I've said this before, that I felt honestly ashamed of my own reaction, but at the same time, I could not help it. I don't think it has as much to do with how 'selected' the viewers are (people scream over his every gesture at ice shows and those tickets are expensive, especially the front ones and they usually scream the loudest), it was just that the costume was extremely unexpected and I think everyone was prepared to be disappointed and we very much were not. I also think the fact that you could not really see all the details in the costume from the audience - but you could see that there were details to see - also contributed, so the screaming every time he passed by was because we'd get a close up again and be in disbelief yet again. I guess the atmosphere also became such that we all fed off on each other. Explanation or excuse, take it as you will.

I don't expect it will happen quite like that at other competitions, mostly because now people know to expect it. I suspect some will still be taken aback, because honestly, it looks quite different in real life than in some of the HQ footage, but there will probably not be the utter shock there was at ACI. I was in shock and I admit my instincts got the best of me, as I'm sure they did everyone else. And I'm pretty sure anyone who knows my posting here can attest that I'm not much given to fangirling and it happens rarely. But ACI Origin costume reveal I could not help it. And I am ashamed of it, though it was also kind of fun. I hope Yuzu found it flattering rather than upsetting, because it was meant to be flattering, but maybe he didn't. I guess that gives me a subject to my next letter to him, though, whenever I'll be able to attend a competition again. An apology and explanation for that moment.

I'm sure among those screaming there were also people who look at him as an idol or only like him for his looks or such, but there were also normally serious fans, like myself, who got caught by surprise and lost control. (Funny thing is, a few years ago, before becoming a Yuzu fan, I would never have allowed myself to lose control, but ever since becoming his fan, I tend to be more honest and open with my feelings, so I have less control than I used to. In this case, I guess that was a bad thing.) I know I did not mean to be rude and I'm sure others didn't either, but in cases like this, I guess it's not intention that matters, but how it's perceived by others. It wasn't really just about him being hot or whatever, the whole visual was mind blowing and the visual is part of the program, so I'm not sure it's really unrelated. I really do hope Yuzu wasn't that upset by it, but just in case he was, I will definitely apologize next time I have the chance. Not much else I can do.

1 minute ago, Paskud said:

In interview after this year ACI. Don't ask me which one - too many he had.

And I absolutely can't wait when he will finally do in competition 3a from standstill.

IIRC, he said flip-axel, so it wasn't 100% clear, but given the way he usually talks about his jumps, it does seem most likely he meant 4F-3A, but he didn't actually say quad flip triple axel which only just confused everyone lol

38 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

I'm not 100% sure about 4T and 4Lz, but considering that he could land 4S+3A in 2012, the 4T+3A sequence must have been there in 10/11 or even earlier. I'm pretty sure that he could also land 4Lz+3A in practice, before he introduced the 4Lz at COR 2017 in competition.

Well, since we know he landed 4Lz-3T in practice before COR 2017, it might be safe to assume 4Lz-3A madness happened, too lol

I don't remember the first time we saw 4T-3A in galas/shows... but it might have been 2011, when he stabilized 4T...

3 hours ago, kaeryth said:

 

 

Random, but October 10th, when this magazine comes out, is Toshi's (54th) birthday

5 hours ago, Paskud said:

How Yuzuru has to win artistic program with constant bad posture and weak expression narration around him, even from his own coach?

I'm getting a little sick of this narrative. Brian never said Yuzu has bad posture. What he said is that his PCS have dropped compared to some seasons ago and pointed out that there are things he can still improve - which is far from saying those things are bad, they're just not always as good as they can be - so it's not like there's nothing they can do to not give judges any excuse to drop his PCS. As much as we might all like to think otherwise, Yuzu isn't quite perfect yet, because he's still human. But that also means there's room for improvement and you can be sure he'll be doing his best to do so. Additionally, I think Brian was pointing out that they need to be careful that in their quest of upping the technical ante, they don't lower the bar on things like posture and expression, BECAUSE it's very hard to do both - as most of the field shows - but they can do both and just have to make sure they do. Because most of the field can skate around from jump to jump, but they know that the slightest bit of slacking from Yuzu will mean his scores getting lower - see H&L if nothing else. Just because they don't mention unfair scoring, it doesn't mean they're not aware it's happening and doing their best to counteract it. Again, see H&L. In Helsinki Worlds, they underscored him, but he was so good they couldn't underscore him out of a World Record. I suspect their goal is to always make it so. Whether it'll work or not, given how shameless scoring is now, no idea, but sending the message that he hasn't reached his peak, that there are things he can still get even better at is a good thing.

