yuzurujenn Posted September 20, 2024 Share Posted September 20, 2024 Info: https://www.kateigaho.com/article/detail/177345 https://x.com/KATEIGAHO/status/1829021252092391744 https://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0DBZ2R5ZF/sekaibunkacom-22 https://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0DBZ2S2RJ/sekaibunkacom-22 https://www.instagram.com/p/C_PjB7av7BY/ https://www.instagram.com/p/C_SHFKQPea_/ https://www.instagram.com/p/DAHwG74yMQB/ 800th issue commemoration 63 of the best lodgings and impressive hotels nationwide ◆Tachi Hiroshi visits "exceptional" lodgings ◆Natural resorts that impressed Matsushima Nanako ◆The latest wellness hotels ◆Lodgings to enjoy the bounty of the land ◆The joy of staying in an art-filled environment Great Ajari Shionuma Ryojun + Professional figure skater Hanyu Yuzuru Special conversation: The meaning of "living" Includes a bound-in poster of Hanyu Yuzuru *Some of the photos in the special feature and the poster differ between the regular and premium light versions. New high jewelry worn by Momota Kanako Living national treasure Shimura Fukumi turns 100 Special supplement: "Autumn delicious recipe collection" Kateigaho travel 8 million yen tour to make your dreams come true Enjoy dreams and beauty. A lifestyle magazine that delivers a rich lifestyle For over 60 years since its launch, Kateigaho has consistently proposed a world "full of dreams and beauty". With seasonal illustrations, a food feature packed with delicious food, fashion and beauty features to help you enjoy your outfit, and culture and interior design from Japan and abroad, this is a lifestyle magazine that brings you a rich lifestyle every month, from the beauty of Japan's four seasons and traditional culture to travel, gardening, cooking, and more. Online article published on Oct 3rd, 2024: https://www.kateigaho.com/article/detail/177647 Japanese text: Reveal hidden contents 特別対談 塩沼亮潤+羽生結弦「生きる」意味 特別対談 塩沼亮潤（大阿闍梨〈だいあじゃり〉）＋羽生結弦（プロフィギュアスケーター）「生きる」意味 『家庭画報』創刊800号記念号において、奇跡の特別対談が実現しました。宮城県仙台市・慈眼寺のご住職、塩沼亮潤大阿闍梨と、数々の金字塔を打ち建て、世界のフィギュアスケート史にその名を刻むレジェンドスケーター・羽生結弦さん。 人々の希望の光となってきたお二人の、深いながらも軽妙洒脱なやりとりには、私たちの道を照らしてくれる力がありました。生きる意味、苦しみの受け止め方など、今こそ聞きたい魂の言葉、お届けします。 数々の辛苦と向き合ってきたお二方が紡ぐ珠玉の言葉 最難関の荒行「大峯千日回峰行（おおみねせんにちかいほうぎょう）」満行者 塩沼亮潤大阿闍梨 塩沼亮潤 1968年宮城県仙台市生まれ。福聚山慈眼寺住職。東北高等学校卒業。87年吉野山金峯山寺にて出家得度。99年大峯千日回峰行満行。四無行、八千枚大護摩供満行。2003年故郷の仙台市秋保（あきう）に、慈眼寺建立。著書多数。24年6月世界文化社より『くらしの塩かげん』刊行。 オリンピック2連覇、グランプリファイナル4連覇 羽生結弦さん 羽生結弦 1994年宮城県仙台市生まれ。プロフィギュアスケーター。東北高等学校、早稲田大学卒業。2014年ソチ五輪、18年平昌五輪金メダリスト。連覇は66年ぶり。24年9月15日無観客開催、配信予定の『能登半島復興支援チャリティー演技会〜挑戦 チャレンジ〜』出演。 八風吹けども動ぜず、の心持ちで受け止めたい。生きるヒント、パワーになる魂の言葉 幼い頃、自ら今の道を決めた大阿闍梨と羽生さん 塩沼大阿闍梨（以下、塩沼） 羽生さんをお久しぶりに慈眼寺へお迎えできて嬉しいです。 羽生さん（以下、羽生） 僕も再会を楽しみにしていました。お変わりなくてなによりです。 塩沼 今回、羽生さんと一緒に“生きる意味とは？”“人生とは？”と大事なお話をしていくわけですが、今の“羽生結弦さん”になるという想いはいつ頃からお持ちだったのでしょう。 羽生 僕は4歳でスケートを始めてからすぐに「オリンピックで金メダルを獲ります」と言っていました。獲りたいではなく獲ることが既定路線になっていた。変な子なんですよ（笑）。 塩沼 変な子繫がりで、私の話もしていいですか（笑）。テレビで千日回峰行のドキュメンタリーを見て「この修行をやりたい」と憧れを抱いたのが小学５年のとき。ずっとその想いを抱き続け高校卒業後に吉野山の金峯山寺へ修行に出向いたわけですが、小僧の期間でさえすでに「自分は間違いなく千日回峰行を満行できる」と確信していました。変な子ですよね（笑）。 羽生 でも実際やってみたら、めちゃくちゃしんどくなかったですか？ 塩沼 いやあ、しんどいです。 羽生 僕も、幼い自分が思い描いていた道筋と全然違ったんです。もっと余裕で「金メダル獲れました」みたいなイメージを抱いていたのですが、本当にキツかった。なんで人間、苦しいほうに行こうとするのでしょう（苦笑）。 塩沼 “真理”を求め続けるのでしょうね。ストイックに己に向き合うと、余分なものが削ぎ落とされて自分の心もクリアになります。我々にも、1000日間や一日48キロ歩くなどの目安はありますが、それはあくまでも内面磨きのために必要な修行期間。大自然に魅せられて対峙している冒険家や探検家の方々と、行者の違いはまさにそこなんですね。 羽生 内面磨きのために自分を追い込むわけですね。体力トレーニングや筋力トレーニングをしているときは、ある意味、行に近い感覚なのかもしれません。プロフィギュアスケーターになって“表現”というものをより強く考え始めるようになってから、ひたすら自分に向き合う時間が増えたように思います。 やっぱり、自分は何者なのか、生とはなんだろうということを突き詰めて考えて、自分の芯ができ始めないと思い描く表現ができないんだなと痛感したんです。逃げ場もないほどに追い込まれないと、見えてこない境地もあるのではないでしょうか。 塩沼 確かに。でも、修行やパフォーマンスに向けて、ギアや効率を上げたい仕事に従事していなければ、あまり追い込まれずに生活できるほうが本当はいいのでしょうね（苦笑）。 羽生 そうですよね。ただ、学生時代のテストや宿題など、期限を切られて追い込まれるからこそ、集中力が養われる面もある気がします。 塩沼 追い込まれた状況で自らと向き合う経験は、新たな境地や気づきに開眼するために有効かもしれませんね。 羽生 僕は挑戦していかないと自分らしくないという想いがあったので、成功率10％、20％という高難易度の技を組み入れて試合で戦ってきました。スケートに夢中になった理由を思い返してみると、非日常体験の中で難しさに向き合える点にあった気がするんです。 塩沼 難しさを極めた中での成功体験があると、それはやめられないでしょうね。 羽生 でも、実は今でも失敗した夢ばかり見るんです。最近も試合の夢を見たのですが、始まりの時間を過ぎているのにまだ衣装も着ていないし靴も履いていない。焦りました（苦笑）。 塩沼 成功した夢は見ないんですか？ 羽生 あまり見ないんですよね。でも4回転半を跳ぶ夢は実際、成功する前に見ていました。「今跳べたけど、これ夢だ。でもこの感覚、すごくリアルだから記憶しておこう……、ちょっと目が覚めてきたから、起きて4回転半のイメトレしよう」と、もう夢ごと使ってしまおう（笑）みたいな熱量を持って取り組んでいましたね。阿闍梨さんは修行中の夢、見ませんか？ 塩沼 山の中を歩く夢は、今でもたまに見ますね。千日回峰行が終わったという意識がなく、毎日が1000日目の気持ちなのです。修行中の日誌も実際、999日までしか書いておらず。心のどこかで修行が続いているのでしょう。 日誌に書き綴ることで発見し、辿り着いた境地 羽生 日誌は毎日書かれていたんですか？ 塩沼 はい。999日まで1日も欠かさず書いていました。千日回峰行を始める前に、どんなプレッシャーやストレスが来ても自分に負けず「いくぞ！」という気持ちで朝、修行に向かった日の日記には白丸、「今日は行きたくないな……」と感じたら黒丸を書き残すことにしていたのですが、ネガティブな気持ちで行に臨んだ日が1日もなかった。すべて白丸。そこが、今でも自信につながっているところなんです。 羽生 それはすごい。書くことで「明日もやろう！」とメンタルを支えたり、自分を変えなきゃ、と思われた効果もあったのでしょうか。 塩沼 それもあるかもしれませんね。あとは、そのとき感じた想いや気づきを忘れないために毎日書き留めていたんです。 羽生 阿闍梨さん、一緒です。完全にアスリートですね（笑）。スケートのコーチに「こうやったら跳べたという感覚をその日のうちにノートに記しておきなさい」と指導を受けて、僕も小さい頃から書いていました。昔からスケート ノートに書き残すことが習慣になっているので今も気づいたことを綴っているんです。 塩沼 なるほど。羽生さんが自分の内面を表現する言葉に、世界中の方々が共感する力があるのはその積み重ねが原点なんですね。スケートノートに向かうときは、ポジティブな気持ちで書かれることが多いのでしょうか？ 羽生 僕はネガティブはネガティブで全部受け止めてしまおう、認めよう、と考えていまして。人にネガティブな気持ちをぶつけるのはよくないので、スケートノートに全部書く。書いて破いてポイ、終わり！ というパターンは時々ありましたね。破いたノートのページ数だけ煩悩を捨ててきたなと思っています（笑）。 塩沼 いい方法ですね。仏教の教えでも一番の悟りは何かというと、執着を捨てることなんですよ。「八風吹けども動ぜず」という禅語が今、私の心にぴたりとはまっているのですが、自分の心を乱す事象である八つの風（利益、衰退、陰口、名誉、称賛、悪口、苦、楽）が訪れると、人間どうしても心が揺れ動いてしまう。もちろん、一時的には反応して乱されることもある。大切なのはそのことにずっととらわれないようにすること。すべてを放下（投げ捨てる、捨て切る）して、新しい境地と出会うことが人間の目指すべき生き方、という教えなのですが、羽生さんがなさってきたことはまさにそれですね。私もこれからそのやり方でいきましょう。「今日1日でこんなに書いて捨てるの？」なんて、すごい量になってしまったりして（笑）。 羽生 そんなはずないです（笑）。 極限の状況だからこそ発揮される集中力 塩沼 ところで、2023年2月にスケーター史上初めて東京ドームで行われた単独公演『ICE STORY 2023 “GIFT”』を拝見し、感動しました。極限の状況下であのパフォーマンスができる原動力は、どこにあるんですか？ 羽生 皆さんに期待していただけるから。やっぱり、それしかないです。僕は今、自分1人だけで2時間強滑り続けるというアイスショーを行っているわけですが、極限まで追い込まれて体力もメンタルも削られているからこそ、パフォーマンスに優しさが溢れてきたり、逆にちょっと破壊的な空気をも生み出せると感じることがあって。「なんでこんなに頑張っているんだっけ？ 何のためにやっているんだっけ？」という思考になりかけるときもあるのですが、演技を届けたときの皆さんの反応やエネルギーがやっぱり楽しくて、幸せで。その快感を味わいたくてやっている、そこだけです。 塩沼 このパワーはなんだろうと思いました。 羽生 それくらいやらないと、皆さんの心を動かすようなパフォーマンスはなかなか出せないんですよね。そもそも、自信がそんなにないんです……。皆さん、僕のことを「メンタル強い」とおっしゃるんですけど、強くないからこそ練習して、すごく準備しないと耐えられない。あと、つい最近も「なんで僕はナルシストと言われてしまうんだろう」と考えてしまって。スケーターとして鏡を見る機会は多いですが、好きで見ているわけでもなく。撮影で写真確認をと言われても、別に自分の顔を確認しなくてもいい、と思うくらいなんですが。 塩沼 まずい。私のほうがナルシストかもしれない……。さっき撮影していただいた写真も「写真見せて！ いいね、いいね」って（笑）。 羽生 あはは（笑）。僕は、もともと自信がないので中途半端なことができないんですね。例えばアップしているときには、自分の世界に浸るくらいまで集中していることが多い。エアで熱唱している姿を見て、恥ずかしがらないところが「自分に酔っている」と思われがちなのですが、それは決して酔いしれているわけではなくて。最大限のパフォーマンスをするためにはそこまでやらないと辿り着けないからなのですが。普通の人よりも振り切れてしまうことで“ナルシスト”認定されてしまうのかな……。 塩沼 一般的にはごく限られた情報量しか伝わらないので、実際と全然違うイメージに受け取られてしまう場合もありますよね。 羽生 いや〜、ナルシスト疑惑に関しては声を大にして反論したいんです（苦笑）。 塩沼 では、ここではっきりお伝えしましょう。私も、1300年に2人しか成功していない千日回峰行をやり遂げるなんて、どんなに特別な人なんだろうと思われがちなのですが、「お会いすると普通の方なんですね」と言われることも多くて。それがまた嬉しいんです。 100歳の現役お坊さんと100歳の現役スケーター 羽生 でも僕は、小さい頃から変な子だった自覚はあるんですけどね。