eagle

The irony is ISU, the judges, even JSF dont seem to appeciate Yuzuru. Olympic Channel, the GP event organisers, Beijing 2022 organisers yes but not the powers that be in figure skating.

Well you were the one who asked question, I answered. I checked & found out Gillis G has won OG Gold 3X. I do consider OG gold medals as one of criteria to be regarded as GOAT, across all Olympic sports. When compared between different sports, titles is what we see. Debating on programmes, leaving a mark all that, is for die hard figure skating fans. So in this regard I do not regard Michelle Kwan as GOAT. Blunt as it sounds, she did not enough mental fortitude to make it for OG Gold. Other OG champs also had to compete under intense pressure with very capable rivals but they made the last lap

I only found out abt Mr Gillis after consulting Wikipedia. One reason I think its cos mass media was not as widespread & whatever was there were most destroyed during WW2. One major reason Dick Button is in the picture is cos... He's still alive. He can voice up to make himself relevant. Or the media will come knocking to ask his opinion. As for Ladies discipline, it's a different category so I didnt even think abt them across the sports. Some OG champs, male or female, are better known than others cos they were the 1st to win from their region or their country. Yuzuru was the 1st Asian men singles figure skater to win OG gold. Shisuka Arakawa was the 1st Asian ladies singles. Shen/Zhao were the 1st Asian pair As for Ladies/women, they wouldnt be in my list until they win 2 OG Golds, a few WCs. For non Olympic sports, World titles is used as benchmark. For this, squash queen Nicol David has won 8 WC, no 1 in rankings for 9 years. Both are record breaking feats, the squash world body call her GOAT upon her retirement announcement this yr.

Mr Gillis has passed away long ago. Mr Button is 89, assuming he lives pass 100, there's still 10++ years to go make it.

Not just figure skating, across all Olympic sports. Why is Michael Phelps iconic in swimming? Cos he's a multiple OG gold winner. Chris Hoy from track cycling? 2X OG gold in Keirin & Team Sprint. Lin Dan of badminton ? 2X OG Gold in mens singles. Only men singles to do so thus far. Kohei Uchimura, gymnastics - 2X OG Gold, All Around In men's single skating, other than Dick Button & Yuzuru is a Gillis Grafstrom, who won OG gold 3x way back (1920,24,28). Next in line is Plushenko with 1 OG gold, 1 silver(not counting the team event in 2014) So, any challengers need to win 2 OG Gold 1st before can shake hands with mr Button & a bow from Yuzuru. At least 1 individual gold & 1 silver to high 5 with Plushenko

To be 2X Olympic champ in the modern era is already a feat since no male skater managed to do it since Dick Button. Because it is much harder to be 2X OG champ in this era than Dick Button's time. So, in order for the next competitor to beat Yuzuru, they have to win OG Gold 3X, not counting team event. In which in the current system extremely hard to achieve. It took 66 years from Dick Button before Yuzuru did it. Who knows how many more years before the next male skater is able to win 2X, we wouldnt be around to see it anyway

As far I'm concerned, in the eyes of ISU & most of the judges, they want Nathan to be no 1. Yuzuru dont get brownie points for being 2X OG champ, they want him to retire so they can move on to the next champ. Such message should be blatantly obvious to all. As long as Nathan just does reasonably well, clean skate, do multiple quads, he's the hyped one. Which is something that dont happen with other sports I follow. In fact, two 2X OG champs, (at age 30, 35) will be competing in 2020 Summer OG. There is difference in how their world governing body treats/appeciates their 2X OG champ & how ISU treats Yuzuru.

I wouldnt go so far to say that they will drop Nathan. As long as the athlete represent USA. Having seen back then how Shen/Zhou had to pander to the western judges taste, the kind of music and expression that is understood by the judges If I remember correctly, Shen Yi received a lot of flak among China fans for being more sensual/sexy in her performance. Shen/Zhao I think were the 2010 OG champ in pairs, 1st Asians I think.

I have watched CBC 2019 Worlds for Yuzuru & Nathan's programs on youtube. And 2019 WTT for Nathan and Vincent. The praises towards Nathan has increased compared to previous years. Like Nathan suddenly improved his skating skills, transitions dramatically. I havent watched the recap thing that LordesMoon is talking abt.

By giving VERY generous PCS and GOEs to Nathan AND Vincent Zhou for 2019 WC. If it's just Nathan, ok fine they are continuing the momentum from before 2018 OG. Nathan AND Vincent very generous PCS, GOEs, sthing's up. In previous pages, others have stated that Yuzuru didnt get a bump for his PCS after 2014 OG as many thought. He had to work very hard to get those PCS, still has to till today. Unlike the freebie generous increase in PCS Nathan and Vincent. And high GOEs(+4,+5) on jumps. Nathan & Vincent improved, but not that... much. Its obvious. Like who are the judges trying to kid, lol. Another Asian, Boyang Jin (as stated by Max Ambesi) never got +3 under the old system for his textbook 4Lutz. In fact, Boyang at times has gotten lower GOE for better quality jumps. But then, Boyang is from an even smaller fed than Japan. 2nd , the narrative among the North America media like Canada's CBC has shifted to praising Nathan. Previously, Kurt Browning heaped praises on Yuzuru. NBC of course has been hyping Nathan since Nathan went senior. AND....and, the newly elected athlete rep Eric Bradford defending Nathan, saying that GOE is subjective. The athlete rep saying that. <facepalm> Lol, no wonder figure skating dont get respected. Lastly, some of us have been thru the Patrick Chan score inflation. He still won WC despite falls, despite his closest rival giving a stellar performance. There was 1 year where many fans believe Daisuke Takahashi should have won WC instead of Patrick. So yeah, it is the 3 big federations lobbying for their athlete. They are lining up everything to push forth their agenda, in a pretty obvious way too. I mean they dont even bother to be discreet abt it like in politics.

