koneko

I'd love to hear what you think! I sometimes unconsciously do the RAD pirouette en dedans and my Balanchine teacher said it was 'old-fashioned' (probably also because the Balanchine style wants straight-to-the-point steps and less of the flourishes) I like Cecchetti fouettes more because they look so pretty (Tamara Rojo, Viengsay Valdes, Marianela Nunez). It's also easier to turn multiple fouettes and travel less. Thank you! It would definitely be a long and arduous journey. I think both roles would appeal to him But yes for sparkly gold illusion mesh!! (he'd probably go all in and pair it with shiny gold harem pants Unless you meant sparkly gold illusion mesh for both top and bottom? ) Alina Cojocaru is amaaazing Lucky you!! She already showed so much potential at 15 (So adorable in D'Artagnan - though it must have caused a stir back in 1997 when she did dem gymnastic moves at a ballet competition . I wonder if she could still do these stunts now). She's very versatile - from playing the naive Pupil in The Lesson, the wily Odile to the regal Odette. I agree, stealing the show from Ivan Vasiliev IS impressive - he's a legend in his own right (it must be intimidating to partner with him - in this Le Corsaire performance, you can hear the audience gasp in awe and clap at every step - and the deafening applause afterwards)

Thank you for this link! Interesting podcast! Kurt was a young man during Baryshnikov's heyday (lucky him!), so he really knows what he's talking about. Mikhail 'Misha' Baryshnikov was the type of dancer who drew gasps from the audience and thunderous applause even when his performance wasn't over yet. Much like Yuzu, he had something special that the others didn't have.

Yes, I would love to see that, too! (sans licking and ogling also ) Shame is not a concept in his vocab - from his past costumes, we all know that he'd do almost anything to keep in character I remember how some were scandalized over jailbait!Yuzu doin' dem hip rolls (hahaha, the wolf whistles and yowls were so loud in the Nebelhorn Trophy performance). I think the fact that now that he's more mature and has an increased awareness of his appeal contributed to the success of LGC. Those are excellent dance style suggestions. You're right about Patrick's body type - he is bulky, yes, but his bulk is perfect for a male ballet dancer: good for lifting and supporting (take for examples: Roberto Bolle, Mikhail Baryshnikov or Carlos Acosta [Sorry if the photos might be NSFW, I wanted to show male ballet dancers' body types and how Patrick's is comparable ])

My Cecchetti teacher didn't believe in single pirouettes Pirouettes en dehors are usually started from 2nd position (maybe to improve turnout or maybe to make things harder LOL) and they end with a lunge facing the front with the arms in the 'giving position' (I can't remember its real name, only what my teacher nicknamed it Basically your arms are outstretched in front of you like you're giving something). Cecchetti fouettes are also different. The working leg is extended to the front (standing leg on demi plie) before whipping it to second. Vaganova taught me to extend the working leg directly to second before whipping it to passe. (I like the Cecchetti style better - I feel like I gain more angular momentum that way) I studied RAD under the old syllabus, so a lot of things might have changed. From what I recall, the 1st position arms are really low - almost to the level of the bellybutton. Pirouettes en dedans whip the leg to 2nd first before going to passe. A RAD student would never compromise their form for a higher extension. (I think they changed the syllabus to make it more challenging now; in the old syllabus, graded students don't even learn pointework - only if they're vocational or in the advanced level) This question makes me feel better about my "impure" technique, thank you! Maybe for longevity it might not be, and if I was considering to become a full-time ballet teacher (which I am - ever since hearing Yuzu's struggle to get fs practice when his rink was destroyed If students interested to learn ballet have no means to do so, I want to bring ballet to them). A Cecchetti school, for example, would definitely not hire me . Illusion mesh would've been better. His costume was not pirate-y. I want to see Yuzu do Scherehezade, too - he definitely has her storytelling abilities that could capture an audience. I want to know, too. I think you have a sound theory about the articulation of his feet might affect his skating. I've always believed that flexibility is a matter of genetics and practice. In theory if he did gymnastics also, there is an extra reason for him to be more flexible (like FS' Lipnitskaya or Ballet's Cojocaru ). Yes, maybe he lost it with age (plus maybe he's not genetically flexible and that he didn't practice it a lot) Gomes is amazing at potraying Rothbart in this ABT version - in other performances Rothbart just comes off as a creep . And omg, you linked my fave performance of Matthew Bourne's version of Swan Lake (a large part is because Adam Cooper is gorgeous and he did both The Swan and The Stranger so well). I've always wondered who the Stranger was and why he resembled the Swan. I do agree that it's too overtly sexual (Bourne's Nutcracker is pretty much the same...too much licking and 'twerking' on poles) I think the Black Swan of this version is pretty much summed up by this emoji: . I'd like to see a male Black Swan that is more subtle at seducing (without the licking, inappropriate fondling & ogling AND the riding crop ) YES! Most of the ballet villains are silly and for comic relief (Idk why, but all this talk of ballet villains reminded me of The Lesson (The Professor started as being silly and creepy then escalated to someone capable of murder Kobborg did an excellent job portraying both sides. I lowkey wanted to share this vid also to marvel at Cojocaru's grand battement)