小学5年生で千日回峰行をやろうと決意するなんて、阿闍梨さんもやっぱり相当変な子ですよ（笑）。もしもですが、千日回峰行の番組を初めて見た当時に戻ったとしたら、また同じ決意をされますか？ 塩沼 （即答で）はい。生まれ変わっても絶対にまた同じ道を歩きますね。 羽生 すごいですね。僕はできたら違う道がいいな。もし輪廻転生があるのだとしたら、この人生はスケートにすべてを捧げられるだけ捧げて、もう完遂した！ くらいまでやり切れたらいいかなと思います。まあ、来世ではアリになっているかもしれませんが（笑）。 塩沼 そんなのアリですか!?（笑）。私は今、朝起きてから夜寝るまで毎日楽しいんですよ。お坊さんって80歳過ぎてからいい仕事をすることが多いのですが、人生は登山だと考えると、それこそ56歳の私なんてまだ2合目付近を歩いているようなもの。命をいただいてからここまで、結構いい精神状態に整えられてきたと感じているので、80歳まではこのまま勉強を重ね、100歳まで最前線でお仕事しようと決めています。 そして、これは私の欲なのですが、今世をまっとうしてあの世に行ったとき、神仏やお師匠さんに「よく頑張ったな」とひと言言われたい。皆さんの幸せの一助になるべく、困難な道を選びながらも挫けずに歩き続けている原動力はそれなんです。羽生さんは、生きる意味、ご自身の役割についてはどうお考えですか？ 羽生 自分が今生きている意味や役割などについては、それこそいろいろ考えます。世のため人のため、とまではいきませんが、誰かのために存在していることが自分の生きる意味なのかなと。そのツールが僕にはたまたまスケートで あり、スケートによって皆さんと繫がることが自分に課された今の役割だと感じています。 塩沼 なるほど。私は80歳までが学びの時期で、100歳までが最前線とお話ししましたが、羽生さんはこれからどうありたいですか？ 羽生 100歳まで最前線ですか。100歳の現役スケーター、すごすぎですよね（笑）。今、僕自身が絶賛変わり中なので、正直、この先が一番想像できない時期ではあり……。自分がぐんぐん変わるとともに、生きている実感を感じているのは確かです。スケートは体を使うものなので、怪我も含めて、いつ何が起きてどこで終わってしまうかはわからないですが、その時々で自分なりの役割を、そこに存在する意味をしっかり感じられるような生き方ができていたらいいなとは思いますね。 塩沼 変化を実感されているのですね。辛いことが起きたら、どう向き合っているのですか？ 羽生 落ちるところまで落ちます。しんどい、辛い、嫌だ、と落ちきってから、「はぁ、頑張るか」と。でも、辛いときがないとその先に希望も見えにくいのではないかとも思うんです。僕は16歳で東日本大震災を経験していることもあり、各被災地に伺う機会が多いのですが、自分の辛さを誰かと比較して「あの人に比べたら自分は辛くない」と我慢される方がすごく多い気がしていて。日本人ならではの美徳ではあるのですが、辛いことは辛いとちゃんと受け止めていいのではないかと、最近思うんですよね。 塩沼 そうですね。辛さを認めて、それを人生の栄養にするしかないんじゃないかな。 羽生 そんな気がします。逆に「私、辛くないから」と言っているうちって次に進む一歩を踏み出す力が弱いのではないか、と思えてしまって。それこそ、ありのままに、ですよね。 辛さを認めることが一歩踏み出す力になる 塩沼 確かに。羽生さんは、辛さをあるがままに受け入れて栄養にできていると思いますか？ 羽生 でも、年々メンタル面が弱くなっている気がしています。これが30歳になるということなのか？ やっぱり10代の頃とは違いますよね（苦笑）。 塩沼 ほんとですか？ 私は56歳になって、ますます強気、前向きになっていますよ（笑）。思わぬ障害やアクシデントに見舞われることもある。そんなとき、私は絶対に受け身にならないよう心がけています。何かが起きたら、逆に上から攻めていく。この辛さを栄養にして乗り越えたら、絶対にまた上に行けると自分を信じて。生きていく上で、その強気さってすごく大事だと思うんです。 羽生 さすがです。凹むときもあるんですか？ 塩沼 凹むことは……ないです（笑）。毎日動き回っているので考え込む時間もなくて。もちろん、失敗や失礼をしたときには深く落ち込みますが、なるべく早く気持ちを整えて全力で埋め合わせをします。常にポジティブなマインドで、いい流れに乗っていきたいと思っています。 羽生 僕もあと20年ほどしたら、凹むことのない境地に達することができるのでしょうか（笑）。今日は、阿闍梨さんと自分への向き合い方、生きるとは？ といったお話をたくさんさせていただきました。不確定な話題が飛び交うSNS時代であり、不安定な世界情勢の今だからこそ、自分は何者か、真実をしっかり見極められているのかということに意識を向けて、自分を見つめるきっかけや考えるヒントがこの対談の中にあれば嬉しいです。1人が変われば周りも変わり、国も変わり、世界も変わっていくと信じて生きていきたいです。 塩沼 おっしゃる通りですね。皆さん、「八風吹けども動ぜず」の心持ちで行きましょう。 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wintek Posted September 21, 2024 Share Posted September 21, 2024 Japanese to English MACHINE Translation, inaccuracies exist. (Some terms were reviewed with the help of bilingual fans and additional notes have been added) 2024.09.30 Source: https://www.kateigaho.com/article/detail/177346?n=1&e=177386 https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0DBZ2S2RJ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title Special Dialogue Ryojun Shionuma, Dai Ajari Yuzuru Hanyu, Professional Figure Skater The Meaning of "Living" (p. 118-131) In celebration of the 800th issue of this magazine, a miraculous special dialogue has come to fruition. The head priest of Jigen-ji Temple in Sendai, Miyagi Prefecture, Dai Ajari Ryojun Shionuma, and legendary skater Yuzuru Hanyu, who has set numerous records and left his mark on the history of world figure skating. Their profound yet light-hearted and witty conversation provided us with a guiding light for our own paths. We bring you their soulful words on topics such as the meaning of life and how to cope with suffering—topics that are especially relevant today. Photography: Tokuyasu Nabeshima Hair & Makeup: Chiho Kowada <MO> (for Hanyu-san) Composition, Interview, and Writing: Yoko Komatsu Yuzuru Hanyu, who visited Jigen-ji Temple for the first time in a while, was guided by Dai Ajari Ryojun Shionuma. With affection, Hanyu-san refers to the Dai Ajari as "Ajari-san." The two, who share the bond of being high school senior and junior, enjoyed a comfortable time together, reflecting their deep mutual understanding. Reveal hidden contents Words of Wisdom from Two Who Have Faced Numerous Hardships The Completion of the Most Difficult Ascetic Practice: The Great Mount Omi Thousand-Day Pilgrimage—Ryojun Shionuma’s Achievements Ryojun Shionuma Born in Sendai City, Miyagi Prefecture in 1968. Head priest of Fukuzōzan Jigenji Temple. Graduated from Tohoku High School. Ordained as a monk at Kimpōzan Temple on Yoshino Mountain in 1987. Completed the Great Mount Omi Thousand-Day Pilgrimage in 1999. Completed the Shimu practices and the 8,000-page Great Goma Ceremony. Established Jigenji Temple in Akiu, Sendai City, his hometown, in 2003. Author of numerous books. "Kurashi no Shio Kagen" published by this company in June 2024. Olympic Champion Twice, Four-Time Grand Prix Final Champion—Yuzuru Hanyu Yuzuru Hanyu Born in Sendai City, Miyagi Prefecture in 1994. Professional figure skater. Graduated from Tohoku High School and Waseda University. Gold medallist at the Sochi 2014 and PyeongChang 2018 Winter Olympics. His consecutive victories were the first in 66 years. Scheduled to perform in the "Noto Peninsula Reconstruction Support Charity Performance ~Challenge Challenge~.(*)" on September 15, 2024, with no audience and live-streamed. (*) When translated, the name of the charity performance comes as “Challenge Challenge” because the name contains the kanji 挑戦 (Chousen) and the katakana チャレンジ (Charenji). Both terms mean “challenge.” Facing Life with the Mindset of "Even as the Eight Winds Blow, I Remain Unmoved" Words of wisdom that become hints for living and empower the soul Both Dai Ajari and Yuzuru decided on their paths at a young age. Shionuma Dai-Ajari (henceforth, Shionuma): I'm happy to welcome you back to Jigen-ji Temple, Yuzuru-san. Hanyu-san (henceforth, Hanyu): I was also looking forward to meeting you again. I'm glad to see you’re doing well. Shionuma: Today, we’re going to talk about important matters like "What is the meaning of life?" and "What is life itself?" But when did you start to have the desire to become the Yuzuru Hanyu we see today? Hanyu: I started skating when I was 4, and right away I said, "I will win an Olympic gold medal." I didn’t say I wanted to; I said I would. It was already predetermined in my mind. I was a weird kid (laughs). Shionuma: Speaking of weird kids, may I share my story as well? (laughs) I saw a documentary about the 1000-day Kaihōgyō (mountain ascetic training) on TV, and in fifth grade, I was filled with admiration, thinking, "I want to do that." I carried that desire all the way through, and after graduating high school, I went to train at Kimpusen-ji Temple in Yoshino Mountain. Even during my time as a novice, I was already certain that I would undoubtedly complete the 1000-day Kaihōgyō. I was a weird kid too, right? (laughs) Hanyu: But when you actually started doing it, wasn’t it incredibly tough? Shionuma: Oh, it was