[2023.10.06] Koichi Domoto x Yuzuru Hanyu Switch Interview (NHK E)

[Wintek]

*machine translation, inaccuracies exist*

Based on Japanese transcription by @yuuzuuruusubs (twitter). Endnotes added for additional context.
 

2023.10.06

Rebroadcast: May 16th, 2025. https://plus.nhk.jp/watch/st/e1_2025051625623?t=229 

Premiere: October 6th, 2023

 

Part 1: Koichi Domoto x Yuzuru Hanyu Switch Interview (NHK E)

 

Hanyu: Good morning.

Domoto: Thanks for your hard work. Thanks for your hard work. Sorry, today…

Hanyu: No, not at all. Likewise. Thank you in advance.

Domoto: Thank you in advance.

---

Narrator: This time on Switch Interview, KinKi Kids’^[1] Koichi Domoto and professional figure skater Yuzuru Hanyu. Their special conversation will be delivered over three weeks.

---

 

Spoiler

Hanyu: Really, thank you so much for yesterday.

Domoto: No, no… It was truly an honor. Thank you very much.

Hanyu: Not at all, really.

Domoto: I’ve never had the chance to watch from the warm-up, so I got to see how it all comes together a bit. That was, well, quite a shock.

Hanyu: I figured that’s probably something I should show to Koichi-san. So I did a proper practice.

Domoto: Hahahahaha!

---

Narrator: The day before the interview, Domoto had visited an ice rink in Sendai City.

---

Hanyu: Thank you very much.

Domoto: No, no, thank you. Thank you. Sorry. This is our first time meeting, right?

Hanyu: Yes, it is. I’m Hanyu. Nice to meet you. Sorry, even though it’s so cold…

Domoto: No, no, not at all, not at all!

---

Narrator: He was specially allowed to observe Hanyu’s training. A rare sight that is almost never shown publicly.

---

Hanyu: Thank you in advance.

---

Narrator: Once his body was warmed up, he finally stepped onto the ice. Even after turning professional, Hanyu continues to rent out skating rinks and train alone.

He starts by gliding lightly, checking the feel of the ice. He connects his smartphone to the rink speakers and selects the music himself.

On this day, he was doing explosive strength training. With short run-ups like in an actual performance, he lands triple axels and quad jumps.

In his mind, jump layouts and images whirl around nonstop.

With almost no rest, he keeps jumping again and again. He continues to shift his body into higher gear.

[BGM: Mrs. GREEN APPLE – 僕のこと]^[2]

Narrator: A program he performed this year in the ice show he produced himself.

That day, Hanyu kept skating like it was a real performance for an hour straight. Domoto watched him intently the whole time.

Narrator: This year marks the 26th anniversary since the debut of KinKi Kids’ Koichi Domoto. He’s produced numerous hit songs.

In his self-directed stage show Endless SHOCK, he continues to challenge intense physical expressions like dynamic sword-fighting and falling down stairs. The person he wanted to meet was…

A professional figure skater who keeps pushing the limits of physical expression—Yuzuru Hanyu. He achieved back-to-back Olympic golds, set world record scores, and many more accomplishments. Last year, he shifted from competition to professional skating. Through his self-produced ice shows, he continues to captivate many people.

A conversation unique to two people who push the limits of the human body—please enjoy it in full.

---

Domoto: Even though you practiced that much yesterday, you barely took any intervals.

Hanyu: That’s right.

Domoto: And the intervals you did take were just long enough to change the music, right? And you were doing that nonstop for almost an hour. I think the amount of energy a human can put out at full power—like "Uryaah!"—is limited to about five seconds. Even if you gradually build it up from warming up, to keep that going for that long… I just thought, you really are something else.

Hanyu: No, no…

Domoto: I really felt that from watching your training.

Hanyu: (laughs) That makes me happy to hear. But when you say something like that, it makes me feel like it was worth doing. Figure skating, more than people imagine, really drains your stamina, even though it looks graceful when you watch it—it’s actually pretty tough.

Domoto: I get that, I really do. Even the jumps—just how much energy they take. For the audience it looks elegant, really beautiful in the moment. For me too, in dance, even if I do a jump—not like those jumps, of course—but even just a single rotation while jumping, if there were a stamina gauge, it would suddenly drop in that instant.