You described the struggle perfectly! Maybe this is one reason why the Balanchine technique requires dancers to keep their weight forward/'lift' their torso. I moved around a lot when I was a kid, so whatever ballet studio was nearest, I had to go . (Disclaimer:My bias is strongly in favor of Vaganova, so that might color my opinions a bit. Plus, the kind of teachers I've had affect my impressions of the methods as well). Cecchetti is I think the closest thing the ballet world has to military school. They have this 'days of the week' thing in which each day of training is focused a particular aspect (ex. lines, pointe work, turnout, jumps etc). Ballet is treated as an exact science. Lots of things to memorize (even head positions have names!), and your head move in one unit with your arms and legs. But the port de bras are so stiff! (Vaganova has the BEST) I do like how it emphasized on having natural turnouts, though. Adagios are super, duper, monstrously, impossibly hard (lots of grand plie into pirouettes, a la seconde promenades...my knees hurt just remembering). Frankly, I wouldn't recommend Cecchetti to someone who just plans to do ballet casually. RAD is almost the opposite: the level of difficulty progresses so slowly. You have to repeat and repeat the set of exercises until you can do them perfectly before you can learn new things. Even if you go up a grade, there is only a slight advancement. My younger self wanted to learn the "flashy, explosive stuff," so I didn't enjoy this as much Plus, it was a culture shock after I switched to a non-RAD school where everyone on my age/level is expected to already know how to double/triple pirouettes, entrechats and such - I was used to doing plie exercises without much change for months. I had a lot of catching up to do. I guess my biggest disadvantage is that I don't have a "pure" ballet technique. That explains the glowing, much lengthier(compared to the others) Vaganova write-up. Once again, your genius Internet surfing skills astound me! Awww, so cute! Lots and lots of fascinating stuff in this article and vid: 1. The article actually compared Nathan to Nureyev? Wow. Those are some big shoes to fill, boi. 2. Using Nureyev's vids as inspiration for his Le Corsaire SP answers the question in my mind as to who Nathan was portraying. I had wondered whether it was the dashing, debonair Conrad or the topless, slave boy toy Ali Because while the choreo says the latter, the costume says neither. I guess going sans shirt (certainly) "gives the effect of excessive nudity" and is not "modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition" as per ISU rules 3. Even as a young dancer, he has better upper body form than his lower body. Lovely port de bras, but Baby Nathan, please point your toes properly. He just scrunches his toes and doesn't use his arch! But I'm optimistic and I'd like to believe that his ballet technique improved during his 6 1/2 years with the academy. 4. Quoting from the article: ["He has perfect placement (relative positioning of his torso, head and limbs), perfect turnout (hip rotation) and natural kinesthetic awareness that some kids never get," Snarr said.] - uhhh, *cue Exhibit A: His Spread eagle" 5. Even Nathan himself admits that he doesn't show as much artistry because he's more focused on the athleticism. You have inflamed in me a desire to see him portray Odile someday. All that intensity, that passion, that aggressiveness, that seductive allure... oh my, I never knew I needed this He'd totally nail it, too. I love that idea of him being Baby Rothbart in White Legend, thank you!; I have to watch that performance again with that headcanon. THIS.

I second this! I tried Latin dance and Modern Ballroom and the first things they taught are how to do the basic steps and how to move with your partner. No barre work and floor work so much (but maybe that depends on the teacher?) Theoretically speaking, maybe pole dancing is also another possible substitute for additional training? It certainly develops flexibility and leg (plus arm and core!!) strength. Additionally, the physics behind the spins are pretty much the same (nerd talk: angular momentum = rotational inertia X angular velocity. To make it short [and not put everyone to sleep ], keeping a tight position allows them to spin faster.) And figure skaters and pole dancers don't spot! That still boggles my mind According to that article you linked, Nathan apparently did 6 1/2 years of ballet and he started when he was seven. So....where did the ballet go??? That must have been a passionate, epic rant I'm really sad I missed it. If I was not so allergic to that place in the aftermath of the Great Exodus, I would totally go back and read it. Yes, Yuzu is so versatile, like a chameleon changing its colors to suit his surroundings and circumstances.

