[2024.11.07] Yuzuru Hanyu x Ajinomoto VP Kurihara Hidefumi Interview

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Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001231.html

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20241107125155/https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001231.html

 

 

"Yuzuru Hanyu: The Only Male Figure Skater to Achieve the Super Slam and His Career Highlights... Celebrating his 30th birthday, National Tour Kicks Off in One Month"

 

Professional figure skater Yuzuru Hanyu (29), who won the men's Winter Olympic gold medal twice in a row, reminisced about the 2022 Beijing Olympics, expressing his gratitude for the support he received in terms of conditioning, which he described as the 'culmination of his training.' He recently had a conversation with Kurihara Hidefumi (48), team leader of the "Victory Project (VP)" by Ajinomoto, which supports the Japanese Olympic team. In the interview, Hanyu looks back at his journey to attempt the unprecedented quadruple Axel (4.5-turn jump), leading to a world’s first certified "4A." With the pre-season for the 2026 Milan-Cortina Olympics now underway, the insights gained by supporting Hanyu’s two Olympic golds will continue to shine brightly for the next generation of Japanese athletes. (Honorifics omitted) [Written by: Kinoshita Jun]

 

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Yuzuru Hanyu (羽生結弦)
Born December 7, 1994, in Izumi Ward, Sendai City. He began figure skating at the age of 4. He moved to senior level in 2010. He has won the All-Japan Championships 6 times. In 2020, he became the first male figure skater to achieve the "Super Slam" by winning all major junior and senior titles: Junior Championships (2 titles), the Olympics, World Championships, Grand Prix Final, and Four Continents Championships. In 2016, he became the first to successfully land the quadruple loop. He also set the world record for the highest score in the Short Program (SP), Free Program (FP), and Total Score (total 19 times). After returning to Japan from Toronto, Canada, during the COVID-19 pandemic, he honed his skills in his hometown of Sendai. He graduated from Miyagi Prefecture's Tohoku High School and Waseda University's School of Human Sciences (distance learning program). On July 19, 2022, he turned professional, and in February 2023, he held the first-ever solo skating performance at Tokyo Dome in history. This December 7, on his 30th birthday, he will kick off his national tour Yuzuru Hanyu ICE STORY 3rd – Echoes of Life – TOUR (3 cities) at Saitama Super Arena. He is 172 cm tall and has blood type B.

 

Kurihara Hidefumi (栗原秀文)
Born May 2, 1976, in Itabashi Ward, Tokyo. He devoted himself to baseball from elementary school until graduating from Rikkyo University. He joined Ajinomoto in 1999, working in sales and the "Amino Vital" division, before becoming involved in the "Victory Project" (VP) in 2004. His failure to properly manage his conditioning during his university days, when he aspired to be a professional baseball player, became the driving force behind his work in supporting athletes. He is now considered the engine of the VP. For the 2024 Paris Olympics, he was in charge of supporting athletes including the judo siblings Abe, Tashiro Miku, and Tatsuru Saito, as well as the swimming delegation.

 

Ajinomoto Co., Inc. "Victory Project"
Launched in 2003 in collaboration with the Japanese Olympic Committee (JOC), the "Victory Project" is a nutritional and dietary support initiative for the Japanese national team. In 2010, the Ajinomoto National Training Center (NTC) opened the " Kachimeshi (Victory Meal)" cafeteria. Since the 2016 Rio Olympics, they have set up the "JOC G-Road Station" nutritional support facilities at both summer and winter Olympic venues, providing Japanese light meals with the support of VP members, chefs, and registered dietitians.

 

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Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001227.html 

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20241107125417/https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001227.html

 

 

"Yuzuru Hanyu: Reminiscing about the 'culmination' of the Beijing Olympics and a behind-the-scenes look at his 4A challenge with Ajinomoto VP Kurihara Hidefumi / Interview 1"

 

Hanyu has walked a solitary path through three Olympic Games, exploring nutrition and refining both his mind and body. In the 2014 Sochi Olympics, he became the first Asian male skater to win gold. At the PyeongChang Games in 2018, he became the first man in 66 years to win consecutive gold medals. In Beijing in 2022, he made Olympic history by becoming the first to be certified with a quadruple axel. Alongside him, providing support, were Kurihara Hidefumi and the team from Ajinomoto's Victory Project (VP).

