KendallKlaire

I agree that the 2022 Olympics have a great storyline with the Yuzu vs. Nathan plot, it's what the media craves (turning athletes into characters of overdramatized plot). Although we do not know if Yuzu will be going to Olympics, I think it would be very surprising if he is not chosen as the flagbearer (though certainly they may choose an older veteran). Yuzu doesn't seem as determined to be going to the 2022 Olympics as he did for 2018. His goal is the 4A, if he goes to the Olympics he doesn't seem that interested in defending his gold. Which is why it is going to be so annoying to watch how NBC will narrate the mens event. They will make it the Nathan show. I don't think they will be making any sort of case for Yuzu this time because he's lost to Nathan in every matchup since the last Olympics. In addition, Yuzu has lost to his successor (Yuma) already so they're probably going to treat Yuzu more like a has-been (unless he lands the 4A prior to the Olympics). NBC will not care if Yuzu was injured or if the judging was suspect. I really don't think the IOC or ISU will care about how judging is perceived. If the media hypes up the Nathan against Yuzu, the non-skating fans will believe it. When I was in graduate school and talking about figure skating, they were absolutely shocked when I said that I did not think Nathan was the best. I do not even think they had heard of Yuzu (and I was in school during the 2018 Olympics). Watching NBC's coverage of the Olympics in 2018 and even now, it's honestly gross how they hype up the frontrunners so much. I do not blame Simone whatsoever at her decision to step back during these Olympics - I felt like it was quite dehumanizing how they simply referred to her as the GOAT all the time. In any case, the IOC and ISU will not care about how figure skating judging is perceived. They will just think the audience will believe the narrative that is fed to them and in 2022's case the most prominent narrative will be that Nathan is better than Yuzu and will stop him from a third gold.

As sad as it is, a scripted video apology is as good as it gets for figure skating apologies...As was brought up either here or on Twitter, Evan L. just claimed his Twitter was hacked when he said that horribly homophobic thing about JW. What just makes the whole situation disappointing is that Nathan, the 3 TIME WORLD CHAMPION, is supposed to be the best of figure skating (and certainly the best for American skating). But the fact he rambled on all these things as a 23 year old is just such a let down. As a 23 year old Yuzu had his second gold medal and never had a media flub as far as I know. I feel bad for the fans that were let down by Nathan. All hail the American icon Amber Glenn!

Yeah I think the beginning of his answer was just a complete misfire...even worse by the fact that I do not think the interviewers even said the words "gay" or "homosexual" in their question (correct me if I'm wrong). Like I said, I think Nathan just completely knee jerked and his answer came off as "macho" combative rather than what we would hope to be a progressive answer from a 3 TIME WORLD CHAMPION. Still, I am seeing some pretty nasty things being said about Nathan on Twitter (without mentioning him by name). I don't think he deserves that. It was a dumb, ignorant answer to be sure and definitely comes off as anti-feminine which is not good. But I think he was trying to match the "vibe" of the interviewers as I think most young "dude-bro" guys would (I'd call Nathan a dude bro for sure). The interviewers are clearly not interested in figure skating and Nathan was trying to swat down any connotations that he was gay or feminine in part over fear they would think less of him. His answer is disappointing as I thought he was more "woke" than that. I honestly thought Nathan was a decent dude (and I still do for the most part) but this is not going to reflect well on his character and what he really thinks of figure skating. I am very tired of the idea that skaters skating to more "modern" pop music is more exciting to watch and "groundbreaking". Have you seen Yuzu's Chopin performance at the Olympics? People were screaming over Chopin! It's not really about the music, it's about the performer. I know that Jimmy Ma's Turn Down for What routine got a lot of attention, but at the end of the day he got 10th place and figure skating is not any more popular. In order for figure skating to have a future it needs to embrace it's importance for LGBTQ athletes and make people realize that it's perfectly okay to embrace your feminine side. I think that is part of the reason why Yuzu is so popular. He embraces femininity, I'd argue his performances are often androgynous and he's remained successful for so long. The sooner the American (and other) media and ISU realize that the better.