Additionally, I believe it's been explained that the whole technical program and artistic program split is actually far less dramatic than it seems and that currently the idea is to basically keep it as it is, just give different weight to TES vs PCS in the two programs. Like in the technical program, TES is 60% of the final score and PCS is 40%, while in the artistic program, it's the other way around, TES is 40% and PCS is 60%. Which is actually pretty stupid, still, but nowhere near that dramatic. Of course, the required content might also change and I think there was a mention of both programs being the same length (I forgot if it was 4 minutes or 3 minutes or between). I'm not entirely sure whether this is accurate, but it's what I remember. Either way, it won't happen until after Beijing and maybe hopefully not even then, so there's not much point in discussing it (especially not in this thread...)

The counting rotations for UR ideas would, of course, be ideal, but when the ISU is scared of USBs (), would they really have the courage to entrust such an important decision to scary technology?

I think Lakernik said it himself why they are considering this (same reason why they make some rules less strict; I remember some comment about how they eased up on the UR rule because there were too many UR calls last season... like... ugh... if there were many URs, there should be many UR calls? that UR calls penalize a skater twice is an issue, but not that there were too many...): some skaters - or most skaters - can't do everything, so they're changing the rules to make it possible for those skaters to win as well. Personally, I think that's stupid. That's like deciding to not teach functions or equations in Maths in school, so that more kids can get high grades. Or deciding that it's not necessary for school kids to read classical novels, they can just read magazine articles and SNS posts to develop comprehension skills. And in school, that would still be somewhat understandable, but in a sport, deciding to simplify things so as to make it easier for athletes who can't raise up to a certain level is just stupid. It's a sport, it's not a 'let's make it so everybody can win!' thing. In a sport, the best athlete wins. If one could argue that NOBODY can raise to the demanded level, ok, maybe then the rules do need re-thinking. But obviously, it's not impossible. So why not insist on skaters actually improving to such a level, instead of simplifying the sport so they don't have to? But well, it's the ISU, so...

IIRC, in Yume wo Ikiru, Yuzu said he wants to open a skating school and have all the skaters he admires join in. Because he's Yuzuru Hanyu, I think he could do so much more. I think I've posted this before, but my dream for him, after retiring is starting an international network of skating schools, so all these skaters he admires can still say at their current rinks, but join in this network, where coaching information and knowledge is shared and exchange programs can happen and maybe smaller rinks can join in, too, and perhaps Yuzu & co can help with funding for skaters in countries where skating isn't really well-known. Nowadays, with the internet, it'd be easy to stay in touch and he could be both the face and the one drawing in the sponsors, while at the same time spreading his skating philosophy. They could have their own ice shows as well, which would be both fun and educative. And through it all, he would still help change FS for the better, but starting where it matters, with the skaters. Surely lots of them would want to join and I suspect they might become the majority, so whatever ISU weirdness might happen, they'd be harder to pull off. Obviously, only he knows what he'll do though, and given how much of himself he's already given to this port, I definitely wouldn't blame him if he didn't take on such a big project. But if he did, I think he'd be able to pull it off. Imagine, both Plushenko and Yagudin would probably join the network, who else could claim that? lol

I'm not fully convinced Yuzu will work as a coach - though it's probably my wishful thinking more than anything else, that he'll do choreo instead. But I, too, will probably follow whatever he chooses to do next, but nothing much beyond that.

And, in fact, figure skating is so depressing right now that I think I will stop paying attention to anything not Yuzu until Skate Canada - maybe just take a peek at Javi's programs at JO, but stay well away from the scores. As such, and because I don't think I'm the only one who wants to be able to avoid all that negative stuff, I'd like to ask everyone, if possible, to take the ISU and scoring talks to the General Skating Chat, maybe, so we can keep this an oasis of Yuzu things. I know I was one of those helping with the OT-ness, so I'm not blaming anyone or anything, but my anxiety is seriously working up and FS talk is not helping, so I want to stay away from that, but I also want to be able to come here and enjoy Yuzu talk, still! Thank you!

Personally, I'm not that interested in any other skaters aside from Yuzu, not even to look up their programs. But when at a competition, I try to watch as many as I can, because I paid for the tickets after all and it is fun and interesting - if not as captivating, to me, as watching Yuzu. That said, it is hard to watch everything. ACI last year and especially GP Helsinki were honestly overwhelming (admittedly, I was also a rookie). ACI this year was ok, but I still missed some due to restroom or food breaks. Especially restroom breaks can take forever at Yuzu comps, due to the huge lines. I think it's fine to not watch everything and go take a break, regardless of the reasons. I think that when taking that break, you need to be considerate and try not to bother the other fans. During competition, no leaving the seat until zamboni breaks. During practice, never leave seat during RTs. Same with returning to the seat. That's what I try to do. There was a time, during practice for ice dance and the three pairs were on the ice, but they were all either talking to coaches or skating around, so I felt it was ok to rush back to my seat. If any of them had been doing an RT, I definitely would have waited. Even for eating, I only ate on the upper tables during breaks or practice (when really hungry), never while anyone was competing. I personally just try to put myself into other people's shoes and not to anything that I would find upsetting or disrespectful.

