LourdesMoon

5 hours ago, liv said:

Watched episode 3 of Game of Thrones... totally mesmerized.... and that music as the Night King heads towards Bran... awesome stuff.. hopefully someone skates to it someday ... dramatic, nuanced, building to the end... love it. I am in love with that show and the music is brilliant. I don't get HBO so I watched clips on YT at 4am just before I got  up for work.... couldn't focus all day... and now I"m exhausted and want to go to bed but I have to finish my taxes by midnight tomorrow.... and pay them!! mOre chocolate and cherrry coke on tap....

I wasn't happy with some of the decisions in the episode itself but I never thought of the potential of the music for FS. WOW it would be epic indeed!

5 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

 

Maybe one of the admins can help you find who they are/what their ip is/block the ip from forum if you can compare timestamps of your comments and who was lurking on PH then? Other than that, check simple variations of their YouTube handle on twitter/other forums and you might be able to find them and tell them you know it's them, screenshot any PMs they might send you just in case.

To anyone who saw my message, thanks so much for responding. Turns out this person has since deleted their YouTube comments in relation/response to me and I think that says enough about them as a person as well as the validity of their statements. I was already contacted and have since calmed down, but when it first started I had gotten a bit flustered, especially since this person blatantly said they came on PH to read my comments and had seen/ mentioned tweets from weeks ago when they misquoted me. But I am simply not going to engage anymore...my responses to them were opposing everything they claimed so I think I've said my part. Bullies will be bullies. 

Anyone know where I should go when faced with some troublesome FS Stalker (maybe a Nathan Stan but unsure) who has been misquoting me on Youtube and apparently comes to the Planet to watch our convos? Looking for advice? I honestly don't know what forum to post this under and I don't know what to do really? 

6 minutes ago, Fay said:

Guys, have you mistaken this thread for General Skating Chat? 

Sorry! I think one comment just led to another on my part! Will move it over next time LOL

2 minutes ago, eagle said:

 

I have watched CBC 2019 for Yuzuru & Nathan on youtube. The praises towards Nathan has increased compared to previous years. Like Nathan suddenly improved his skating skills, transitions dramatically.

I havent watched the recap thing that LordesMoon is talking abt.

 

 

Here's the link if you're ever curious. They don't talk about Nathan here too much but more about Shoma and Vincent. A few seconds on Yuzu lol. 

1 minute ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I think it's a case of them having to say something that sounds reasonably logical to explain his rise. 

I hate to admit that is probably the case...but it's very frustrating as a long-time fan and viewer to know it's not ALL true. I understand the logic behind it though, even if I vehemently disagree and feel that it's not their honest opinions. 

2 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I watch CBC all the time and I have not noticed any increase in praise for Nathan beyond the fact the he did win World's. And since he has won World's twice, it would be weird if they didn't talk about him. 

I'll have to disagree with you there. They are implying Nathan has the full package now, that his program components have improved (they have but not to the level of marks he is receiving) and that his strength lies in his GOE (which arguably is only because of the misuse of the new system), which is different then simply praising the two-time World Champion. But this Nathan narrative is problem for almost all commentators now, because it's what sells, so I can't blame them for going in that direction. 

2 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

That question goes to the core of "what is the job of a figure skating commentator?" Is it really the commentator's job to tell the viewers about every little or big flaw in every single program, by every skater? Can you imagine what that would be like?  "Up next is Yuri Katsuki, who hasn't been able to do a clean program to save his life for the last two years. The reason being, ( whole bunch of nitpicky negative stuff). But he keeps on landing in the top five because the judges are all biased or paid off by his coach. I sure hope he doesn't screw it up this time." Seriously, no one would watch anymore and all the skaters would feel like killing themselves! 

 

In order words, no matter what Kurt's actual opinion of the judging is, he's never going to say it on air if he disagrees with it. But pay attention to all the times he says he agrees with the judges instead.