I posted about Nathan's interview "flub" in the figure skating reddit, but I'll try to paraphrase my response. I haven't watched the interview that he did but from what I understand the interviewers weren't that interested in skating and Nathan was probably trying to vibe with them. That's probably why his answer was really badly worded and awkward. Regardless, his knee jerk answer/response is VERY reminiscent of American press coverage of skating in the early 2000s of Johnny versus Evan (favored to Evan because he's heterosexual and masculine so figure skating is NOT a gay sport). It's really disappointing that this mindset is still very pronounced, especially coming from Nathan. There's not really that many openly LGBTQ competing skaters so the fact that he says it's "dominated" by them is a very odd choice of words. I really hoped we were moving past this idea that traditional masculine = real sport. Blending "masculinity" with "femininity" is the true challenge of figure skating and it should be celebrated.

I absolutely don't want the opening ceremonies and disappointment about no Yuzu appearance to spill into negative statements about Naomi. As far as I know, no one I've seen has said anything negative about her, only questioned the decision to make her the final torch runner. Sadly, everything bad about the IOC has made everyone a cynic. It is untraditional to have a first time Olympian to light the cauldron, usually the host nation has an Olympic veteran which is where the questions come in. Naomi is certainly a worthy one to light the cauldron when we're talking about themes of the future and of hopes of peaceful diversity. But I'm not sure if that was conveyed clearly...Because of that I think that's where a lot of the skepticism derives. For all we know, Yuzuru may never have been asked to be part of the ceremonies and he probably skipped the torch running portion due to the pandemic and his health.

I also don't see any Fanyus on my Twitter feed attacking Naomi. More of the confusion and frustration of the opening ceremonies is definitely directed toward the organizers and the IOC. The JOC and opening ceremonies directors changed hands so many times over the course of the last few years (even in the last week!) Wasn't one of the musical acts or music directors dropped after controversy emerged a few days ago?? I really feel bad for Japan. They could have put on a show rivaling Beijing, but amidst the pandemic, corruption, and controversy there was really nothing they could salvage. It makes it feel like Naomi (who I have immense respect for) was chosen as damage control. She is without any doubt the most high profile Japanese athlete competing at this Olympics and I think having her light the cauldron was appropriate, but I almost feel it was a cop out in having a high profile athlete be the final torch runner than keeping the theme of recovery (if that was still the theme). I think with all the bad press the IOC and JOC wanted to have a high profile (first time Olympian) upstage it all. I never thought Yuzu would be the one to actually light the cauldron. That just wouldn't make sense. He's a WINTER athlete and he would never accept that honor in place of a summer athlete. I thought they may have gone for a Japanese Olympic veteran like Kohei Uchimura for example or ten year old children symbolizing the 10 years since 2011. Anyways, I always believe IF he was at the opening ceremony he would hand off the torch to the final runner. Perhaps he'll have a place at the closing ceremony? Summer handing off the torch to winter?

It certainly screams Haru Yo Koi... I was seeing some Japanese fans get quite upset with Vincent for obviously "borrowing" from Yuzu and using Chinese music instead. I am neither Japanese nor Chinese so I can't really join in the conversation there, but it is not the first time Vincent has taken after Yuzu with something (he did attempt a Romeo and Juliet program before it was axed in favor of Moulin Rouge I believe...) Vincent is hardly my favorite skater for various reasons, but it feels like he has to take after other skaters rather than build his own identity. From interviews it seems his mom is quite overbearing and nagged him for not being "more like Nathan". I do feel bad for him if that's the case, but he's a grown man now and he needs to step up. Being like Nathan has not helped him at all (Worlds 2021?). He lacks the great jumping skills of Nathan and the performance skills of Yuzu. I remember listening to him being interviewed on Ice Talk a couple years ago and he was quite defensive over his under or pre-rotation problems he had (and still has). His interview really didn't make me like him (though I know he was still just a teen at the time). If anything Vincent makes me like Nathan a lot more.