Hanyu: It drops a lot, doesn’t it? And it doesn’t come back, right?

Domoto: Right! It doesn’t come back! So I really do understand, even if just a little, that it uses a ton of stamina.

Hanyu: Honestly, doing that kind of training method is hard unless the right conditions are in place. If you try it when you’re in bad shape, you’ll only get bad experience points. It’ll just keep getting worse and worse. Like, your timing will be off, or your center of gravity will be off… and that’ll get etched into your brain.

Domoto: The bad parts end up getting ingrained.

Hanyu: Exactly. I think the brain tends to find pleasure more easily in the bad stuff. Like, it’s easier to sink into that. You end up replaying in your head over and over like, “Ah, I messed that up.” And the more those thoughts cycle through, the more they stick in your memory. Eventually it turns into trauma, like, “I can’t land this jump when I hear this part of the song.” That kind of conditioning sets in. So I try not to train like that when I’m in bad shape.

Domoto: I see... So when I heard that maybe the practice might get interrupted, or it might not happen at all, I figured it must be because of exactly what you just said. And while I was watching you yesterday, that guess got even stronger.

Hanyu: I think what’s most important is how long you can keep going with good form, good feeling, good sensation. The more you repeat that, the more that good form settles in. Thinking takes a lot of oxygen, so if you can get into good form without needing to think, you reduce how much oxygen you’re using. That way you can increase your explosive power, and focus more on the expressive parts you want to do. It creates a good cycle. So for me, basically, training is “the process of learning good things.”

Domoto: I see.

---

Narrator: Hanyu started skating at age four. At nine, he won a national championship.

Age 9 – All-Japan Novice B – Champion
Age 15 – World Junior Championships – Champion

By the time he was in middle school, he had already won the World Junior Championships, and quickly gained attention. His later success is well-known.

Grand Prix Final – 4 consecutive wins
World Championships – 2-time Champion
Olympics – 2-time Gold Medalist
Four Continents – Champion

Narrator: Among his glittering achievements, one performance that can be called synonymous with Hanyu is this program, themed on Abe no Seimei.

With SEIMEI, which expresses the world of Onmyoji, Hanyu set a world record score at the time.^[3]

We asked Hanyu himself to thoroughly break down this performance, which rewrote figure skating history.

---

Hanyu: No, like… the performance feels young.

Domoto: Really?

Hanyu (laughing): It feels like I just went BOOM with pure momentum.

Domoto: No, but like, from a layperson’s perspective, I wouldn’t know that… I mean, it’s already amazing.

Hanyu: I’m just overflowing with energy at this point.

Domoto: You mean, like, youthful?

Hanyu: Kind of… like, “a bit sloppy!” is what I thought.

Domoto (laughs): Seriously! But I mean, this was when you got the world’s highest score, right?

Hanyu: Yes, at the time. But like, the way I took the music and all, it’s still a bit sloppy.

Domoto: Ah, really! Huh. From your own point of view, how were you doing, like in terms of condition, that day?

Hanyu: The moment I woke up, I was like, “Ah, I’m good.”

Domoto: You felt that?

Hanyu: I did, at that time.

Domoto: Ah, I see.

Hanyu: From around this point, it’s already treated as the second half, but I felt like, “If I can land this, I’ll probably be okay.” And well, I did land it, so from around here I was skating with peace of mind.

Domoto: Like, “I’ve got the points!”

Hanyu: Yeah.

Domoto: Man… that’s amazing.

Hanyu: But thinking about stuff like that, I really do think — it’s competition after all. In the end, it’s the jumps.

Domoto: Ah, I see.

Hanyu: If I were to do this now, things like the line of sight, the direction of delivery and expression — they’d be totally different. But because it was competition, there was that kind of tension, like “Can I land this jump or not?” That feeling of doing it on that fine line is what made it exciting.

But there were also things I couldn’t do because I was at that stage. And now that I’m a pro, there’s also this kind of tension that I can’t bring out anymore. Honestly, I think that’s a hard part.

There’s this huge cheer here like, “You got this!!” or something, because it’s the last jump. I did this big fist pump. I’d never do that now. No way.

Domoto (laughs): Ahh, I see. Yeah, you wouldn’t be doing a fist pump after going pro.