This is an interesting discussion, thank you for linking me to it! Yes, alignment is important because it would create an even, level area to receive the force equally, thereby diffusing the pressure more safely. It would definitely lessen the impact/shock on parts of the body landing the jumps. There are no words sufficient enough to encompass the beauty of Yuzu's jumps. As many have pointed out, they look so effortless when they're actually super duper hard . So light, so airy! (Gravity?What gravity?) I would also love to read your analysis of the Top 6 men. It would be an amazing read!

She's more suited to the Black Swan role with her bold interpretation, I think. If you're biased, then I certainly share the same bias As much as I admire Oksana and Johnny, I like Yuzu's version the best (I didn't know that someone made a lyric version of Saint-Saens music...omg so beautiful. I'm super glad I learned Italian before this performance: it was Destiny! ) I watch Yuzu's performance daily as part of my soul-cleansing ritual.

Yes! So Balanchine swans are more like hummingbirds, then. HAHAHA, I do the same thing. I often run out of space when texting people. But yay, we have a new thread where we can be as 'unsuccinct' as possible! Starting from a lunge position before turning is way, way harder than the traditional 4th position, I think. Especially when the back leg is straight. Because of the deep plie, it's a much longer way to go 'up.' Sophia would've probably taken the fs world by storm, beast that she is. Just look at this and this! She's one of the few dancers who spins like a figure skater (sans the ice and boots). The best thing is, she's only 14 and would only get better and better (OMG what was I doing at 14? ) I like her because she makes me believe in impossible things; this is the same feeling engendered in me by our dearly beloved Space Kitten. These are fascinating reads, thank you! I've tried Cecchetti, RAD and Australian Conservatoire of Ballet (based on Vaganova), but wow, there are so many more methods! I like how the write-up stressed (in capital, bold red letters ), that Vaganova is 'INJURY-FREE' training. The writer must be a fan of this method. Oh my! I've heard and read from critics how this method can be injury-prone, but I didn't know it was this bad. I feel so sad for those former dancers who've had hip replacements at such a young age. I think it's interesting how one of the posters mentioned that the current technique is an incomplete, 'bastardized version' of what Balanchine taught; and that he was apparently very hands-on and took into account the dancer's individuality in training them. Me, too! I've tried searching videos of him dancing ballet online, to no avail; so we can't really be sure unless someone asks him. There is a good chance that he was trained in/at the least has studied Balanchine,though. According to its wiki page, " Balanchine technique is taught in schools throughout North America." Balanchine created this in America and it is widely regarded as the 'American technique' ("Balanchine technique are true American creations"). The Ballet West Academy website is vague ("trains pure classical ballet with a uniquely American Syllabus"), but it did say that their students performed Balanchine's works; so at the least they also teach Balanchine there... I guess we have to be optimistic then (I had to retype my whole reply because of internet issues, so do forgive me if I miss something )

@Xen Thank you for the question, and Yay, that sounds like a marvelous idea to add to your skating training! A lot of my ballet students who are cross-training figure skaters came to me because they wanted to improve their flexibility. Yes, I would say that Jazz is a great substitute to ballet training because they have the same foundation and similar principles: flexibility, developing core and leg strength for jumps, the importance of good jump technique from take off to landing...and so on. Though if you also want to improve your turnout, or want to focus on posture/form as well I highly suggest ballet more. Maybe try both gyms first to see which fits you and your needs better. A good part of it is having a teacher who really knows his/her stuff. Most Jazz teachers also have ballet training, so go with the one who has This is an interesting Interview I think you might be interested in. They interviewed Annette Thomas, a former ballet dancer who is now training figure skaters in ballet. She was asked about the benefits of ballet training for figure skaters. If there are no ballet studios near you, and to help you decide on adding to your training (without spending money ), I also recommend this: Youtube playlist. This is series of ballet barre workouts geared towards everyone who are interested in trying out ballet. They're easy to follow and you can do at home (and for free!). Just put on some socks, grab a sturdy chair and you're ready to go! The teacher in these vids, Kathryn Morgan, is a former principal dancer with NYC Ballet. She is primarily Balanchine-trained, but has amazing technique. Her ballet barre workouts have different goals - like improving turnouts, arms & back, core, balance, etc. Good luck!! I'd love to know how everything turns out. I'll be cheering for you from the virtual sidelines! I wonder about the same thing I didn't even know that Nathan had ballet training until Fresca pointed it out (And I've been dancing for 17 years,lol). I can see it in skaters like Baiul or Machida, but not them. I would definitely say that Yuzuru is more graceful than Nathan (Critics who say that Yuzu is not 'balletic' needs to get their eyes checked. I think Yuzu can be 'balletic' if that's what his program requires him to, Amazing Extra Perfectionist that he is. )

