[2010.09.28] Shirota & Makabe conversation - Exhibitions & Shows: To impress and to become stronger

[yuzurujenn]

*machine translation, inaccuracies exist*

 

 

Source: 

https://web.archive.org/web/20101105081112/http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shirota/news/20100928-OHT1T00156.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20101105081151/http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shirota/news/20101005-OHT1T00181.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20101105081157/http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shirota/news/20101012-OHT1T00188.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20101105081217/http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shirota/news/20101021-OHT1T00167.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20101104021249/http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/column/shirota/news/20101026-OHT1T00152.htm

 

 

 

Exhibitions & Shows: To impress and to become stronger 

 

After the summer ice show season, the figure skating season will soon be in full swing. Before that, we present a conversation between Kikuo Makabe (President of CIC Corporation), who has supported Japan's ice shows, and Noriko Shirota (this paper's critic). How did Japan's representative exhibitions such as Dreams on Ice and Medallist on Ice come about? What does the ice show mean to athletes? “Competition” and “show” in figure skating. Behind the scenes, there were complex and close relationships.

 

Spoiler

　-Dreams on Ice, a summer exhibition for Japanese national team skaters, is now in its seventh year. Mr. Makabe has become a familiar figure to fans, but he has been in charge of production and executive direction since the beginning. Before Dreams on Ice, were there any ice shows featuring athletes?

 

　Shirota: ``There used to be a skating rink in Korakuen, and there were shows there that featured people like Peggy Fleming (1968 Grenoble Olympic gold medallist). That was in the 70s.Then in the 80s... An exhibition was being held at the Shinagawa rink that also served as a farewell party, retirement ceremony, and debut ceremony for the skaters. Igarashi-kun (Igarashi Fumio), Ogawa Masaru-kun, as well as Yuka-chan (Sato Yuka) and Junjun (Junko Yaginuma) and others were participating in the event, and she was still young. It was originally a send-off party for the figure skating club at the Shinagawa rink, but it turned into an exhibition for the Japanese national team, which was held every year at that time. It's not a full-fledged ice show, it's just an exhibition. The tickets were handmade and we did the printing, the mothers of the skaters sold bouquets of flowers at the venue, and the fathers of the skaters were in charge of the lighting. But eventually, the Shinagawa rink disappeared.''

 

　―Around this time, Makabe-san's ice show started in 2001.

 

　Makabe: Yes, the “Candeloro Japan Tour 2001” featuring Philippe Candeloro. Let's take a look at the pamphlet from that time...There are Candeloro, Petrenko, pairs and dance champions, so the Japanese skaters are just names. There aren't even any photos (lol). You wouldn't think about it now, would you?"

　Shirota: ``That's right, Shizuka-chan (Shizuka Arakawa), Akie-chan (Akie Murakushi), Mie-chan (Mie Onda), all the senior athletes at the time, were sent to us. We, the skating federation's training department, asked for it. Anyway, Japanese skaters at that time were weak in the actual competition. What happened to the overseas skaters, especially the strong American skaters, was to participate in shows during the season when there were no matches. In the United States at that time, ice shows were really popular, and by skating there, they were able to learn how much they could jump in real life, how well they could perform, and what the audience's reaction would be like. Western athletes were able to use shows from the off-season to make skilful adjustments. However, in Japan, we practiced during the off-season and then go straight to the games. We started talking about how we should use exhibitions to make our athletes stronger."

　Makabe: “That first show was a huge loss (lol). However, the second time, we were able to overcome the difficulty of starting something and were able to invite overseas skaters and promoted the show with plenty of time. And these are the two Japanese athletes who appeared in the event in 2002.

 

　-Daisuke Takahashi and Mao Asada! This year's two Olympic medallists were in the ice show eight years ago. Takahashi was still a junior and Asada was a novice.

 

　Makabe: ``Actually, due to some circumstances that year, the show was postponed to November. Since we were already in the middle of the season, it was of course impossible to send senior skaters. So, who should we send from Japan? When the question came up, Shirota brought these two with her.''