Hanyu: Not during the performance, yeah, I really can’t.

Domoto: Well yeah, that makes sense.

Hanyu: It’s about how much I can protect the world of the performance, so yeah, I wouldn’t do it.
But to be honest, I’m doing stuff just as hard — even harder — nowadays. I don’t think it’s not harder now.

This SEIMEI had three quads and two triple axels. But now I’m doing four quads. (laughs)

Domoto: Like… how do I say this… if I were to put it weirdly — “What are you aiming for?” kind of thing.

Hanyu: Right! Exactly. I think that myself too. I have no idea what I’m aiming for anymore.

Domoto: Yeah, that makes sense. That’s where you end up.

---

Narrator: Continuing to put stress on his body, Hanyu keeps challenging high-difficulty jumps.

On the other hand, Domoto also pursues intense action, like sword fight scenes that go on for over ten minutes.

The two continue pushing their physical limits. What kind of expression lies beyond that?

---

Domoto: When I saw your practice, I kind of felt that in the second half — maybe compared to when you’re full of energy — it must be really tough. You’re probably thinking “This is hard” while doing it.

But the way you move when it looks like you’re feeling that hardship — I found that movement incredibly beautiful.

Hanyu: Yeah, I get that, I do. Like, maybe that’s one of the strengths of sport in general…
And also, when I was watching the sword fights in SHOCK, I really felt that.

You just get more and more and more worn down, right?

Domoto: Exactly…

Hanyu: And you have to somehow recover while standing like this, right? (laughs)
 It’s like, “You drew your sword! It’s starting now!” That’s just how it ends up feeling, no matter what.

Domoto: You really get it.

Hanyu: I’m watching from a performer’s point of view. (laughs)
 But then you get pushed again, and there’s a tiny breathing part…
But even if you breathe, there’s this sense of exhaustion that just can’t be helped...

Domoto: And then the next thing comes, musically speaking.

Hanyu: Exactly.
I really think that’s one of the great things about expression that only humans can do.

Nowadays with AI and robots and all sorts of things being developed more and more — I believe there’s expression and performance that can only be done by humans. And I think this is that kind of thing.

Domoto: Like, even though you’re obviously exhausted, it’s like — “Ah, your body’s starting to move in this beautiful way.”
As someone watching, that’s how it feels.

And somehow… it’s weird, but it’s because you’re human.
That’s exactly why humans are amazing — it’s like we’re being shown that right in front of us.

Hanyu: Holding a pose — that’s the hardest part. After everything.

 

 

Domoto: Yeah, holding’s tough, for sure.

Hanyu: You have to hold your breath too.

Domoto: So when you stop moving —

Hanyu: Right? It’s rough.

Domoto: Like for me, in a sword-fighting scene, I’m swinging like “Wahh!” and then bam!
 The moment I stop, I feel like I’m gonna die. (laughs)

Hanyu: Pfft…! Like, sweat just bursts out. (laughs)

Domoto:
Yes, yes, exactly!

---

[2022.07.19] Press Conference

 Hanyu: I’ve decided to continue skating as a professional athlete.

 

Narrator: Last year^[4], Hanyu announced his transition from competitive athlete to professional.
What he challenged this February was an ice show at the Tokyo Dome.

It was the first-ever solo performance by a skater at the venue.
He captivated 35,000 people.

---

Hanyu: Well, I’ve moved to a different stage, away from competition for now. Even during my competitive days, honestly, there were times when I’d think, “Okay, I’m expressing this,” but then wonder, “Am I really being evaluated for that expression in the actual score?” There were quite a few times when what I personally felt and the score didn’t quite match up. On the other hand, sometimes I’d land all my jumps and think, “I didn’t put that much effort into the expression part,” but still get high scores. That kind of thing happened a lot. That’s just how it is. I guess that’s what sport is, you know?

But now that I’ve entered the professional world, I’ve started to feel like when I think “Yeah, I really expressed myself,” or “I gave everything I wanted to show,” the response from the people watching tends to match up with that sense I have. So in that way, I feel like, “Ah, maybe finally, what I want to do—what I want to express—is starting to be communicated through that sense of conviction I have.”