really tough. Hanyu: It was the same for me. The path I had imagined when I was young turned out to be completely different. I had this image that I’d win the gold medal with ease, but it was really hard. Why do people tend to choose the more painful path? (laughs) Shionuma: I guess it’s because we seek "truth." When you face yourself in a stoic way, unnecessary things fall away, and your heart becomes clear. For us, too, there are benchmarks, like 1000 days or walking 48 kilometers a day, but they are ultimately just the necessary training period for inner refinement. This is the key difference between adventurers or explorers, who are drawn to and face the natural world, and monks like us. Hanyu: So, it's about pushing yourself to refine your inner self. When I do physical or strength training, I feel like that’s similar to spiritual training. Since I became a professional figure skater and started thinking more deeply about "expression," I’ve spent much more time reflecting on myself. I realized that unless I understand who I am and what life is, I can’t create the kind of expression I envision. Sometimes, unless you push yourself to the point where there’s no escape, you don’t reach a new level of understanding, do you? “I want to study until I'm 80, and be on the front lines until I'm 100.” Ryojun Shionuma, Dai Ajari Shionuma: That’s true. But in an ideal world, if you weren’t doing work that required pushing yourself, like rigorous training or performing, it might actually be better to live without being forced into difficult situations (laughs). Hanyu: You’re right. However, like when you’re a student with deadlines for tests or homework, I feel like it’s precisely because you’re pressured that you develop focus and concentration. Shionuma: Facing yourself in situations where you’re under pressure might indeed help you discover new perspectives or reach new realizations. Hanyu: For me, I’ve always felt that if I’m not challenging myself, I’m not being true to who I am. That’s why I’ve incorporated high-difficulty elements into my programs, even though the success rate was only 10% or 20%, and competed using them. Looking back on why I became so passionate about skating, I think it was because I enjoyed facing the challenges of something outside the ordinary. Shionuma: Once you’ve tasted success within those difficult challenges, it must be hard to stop. Hanyu: But the truth is, even now, I often dream about failing. Recently, I had a dream about a competition. I hadn’t even changed into my costume or put on my skates, even though the start time had already passed. I was panicking (laughs). Shionuma: Do you ever dream about your successes? Hanyu: Not really, no. However, I did dream about landing the quadruple Axel before I actually succeeded. In the dream, I landed it and thought, "This is a dream, but the feeling is so real. I should remember this." As I started to wake up, I thought, "Let’s use this dream and practice the quadruple Axel in my mind" (laughs). Do you have dreams about your training, Ajari-san? Shionuma: I still occasionally dream about walking in the mountains. Even now, I don’t feel like my 1000-day Kaihōgyō has ended. Every day feels like the 1000th day. I even stopped writing my training journal after the 999th day. I suppose, deep down, the training continues in my heart. Reaching New Levels of Understanding by Writing a Journal Hanyu: Did you write in your journal every day? Shionuma: Yes, I wrote in it without missing a single day, all the way to the 999th day. Before starting the 1000-day Kaihōgyō, I would put a white circle in the journal on days when I felt determined, like, "Let’s go! No matter what pressures or stress come my way, I won’t let them beat me." On days when I felt, "I don’t really want to go today..." I would mark it with a black circle. But I never once felt negative during the training, so every single day was marked with a white circle. That’s something that still gives me confidence to this day. Hanyu: That’s amazing. Do you think writing in the journal helped support your mental strength and motivate you to keep going the next day, or made you think, "I have to change myself"? Shionuma: That could be part of it. Also, I wrote every day to ensure I wouldn’t forget the thoughts and realizations I had at the time. Hanyu: Ajari-san, you’re just like an athlete! (laughs) My skating coach told me to write down the sensation of landing a jump while it was still fresh in my mind, so I started keeping a journal when I was very young. It became a habit to write in my skating notebook, and I still jot down insights even now. Shionuma: I see. The fact that people around the world resonate with your words when you express yourself probably stems from this accumulation of reflections. Do you tend to write in your skating journal when you’re feeling positive? Hanyu: I try to accept and acknowledge my negative feelings as well, without ignoring them. Instead of directing negative emotions toward others, I write everything in my skating notebook. Sometimes I’d write it all out, tear it up, and throw it away—done! I think of it as throwing away as many troubles as there are pages in the notebook I’ve torn up (laughs). Shionuma: That’s a great method. In Buddhism, the highest form of enlightenment is about letting go of attachments. The Zen saying "Even as the eight winds blow, I remain unmoved" is something that’s resonating deeply with me right now. The "eight winds" (gain, loss, defamation, fame, praise, blame, suffering, and pleasure) are events that stir the human heart(*). Of course, there are moments when we react and get shaken. The important thing is not to remain attached to those feelings. The teaching is that by letting go of everything (放下, hōge—meaning to cast away or let go completely), we can encounter new levels of understanding. What you’ve been doing reflects that idea perfectly. I should start doing it that way from now on. I would end up with a huge amount of writing, and I would wonder “I write and throw away so much in one day?” Hanyu: No way that would happen (laughs). (*) The eight winds symbolize the ups and downs of life—positive and negative events that can easily sway a person’s heart and mind. "Even as the eight winds blow, I remain unmoved" encourages the practice of non-attachment, which is central in both Zen and broader Buddhist philosophy. It teaches that, despite the inevitable changes and challenges we face in life—whether it’s success, failure, suffering, or joy—we should strive to keep our hearts and minds steady, not allowing ourselves to be emotionally swayed (i.e. maintain equanimity and inner peace). Concentration