Perhaps this is shallow of me but I'm going to be REALLY curious how the crowd at SCI compares to 2019. I know the ladies competition is stacked which is why it may draw a crowd, but the men? I wonder how many people are willing to fly to Canada to watch SCI in person without Yuzu there...

I'm actually very surprised Yuzu's not doing SCI, but that probably has something to do with travel proximity? Nathan's obviously closer to Canada, but does that mean Yuzu's not returning to Toronto? But him going to NHK and COR make perfect sense. I still wish he went to the COC to try out the waters before the Olympics...I do hope that Yuzu does withdraw from the GPF (if he makes it in of course) so he would have time to properly prepare for Nationals and the Olympics

Although the first is probably what Yuzu (and most fans) are pulling for, I actually don't think the second one is that bad either and is probably the most realistic. Nathan going for Skate America is a no brainer and since he favors IDF as well, I don't think the JSF cares enough about IDF to send either Yuma or Yuzu there. The toss-up comes between Yuma and Yuzu because there are probably going to be multiple factors at play (skater's choice, the federation's choice, and perhaps even the host country federation's choice). Yuma is the new up-and-comer and the JSF is going to be pushing him to replace Yuzu as their future star so if he is selected for the NHK I believe that agenda will be extremely clear. However, Yuzu is still the one that draws a crowd and if he is selected for the NHK the JSF and ISU may just concede they need Yuzu to make money. I think that would also be why Yuzu may be selected for the COR. Since skating in Russia is still quite big, Yuzu could draw in an even bigger crowd than one they may get from just the ladies event. Plus, Yuzu is very popular in Russia so the RusFed may want Yuzu as well. Sucks it's so close to the GPF, but if Yuzu does want to strategize and save himself for Nationals for an Olympic spot I could see him withdrawing from the GPF. The reasoning for Yuzu going to the COR is the same he could go to SCI or COC to be honest. Yuzu is popular, draws in crowds, makes the federations money. But the ISU and even the IOC may encourage Yuzu to attend the COC because the Olympics will be in Beijing and he could generate some excitement and publicity for it. It may also be good if he can skate in China again and have some closure from the last time he participated in the COC before the Olympic Games. So really, apart from Skate America and IDF, I think Yuzu could go to any event. I personally would hope for COC and COR as weird as that sounds...

Ah but don't you know that Yuzu was copying Nathan with LMEY?? *insert eyeroll here* Seriously though, I get so tired of when people say that Yuzu's upbeat, rocker programs are copying Nathan, just because Nathan had his Rocketman program. Yuzu has been doing these programs since before these younger guys were on the senior circuit. I also have to say it enrages me when people say Yuzu always does the same programs. With his piano programs he uses different pieces and adds different choreography every freaking time. It's better than when "Western" skaters (Americans and Russians mostly) skate to acoustic versions of pop songs over and over (even if the song is different). Moreover, with his Japanese programs, he skates to music from Japanese composers, all of the music sounds extremely different (Seimei sounds nothing like Joe Hisashi) and he tells different stories with each. I do get tired of when non-Japanese skaters skate to Memoirs of a Geisha because they are inspired by Japanese culture and they get praised for doing so, yet Memoirs is a soundtrack made by an American for a movie based on a book by an American man (he fabricated many details of it for a white audience which horrified the actual Japanese geisha he interviewed for the project). Rant over, I am excited to see what Yuzu is hinting for his short program. He seems very excited for it, so it's either something very quiet and beautiful and lots of transitions or if it's going to be something fast and wild ala Let's Go Crazy.