 

 

 

I don't think they should list every flaw, but I remember when Alina Zagitova did her LP at Cup of China last year before Olympics. Kurt mentioned her under-rotations and how ladies often cheat some of their jumps and that judging would be harsher on that going forward, yet they still had time to praise certain parts of the program for being smart and capitalizing on points strategically. I would love if they could do that more often for all disciplines. That's what I meant. But CBC is the commentators I turn to the most so I'm not saying they are the worst by any means. They are more balanced, but they could be even better is all I'm saying. 

6 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

He hasn't suggested this. What are you talking about? He might have praised him, but that's not the same as this.

 

If someone has a transcript, it'll be appreciated.

I don't have the transcript and don't really have the time to go watch the CBC recap and WTT commentary again, but this was the impression I got not only about how Kurt talked about Vincent but about Nathan as well. Even if he explicitly doesn't say something that negates these skaters' mistakes/ flaws, the hype and praise suggests the judging is fair, which we've established that it isn't. That's my only issue here. 

2 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Well in the Live, what he said was that after Vincent tried to fix the UR issue, the UR calls by the judges went away. He never actually comes out and says that Vincent has stopped under rotating. Saying the judges stopped calling it doesn't imply that Kurt thinks Vincent has stopped doing URs. 

I hope no thinks I have an issue with Kurt, I really do enjoy his commentary, but as a commentator shouldn't he mention these things? Even simply saying the issue hasn't gone away but that the audience should be aware that judges make calls based on various factors (camera angles, emotion, etc) would still be beneficial rather than simply staying quiet and being ok with the calls, wouldn't it? 

Just now, hoodie axel said:

Because... people can support skaters despite their issues?

I think I used the wrong terminology in my comment. I mean that his comment here and in the WTT 2019 commentary suggest that Vincent's programs are without flaws now and that his jumps are no longer under-rotated. I shouldn't have simply said support, sorry. Of course he can support him.

9 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

Leave it to Browning to be one of the few who know what they're talking about.

I love Browning as much as the next person but despite his knowledge on FS and jumps...he has been making some questionable statements regarding the men don't you think? Or is it just me?

6 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Exactly.

But his support of Vincent (and his praise of his programs/jumps) implies Vincent hasn't under-rotated lately...but he has. So despite his expertise...why is he saying this? 

8 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

He also mentioned that Zhou under-rotated even on his waltz jumps. That surprised me. 

I think he said that as way to say he doesn't under-rotate and that it's his ankles creating that illusion. That's how I interpreted that statement...because it's like...impossible for someone to under-rotate a waltz jump???

1 minute ago, twitwi said:

It is even okay for me if them didn't mention his name, since part of the broadcast content based on the questions audience raised, but mentioin Yuzu for 5 secs in that way  ... just blow up my mind. 

I mean the method of taking audience questions was kinda dumb to begin with? Why call it a season recap if they don't actually do the recap on the the 4 disciplines first THEN take audience questions...that would be more fair for everyone. I wouldn't have minded if they took time to do that. 

11 minutes ago, Anki said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but in most Nathan and Yuzu encounters - the winner of the SP end up wining the overall competition. Even when the person who lost the SP did a better FP,  the judges don't let things turn around easily (e.g. GPF 2016, RoC 2017, and I will even say Worlds 2019 - had judges marked GOE/PCS appropriately and not wrongly call the UR, Yuzu could have won the FS at least).  That's the impact of who the judges decided to be the first for a competition from the starting impression.  And the main reason for Yuzu's excessively low GOE in Worlds 2017 because after the SP the judges decided Javi was the winner already - they were not ready for Yuzu to spoil that hence they held down his GOE to make room. Had Javi not bombed the FS who knows what crazy GOE and PCS they would have thrown out (the ones they did give were already crazy though). Which is why it is imperative for Yuzu to win the SP no matter what, as it almost decides the winner barring a complete meltdown from Nathan in the FS. 

I agree with you. I'll also add, that almost every time he's lost to Nathan it has been because of a Quad Salchow. Those things really ruin his groove. In 4CC 2017, he popped the Quad Salchow combo in the short and long (but did his Yolo comeback in the LP), at RoC 2017 it was the Quad Loop that he popped in the Short I believe, but the Quad Salchow still gave him some trouble in the Long (he didn't complete the combo - which might've made a difference) AND at WC 2017 the Quad Salchow in the Short and Long program were the things which brought his mark down. SOOOO...can we do some voodoo for the Salchow to behave or...???