 

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Kurihara: Someone told me that there was an athlete who was having some concerns about nutrition, body building, and health. That’s when I was introduced to Hanyu.

 

Hanyu: That’s right. It was before Sochi... before that. I was 17.

 

It was the end of April 2012. It was the summer after he had moved from Sendai to Toronto, Canada. At the time, he was a second-year high school student with no interest in food at all.

 

Kurihara: The first thing he told me was, "I don't really like to eat."

 

Hanyu: I don't have a strong stomach to begin with, so sometimes I can eat and sometimes I can't. It was right after I'd gone to Canada, and there were times when the local ingredients and cuisines "suited me" and "didn't suit me." In that situation, we started by thinking about what was easy to eat, then how and when to take in the nutrients. When I couldn't eat, I was taught a lot, such as how to eat supplements. In our sport, we need to restrict ourselves (for jumping), and I was afraid of my body becoming heavy. I had a strong image of food as a diet rather than nutrition (intake).

 

Ajinomoto has been supporting the Japanese national team since 2003, helping athletes with "food and amino acids." This year marked the 22nd anniversary of their partnership with the Olympics, starting from the 2004 Athens Games to the Paris 2024 Games. Hanyu has been receiving "exclusive" support from them for over 10 years in winter figure skating.

 

Kurihara: Until Sochi, we basically focused only on physical and mental “health” and took the step of “eating three well-balanced meals every day.  Figure skating in particular is a competition in which you express your emotions and worldview to judges and spectators through your performance. So, you absolutely had to be mentally healthy as well.

 

Hanyu: Leading up to Pyeongchang, the themes shifted to "weight" and "activity level." When did you start that?

 

Kurihara: It was two years after Sochi. While managing weight and body composition, I quantified daily training volume and intensity as 'load (stress)' and monitored changes in condition over time, aligning it with performance.

 

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Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001228.html

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20241107131223/https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001228.html

 

 

"Yuzuru Hanyu: The Dream of Achieving the Unprecedented Quadruple Axel... The Key Is 'Tendon Reflex,' Along with Carb Restriction and Pressure Training / Interview 2"

 

Hanyu has won every title on the ice, including the six major titles at world championships known as the Super Slam, but his final dream in competition was to successfully complete a quadruple axel.

 

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Hanyu: In terms of nutritional management, the approach leading up to the PyeongChang Olympics became the basis. Around the ages of 23 or 24, after winning two consecutive gold medals, I started saying, 'I don’t think I like feeling heavy.' Like a marathon, it’s a sport where the damage to the internal organs is greater due to constant shaking, so I also took care of my internal organs (to prevent food from remaining in my stomach). We also discussed whether it would be better to stay at the weight when I was performing at my best, or whether it would be better to build up muscle strength, as I was aiming for a quadruple axel.

 

Kurihara: I could tell at a glance that you had trained your legs a lot before the Beijing Olympics, such as squats to strengthen the hamstrings (back of the thighs), so I was surprised and you said, “You can tell? But…” And then you added, "The muscle strength for jumping is looking good. Now it’s all about the tendons." I was just about to say that the key to jumping a 4A is "tendon reflexes." Apparently, you had been thinking the same thing.

 

Hanyu: In terms of global trends, research is progressing rapidly and some things are being scientifically proven.

 

"Tendons" connect muscles and bones and act like springs, storing and reusing elastic energy. To use this tendon reflex to jump the quadruple Axel, Hanyu actively took amino acids and worked to strengthen his body in preparation for the Beijing Olympics. This moment was one of synergy between Hanyu’s deep understanding of body mechanics and Kurihara’s suggestions.

 

Hanyu laughed, saying, "I’ve been brainwashed by Kurihara," and added, "I’m really hungry to know ‘how can I improve.’ My own knowledge was never enough. That’s why I asked Kurihara and also did my own research. We shared everything, and it helped us refine things."