I also love the optimism of the original opinion, but I share the view of Neenah... Recently I believe Martina(?) made a very in-depth spread sheet averaging PCs of top male skaters of the last 10 years and it was noted that NC's skating skills are already averaging above Patrick Chan in his total senior career which is absolutely ridiculous. It seems to me that in 2018 and the seasons afterward, there has been a weird push by the judges (probably along with federations) to bump up the scores of upcoming male skaters. Skaters who moved up to the senior level in 2017 or 2018 and beyond. It's crazy to me that anyone would be coming close to Yuzu when it comes to skating skills, transitions, and interpretation but the judges have made it seem that these young guys are in the same league. I'm also not trying to attack Nathan or Vincent here, but they are benefiting the most off the new system and the push to get an American on the podium. I actually wouldn't mind if Nathan did win the gold in 2022 since I feel his attitude towards skating has improved so much since 2018. What I do mind is that his PCs (and others) are getting shot up because judges confuse jumping quads with skating skills that are getting left behind. I really don't know what to make of it. The ISU are crazy if they think jumping quads is going to draw an audience like they did in 90s. It's about the skaters themselves and sadly Nathan just doesn't have the pull that Yuzuru Hanyu has. They're in for a nasty awakening once Yuzu retires.

Going off topic (or wrong forum?) But does anyone know any good figure skating podcasts? I used to listen to IceTalk which I actually thought was pretty good and fair (as far as an American podcast goes). Jackie and Nick were pretty decent hosts and they got a lot of good guest skaters on the podcast. But now both of them are gone and replaced by Mirai Nagasu and Tara Wellman(A sports reporter?) who are not nearly as fair or good. Yesterday, in a fit of boredom, I rediscovered the podcast with the new hosts and tried to listen to the episode where they discussed the 2020 Japanese Nationals and I could not make it more than 5 minutes. They talked about how Nathan is much more exciting skater whereas Yuzu is a predictable skater (why they had to mention Nathan in an episode about Japanese nationals is beyond me). Then they kept mentioning about how Yuzu "missed" his spin in his short program. Um no? He did the spin, but the judges invalidated it for unclear reasons. Say what you will about Jackie and Nick, but they would have at least got that right. Anyway, I want to find a good podcast with not so terrible hosts. Unfortunately it's very hard to find something that isn't so nationally biased...

Honestly an upgraded Otonal, I think, would be his best bet to take command of the short program. If he jumps a 4Lo or even (dare I say) a 4A in the short program he could easily win the SP portion of any competition. Though because even with his 2019 version, he was inconsistent I do not think this is likely... (Plus: I do not want him to skate a program tribute to Johnny Weir) Personally I would love if he brought back Let's Go Crazy for the Olympic season. That program is so fast! I think there is so much speed and excitement in that program, Yuzu would have audiences eating out of the palm of his hand. Plus, with all that speed, it could build up proper momentum for a 4A...(though him planning a 4A in a SP is EXTREMELY risky) In the long shot he brought this program back I would hope he'd change the costume (I'm tired of hearing all the jokes about it, sorry!) I don't see him keeping LMEY to next season. Last season was about uplifting people during a hard time, next season it's back to competing to win. If I wanted to get my dream, I'd want Yuzu to do two Japanese themed programs for the SP and FS. He can keep his current long (I believe he will) but could use a softer themed short program like Hope and Legacy. But whatever Yuzu wants to do is what Yuzu is going to do

I completely understand that and agree, however, I am thinking of how Aljona's switch to represent the USA professionally just seems a bit... I don't know, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth as a fan. After Pyeongchang I had nothing but respect for Aljona since it was her FIFTH Olympics and she finally persevered to win gold and proved a woman in her thirties still has plenty left. I'm not at all surprised she would come out of her hiatus to compete again professionally and even switching nationalities to do it (Germany seems to be less than enthusiastic to support figure skating). With her resume Aljona deserves the best support any federation can give her so logically I know that the USA was probably the only country willing to give it to her. However...I don't know, perhaps I was being too hopeful, but I think it would have been great that a skater like Aljona would stay with a smaller federation to boost their profile or prestige in skating. Unfortunately figure skating is just on the edge of death in so many countries and smaller federations just don't have the support to boost S-tier figure skaters. At this point I would say only the USA, Russia, and Japan (and arguably Canada) have that power. I would have much preferred if Aljona stuck to coaching pairs in the USA as she would have been an amazing asset, but obviously she feels like she has more to give as a competitor. But wasn't TJ already paired with someone prior to Aljona? (Brynne?) Besides the allegations against him, he is also VERY young and inexperienced. It's an odd pairing, still it's Aljona's choice... I just think that if she had stuck to coaching (especially for the USA) she would have been a more valuable asset since she likely won't get citizenship before the 2022 Olympics. Logically - I understand her reasoning, she's not ready to quit competing yet. Personally - I find the change a bit strange and disheartening as a figure skating fan.