That Emerges Only in Extreme Situations Shionuma: By the way, I had the chance to watch your solo performance "ICE STORY 2023 'GIFT'" at Tokyo Dome in February 2023, which was the first-ever solo ice show by a skater in that venue. It was incredibly moving. What drives you to deliver such a performance under such extreme conditions? Hanyu: It’s because everyone has expectations of me. Really, that’s all there is to it. Right now, I’m doing these ice shows where I skate for over two hours by myself. I feel like, because I’m pushing myself to my limits—both physically and mentally—I’m able to convey a kind of kindness in my performances, and sometimes even create a destructive atmosphere. There are times when I start to think, "Why am I pushing myself this hard? What’s the point of all this?" But the reactions and energy from the audience when I deliver a performance make me feel so happy and fulfilled. It’s the joy of experiencing that thrill that keeps me going, and that’s really the only reason. Shionuma: I wondered where such power comes from. Hanyu: I feel that if I don’t push myself to that extent, it’s difficult to create a performance that truly moves people. The truth is, I’m not very confident... People say I’m "mentally strong," but I’m actually not, which is why I have to train and prepare thoroughly to withstand the pressure. Recently, I’ve been wondering, "Why do people call me a narcissist?" As a skater, I do look at myself in the mirror often, but it’s not because I enjoy doing it. Even when I’m asked to check photos after a shoot, I don’t feel the need to look at my own face. Shionuma: Oh no, I might be more of a narcissist than you... (laughs). Just earlier, after the photo shoot, I kept saying, "Show me the pictures! Great, great!" (laughs). Hanyu: (laughs) For me, it’s because I lack confidence to begin with, that I can’t do things halfway. For example, when I’m warming up, I often immerse myself in my own world. When people see me passionately lip-syncing during rehearsals without feeling embarrassed, they might think I’m "self-absorbed.(*)" But it’s not that I’m absorbed in myself; it’s just that I need to focus that deeply in order to give my best performance. I may be more intense than most people, which might be why I get labeled as a “narcissist”... Shionuma: It’s true that the public only receives a limited amount of information, so sometimes you can be perceived in ways that are completely different from reality. Hanyu: Yeah, I really want to loudly refute the whole "narcissist" thing (laughs). Shionuma: Well, let’s set the record straight here. People often think I must be some kind of extraordinary person because I completed the 1000-day Kaihōgyō, something only two people in 1300 years have achieved. But when they meet me, they often say, "You’re surprisingly normal!" Hearing that makes me really happy. (*) Literally: "drunk on myself." A 100-year-old monk and a 100-year-old skater Hanyu: But I’ve always known I was a strange kid. Deciding to do the 1000-day Kaihōgyō in the fifth grade? Ajari-san, you must have been a pretty strange kid too (laughs). Just hypothetically, if you went back to when you first saw the show about the 1000-day Kaihōgyō, would you make the same decision again? Shionuma: (Immediately) Yes. Even if I were reborn, I would absolutely walk the same path again. Hanyu: That’s amazing. I think I’d prefer a different path if I could. If reincarnation exists, I’d like to dedicate everything to skating in this life, give it my all until I feel like I’ve completed it fully. "You never know, I might come back as an ant in my next life (laughs)." Shionuma: An ant? Is that even possible?! (laughs) For me, every day is fun from the moment I wake up until I go to bed. Monks often do their best work after turning 60, but if life is like climbing a mountain, I’m only around the second stage at 56. I feel that since receiving this life, I’ve managed to reach a good mental state, so I’ve decided to keep studying until I’m 80 and continue working on the front lines until I’m 100. Also, this is my desire, but when I leave this life and go to the next world, I want God, Buddha, or my masters to say to me, "You did well." The reason I keep walking down this difficult path without giving up is so that I can contribute to others' happiness. What do you think is the meaning of your life, or your role? Hanyu: I’ve definitely thought a lot about the meaning of my life and my role. I wouldn’t go so far as to say "for the sake of the world" or "for the sake of others," but I do think that being there for someone else is the meaning of my life. For me, skating just happens to be the tool that allows me to connect with people, and I feel like my current role is to use that connection. Shionuma: I see. I mentioned earlier that I plan to study until I’m 80 and work until I’m 100, but how do you envision your future? Hanyu: Are you going to be on the front lines until the age of 100? (In my case,) 100-year-old active skater, would be quite extraordinary? (laughs). Right now, I'm in the midst of big changes, so to be honest, at this point I can't imagine what's to come. But as I change rapidly, I can really feel I’m alive. Skating involves using the body, so there’s always the risk of injury, and I don’t know when or where it might come to an end. But I hope I can live in such a way that I can find my role and my reason to live at each point of my life. Shionuma: So you feel like you’re experiencing change. When something difficult happens, how do you deal with it? Hanyu: I fall all the way down. I allow myself to fully feel the hardship, the pain, the dislike, and then, after hitting rock bottom, I say, "Well, I guess I’ll keep going." But I also think that without those difficult moments, it’s hard to see hope on the other side. Having experienced the Great East Japan Earthquake when I was 15 years old, I often visit the affected areas, and I’ve noticed that many people compare their own hardships to others and say, "My suffering isn’t that bad compared to theirs," and just endure it. It’s a virtue that is unique to Japanese people, but lately I’ve been thinking that it’s okay to fully acknowledge that hardships are painful. Shionuma: Yes, you need to acknowledge the hardship and use it as fuel for your life. Hanyu: I agree. If you keep telling yourself, "It’s not that bad," you might not have the strength to take the next step forward. In the end, it’s about being your authentic self, right? The Power of Acknowledging Hardship to Take the Next Step Shionuma: Indeed. Do you think Hanyu-san is able to accept pain as it is and turn it into nourishment? Hanyu: However, I feel