11 minutes ago, twitwi said:

okay, i finally got some time (during working and set this as my working BGM) to watch this.

And i was shocked, what did he imply? Yuzu didn't have a easy and beautiful quads? and did he mean in some competitions he didn't deserve to win but anyway he won because this "magic"

 

aside from this, I thought I heard kurt said something like " we should only have french ice dance team and nathan chen's skate"

the world  is even worse than i thought...

I don't know if I'd go that far because Kurt has a tendency to say things that can be taken out of context. I remember when he reacted to the idea that Yuzu hadn't won two GPs in a row as something super shocking and that he thought he should've won more. He also said that "he's [Yuzu] had more luck at Olympics than Worlds"  which implies that it only took luck...I don't think he means any of it. It's just how he speaks. I remember he got a lot of backlash for the first comment about Yuzu's lack of medals and people sent a lot of tweets his way to the point where he had to address it by saying he didn't mean it in that manner and that he loves Yuzu a great deal.

BUT...he does get on the Quad hype train A LOT. He has blatantly ignored problems that Shoma, Nathan, and now Vincent have showcased with their quads in the past. Shoma is one he ignores because his style is just very appealing and it's gotten ignored by the judges so I suppose to not confuse viewership, they don't say anything unless the marks suggest that they should say something. Nathan has gotten a major pass because he has been dubbed the "Quad King" in North America (first) and Kurt has a connection with American skaters due to his past in Professional Skating and Stars on Ice. He appreciates Nathan's athleticism and as I've said before, probably felt for Nathan when he had the Olympic mishap in the Short program reminiscent of his own. It's fine to love Nathan's skating...no problem there, but he's said that he has the complete package, deserves his marks, and used very similar praises about Yuzu for Nathan in the WTT 2019 commentary. For example suggesting that Nathan's strengths lie in his GOE (???), which it never did because GOE used to rely more on transitions, landing positions, and integration in the program which we don't see from Nathan. Now that GOE's first main bullets rely on height, distance and good jump position, Nathan's GOE can't really be questioned as much as it once was. Anyway...the reason Vincent gets a pass, as we've learned in the live season recap is that Kurt has been working with him. The personal bias shouldn't influence how he disregards Vincent's under-rotations but he DOES??? 

I've said before that I'm Canadian, and I love Kurt. But his misinformation right now is ruining how audiences view the men's discipline. It isn't as well-balanced as he says it is...by buying into the narrative that Nathan is now the "chosen one," Kurt is allowing people to continue to believe the grading is fair. I really don't know what to say to that because I had high hopes that this recap would at least just be fluff about everyone's efforts this year, but it gave me more reason to question CBC commentary (at least in the Men's discipline). Carol seems more fair and aware of how Ice Dance is going. 

Also...I predicted this before but looked like a pessimist...but using Yuzu's picture and then talking about him for 5 seconds was...kinda low?

The CBC live stream (with PJ, Carol, and Kurt) , for anyone who's curious, mentioned Yuzu's amazing presence on the ice and how he's magical (for maybe 5 to 10 secs) but didn't really say much else.

The specific quote was in regards to how Kurt doesn't think athleticism is influencing the marks too much (LOL) because, "we have seen skaters come up who could quad, easily and beautifully, and they did not rise to the top, they were most often suppressed by someone like Yuzuru Hanyu who had a magic, who had a flair with the blade, who stood at centre ice and like... (Plushenko)... (paraphrased: could control the crowd)" etc. 

Note the use of past tense (had) which is most likely not intentional but as an English Major/Teacher it was hard for me not to say anything.

So only watch if you want to hear some 20-something minutes of discourse about Shoma's arms during landings, Vincent NOT under-rotating (because Kurt gave him some helpful tips and because this season has improved his confidence), the French Ice Dance team having very subjective scoring (although deserved), and just some general fluff about hard-working skaters. 

EDIT: That photo promo really feels like a let down now.