So ummm... are we going to talk about what's going on Aljona Savchenko and TJ Nyman and that whole mess?? I thought Redford was bad, but I'm very upset with Aljona if all of this is true... and we don't need to get into Nyman's disgusting actions

I think it may have been me who said that Yuzu may be the last to handoff the torch to the cauldron lighter? I believe that is still the most likely possibility if Yuzu does not run with the torch in Miyagi which is certainly very possible. Right now there's no way the games will be cancelled and Japan's government also said that they cannot (or will not) postpone another year (though I'd love to have the winter and summer Olympics in the same year!) I also do not believe it's up to Japan to decide. It is up to the IOC and they will not cancel. Could the Japanese government or the JOC do something to cancel or postpone? Yes, but there's probably too much to lose at this point sadly. It's really not as easy as a lot of people think. The JOC definitely NEED an athlete whose popularity exceeds the Olympics themselves (and certainly the government and JOC) and given the most recent polls that is definitely Yuzuru. Yuzuru is not only an accomplished athlete, but represents the strength and resilience of the Japanese people in the wake of disaster. Not only that, he's young and very handsome with a solid international fanbase. The JOC NEEDS him to bolster their image if only a little, it may indeed help sooth some of the tension with the Olympics this year. I do believe Yuzu could refuse if they asked him but I suspect if they did ask him to be involved it was back in 2018 and they may have even made him sign a contract. How would Yuzu have known about a pandemic then? (Sidenote: I did some very short-term contract work for the IOC and I KNOW that they will make you sign a contract for EVERYTHING). If he is not already locked in contractually, then he may feel obligated to do it because he does need the support of the JOC. Remember how the JOC had 8 Korean bodyguards meet Yuzu at the airport? I think that the JOC and Yuzu do have a good relationship. If he doesn't do them a favor he may not get their support for Beijing (and we know that the JSF isn't really supporting Yuzu well either). There's just so much going on behind the scenes that it's really difficult to judge. In any case, I would not hold it against Yuzu if he did participate in the torch run or in the opening ceremony. I'm not sure what the Japanese general public will think though, but I hope they do see he may not have much of a choice.

I certainly agree that Yuzu would fit right in with any J-Pop star, I could definitely see him as an idol star! I think there was even a controversy around the end of the 2018 Olympics where a Japanese idol in a Korean group (I think it was one in Iz*One?) where she had posted a photos of Yuzu on her Instagram and that got some of her fans mad (pretty sure she was saying he was handsome and supported him during the Olympics). Dumb controversy, but clearly some idols are aware of Yuzu (and his handsomeness) As for his SP for the Olympics I think it's very likely he will be convinced to use piano music because that's what the ISU and American media has pigeonholed him for. If he does a more rock/modern program he won't get as high marks since it'll be seen as "copying Nathan" or "outside his wheelhouse". I really hope he just says f**k it, and does LGC. That program is so fast, such an audience pleaser, plus, if he does go for the 4A I think that program has the best axel punch! On the third point I do not think Yuzu will light the cauldron (if the Olympics still go on). Usually it is an athlete, famous for a summer sport, that lights the cauldron for the summer Olympics. Think in 2018 with Yuna Kim lighting the cauldron, she brought the Winter Olympics to Korea. But I do think Yuzu could be the final torch runner who hands it off to whoever lights the cauldron. I think there's a good argument that Yuzu's success at the Winter Games led to more Olympic excitement for Japan (unfortunately not with COVID but still...) In some ways I do think Yuzu's popularity will help smooth some areas over, but really, the Olympics are going to be a mess this year.