Domoto: That’s probably something you can only feel because you went through competition and really pushed yourself to the limit. For me, even now, when I’m on stage and think, “Ah, today I was really on,” or that I managed to express myself in my own way, that’s exactly when people will say, “Today wasn’t that good.”

Hanyu: That happens, doesn’t it? It does, it does. (laughs)

Domoto: Like, “Huh? Seriously?” And when someone says, “Today was really great!” inside I’m thinking, “Actually, I was kind of off today…”

Hanyu: That’s tough, right? Like, when you put so much emotion into it—like “Wahhh!”—and everything just clicks inside you, and then someone says, “Were you a bit off today?” It’s hard when that happens. That give and take is really...

Domoto: But, still, that’s the world you’ve lived in. Where you're assigned a score and a ranking. I always wonder, what kind of mindset do you need to live in that kind of world?

Hanyu: But you know… in a way, it’s easy to understand. Whether you did it or didn’t comes out as a score. So if the score is low, you can just think, “Ah, I didn’t do well,” and accept it. If the score is high, then it’s proof that you were better than anyone else. And for the people watching, they’re not just going off their own values—they can feel whether it was good or bad through the score, the result. There’s a standard. So in that way, maybe it made it easier for everyone to celebrate together.

I mean, yeah… in a sense, it’s easy to understand. Whether you did it or didn’t comes out as a score. So if the score is low, you can think, “Ah, I didn’t do well,” and accept it. And if the score is high, then it’s proof that you were better than anyone else. For the people watching too, rather than it being something shaped by their own values, they can feel whether it was good or bad based on the score—the results. There’s a standard. So maybe, in that way, it was easier for everyone to celebrate together.

Domoto: I see. So, in that sense, it’s an easy-to-understand form of evaluation.

Hanyu: That’s right. But, now that I’ve gone pro, that kind of framework has been removed. So now I have to think more about “how much can I convey through expression,” and also including the difficulty of the jumps, how I can get people to feel the tension, the excitement… Lately, I’ve been thinking about those things a lot, as a professional.

Domoto: I see.

---

Narrator: Even after turning pro, Hanyu continues the same level of practice as when he was competing. Alongside his high-level technique, he says he constantly thinks about how to express the world of each program.

---

Hanyu: My ideal image of myself… I think it’s really difficult. To be honest, the moments when I’m doing choreography are actually pretty easy. My hands are moving, my feet are moving, the jumps are flashy, and the spins are flashy too. But to captivate someone just by standing still and doing nothing—I think that’s the hardest thing. Still, I feel like recently I’ve started to understand little by little how to show that. It’s really hard to explain in words, but… I feel like now, I’ve started to be able to bring out a certain kind of message even from just the way I “stand.” That message, that presence—I think it’s started to come through. It’s hard to put into words, though.

Domoto: No, I totally get that. Like, for me too, when I watch performances—whether it’s my seniors or juniors—I sometimes feel like, more than when they’re dancing like “Wahhh!”, the moment they’re just walking across the stage is what feels incredibly cool. I think maybe that feeling is a bit similar. Even with my own choreography, I might have big flashy moves, but it’s like, “This moment—when I just ease off—is what makes it cool.”

Hanyu: I get that, I get that.

Domoto: You never really know if those moments are getting through to the people watching, but I feel like those moments must be something you really value.

Hanyu: Yeah, that kind of… how to let them “breathe,” right? For me too, the number of programs I have to perform keeps increasing—like, I’ve got to do around 13 programs that are each about 4 minutes long. And of course, it’s physically demanding, but the tension doesn’t hold, and my focus starts to waver partway through. I really feel the quality starts to drop. So, precisely because of that, I think a lot about how I can give meaning to the moments where I’m just skating—not just the jumps, but even when I just glide and lift my hand. How can I convey something in that instant? That’s something I really think about. It’s hard, though.

Domoto: No, but you’re already doing it.

Hanyu: Really? (laughs)

Domoto: I saw it yesterday—even in practice.

Hanyu: Then that’s good.

Domoto: You know, it’s kind of a weird thing, but like, when people do a pointing gesture or raise their hand, everyone tends to focus on that. But that’s not really the point, is it? Like, you’re not focusing on your fingertips. If you’re actually focusing on somewhere else, your fingers just follow naturally. That kind of thing—the feeling is surprisingly different between the person watching and the person doing it. Like, in ballet too, even if it looks like they’re focusing so much on their fingertips, you’re told, “You must never put strength there.”