　Shirota: ``At that time, Mao was always falling down in matches (lol). Anyway, I had to get her used to it by appearing on the show, and make her a skater who wouldn't fall during the actual show. She was still in elementary school and would be subjected to the Labor Standards Act. I remember telling Makabe-san, please do it before 9pm (lol). That’s why Mao-chan couldn't appear in the finale of the night show.''

　Makabe: “Exactly that year, starting with the November 2002 ice show, we titled it ``Fantasy on Ice.'' 

 

    Makabe (President of CIC Co., Ltd.): ``In this trend of having active Japanese athletes appear on our show, right before the Salt Lake City Olympics, we decided to hold a send-off party called ``GET A CHANCE 2002.''

　Shirota: ``Although the national team athletes were decided, both Honda and Murakami weren't necessarily at their best that year. If things continued like this, they wouldn't be able to perform well at the Olympics, so we had to do something.''

　Makabe: ``Just before the actual performance, it was decided that we should skate in front of the audience one more time, so after the Four Continents Championships in January (2002), we held the event at Yoyogi Daiichi Gymnasium on a short notice.''

 

　―That was the first send-off party that led to the current Japanese national exhibitions such as Dreams on Ice and Medallist on Ice. There was no Nobeyama Summer Festival yet, and there were no active athletes at Prince Ice World. Of course, there were no ice shows that are held in various places now.

 

　Makabe: “You'll remember this. A pamphlet from that time! Everyone from Honda and Murakami to Mao-chan, who was a novice at the time, and Takahito Mura, were all Japanese. It had photos of all the skaters, but it was actually just a piece of paper. It's just a folded item. I've kept it as a memento."

　Shirota: ``We didn't have the money or time to make a program, so we somehow got it made cheaply. We didn't have time to prepare, so we worked all night, and the staff slept on mats and blankets spread out on the floor of the gymnasium. (laughs) Well, since it was an emergency, I thought it would be okay if 1,000 people gathered in a venue that can fit 10,000 people. The funding to secure the venue was provided by CIC & TBS, who at the time had the rights to broadcast the All-Japan Championship and the World Championship, and we were prepared to lose money.

　Makabe: ``However, at that time, 2,500 people actually gathered! And at this send-off party, Honda, who was the ace of the time, performed a perfect short program (SP). Actually, he didn’t want to participate because it was right before the Olympics. The men’s schedule was fast, and the game was scheduled to start in two weeks, so I understand how he felt. Shirota forced him to do it (lol). But he still skated. I looked at him and it was a perfect performance! With the good image he got from that time, he went to Salt Lake, the Olympic venue, and he was in second place at the SP."

　Shirota: “If this was the case, he should have skated the free skate as well (lol)”

　Makabe: ``Unfortunately, he finished 4th in the free program and 4th overall, so he didn't get a medal, but even so, 2nd place in the SP must have been a big deal considering the era.''

　Shirota: ``Everyone told me, ``Takeshi can do it too!'' (laughs)

　Makabe: ``Even now, Honda always includes his special performance at the Olympics as one of his memorable performances as an athlete.''　

　Shirota: "That was dramatic. The first half of the season wasn't very good, but at the send-off party, it was perfect, and he continued the momentum to the actual show."

　Makabe: “Although it didn’t stand out that much, Suguri also placed 5th overall among girls. That was also great.”

　Shirota: ``The Salt Lake City Olympics was the first time that a Japanese girl was recognized by the ISU (International Skating Union) in an atmosphere where North America had a tailwind. Although she was number 5, they invited her to the exhibition as well. Akie-chan too. I guess she gained some confidence at the send-off party just before. I thought that I should do something to develop really strong athletes, and use shows and exhibitions to improve their ability in competitions, and Mr. Makabe’s CIC cooperated with us. However, our goals and Mr. Makabe's were different from each other. The skating federation wanted to strengthen the athletes. Mr. Makabe had dreams of entering the world of show business. His goal was to show true entertainment on the ice.'' 