2 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I agree somewhat with what you're saying but on the other hand, Yuzu is the guy everyone is talking about because he is the one at the top, this year's Worlds notwithstanding. It would be weird for them not to talk about him, just like 15-20 years ago, it would have been weird for them not to talk about Plushenko. And they're broadcasting for general audience, not just figure skating fans. So it would be unrealistic for them ignore all the parts of the phenomenon that Yuzu fans have become, because all of that is interesting to a broader audience. 

 

As for Kurt saying or implying that skating in front of a Japanese crowd should be encouragement for Yuzu, I'm pretty sure Yuzu himself has said exactly the same thing in interviews, so I do not see the problem. 

 

As for the rest, it's kind of speculative to say things like Kurt might be projecting himself on Nathan because their situations are similar, etc. Again, if you think of the general audience CBC is aiming at, half them will be wondering why so much time in the broadcast is devoted to a Japanese skater, so it makes sense (even if it's very annoying) that Brian and Tracy get mentioned over and over again as the Canadian connection there. 

 

The part of their commentary I find cringey is when they try to be poetic and venture into flights of fancy with their language and say things that aren't really skating-related. Those types of comments get really easily lost in translation and can be misinterpreted by non-English speakers. 

 

But again, if you look at their commentary from the perspective that it's supposed to be reaching a general Canadian audience that may or may not know all that much about figure skating, as opposed to an audience made up of say, satellites, a lot of the issues become more understandable. 

 

And frankly, I don't agree with all the dislike of media coverage of the 'Pooh rain' and other fan things. Stuff like the Pooh rain sticks out, media is going to cover it, and it's the freedom of the press to decide how they want to portray the story. If people don't want to see Pooh rain in the media, then stop making it rain Pooh's and the press will go away, it's that simple. You can't have it both ways - you can't make big splashy fan gestures that attract attention, and at the same time expect it to go unremarked, especially not at an event like figure skating that already has intense media coverage. 

 

 

My issue with the Pooh Rain is just that it takes up their entire time when Yuzu has finished skating. I don't think it shouldn't be mentioned at all, that would be kinda hard and ridiculous for them not to mention it, but I don't like when 75% of their time spent on thoughts for the program are Pooh Rain comments or something related to Brian. Again, I truly love their commentary, these are small annoyances. I think Kurt's comment about the Japanese crowd being encouragement is something Yuzu has expressed before but it shouldn't be disregarded by commentators when we've heard similar excuses being made about ice conditions,  boot problems, or other pressure. I just think it should mentioned in some capacity, even if its just to say it is pressure, but he usually enjoys it. The "if Nathan had..." comments after Olympics are what bothered me the most about Kurt, and although the projection comment is speculative (and not originally mine), I believe he has related himself to Nathan in the past. Even if untrue, it doesn't excuse his "if" narrative which has also fuelled support for programs that might not have the complete package but still win (ex: Worlds 2019). But no media will be perfect, I know that. My comments were just things I've noticed over the years, and by no means does anyone have to agree. Thanks for adding your own comments on it!

2 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

He should be an honorary Canadian! In my heart he's one.

 

More to the point, Kurt and PJ both know Yuzu personally. Of course they're going to talk about his season. You'll note Nathan didn't make the poster. 

As a Canadian myself, I too feel he's an honorary Canadian and his comments about Canadian nature are really lovely to read.

(feel free to not read this part if you don't want to read a pessimistic take)

On a more serious note, I am always doubtful whenever we see him featured anywhere now because it seems exploitative. Kurt and PJ always do have kind things to say but it always rubs me the wrong way when broadcasts and even these "Behind the Scenes" that they do, focus on either fan adulation, something in relation to Brian and Tracy (because they are the Canadian connections) or the "Pooh Rain". Kurt of course is free to like whoever he wants, but often says things that are...problematic? It truly sucks because my mother and I always look forward to listening to the CBC broadcast because they are more objective than most, but less accurate with information than let's say, the Italian commentators or straightforward like the Japanese ones. 