I also personally think it's more ok to just watch the group your fav is in and then leave, to eat or go back to your hotel to rest or go meet friends or whatever, than to leave just to go camp outside. That to me is worse, because the skaters will see you camping there and they will know you weren't watching because it was more important for you to camp outside. That's rude, IMO. Watching just your fav isn't that big an issue, because like someone at ACI pointed out, families and friends of skaters in smaller events do it all the time and that's fine, so... But I think it's essential to still respect the other skaters and their fans, because even if you're not interested, maybe they are. (And that vaguely reminds me... when I went to a VK festival in Japan a few years ago, on the last day I got a really great spot, maybe 10-12 people back from the main stage, but I wanted to watch another band on a smaller stage and also had no stamina left to stand there all day until my fav band - incidentally, X Japan - took the stage; so, at one point, I spotted some ladies that seemed to be fans of one of the bands about to play on the main stage that I didn't really care for that much and I offered them my spot to watch their fav band from, while I went to watch the other band on the other stage. So that kept my spot safe AND made fans of an artist I wasn't into happy, while I also got to see another artist I liked. They kept my spot safe until I returned and were very thankful. ACI could work like that, too... if only everyone weren't there for Yuzu first and foremost But the point was just that something/someone you might not be into, someone else might, so you can sometimes trade off on it.)

45 minutes ago, ICeleste said:

Yuzu is currently almost breaking his body to achieve 4A when he could just get a U.S citizenship... If the USA flag were next to his name, he could just perform a 3x3A program and one of those triples would be ratified as 4A

But would we love him as much if he did that? I'm one of those people who puts a higher price on integrity than winning and I think, as much as Yuzu likes to win, he's the same. I know it's not a serious suggestion, though and it is so frustrating. The only bright side is we are going to see Yuzu get a lot closer - or maybe even develop - to his full potential than just about anyone else and it's going to be incredible to see. But it is incredibly frustrating when he is not rewarded appropriately. Last week, I literally wanted to throw my phone at the stupid plexiglass panel between us and the rink. Luckily I didn't, but I've rarely had such a strong urge to just smash something.

I hope people have started compiling all these mistakes and inconsistencies maybe making a website with them, to be easily accessible and to present the facts as objectively as possible. Maybe even giving them the benefit of a doubt, calling them mistakes and letting skating fans draw their conclusions from the numbers: how many mistakes and how often and to what skaters they happen. A website would be easier to navigate, too, I think. ISU is either in denial that it has issues or intentionally ignoring the fact. Even if these are mistakes, it's unacceptable to have so many of them and at every competition. Maybe a compilation like that would help either open their eyes or at least force them to tone it down (I have little hope they'll stop altogether).

30 minutes ago, memae said:

 

Hopefully Russia has something to say about that and it brings about a closer look at what's going on with the calls and judging so far this season.

ETA: But I think Russia benefits at times, too, so would they really?

I just wish they could do it fairly. This affects the skaters the most. Whether they work hard and their work isn't appreciated - like Yuzu, too. Whether they are encouraged to learn or keep doing jumps with bad technique, which risks their long-term health. Whether they are not encouraged to improve and fix their faults, leading to negative comments about them along the way. Whether they get attacked for being overscored and get a bad rep, even though it's not their fault. It's sad how in this mad dash for... I don't even know what for, I doubt there's that much money in FS and prestige and ego seem like such stupid things, skaters seem become insignificant pawns, to use, to profit over, to make the best of while they're in top shape and then tough luck, on to the next one. Why else would anyone encourage 13-14 year old boys and girls to do quads? I still watch sometimes those videos of 15 year old Yuzu struggling to learn 4T and even that is painful to watch. But at least he'd mostly grown into his body and had no real growth spurt after that, just slightly getting taller and stronger, but nothing dramatic. How much must it suck for a teen to get a quad and then have puberty kick in and possibly undo all that painful hard work? Why risk them having to go through that if not for the instant gratification of having a chance to win now, right away? With such regimens, it doesn't feel like many skaters are aiming for long term careers anymore. I'm even wondering if Yuzu might be among the last skaters to hit double digits on their number of seasons... If so, his double OGM might take many years to equal again... and if he manages to make it three, even longer.

Sorry for the rant...