Why do I not find that unsurprising from Daniil? He seems like an arrogant POS (excuse the language, or don't) who lucked out by being Eteri's chosen choreographer for some reason. It's really unfortunate for all those kids in Mexico who have no where near the same level of support or access to skating facilities as Russian/Moscow skaters. If they had any brain they'd recognize the best way for figure skating to move forward and evolve is make the sport more diverse, opening opportunities for skaters from around the world. But no, Russia is the only country that matters...

(Forgive my rambling thoughts) There's just so much in this proposal that screams how out of touch the ISU is with figure skating currently. I mean, shouldn't they have implemented something YEARS ago if they recognized this age problem??? Plus, as the ISU and judging have proven over and OVER, component scores don't matter anymore. It's all about the technical. Young girls who do quad jumps are going to win over older girls and young women competing who haven't trained to do quads or need to condition their post-puberty body to perform quad jumps. If a girl is 15/16 years old, performing quads (Eteri girls basically), they are going to win all the competitions (except the ones where they are competing against one another) so the only thing that would motivate them to continue is if they missed out on an Olympic year. I get that someone like Trusova hasn't won ALL her competitions, but put her against any skater not doing quads and she will come out on top (as long as she doesn't keep falling). It's made ladies skating much more boring to watch really because a lot of these young girls are just a bore to watch outside of their jumps for me (except Kostornaia). This has all created a very unfortunate situation for figure skating and its future. There was a time when ladies skating progressing into quads would be exciting and draw more interest in the sport, but unfortunately because it is mostly these very young Russian ladies doing them (and subsequently retiring at 17) that interest hasn't come about how the ISU expected. The ISU pretty much encouraged this and ladies skating is suffering as a result. If the skater is just aiming to win an Olympic title and retire thereafter there's nothing to keep me in the sport for ladies skating. (Though I do see my favorite ladies skaters Rika and Kaori possibly competing after the Olympics, I don't see them as gold medal favorites sadly...) I also believe the ISU does not AT ALL understand the level of Yuzuru's popularity. Are they so used to women skaters pulling in audiences they are ignoring the most popular skater in the world of the last decade? I don't think I need to go too in depth here as others have said what needs to be said in this regard. It is very angering to see that these ISU proposals are coming out in what is likely going to be the twilight of Yuzu's career. He was so far beyond them that the ISU does not realize what they let slip through their fingers.

Yikes, this Radford/James pairing is going to be quite the shit show for Team Canada. It might even overtake Eteri drama (for now...) I may not like what Meagan writes on Twitter (I think she's totally out of touch with a lot of skating fans and skating rules tbh) but it really seems that Eric did not communicate with her whatsoever. I also think her bringing up the fact that she was pregnant while doing skating shows with him is a damn good way to taint his character. If he asked her to skate shows while she was pregnant why could he not at least extend the courtesy to say that he wanted to compete again with another partner? And we all know what's going on with Vanessa with Morgan and all that unpleasantness... This pairing is NOT going to be popular to say the least - what were they thinking?

Have to admit that reading Twitter the last week (or thereabouts) has been quite the rollercoaster. I have gone through my follow list and purged a number of people (mostly journalists like Hersh) away because I cannot stand them anymore. Then this morning to read what JW is posting to defend himself I just had to laugh. He constantly victimizes himself, and while I do understand he did get quite a bit of crap during his competitive career, he honestly seems to take no attempts to take a mature approach. I'm pretty sure I unfollowed him this summer over his horrendous BLM blunder. I feel like a lot of so called "experts" of figure skating (former skaters and journalists) don't really understand why people are so dedicated to Yuzuru and that his fans understand the sport WAY more than "experts" think.

So this is going to be a dumb question... but what is the most solid evidence that the ISU is pushing Yuzu out? Or how the JSF has mistreated Yuzu? Not doubting or anything since something seems odd, but genuinely curious!