To list a couple examples, Kurt has mentioned Shoma's pre-rotation and hard landings but never mentioned how or if that should be reflected in the marks. I remember Helsinki Worlds when Javi had a bad Free Skate and they (very reasonably) mentioned the psychological difficulty of skating last, but have never mentioned this when Yuzu had done so multiple times, or the reversal of skating first? Nathan's very brave skate after the Pooh Rain in Saitama has been commented on by multiple broadcasters and fans, but Kurt has implied before (ex: WTT 2017) that the pressure of a Japanese crowd should not be a hindrance for Yuzu but encouragement. 4CC 2017 featured Hope and Legacy being very low-key "bashed" (for lack of a better word) when it had been previously praised by CBC commentators at NHK2016 and GPF 2016. The more obvious comment I can't excuse is the one at the Olympics when Kurt mentioned something to the effect of, "if Nathan had not bombed his short program he would be in the lead" after Yuzu had just finished his Seimei Free Program. 

There's always little interjections of comments about Brian's past or the "Japanese crowd" (without mentioning the possibility of international fans being there as well, or that all Asian looking fans are not Japanese) that distract from moments when they could comment on the actual program. Alternatively, I will say that someone on twitter made a very interesting comment on how Kurt might be projecting himself onto Nathan since they both failed to win Olympic Gold, were country favourites to win, and both have fun styles of interpreting music. I don't know if that's true but he does focus a lot on the good more so than the bad with Nathan and Shoma. Yuzu, as always, seems to be held to a higher standard even though the CBC cast obviously adore him. 

None of these things are intentional, but it's annoying as someone who listens to them repeat certain narratives again and again. I look forward to seeing what they'll say here. PJ has also been someone convinced that Nathan now has the full package so I don't see them questioning his marks at all, though I wish they would. Again, please ignore my rant that I can't share anywhere else but have decided to 'word vomit' onto this chat LOL. 

Sorry for the random post...but can anyone direct me to the full video of Team Japan (WTT 2019) watching videos of past figure skaters? I've seen clips but not the full thing, if anyone knows where I can find it that would be greatly appreciated! 

No more Carmen please. For anyone. 

2 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

It does feel kind of nitpicky sometimes because men don't actually do many of the moves where pointy toe is really evident - like spirals, obviously, and layback spins. 

When they are evaluating Yuzu, it definitely feels nitpicky...it's like finding a cobweb on the Sistine Chapel and saying that it's ruining the aesthetic or ignoring the brilliance of the Mona Lisa just because it's small and can't be touched up properly like other historical paintings. Who the hell cares if he "looks down," I barely notice this, and I'm pretty sure no one notices and cares when he's doing a billion other nuances and beautiful moves on the ice. I also don't understand the comments in their video (TSL) about his carriage...to me he's fluid, flexible and emotive...that's unique. If you want everyone to have the same style then why even have a competition? 

1 hour ago, kiches said:

I haven’t watched or listened to the TSL recap with Inman but from what I’ve heard he doesn’t seem to be over enthusiastic about Nathan on all accounts either. I did watch his first interview with TSL and he struck me as extremely old fashioned and stuck in his tastes. I imagine he’d tend to find classic warhorse music more interesting and can’t understand the appeal of a program like Seimei. I think he also studied music in college so has knowledge, but if he really said that about the Onmyouji music then he’s making a very broad generalization of the music, and of his fellow Westerners which goes to show how narrow minded he likely is. 

I unfortunately heard what he said and he is not overly enthusiastic about Nathan but he is probably trying not to showcase his bias...regardless he says things like 'Nathan has transitions out of his jumps' (because one of the guys questioned his lack of transitions so he said Nathan makes them after he lands......and I was like, where?) or that 'Vincent is more artistic than people realize' (he ranks Vincent higher than Kolyada from what I remember) and implies that Nathan IS superior to Yuzu because Yuzu has really bad posture in his opinion. He really drives that point home, to the point where he says his PCS scores/opinions rely almost solely on posture and musicality. He also implies Nathan is very musical, he might even think he's more musical than Yuzu. 

On 3/26/2019 at 4:49 PM, Maya said:

I'd like to know what Plushenko said in the video (43:30). Has it been subbed?

 

 

Do we know what Shizuka and Honda say about the program? Has anyone subbed it? Or will be? Thank you in advance to any kind soul that does!