like my mental resilience is weakening over the years. Is this what it means to turn 30? It’s certainly different from when I was in my teens (laughs). Shionuma: Really? I’ve become increasingly assertive and positive at the age of 56 (laughs). Even when faced with unexpected obstacles and accidents, I make sure to never take a passive stance. When something happens, I tackle it head-on. I believe that by turning hardship into nourishment and overcoming it, I can rise again. I think having this assertiveness is really important for living. Hanyu: That’s impressive. Do you ever feel down? Shionuma: I don’t feel down... (laughs). I stay so active that I don’t have time to dwell on things. Of course, when I make mistakes or am rude, I deeply regret it, but I quickly get my feelings in order and do my best to make amends. I want to always maintain a positive mindset and keep riding the good flow. Hanyu: I wonder if, in another 20 years, I’ll reach a state where I don’t feel down at all (laughs). Today, I had many discussions with Shionuma-san about how to face oneself and the meaning of life. In this era of uncertain topics and unstable world situations, I hope this conversation provides a chance to reflect on who we are and whether we are discerning the truth. I want to believe that if one person changes, their surroundings change, and in turn, the country and the world will change. Shionuma: Exactly. Let’s all embrace the mindset of "being unmoved by the eight winds." After the Dialogue From Ryojun Shionuma to Yuzuru Hanyu: It had been several years since we last met in person, but from the words you shared, I could clearly see the depth and richness you’ve gained through your various experiences. The weight of what you carry as a rare and exceptional skater is immeasurable, but through this dialogue, I hope that the true Yuzuru Hanyu—your kindness, strength, and sensitivity—can be conveyed and that even one person might find a hint for living a meaningful life. "Strong, gentle, mysteriously beautiful. I watched Hanyu's skating and wrote down my impressions.” From Yuzuru Hanyu to Ryojun Shionuma: I first visited with my teachers from Tohoku High School when I was in my teens. You welcomed me with many puns, despite my nervousness at that time. It was the same this time (laughs). Thanks to the sense of security provided by the years of shared growth and change, I was able to talk about many new things. I hope that readers will find words that resonate with their hearts and that this dialogue can offer some comfort. “To Ryojun Shionuma, With the meaning of being here and the meaning of being myself, ‘Living’.” Hanyu Yuzuru Milestones of Dai Ajari Ryojun Shionuma 1968, March 15: Born in Sendai City, Miyagi Prefecture. 1986: Graduated from Tohoku High School. 1987: Ordained at the head temple of Shugendo, Kinpusen-ji Temple on Yoshino Mountain. Entered the Shugendo training hall. 1989: Entered the Shogyo-in Hall at the same temple. 1991: Entered the Daigyo-in Hall. On May 3, began the "Omine 100-Day Mountain Pilgrimage" at Kinpusen-ji Temple in Yoshino, Nara Prefecture. Completed it on August 10. 1992: On May 3, began the "Omine 1000-Day Mountain Pilgrimage." 1999, September 3: Completed the "Omine 1000-Day Mountain Pilgrimage," becoming the second person in the 1300-year history of Kinpusen-ji Temple in Yoshino, Nara Prefecture to do so. 2000, September 28: Completed the "Shimu Practice," a 9-day ordeal where one neither eats, drinks, sleeps, nor lies down, while chanting 200,000 mantras. 2003: Established Jigen-ji Temple in Akiu, Sendai City, and became its head priest. 2006: Completed the "8,000-Sheet Great Goma Ceremony," where, after fasting from grains and salt for 100 days, thousands of goma sticks are burned continuously for a day and night while praying for the happiness of people. 2021: Established the Ryojun Shionuma Dai Ajari Foundation. Yuzuru Hanyu's Milestones 1994, December 7: Born in Sendai City, Miyagi Prefecture. Began skating at age 4. 2004/05 Season: Made his debut in the Japan Novice Championships (Class B) and won. Also won in the Novice A class at an international competition. His home rink closed due to financial difficulties. 2006/07 Season: His home rink reopened as "Ice Rink Sendai." 2007/08 Season: Won the Japan Novice Championships (Class A). Placed 3rd in the Japan Junior Championships. 2008/09 Season: Won the Japan Junior Championships for the first time. Made his debut at the Japan Championships, placing 8th. 2009/10 Season: Won the Junior Grand Prix Final. Achieved his second consecutive victory at the Japan Junior Championships and won the World Junior Championships. 2010/11 Season: Senior debut. Placed 4th in the Japan Championships and was runner-up at the Four Continents Championships. On March 11, 2011, the Great East Japan Earthquake occurred. 2011/12 Season: Won his first Grand Prix (GP) series event at the Rostelecom Cup. Placed 3rd at the Japan Championships and 3rd at the World Championships in his debut. 2012/13 Season: Changed coaches to Brian Orser and moved to Toronto, Canada. Placed 2nd at the GP Final and won his first Japan Championship. 2013/14 Season: Won his first GP Final and defended his Japan Championship title. Won the gold medal at the Sochi Winter Olympics and became the World Champion for the first time. 2014/15 Season: Won his second consecutive GP Final and his third consecutive Japan Championship. 2015/16 Season: Broke the world record for the highest score at the NHK Trophy in the GP Series. Won his third consecutive GP Final and fourth consecutive Japan Championship. 2016/17 Season: Became the first skater to win four consecutive GP Finals. Won his second World Championship title. 2017/18 Season: Won his second consecutive Olympic gold medal at the PyeongChang Winter Olympics, becoming the first male skater in 66 years to achieve this. 2018/19 Season: Won the GP Series Finland Trophy and Rostelecom Cup. Placed 2nd at the World Championships. 2019/20 Season: Won the GP Series Canada Cup and NHK Trophy. Placed 2nd at the GP Final and the Japan Championships. Won his first Four Continents Championship, becoming the first male skater in history to achieve the "Super Slam" (winning all major titles). The World Championships were canceled due to the COVID-19 pandemic. 2020/21 Season: Selected as the Best Skater at the newly established ISU Skating Awards. Won his 5th Japan Championship after a five-year gap. 2021/22 Season: Won his 6th Japan Championship. Placed 4th at the Beijing Winter Olympics, where his quadruple Axel was officially recognized. July 19, 2022: Announced his transition to being a professional skater. 