 

    Makabe (President of CIC Co., Ltd.): ``Yes, that's why I tell the skating federation every now and then. We think of ``exhibitions'' and ``shows'' as completely separate, the original exhibition was on the last day of the competition, right?

　Shirota: "It's also called a gala."

　Makabe: ``So normally, there wouldn't be a need for much production. The Japanese national team's exhibition started with “GET A CHANCE 2002'” in front of Salt Lake City, and ``Medallist on Ice'' began in December of that year, "Dreams on Ice" started in June 2004. Dreams on Ice is not a gala after the game, but since it is called "Japan National Team Exhibition", it should be held primarily for the purpose of strengthening the team. That's what I think. Whether it's the Four Continents or the World Juniors, it's meaningful to have the athletes who represent the national team appear in front of everyone. That’s what it's like to be an "exhibition. “Athletes who are popular because of their good qualities. If we were to call just the skaters, it would become a ``show.'' However, in Dreams on Ice and Medallist on Ice, we call all the skaters who represented the major international tournaments that season. That is the biggest reinforcement. I think so.”

 

　-Athletes also work hard because they can participate in Dream and Medallist. On the other hand, no matter how famous a skater is, he won't be able to compete if he doesn't have good results. 

 

　Shirota: “The skaters also said that they wanted to participate in the Medallist on Ice rather than the All-Japan Championship. The All-Japan Championship has its own unique fear, but they said they should do their best because they want to compete in the exhibition that is waiting for them afterwards. I've heard stories of athletes who have been competing for a long time not getting good results one year, and being unable to compete as a medallist is the worst shock...

　Makabe: ``I'm going to oversell this, but this year's Dreams on Ice was amazing, wasn't it? The Shin-Yokohama rink has seats close to the audience, and the venue is great, but I didn't think it's going to be as exciting as it was.''

　Shirota: ``That's because Makabe-san and his team have been producing so well! And I think the skaters have grown as well. Even in exhibitions, each of them has started skating with a sense of self-awareness as athletes. After all, when it gets this exciting, the audience is excited. They have to skate while also watching the reactions of others. And when their rival who skated before them skates really well, they feel like they have to skate just as well! That kind of feeling carries over into the competition as well."

　Makabe: ``By gathering only the top skaters, even if it's an exhibition, there's a desire to not lose to each other. Also, these days, the audience is paying close attention to us. Even popular skaters don't get much of a standing ovation if they make a mistake.'' Even if a skater isn't that well-known, if he's good, everyone will stand up for him."

　Shirota: ``In the beginning, there were times when the audience didn't really get excited when we wanted applause...But things have changed a lot now. The skaters were also embarrassed and shy about being in the spotlight at first. It used to be difficult, but now everyone is trying to be bold. I feel nostalgic for those days (lol). I feel like they should be a little more modest. I've always wanted that to happen. I was able to do it, but when the time came it was quite complicated (lol).”

　Makabe: “I understand that. Nowadays, it has become difficult to get all the skaters to be trained.”

　Shirota: ``Before, everyone would be happy to participate and say things like, ``I'm happy to be able to participate, thank you very much!'', but these days many skaters want to take time off because they're going to create a program or have busy schedules.”

　Makabe: “Especially for Dreams on Ice, it is difficult to gather people together before the performance. I want the skaters who represent Japan to appear no matter what, so I am desperate. Moreover, this year, the skating federation's awards ceremony, which is usually held at the same time, was held in April, so I feared that the athletes wouldn't be able to attend. Fuji Television, which owns the broadcasting rights, was also worried, asking, ``Are you okay? Will everyone come?''. In extreme terms, it's more difficult to recruit Japanese skaters than foreign skaters these days! Stéphane Lambiel always comes every year."

　Shirota: “At first, we had Japanese skaters mixed in with the overseas skaters, but now that has changed!”

 

　- Mr. Makabe even goes to training bases overseas to recruit skaters, right?