That may be true up to OG 2018. But this Olympic cycle onwards it is clear they are gearing/pushing for Nathan to be the next OG champ. Nathan was still young & new 2016 to 2018. So, unless Yuzuru ups his tech, BV game, the judges will go with Nathan. The message is they want a North American to win it in 2022, that the Asians had their time, now its USA's turn for a piece of the pie. Which is unfortunate but not surprising

Haha, Just shows Yuzuru is the typical guy, outside of performance/work he's not into fashion. Just whatever is comfortable will do.

I would say that its cos Yuzuru is 2X Olympic champ. China has lots of OG gold medalists but the one who won it from figure skating has retired - Shen/Zhao. Plus figure skating isnt exactly a popular sport in Asia except Japan, all Winter sports are not. Boyang is just a Worlds bronze medalist, not even Olympic medalist, so he wouldnt be that much in the China fans radar. He does seem to have a lot of fans on weibo. There are fans shouting "Jin Jin jia yu" before Boyang skates. As for Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, now Nathan Chen & Vincent Zhou, I regard them by their nationality. Just as I would like to be known as from X country although being ethnic chinese. Country 1st. Of course, Yuzuru's humble personality & handsone features helps make him even more popular. He's the ultimate good boy image -so polite, intelligent, very hardworking, has money, has looks, filial. Mothers would love to have him as son-in-law, the young ladies would love to have him as husband. Of course, they overlook his perfectionism, OCDness, risk taking behaviour that can cause lost of hair. Hahaha.

Japanese is more fair, Chinese skin a bit more yellow, face shape. But then, I'm from an Asian country so I can tell. The difference between Koreans & Japanese are harder cos they are mostly equally fair, similar face shape. When they speak, then we know, from the language or accent.

LOL. The 4iLz and 3iA+2 QUADS is really out of this world. Maybe in 50 years when the skates become motor powered. We wouldnt be around to see it.

Isnt 3A compulsory? So, its 6 quads + 3A. Thats why people keep saying Nathan can go for 6 quads in free prog. Jumping 4A + 6 other quads seems too much for any skater to achieve.

They dare not do that with Plushenko or TAT though. Both are strong personalities, if anybody messes with them esp TAT, I'll get popcorns ready.

I think Yuzuru has enough fans from among the Russian side - TAT, Plushenko, Yagudin. Their own top Russian men skater, Kolyada dont get even 20% of praises that Yuzuru gets from these 3.

Your post reminded me that people have complaining abt Yuzuru's posture since he made his senior debut at 17. He slouches when he lacks stamina due to his asthma. The pointing toes business,as a layman, till today I dont understand why the men need to point toes. The top men are doing 3 to 4 quads in 4 mins, where is there time to think abt pointing toes. Next season,this phenomena will spread to the ladies , - they will start quad & 3A craze.

In regards to Joe Inman interview on TSL, I dont recall him saying its bland by 'western standards'. If I recall correctly, Inman said Yuzuru's choice of music is rather monotonous. That some dont have rise & fall to make it exciting. I think this type of music refers to Hope & Legacy which is soft, quieter music, abstract theme. He did comment Seimei (which he calls as Samurai program) as different from bland/monotone. Inman didnt like Yuzu's 'carriage'(posture), that he doesnt point his toes. Lol. As example of who among the men's carriage Inman likes is Koldyada whose back is always straight. Hmm, and he loved Jason Brown's SP. Jason should also be on his list of men with good posture. The comment on Yuzu's arms just hanging by his side and looking down was by Dave Lease. I forgot whether or not it was Inman who mentioned abt Yuzu's 1st min as empty. Jonathan & Dave said it happens with most if not all the men with the new 4 min rule. As a whole, TSL this time was pro Nathan, critic Yuzuru somewhat. They are not purely nationalistic though, Dave Lease still dont like Vincent Zhou & thinks Vincent should not have been on the podium.

Hahaha, now you're making me jealous I never went to watch Prince's concert live (or MJ's)when he was still alive. I dont recall him ever coming to my country though. Yuzu is Yuzu, he has his own presence

Oh ok. Tq. I forgot which assortment of interviews it was from

Wait, I digress from my original mission. @kiches, was it you who originally asked about Shae LB's interview on Hope & Legacy? I still havent found it after searching the whole afternoon, sorry. Maybe I remember wrong and your info more detailed.

I do find it more restrained actually, and said so. Even my 80 year old mother said so. It does not diminish Yuzu's skating ability in any way. Cos by saying Yuzu is restrained by his Japaneseness is saying he restrained by his Asianess. Which in turn is saying myself, . His Asian restraint is coming thru the LGC, from ACI to WTT performances. It's still very very good performance of course. So, if just by saying that you guys get so sensitive, then I dunno how you all survive others sports where stuff 100 worse are said about ones favourite. We take all in stride

It is not an assumption, it's based on his LGC performances and my standard of rockstar(but hey my standards are high). Real life rockstars which I named in later posts. It's still restrained by comparison to those guys of course. It doesnt diminish Yuzu's ability in any way. 2nd, off ice - restrained as in Yuzu's many interviews over the years,2012 to 2018. Polite, diplomatic and all that. Restrained even by Asian standards in some ways, but more open by Japanese standards I reckon. Some Japanese, I cannot get them to say they dont like something, they'll go about it in such roundabout way it gives me headache. Still not an assumption, there are norms to be compared to. And then, another forumer mentioned about being careful about some 'generational generalization' when i talk about different tastes of younger generation. soo many rules. So yeah, that'll help dispel the notion that figure skating fans are sensitive.