 

On June 1, 2021, before the Beijing Olympic season began, he held an online meeting with his trainer. Everything was aimed for the success of the quadruple Axel.

 

Kurihara: We discussed everything from tendon reflex to intense glycolytic training and aerobic training. I also developed a new amino acid that makes the tendons healthier, so I designed my training with the hypothesis that it would definitely benefit the 4A.

 

Hanyu: There was interval training, low-carb (sugar restriction) to pressure (blood flow restriction) training and heart rate monitoring, and both explosive and endurance training. By then, it was no longer just about 'health'; the foundation was already laid, and everything was built on top of that. (The Beijing Olympics) was the culmination of it all.

 

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Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001229.html

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20241107135935/https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001229.html

 

 

"Yuzuru Hanyu: A Touching Exhibition, ‘The best performance until the very end’ – Never-Before-Revealed Story / Interview 3"

 

"Life isn't all about being rewarded. But I’m happy now even though I wasn’t rewarded."

 

Such was the famous quote that emerged from Hanyu at the Beijing Olympics. He ended up in 4th place. He was struck by bad luck when his quadruple Salchow was blocked by a hole in the ice. Although he missed out on a medal in his third consecutive Olympics with a surprising 8th place finish in the short program, his challenge to focus all his energy on the men’s free skate on February 10, 2022, amidst the COVID-19 pandemic, remains a vivid moment. The world’s first certified "4A" (quadruple Axel) was etched into Olympic history.

 

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Kurihara: There’s something I’ve really wanted to ask you. The 4A was officially certified in Beijing… but it was still a disappointing result. Yet, you still contacted me for the exhibition (in 10 days), saying, "Kuri-san, I’ll gather energy again" and "I’ll do it." I think it was 3 or 4 days after the free skate. How did you feel during that process of replenishing energy and glycogen in the days that followed?

 

Hanyu: Honestly, I was really disappointed with my performance. Of course, I didn’t plan to do the 4A, but while some people see exhibitions as a kind of festival, for me it’s a place to showcase the qualities of an athlete. I thought that "all impressions would be decided" by how well I could show myself there. I was feeling down, and I thought to myself, "Why did I sprain my ankle again?" (He injured his right ankle before the free skate). But I couldn’t let my guard down. I thought, "I'll give it my best until the very last performance."

 

Kurihara: I was watching it on TV in the cafeteria of the athlete's village, and I was crying my eyes out. It was the best performance. It’s a moment I will never forget in my life, and I absolutely wanted to tell you that.

 

Even now, after turning professional and successfully performing the first-ever solo ice shows, that determination has not changed.

 

Hanyu: Even now, I’m still in that same mindset. How can I deliver the best performance until the very last moment? I’ve continued along that path. My right ankle was really hurting, but more than that, I wanted to show something amazing. Athletes compete in competitions with the support of so many people, including Kuri-san. In a way, I wished I could have given everything in the free skate, but I couldn’t, and it was frustrating. So, I wanted to put everything into the exhibition. I wanted to repay everyone who’s supported me by showing my best every time and producing results. That was both the pressure and a driving force for me.

 

[yuzurujenn]

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Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001230.html

Archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20241107142559/https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202411060001230.html

 

 

"Yuzuru Hanyu: Insights from the Two-Time Olympic Champion – 'Research Based on Me' – Knowledge Accumulated as Guidance for Shows and His Juniors / Interview 4"

 

At the Beijing Olympics, Kurihara, who supported the entire Team Japan, entered the athlete village and worked with a chef based outside the village to provide Hanyu with 'victory meals.' He worked hard to maintain and even increase his lean body mass. Similar to the 2018 PyeongChang Olympics, where the men's events were scheduled in the morning, Hanyu was required to wake up around 4 a.m., and Kurihara carefully coordinated the schedule with him.

 

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Hanyu: The Olympics have a different schedule compared to regular competitions, so for example, there’s a routine for athletes, like 'meals must be eaten a certain number of hours before.' But often, it's not possible to follow that. We had many discussions about things like 'Should we have a snack here?' and other details.

 

Kurihara: We even went as far as discussing areas close to the science behind it in detail. All that’s left was to ensure that you were sent out onto the ice in the best shape. That was my role.