 

　Makabe: “Let the skaters you want to appear appear. Whether it’s a show or an exhibition, we spare no effort to make that happen. Just go see them, meet them, talk to them... In the past, coaches such as Nikolai Morozov were reluctant to send the skaters back to Japan, but after meeting and talking with them properly, they are now more cooperative. When I was told that we would be doing a show again this year, Miki Ando was the first to appear. But even though it's difficult, Dreams on Ice is an exhibition that I especially don't want to lose. On TV, Dreams on Ice is the only show not attached to a match that is broadcasted nationwide. Medallist on Ice is attached to All-Japan, so it's watched that way, and it gets decent ratings. But Dreams is pretty tough because there aren't any games before it, and especially when it's the off-season, so everyone forgets about skating...” 

    Makabe (President of CIC Co., Ltd.): ``Dreams on Ice is an ``exhibition'' aimed at strengthening the skaters. Of course, it incorporates some elements of a show. However, when it comes to an ``ice show'', it needs to have the quality of a proper show.”

　Shirota: ``Although amateur athletes will appear, it's still a professional world. It won't work without a story or a concept.''

　Makabe: “There was a time when we partnered with Champions on Ice, one of the oldest shows in the United States, and often invited members of Champions.”

　Shirota: As you can tell from the name Champions, only skaters who have some kind of title can skate. It was a show that even famous athletes wanted to appear in, saying, ``I want to be on this show! ‘I'm proud to attend a game wearing a jersey with the Champions on ICE logo on it."

　Makabe: ``It was a show that featured both current amateur athletes and professionals. After the world championships were over, there will be a one-month performance gathering of all the successful athletes to keep the excitement alive. It was a great show.”

　Shirota: The predecessor of Champions on Ice was the World Tour sponsored by ISU after the World Championships. The skaters who placed 1st to 4th in each event at the World Championships formed teams and toured all over the United States and Europe. This was around the time when Midori-chan was active."

　Makabe: “It was amazing back then. We toured all over the world, from the west to the east.”

　Shirota: “Midori-chan was still young, so she came and went because of school commitments. Back then, athletes didn’t have agents like they do now, so people from the skating federation took turns following her around. The ice show that started from there became the "Champions".

　Makabe: “However, Champions on Ice disappeared in 2008. I think a big reason why this happened was because we relied too much on one star. In the United States, Michelle Kwan is an absolutely popular skater. She's a great champion. She won the world championship five times, but because she didn't win gold at the Olympics, she became a heroine... It was fine until they made such a skater an exclusive member. By paying a considerable amount of money to Kwan and focusing on making her stand out, the production, which was the essential part of the show, turned into something like an exhibition. I was left thinking to myself, ``This is that Champions?'' When popularity declines and tickets stop selling, all you can do is cut back on expenses for things like lighting. All I need is just a pin spot. When it comes to saving wherever you can, things become even poorer.”

　Shirota: “Just a pin spot… It’s like the handmade exhibition that the Japan Skating Federation used to do in the 1980s. Or the exhibition at the beginning of the NHK Trophy.”

　Makabe: “If we drop that kind of quality, the audience will run away from us. That’s the only thing we can’t do. That’s what I thought when I first started doing shows. In addition, no matter how big a star is, the value of the product will decline over time. Michelle is still popular, but she's still not as popular as she was in her heyday."

　Shirota: “And since Michelle was so popular, if she doesn’t appear...”

　Makabe: "In the end, the show itself collapsed. I thought about continuing it only in Japan, but if it's not happening in the United States, there's no point in doing it. With that in mind, I started to revive the name of Fantasy on Ice, which I worked on in 2002. I put it on hold for a while in 2003, but since then I have created shows in various forms, but if I were to revive this name that I felt so attached to when I first worked on it, I wanted it to be something with some content.”

　Shirota: “Not as an exhibition, but as a proper show.”

　Makabe: “I was aiming for the right time to bring it back. I wanted to create a show that I was satisfied with, something that was vastly different from the shows I had done up until now! I didn’t want to bring it back unless I could do it to that extent.”

