Some Random Thoughts After Studying Yuzuru for 3 Months

[databeej2w]

To Martina: Thanks for the explanation. Score manipulation or the incompetence of judges not only affects a few titles or the color of a few medals, invalidates Nathan's world records or streak of wins, but also affects the credibility of Yuzu's titles or records. The last thing upsets me the most. If the score cannot properly reflect the level of a performance, then the competition means nothing. It ruins skaters' efforts and makes the rivalry nonsense.

 

I heard from some Chinese fans that the French Fed chair met the JSF chair at the airport after GPF 2019, and asked why JSF didn't speak up for their skater about the scoring. Is it true? I couldn't find the origin of this. I really hope someone could have spoken up for Yuzu like Katarina Witt spoke up for Yuna publicly in Sochi 2014 that there should have been a bigger difference between the PCSs of Yuna and Adelina. When Adelina's FS scores were announced, the commentators were all surprised, including Kurt Browning. Johnny Weir said it is very very generous. Of course, Russia cannot control the US media. Has any commentator or media questioned Nathan's PCS?

[Martina]

The +5/-5 system is much more open to manipulation than the +3/-3 system, so older results are more reliable. This doesn't mean they can't be manipulated—Sotnikova's and Davis/White's victories in Sochi are proof of that—but there's a big difference between the two systems. I'll give you an example with a 4T.
From the 2010-11 to the 2014-15 season: BV 10.30, points earned with GOE +3 13.30, with GOE -3 7.30
From the 2015-16 to the 2017-18 season: BV 10.30, points earned with GOE +3 13.30, with GOE -3 6.30 (the negative GOE for quadruples was increased from -3.00 to -4.00)
From the 2018-19 season: BV 9.50, points earned with GOE +5 13.75, with GOE 5 4.75
This means that the fixed part, the one the judges cannot control (unless the tachnical panel starts making rotation calls based on how much they like the skater), gives fewer points, and the part decided by the judges has grown dramatically in both positive evaluations than in the negative ones. We can make a comparison of this kind for all the jumps. The new system is more manipulable.

As for the Gailhaguet episode, I've never found any newspaper articles confirming it. I believe it really happened, but we have no proof.

[databeej2w]

5 hours ago, Martina said:

Sotnikova's and Davis/White's victories in Sochi are proof of that

I didn't know the scandal of Davis/White's victory and just Googled it. How come Canada was the victim again, like in 2002?

 

I really miss the era (pre-2016, or at least before 2018) when scores actually made sense, or at least weren’t wildly inconsistent.

I also miss when commentators would genuinely appreciate the complexity of the transitions, be amazed by the size of the jumps, and how well the skaters maintained their flow before and after jumps. If commentators can recognize these nuances, there’s no reason judges couldn’t.

 

I have one last question. Sorry that you are almost like my ChatGPT.

In the video above, Brian describes how Yuzu first approached him—a mysterious phone call inviting him to a hotel room to meet someone he had never expected beforehand --- Yuzuru Hanyu. I'm really curious: who arranged this initial meeting for Yuzu? 

Based on the video, it seems Yuzu chose Brian Orser because of Javi. Javi had moved to Toronto a year before Yuzu, but how did Yuzu know Javi would thrive there based on just 5 competitions after the move? It's interesting that he didn't opt to train with Patrick, and after all, Javi wasn't the only skater attempting a 4S at that time. Having studied abroad myself at 22, I remember how anxious and uncertain that transition was. I was lucky to have a professor who encouraged and guided me through the process of researching and applying to schools. Without that support, I doubt I could have navigated everything on my own. It looks like he studied other skaters and coaches around the world and made the decision by himself. Amazing!

 

Moreover, how did he communicate his decision to leave his former coach—the coach who had helped him achieve a World Bronze medal? It must have been incredibly difficult at just 17. Changing coaches is rarely easy. When Evgenia switched to Toronto, Eteri publicly criticized both her and Brian for months. When Boyang tried to move to TCC, his coach's son even called him a "traitor." The transition faced long delays, and the pandemic pushed it back further, so Boyang didn’t really make the move to Canada until 2022—after his prime had already passed.

 

The whole process seems so complicated and emotionally charged, especially for such young athletes. I have a lot of admiration for those who manage these transitions so bravely.

[yuzurujenn]

Hiya, just popping in to share these books that touch on Yuzu's move to Toronto.

You can read more here from Shirota's book, who helped make the arrangements:

 

Also, more about his days with Brian from the "Team Brian" series. Unfortunately I don't have the first book which should touch more on the move.

 

 

 

And one more book from a journalist who had covered Yuzu a long time before. In Chapter 5, it seems that Nanami was the one who first brought up the idea of training overseas. Yuzu had gone abroad before to study choreography with Russian coaches in 2011. Whether Nanami was thinking of something temporary like that, or if she meant a permanent move, that I don't know.

 

[Martina]

3 hours ago, databeej2w said:

How come Canada was the victim again, like in 2002?