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yuzurujenn Posted September 23, 2024 Author Share Posted September 23, 2024 *Machine translation. Inaccuracies exist* 2024.08.30 Source: https://www.kateigaho.com/article/detail/177647 Alternative source (CN): https://weibo.com/5437806211/Ov6fSqbGO "Kateigaho" 800th commemorative issue · Ryojun Shionuma x Yuzuru Hanyu: The Meaning of Life "Unmoved by the eight winds, sitting upright on the purple lotus - The words of the soul that give life the power of enlightenment" serialization In the 800th commemorative issue of this magazine, a miraculous special conversation was realized. Ryojun Shionuma, the abbot of Jigenji Temple in Sendai City, Miyagi Prefecture, and Yuzuru Hanyu, a legendary figure skater who has repeatedly reached the peak of the figure skating world and has engraved his name and left countless milestones in its history. The two of them have always been regarded as the beacon of hope by people, and the profound yet light-hearted communication between them has the power to illuminate our way forward. The meaning of life, the way to accept pain, and other words of the soul that are relevant now will all be conveyed to you in this conversation. Reveal hidden contents [The most difficult pilgrimage, "Omine Thousand Days Trip to the Peak", completed by Ryojun Shionuma. The great ajari Ryojun Shionuma was born in Sendai, Miyagi Prefecture in 1968. He is the abbot of Jigenji Temple. He graduated from Tohoku High School. He became a monk at Kinpusenji Temple on Mount Yoshino in 1987. He completed the Omine Thousand Days Trip to the Peak in 1999. He completed the Four No-Practices* (no food, no water, no sleep, no lying down for nine days straight) and the Great Goma Offering of 8,000 Pieces* (after abstaining from the five grains -rice, barley, wheat, red beans, soybeans, and salt for 100 days, one continues to burn 8,000 goma for 24 hours without eating, drinking, sleeping or lying down). In 2003, he established Jigenji Temple in his hometown of Akiu, Sendai. He has written many books. In June 2004, he published "Kurashi no Shio Kagen" at his own expense.] [Consecutive Olympic gold medallist and four-time Grand Prix Final champion - Yuzuru Hanyu. Yuzuru Hanyu was born in Sendai, Miyagi Prefecture in 1994. He is a professional figure skater. He graduated from Tohoku High School and Waseda University. Gold medallist of the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics and the 2018 PyeongChang Winter Olympics. He is the first male singles athlete to win consecutive Olympic gold medal in 66 years. He is scheduled to appear in the "Noto Peninsula Reconstruction Support Charity Performance: Challenge!" on September 15, 2024 (no audience/live broadcast only).] Precious words woven by two people who have experienced countless hardships. [Dai Ajari and Yuzuru Hanyu, who decided on their current paths at a young age] Dai Ajari Shionuma (hereinafter referred to as Shionuma): I’m happy to welcome Hanyu-san to Jigenji Temple again after a long time. Hanyu-san (hereinafter referred to as Hanyu): I have been looking forward to seeing you again. It's great to see you unchanged. Shionuma: This time, we will discuss important topics such as "What is the meaning of life?" and "What is life?". But when did you start to think about wanting to become the "Yuzuru Hanyu" that you are today? Hanyu: I started skating at the age of four, and right away I was saying, 'I will win a gold medal at the Olympics.' It wasn't just that I wanted to; winning became a predetermined path for me. I was a strange kid (laughs). Shionuma: Speaking of strange kids, can I share my story too? (laughs). I was in fifth grade when I saw a documentary about the "Thousand Days Journey to the Peak" on TV and thought, "I want to do that." I held onto that dream, and after graduating high school, I went to Mount Yoshino’s Kinpusen-ji for training. Even though I was still a novice, I was already convinced that I could definitely complete the 1,000-day pilgrimage. I was a strange kid, wasn't I (laughs). Hanyu: But when you actually tried it, wasn’t it extremely tough? Shionuma: Yes, it was very tough. Hanyu: For me, too, the path was completely different from what I had imagined when I was a child. I had a much easier image of “I won a gold medal,” but it was really hard. Why do we humans tend to choose the difficult path? (smiles wryly) Shionuma: Perhaps it’s because we continue to seek “truth.” When we face ourselves stoically, unnecessary things are stripped away, and our hearts become clearer. We also have guidelines like walking 1000 days or 48 kilometres a day, but those are merely training periods necessary for inner growth. This is exactly the difference between adventurers and explorers who are fascinated by nature and ascetics. Hanyu: So, you push yourself for inner growth. When I'm doing physical training or strength training, it might feel somewhat similar to ascetic practice. Since becoming a professional figure skater, I've started to think more deeply about "expression," and I feel like I've been spending more time facing myself. I realised that I couldn't express the way I wanted to unless I really thought about who I am and what life is, and started to form my own core. I think there are some states of being that can only be seen when you are pushed to the point of no escape. Shionuma: That's true. But unless you're engaged in work that requires you to raise your gear and efficiency for training or performance, it's probably better to live a life where you're not under too much pressure (wry smile). Hanyu: That's right. However, I feel that being pressured with deadlines, such as tests and homework when you're a student, can help you develop concentration. Shionuma: The experience of facing oneself when pushed to the limit may indeed be effective for awakening new insights and states of being. Hanyu: I felt that I wasn’t truly myself unless I kept challenging myself, so I incorporated difficult moves with a success rate of 10% or 20% into my competitions. When I think back on why I got into skating, I believe it was because I could confront challenges within an extraordinary experience. Shionuma: Once you experience success in the face of extreme difficulties, you can’t stop trying. Hanyu: But to be honest, I still have dreams about failure. Recently I had a dream about a competition, and even though the start time had passed, I still hadn't put on my costume or skates. I was in a panic (wry smile). Shionuma: Do you not have dreams about success? Hanyu: I don’t have them often. But I did have a dream about successfully jumping a quadruple axel before. I remember thinking, “I