　Shirota: “This year, it will be held first in Niigata and Fukui. I went to Niigata and it was amazing.”

 

　-I was surprised to see such a collaboration between Gospellers and the skaters, and how a familiar star could show off such a different side. There was a lot of talk about how figure skating can be enjoyed in such a fun way.

 

　Makabe: “The musicians and the skaters were amazing. Not only Plushenko, but also Lambiel, who have travelled all over the world as professionals, so they are highly polished. These skaters competed and showed great performances in the flow of the show.”

　Shirota: ``Everyone becomes more refined as they get used to the eyes of others. Johnny Weir is one of the skaters who appeared this time. He has become able to show good things to his audience with a feeling of care for them. This is a collaboration between so many skaters and musicians (the Niigata show was with the Gospellers, and the Fukui show was with Dima Bilan and Edvin Marton). In the future, if it becomes known as a real Japanese show, different from an exhibition, we might even be able to expand to the world!"

    Makabe (President of CIC Co., Ltd.): ``However, there are still great shows in the world. For example, Switzerland's ``Art on Ice''. In terms of skating and joint collaboration with artists, they are better at one or two shows. As for the musicians, Art on Ice has three or four groups performing in one show! The way they spend money on stage is also crazy. There are five performances in five days in Zurich. The venue is filled up with 11,000 people per performance!”

　Shirota: "It's Europe after all! Is it because the culture is widespread, or is it like having concerts or ballet?"

　Makabe: ``It's important that Stéphane Lambiel and Sarah Meier from the country are now part of the group, but the production is also great. The rink isn't that big, and the stage width is 20 meters. Our upcoming ``Fantasy'' is quite large, but it’s 12 meters long.”

　Shirota: ``It's like Cirque du Soleil in Las Vegas. The set for the show ``O'' cannot be moved from Las Vegas, but it has been praised for a long time because of the splendour of the production. It’s a real show, isn't it?''

　Makabe: In addition to Zurich, Art on Ice will also be held in the lakeside town of St. Moritz in early February, and the stage is the natural ice of the lake. Lighting is limited as it is outdoors, but it’s popular because it’s on the lake, giving it a magical atmosphere. I was also invited...During the event, there are many people participating in winter sports such as skiing, so it is difficult to catch a train to St. Moritz (laughs). Unlike Zurich, they can only accommodate a few hundred people at a time, but it's a great show."

　Shirota: “I would like to go see it sometime too! Wouldn’t it be great to do it on a lake? I feel like skating on a lake. Just like in the old days… (lol)”

　Makabe: "Let's go next year (lol). Art on Ice started 15 years ago, and I hear that it started at a really small venue. Of course, Stéphane wasn’t there, and Dennis Bielman, a famous Swiss skater of the past, had also retired, so there were no skaters who could attract customers. So, that’s why they started calling people by their artist's names. Moreover, the producer, Oliver Horner, was a former skater and was completely new to the music industry, so he hired someone who was knowledgeable about music as a partner, and started casting with a focus on music. From there, it turned into a full-fledged production. Oliver said, "I aimed for a real show that didn’t care about the popularity of the skaters on it, and I succeeded".

　Shirota: "Certainly. There aren't always athletes who can stand out. But if you can attract customers by the name of the show rather than the skater's name, the show will be successful no matter what era it is."

　Makabe: ``Well, we've been asked if we would like to do Art on Ice in Japan. But we can't bring Art on Ice in its entirety. Even if we bring famous European artists to Japan, it's not going to go well, but we can make use of that essence and make it a show that Japanese audiences want to see.''

　Shirota: “We have to arrange it in Makabe style rather than leaving it as is.”

　Makabe: “However, that wonderful stage of Art on Ice is the face of the show, so I definitely want to make the most of it. To that end, Fantasy on Ice, which is similar to Art on Ice, will be the test for what’s next.”

　Shirota: “In that case, Art on Ice will come to Japan...”

　Makabe: ``Of course, we have to overcome a number of hurdles that we have never experienced before, such as the large amount of expenses and seats, so we are still waiting to see how things turn out.''