Did Oksana Baiul do an Italian fouette here? So cool! I really enjoy it when ballet-inspired fs programs pay homage to the original choreography (like Nathan's hand-to-shoulder touch thingies in his Le Corsaire SP)

Oh yes, you should . Based on my (thoroughly legit LOL) scientific research, it is the leading cause of death among Hanyu Yuzuru fans. It generally occurs when the subject in question (Yuzu) defies laws of physics, makes questionable costume/program choices or acts in a super cute manner. Symptoms include but are not limited to the following: shortness of breath, heart palpitations, and uncontrollable squeals/giggles/high decibel sounds. As of the moment, there is no known cure except having another dose (or two, three or more) of Yuzu. If you experience any of the symptoms, consult a doctor (or a warlock like Kikuchi-san) immediately.

(cause of death: myocardial infarction due to excessive lack of oxygen resulting from Acute Yuzu Perfectitis Syndrome) I shamefully admit that I did unspeakable things to the replay button . So beautiful...his turnout on the SEs is goals and shows off his amazing edges when he cuts circles through the ice. I can't possibly marry such perfection...I'm not worthy that Russian commentator will be telling everyone "I told you so!" when Yuzu lands that 4A

Thank you very much, too, dear meoima! I'm glad you appreciate it. I enjoy reading your analyses as well because they are super informative and helpful. I have ballet students who are figure skaters (they just cross-train in ballet), and reading your input helped me understand their needs better. I completely agree with your friend about Nathan's weird landings. I think some (not all) principles of ballet and gymnastics can be applied to figure skating, like the importance of deep plies when landing jumps. Looking at it from a physics' perspective (sorry everyone for the geek math ): Pressure=Force/Area. The smaller the area, the greater the pressure. Force= mass X acceleration. Having a deep plie lessens the impact/pressure by creating more room/area to dispel the force of jumps - weight is distributed more evenly. Skaters' weight and the high acceleration (like a quad would have) would create more force; and they would have so little area (those thin 4-mm blades) to land on. I agree! I compare them to Yuzu who I think is the epitome.

@Xen I'm also sorry for contributing to the thread 'litter' (to borrow @Fresca's wording ). Fresca, maybe we should create our own thread to geek out x100000? I'll [try] to keep this reply short (spoiler alert: I failed XD) Fresca, I have so many things I want to comment on your post, and I'm afraid I might miss something (like thanking you for adding to my forum-posting skills, fangirling about Baryshnikov and Yuzu [Yes! Such a pretty swan ], making avian comparisons of Balanchine White Swans [maybe hummingbirds? 'Coz they move so quickly] etc, etc.). Being succinct is such a tough thing Yes. Pirouettes are started from a lunge position ('Ina Bauer', haha) and straight arms, to add to the element of surprise. To Balanchine, starting from 4th is 'predictable' and he wanted to shake it up. Majority of the weight is on the front foot. Exits are with an open, big and lifted arm position and the feet should be ready for the next step. Yes! I agree with your analysis (I love how you described it as "creating shape in space"). Sophia Lucia, an amazing American dancer, is a good example too (She holds the world record for 55 consecutive pirouettes. 55!. She also trains in ballet and she can do 13 consecutive pirouettes en pointe). When she did the leg behind the head turn, I think the key is how she maintains her balance with her core while opening her hip and shoulders to hit the different arms/leg positions (going 'off-axis'), and once she reaches her desired position, she corrects her deliberately misplaced alignment to turn more times. Maybe much like a figure skater (except the spotting LOL): while spinning, they can adjust their alignment along with their positions. In general, I think ballet methods are getting more lenient with the squareness. People want the "wow" factor of a super high arabesque leg, or an a la seconde leg right next to the ear. Even the Vaganova Ballet Academy is hopping on the bandwagon. I'm relieved it's not only me then (that over-crossed ronde de jambe is soooo Balanchine). Should we also worry about his rib, too... along with his knee, foot, hip and back (did I miss anything?)?