did it now, but this is a dream. However, this feeling is so real, I should remember it... Oh, I’m starting to wake up, so I’ll do some image training for the quadruple axel once I’m up.” I approached it with that kind of enthusiasm, using the dream to its fullest. (laughs) How about you, Ajari-san? Do you dream of your training? Shionuma: I still sometimes dream about walking in the mountains. I don't feel like the 1000-day pilgrimage has ended; each day feels like the 1000th day. In fact, I only wrote in my journal during my training up to the 999th day. I guess my training is still continuing somewhere in my heart. [The state of mind I discovered and reached through writing in my diary] Hanyu: Did you write in your diary every day? Shionuma: Yes. I wrote every day until the 999th day without missing a single day. Before I started my 1000-day pilgrimage, I decided to write a white circle in my journal on days when I went to training with the mindset of "Let’s go!" despite any pressure or stress, and a black circle on days when I felt, "I don’t want to go today..." But there was not a single day when I went to the training with a negative feeling. They were all white circles. That’s what still gives me confidence today. Hanyu: That's amazing. Did writing down your thoughts give you the mental support of 'Let's do it again tomorrow!' or make you think that you had to change yourself? Shionuma: That might be part of it. I also wrote down the feelings and realisations I had at the time every day so that I wouldn't forget them. Hanyu: Ajari-san, I’m the same. You're completely an athlete (laughs). My skating coach told me, "Write down in your notebook on the same day how it felt to be able to jump if you did it this way," so I've been writing since I was little. I've had the habit of writing things down in my skating notebook since I was young, so I still write down things I notice. Shionuma: I see. The reason your words, which express your inner thoughts, resonate with people all over the world is due to that accumulation. When you write in your skating notebook, do you often write with a positive mindset? Hanyu: I think I should accept and acknowledge all negativity as negativity. It's not good to vent your negative feelings on others, so I write everything in my skating notebook. I write it, tear it up, throw it away, and that's it! That kind of pattern. I think I've thrown away as many worries as the number of pages in the notebook I tore up (laughs). Shionuma: That's a good method. In Buddhism, the greatest enlightenment is to let go of attachments. The Zen phrase "Eight winds blow but I remain unmoved" really resonates with me right now. When the eight winds (prosperity, decline, disgrace, honour, praise, censure, suffering, and pleasure) that disturb our minds come, our minds are inevitably shaken. Of course, we may react and become disturbed temporarily. The important thing is not to be caught up in that for too long. The teaching is that the way humans should aim for in life is to let go (throw away, discard) everything and encounter a new state of being, and that is exactly what Hanyu has been doing. I will do it that way from now on too. I may end up writing a huge amount, thinking, "Am I really writing and throwing away all this in one day?" (laughs). Hanyu: No way (laughs). [Concentration that can only be achieved in extreme situations] Shionuma: By the way, I was moved when I saw your solo performance "ICE STORY 2023 "GIFT"" held at the Tokyo Dome in February 2023, the first time in the history of skaters to do so. What is the driving force that allows you to perform in such extreme situations? Hanyu: Because everyone has high expectations of me. That's the only reason. I'm currently putting on an ice show where I'm the only skater for over two hours, and it's because I'm pushed to the limit and have my physical and mental strength worn down that my performance can be filled with tenderness, or conversely, even create a bit of a destructive atmosphere. There are times when I find myself thinking, "Why am I trying so hard? What am I doing this for?" But the reactions and energy of the audience when I deliver my performance is really enjoyable and makes me happy. I do it because I want to experience that pleasure. Shionuma: I wondered what this power is. Hanyu: If I don't do that much, I can't perform in a way that moves people's hearts. To begin with, I don't have much confidence... Everyone says I'm "mentally strong," but it's precisely because I'm not strong that I have to practice and prepare a lot to be able to endure. Also, I was thinking recently, "Why am I called a narcissist?" As a skater, I have many opportunities to look in the mirror, but it's not like I like looking at it. Even when I'm asked to check the photos during a shoot, I don't really think I need to check my own face. Shionuma: That's bad. Maybe I'm the narcissist... When my photo was taken just now, I said, "Show me the photo! It's good, it's good" (laughs). Hanyu: Ahahah (laughs). I'm not confident to begin with, so I can't do things half-heartedly. For example, when I'm warming up, I often concentrate so much that I'm immersed in my own world. People tend to think that I'm "intoxicated with myself" because I'm not embarrassed when they see me lip-syncing enthusiastically, but it's not that I'm self-absorbed. I have to go that far to perform at my best. Maybe I'm labeled a narcissist because I go all out more than the average person... Shionuma: In general, people only have access to a very limited amount of information, which can lead to an image that is perceived as completely different from reality. Hanyu: Well~ I want to loudly refute the allegations that I’m a narcissist (smiles wryly) Shionuma: Let me make it clear here. People tend to think that I must be a very special person for having completed the 1000-day pilgrimage, which only two people have succeeded in over 1300 years. However, I'm often told, 'When I meet you, you're just an ordinary person.' This makes me very happy. [100-year-old active monk + 100-year-old active skater] Hanyu: But I’ve been aware that I was a strange kid since I was little. Ajari-san must have been quite a strange kid too, deciding to do the 1000-day pilgrimage in fifth grade (laughs). If you could go back to the time when you first saw the 1000-day pilgrimage program, would you make the same decision again? Shionuma: (answers immediately) Yes. Even if I were reborn, I will definitely embark on the same path again. Hanyu: That’s amazing. I’d probably choose to take a different path if possible. If there is reincarnation, I would like to devote everything I can to