　Shirota: "I'm looking forward to it. However, Switzerland is a cold country, so everyone skates. It's precisely because skating has a long history as a culture in Switzerland it can be said that real ice shows have taken root even without star skaters. It's different from Japan, isn't it? Fantasy on Ice was revived this year as a step toward inviting Art on Ice, and as a culmination of the work we've accumulated so far.''

　Makabe: "First of all, the Fukui performance was with the Gospellers. I have worked with Ikuko Kawai and various other artists, but I still don't have any track record in the music world. Some fans say that if you’re going to spend money on musicians, you should spend it on recruiting more skaters. Furthermore, when it comes to local performances, some people ask if well-known skaters like Mao Asada and Daisuke Takahashi will be coming.

 

　-But you didn't want it to be just an ice show with all the stars. The aim was to collaborate with musicians to create a world completely different from that of an exhibition.

 

　Makabe: ``That's right. Out of the many candidates for musicians, we decided to invite the Gospellers, who said “I’d like to try it!”. And then we decided which of the performers they would skate with and what they would skate to. The challenge was to ask Junko Yaginuma, who is a close friend of the Gospellers since college and has dreamed of doing a show with them for many years. As expected, she chose the song ``1, 2, 3, For 5" herself. It’s an up-tempo song that makes you wonder if the Gospellers had a song like this. We send potential songs in advance to foreign skaters like Plushenko and Weir who will be skating at the live show, and have them create a program just for them."

　Shirota: ``When it comes to skating live, it's difficult to choose songs. However, it's been almost 10 years since the first ``Candeloro Japan Tour 2001'' to this year's Dreams on Ice and Fantasy on Ice. During that time, Mr. Makabe’s CIC aimed to establish the ice show as a show in Japan, and the skating federation focused on strengthening athletes, regardless of competition or exhibition.

　Makabe: “That’s what it is.”

　Shirota: ``I repeat, the purpose of the two is different. Mr. Makabe has been thinking about the exhibition and the show separately. It doesn't matter which one (lol), but just let the athletes skate where the audience can see them, and show them what is important.'' The federation wants the skaters to learn this. However, Makabe-san's show received a good response, and the more ice shows there are, the more opportunities the skaters will have. The skaters must be able to properly participate in the production as a show, and I'm sure Makabe-san had a hard time as well. Also, the federation's exhibition is causing quite a bit of trouble. It was suddenly decided and I was like, ``We only have a few days left, so get ready!'' (laughs) I believed in Mr. Makabe and told the federation, ``We'll definitely make it in time.''

　Makabe: ``The timing was just right. In 2001, the time when I wanted to invite Candeloro and do a show even if it was impossible, coincided with the time when the skating federation wanted to strengthen its presence.''

　Shirota: ``In the beginning, I was prepared to make a loss. It’s true, now that I think about it, I thought, ``Makabe-san, you're doing a great job. There was a rumour in the federation that you really took the plunge (lol). I think he was determined to take the plunge, both as a director and someone in charge of raising costs, regardless of profitability.”

　Makabe: ``I knew that I was going to make a loss. But that first big deficit has led me to where I am today. Everything requires courage. Also, I have been blessed with many encounters. In the beginning, Candeloro. After that, Stéphane Lambiel. Skaters who not only have good results in competition, but can also perform at shows. Of course, we can't rely on them completely, but I think we were able to put on a better show because we were blessed with good people. I also feel like I was taken along by Shirota and her friends' ``Let's do it!'' (laughs)

　Shirota: “We were able to overcome even the most difficult times because we always felt passionately about each other. We felt that our skaters had a hard time not getting good results, and Mr. Makabe struggled because he was in the red. All of those feelings have led to what we do now. Because of the memories of difficult times, we can try new things again. However, Mr. Makabe seems to be steadily making progress in creating a show that will be appreciated even without stars... We need to constantly develop good skaters so that people don't say, 'We don't need Japanese players anymore!'