 

Because in 2014, the United States had no chance of reaching the podium in any of the other events, so they went all-in on ice dance. And when the United States gets involved in politics, Canada isn't strong enough to keep them at bay.
This is the passage from "On Edge," a book written by American judge Jon Jackson. Note that he's talking about a novice competition, not a major competition. And note that the judge he's talking about has judged Yuzu (giving him absurdly low marks) at the 2016 GPF, 2017 4CC, and 2018 OG, among other events.

 

Quote

 

Lorrie was working a marketing campaign, Russian-style, on the judges of my Novice Men’s event. The American boy she was promoting was a master stylist, and Lorrie must have taken every opportunity to play this up. He finished second in the short program, but scored the highest presentation marks. In the discussion that took place afterward, putting a twist on Russian-style spin, Lorrie let the foreign judges convince her just how good the U.S. skater was in presentation. “Really? Do you think so?” Pinky on chin, eyes to the ceiling.

In the freeskate, the American performer well enough. He missed a jump or two, as I recall, but he had a remarkable presentation. A young Swiss, skating immediately after, nailed a number of well-executed triple jumps. He skated a perfect program, and was clearly the winner. Well, at least the assistant referee and I saw it that way. The Swiss judge, of course, did too. But Lorrie and her previously persuaded panelists all gave it to the American. They did it by giving him a wide lead in the presentation mark to make up for the loss of his edge in technical merit.

I’m still not sure how Lorrie did it, but I wish I knew. She accomplished her goal without ever trading a single placement, without ever making a promise, no quid-pro-quo. She couldn’t have, there was no dance event, and Lorrie isn’t even a dance judge! She accomplished it in the same way the Russian did for Oksana Baiul, and the way they tried to do it for Irina Slutskaya in 2002, and the same way they will try again in 2006.

P. 182

 

 

I commented on this book on my blog. The comments are in Italian, the quotes from the book are in English:

https://sportlandiamartina.link/2020/12/14/jon-jackson-on-edge-4/

 

3 hours ago, databeej2w said:

I'm really curious: who arranged this initial meeting for Yuzu? 

 

Jenn already answered this by showing you Noriko Shirota's role. I'll just add Yutaka Higuchi's name. Higuchi was the first Japanese skater to train at the Toronot Cricket Club, in the 1970s. He met Orser when he was still very young, and they remained friends. After retiring from competition, he worked as a journalist (in this photo, you can see him on the left, interviewing Yuzu and Mao Asada at the 2012 NHK Trophy) and collaborated with the JSF, connecting Japanese skaters with foreign coaches and choreographers. Discussions took place with Shirota, but the organizational work was done by Higuchi.

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Yutaka_Higuchi?uselang=it#/media/File:Hanyu_and_Asada_in_Yutaka_'_s_room_at_the_2012_NHK_Trophy.jpg

 

3 hours ago, databeej2w said:

how did Yuzu know Javi would thrive there based on just 5 competitions after the move

 

Yuzu wanted to learn the 4S. I don't know when he started carefully observing other skaters, but I'm sure he had already started doing so at least in his second junior season, since he said he studied the 3A of Denis Ten and Artur Gachinski. Fernandez began training in Toronto in the 2011-12 season. That year, he competed in four competitions where Yuzu was also present: the Nebelhorn Trophy, the Rostelecom Cup, the GPF, and the WC. You can be sure he studied him carefully, because at the Rostelecom Cup, Yuzu won by just 3 hundredths, which made him realize that every extra hundredth can make a difference.
If you look at the link, these are Fernandez's 4S, arranged in chronological order. Notice when he started landing the jump, and think about who his coach was. If Orser could teach Fernandez the 4S, he could teach him too.

 

https://skatingscores.com/q/element/?show_ranks=on&underline=&season_codes=all&division_codes=sr&division_codes=jr&event_codes=intl&series_codes=all&discipline_codes=men&segment_type_codes=all&unit_country_codes=all&unit_name=javier+fernandez&element_type_codes=jump&element_code=4s%&bonus=none&sort=chron&limit=10&submit-button=Submit

 

3 hours ago, databeej2w said:

It's interesting that he didn't opt to train with Patrick

 

I think there are two reasons. Chan had not the 4S in his programs, and Yuzu wanted to watch closely a skater land the 4S. Also, probably he felt he had to maintain a certain distance, since Chan was the skater he wanted to overtake.

3 hours ago, databeej2w said:

Moreover, how did he communicate his decision to leave his former coach—the coach who had helped him achieve a World Bronze medal? It must have been incredibly difficult at just 17. Changing coaches is rarely easy.

 

We don't know all the details, but Nanami Abe know really well the training conditions in Sendai after the earthquake. She knew this was a huge limitation for Yuzu. And I think Yuzu is capable of showing the intensity of his feelings like no other. Abe was very important to him, but getting results was also very important. And she understood this and put Yuzu's needs first. The relationship remained excellent; Abe's husband continued to sharpen Yuzu's blades, and they later worked together on some choreography.