skating in this life and complete it to the point where I feel like I've accomplished everything! Well, maybe I’ll be an ant in my next life (laughs). Shionuma: Seriously, ant?! (laughs)! Right now, I enjoy every day from the time I wake up in the morning until I go to bed at night. Monks often do great work after they turn 80, but if you think of life as a mountain climb, then at 56 years old I'm still only at the second station. Since I was given this life, I feel I've been able to maintain a pretty good mental state, so I’ve decided to continue studying until I'm 80 and to keep working on the front lines until I’m 100. And, this is just my own desire, but when I complete this life and move on to the next world, I want the gods, Buddha, and my teachers to say to me, 'You did well.' This is what motivates me to keep walking the difficult path I have chosen without giving up, in order to contribute to everyone's happiness. Hanyu-san, what are your thoughts on the meaning of life and your own role? Hanyu: I think a lot about the meaning and role of my life. I don't go so far as to say it's for the sake of the world or for others, but I think the meaning of my life is to exist for someone. For me, that tool happens to be skating, and I feel that my current role is to connect with everyone through it. Shionuma: I see. I said that I want to learn until I'm 80 and continue to work at the front line until I'm 100, but what do you want to do from now on, Hanyu-san? Hanyu: Working on the front lines until 100? A 100-year-old active skater is amazing, isn’t it? (laughs) Right now, I’m in the midst of a transformation myself, so to be honest, this is the most unpredictable time for me... I can definitely feel the reality of living as I change rapidly. Since skating is a physical activity, I can’t predict when something might happen, including injuries, or how it might all end. However, I hope to live in a way that allows me to truly feel my own role and the meaning of my existence in each moment. Shionuma: You’re experiencing change, I see. When difficult things happen, how do you face them? Hanyu: I would let myself fall to the lowest point. After feeling exhausted, pained, and frustrated, I’ll then think, "Ah, let’s try my best." But I also think that without these difficult moments, it would have been hard to see hope for the future. Having experienced the Great East Japan Earthquake at 16, I’ve had many opportunities to visit affected areas, and I feel that many people compare their own pain to that of others and endure it by thinking, 'Compared to them, I'm not suffering as much.' While this is a virtue unique to the Japanese, I've been thinking lately that it’s okay to accept that pain is pain. Shionuma: That's right. I think the only thing we can do is to acknowledge the pain and turn it into sustenance for moving forward. Hanyu: I think so too. On the contrary, if you always say, "I’m not suffering," you may not have the strength to take the next step. That’s just the way it is, isn’t it? [Acknowledging the pain gives you the strength to take the next step] Shionuma: That’s true. Do you think you can accept your pain as it is and turn it into nourishment? Hanyu: But I feel like my mental state is getting weaker every year. Is this what turning 30 feels like? It’s definitely different from my teenage years (wry smile). Shionuma: Really? I’ve become more confident and positive now that I’m 56 (laughs). Sometimes unexpected obstacles or accidents occur. During those times, I make sure not to be passive. When something happens, I try to tackle it head-on. I believe that if I can overcome this pain and turn it into nourishment, I can definitely rise again. I think that kind of confidence is very important in life. Hanyu: Impressive. Do you ever feel down? Shionuma: I don’t feel down… (laughs) I’m moving around so much every day that I hardly have time to dwell on things. Of course, I feel deeply upset when I make mistakes or act inappropriately, but I try to quickly regain my composure and make amends. I want to maintain a positive mindset and stay on track. Hanyu: I wonder if in another 20 years I’ll be able to reach a state where I’ll never feel down (laughs). Today, I had a lot of discussion with Ajari-san about how to face oneself and what it means to live. In this age of social media, where uncertain topics abound, and given the unstable global situation, I hope this conversation provides a chance to reflect on ourselves and offers insights to think about who we are and whether we can clearly discern the truth. I want to live with the belief that if one person changes, the people around them will change, the country will change, and the world will change. Shionuma: Just as you said. Everyone, let's proceed with the mindset of "unmoved by the eight winds." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Reflecting deeply about how to express (this issue) is also a consideration of the meaning of life." - Yuzuru Hanyu "Still learning at the age of 80, still at the forefront at the age of 100." - Ryojun Shionuma "I write down the negatives in a notebook and then tear it up; the number of pages torn represents the worries discarded." - Yuzuru Hanyu "Suffering can come to anyone, the only thing you can do is to accept it and turn it into sustenance for moving forward.” - Ryojun Shionuma [End of the conversation] [Message to the other party] Dai Ajari Shionuma to Yuzuru Hanyu: [Strong and gentle, mysterious and beautiful] “Although we haven’t met for many years, from his words, I can clearly sense that he has accumulated a wealth of experience and depth in his life. As a rare figure skater, the weight he carries on his shoulders is immeasurable, and I sincerely hope that this conversation can show the truest Yuzuru Hanyu, and convey his unique charisma that combines gentleness, resilience, and sensitivity. I sincerely hope that more people can gain inspiration about life from this, even if it is just one more person. Yuzuru Hanyu to Dai Ajari Shionuma: [The meaning of existing here, the meaning of being yourself is ‘life’] “I came to visit with a teacher from Tohoku High School when I was a teenager. I was a little nervous when I first arrived, but Dai Ajari greeted me with a series of cold jokes, and it was the same this time (laughs). Sharing the significant growth and changes I’ve experienced over the years with him has been very reassuring, so we discussed many topics I had never talked about before. For those who read this conversation, I would be very happy if you could find some words that touch your heart and brings us closer together. 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