Hanyu: That’s so tricky, right? You’re like, “Don’t put strength there!”

Domoto: Right, right! And then they push it down and go, “See? You’re using strength here!”

Hanyu: (laughs) Yeah, they totally get you. “Elbows!” “Use your shoulder blades, shoulder blades!” “You’ve got no air in there~!” That kind of thing happens.

Domoto: It’s weird, isn’t it? The way humans use their bodies is really mysterious.

Hanyu: And everyone has their own bone structure too, right? Like, for example, if I totally relax, I end up like this—but there are people who say my hands are beautiful that way. But from a ballet perspective, this isn’t the “correct” form. Still, maybe it’s exactly because I’m shaped like this that a certain kind of emotion comes across. I feel like, in the end, you just have to leave that up to your own body’s structure.

Domoto: Yeah, your bone structure… But like, seriously, your arms and legs are long.

Hanyu: They’re not long!

Domoto: They are long!

Hanyu: Honestly… it’s a complex of mine. My hands feel short and all...

Domoto: No, come on…! If you’re saying that, then what does that make me?

Hanyu: No, no, I've managed to... somehow add bulk to my feet with my skates.

Domoto: No, no…! But still, from the viewer’s perspective, it really is beautiful, and your arms and legs look so long.

Hanyu: I’m glad to hear that. It’s really about how you present yourself, I think.

Domoto: (laughs)

Hanyu: I mean, rather than holding yourself like this, if you do it like this, it looks longer, or more beautiful, you know?
With figure skating boots, they come all the way up to here, so to be honest, your feet don’t really extend.

Domoto: Ah, I see. Like with pointe shoes and all that?

Hanyu: Exactly. You can’t really point your toes in that direction.

Domoto: Ahh, right—you can’t point them.

Hanyu: So your feet are always kind of stuck in this position.
That’s why, when you do manage to create this kind of extended line, it really stands out compared to others.

Domoto: That makes sense!

Hanyu: So I really pay attention to how much I can stretch in that direction.
And sometimes, if I want a different texture or feel, I’ll purposely move them in this direction.
Like when I do a kick—rather than just snapping it out super cleanly this way, I think, “Wouldn’t it look cooler if I did it this way instead?”  That’s the kind of thing I’m conscious of.

Domoto: Wow~!

Hanyu: At least, in my mind. I don’t know if it actually gets across.

Domoto: No, no—even if it doesn’t all come through, I think people definitely feel it as “cool” or “beautiful.”

Hanyu: Yeah, I think so too.

Domoto: That’s really interesting.

Hanyu: It is, isn’t it? Just little things, here and there. But it’s things like this that make me feel like—I just can’t stop expressing myself.

 

— END OF PART 1 —

 

NOTES:

[1] KinKi Kids, Japanese duo consisting of Koichi Domoto and Tsuyoshi Domoto under the talent agency Starto Entertainment (formerly of Johnny & Associates). They officially debuted under the name of Kinki Kids on July 21, 1997. With more than 30 million physical copies sold, they are one of the best selling boy groups in Asian history and top 20 best-selling artists of all time in Japan. Reference Wikipedia.

[2] Other background music used by Yuzuru while practicing was Battle Theme from Final Fantasy 9 and, in training clips shown later on, Parisienne Walkways. For extra context: this interview was conducted before RE_PRAY was announced and Domoto was surprised by the game music as he is a big Final Fantasy fan.

[3] Japanese figure skater and two-time Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu portrayed Abe no Seimei in his Olympic free skate program Seimei, using the soundtrack of the movies Onmyōji and Onmyōji II. With the program, Hanyu became the first skater across all disciplines to score above 200 points in the free skate and set back-to-back world records in the 2015–16 season.[19] This program also contributed to the win of his second Olympic title in 2018 and the completion of the first career Super Slam in the men's singles discipline in 2020. Reference Wikipedia.

[4] In reference to the July 19th, 2022, press conference when Yuzuru announced turning pro. The Yuzuru x Domoto Switch interview is a rebroadcast, the premiere was on October 6th, 2023.