 

Hanyu: In figure skating, I was basically the only one at competitions (with exclusive support), so I think the tension while waiting for the results must have been different. It was always like, "I did what I had to do, now all I can do is wait" (laughs). I probably seemed "troublesome," but I learned a lot. I didn’t even know how many calories were in a bowl of rice, but they helped build the foundation for me to think about physical conditioning.

 

On the other hand, the insights gained from this support were fully accumulated on Ajinomoto’s side.

 

Hanyu: Every week, I would submit data on my training load and body composition and combine it with my activities to assess how my condition was. I think it probably became a part of the research as well. Did the formula match the intensity that an athlete actually feels? Even though I was only 19, I was already an Olympic gold medalist. So, over the course of more than 10 years, I think they conducted research using me as a base, examining body composition, activity levels, and calorie consumption.

 

After turning professional, he continues to shine in unprecedented ice shows, performing alone for over 90 minutes. His national tour, announced on October 4th, will begin on December 7th, the day he turns 30. He will once again prove his evolution. In the world of competition, the trial and error between Hanyu and Kurihara will be passed down as a success story. At the 2026 Milan-Cortina d'Ampezzo Olympics, it will serve as a clear guide to light the way for his juniors.

 

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2024.12.25

 

Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/premium/sports/figure/news/202412220000629.html

(paid article. partially translated)

 

 

[Full text released] Conversation "Yuzuru Hanyu x Hidefumi Kurihara" Meeting at age 17 who loved yakiniku and sushi / Part 1

 

Yuzuru Hanyu (29), a professional figure skater who has won the men's gold medal at the Winter Olympics for two consecutive years, spoke with Hidefumi Kurihara (48), team leader of Ajinomoto Co.'s Victory Project (VP), who has long been his "exclusive" supporter. This special feature looks back on the behind-the-scenes events leading up to his attempt at the unattained quad axel (four and a half rotation jump = 4A) and achieving world first certification. We will be delivering the full story, including unreleased parts, over three weeks. (Titles omitted except for questions)

 

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The reason why I liked "Yakiniku and Sushi"

-- (They meet again and shake hands firmly) Thank you very much.

 

Hanyu: Please! Thank you. Oh, is this okay? It's not recording... (he points out one camera that wasn't turned on).

 

Kurihara: As expected (laughs). Thank you again!

 

--Today, let's start with how you two met. How has Hanyu grown as an athlete through the project with Kurihara? What kind of nutritional support was behind that growth? Was it a diet? I'd like to delve into that.

 

Kurihara: "I heard from someone that there was an athlete who seemed to be struggling a bit with nutrition and body development or health, so that’s how we were introduced and met."

 

Hanyu: "Yes. It was before Sochi… or maybe before that. I was 17, I believe."

 

Kurihara: We met in the summer.

 

Hanyu: Yes, that's right.

- At the time, you weren’t very interested in food as a high school student. How did you view food back then as a figure skater?

 

Hanyu: First of all, female athletes, especially... and it's the same for men, but we're in a sport that places restrictions on us, so we're afraid of becoming too heavy. I experienced that feeling every day while training. So in that sense, my image of food wasn’t about nutrition, but more about dieting in the beginning.

- After meeting Kurihara, what changed?

 

Hanyu: Initially, I didn’t know anything about nutrition or what I should be eating, or when and what I should eat. There were so many things I didn’t understand. So, I learned a lot from the knowledge he provided, and I also became more mindful of my food choices myself.

- At 17 years old, what was your favorite food?

 

Hanyu: I liked gyoza (dumplings). Even now, during shows, I’m really grateful because he goes out of his way to make gyoza for me, and he has developed various menu options for me. But back then, there was no gyoza, and he went out of his way to make it for me (laughs).

Kurihara: At that time, when I asked him about his favorite foods, he said "yakitori and sushi." When I asked "Why?" he said, "Because the portions are small."

Since the portions are small, for example, with steak, it would be served as a big piece ("don"), and since he was a perfectionist, he couldn't feel satisfied unless he finished everything that was put in front of him. So, when a large portion like that is served, he would feel bad and think, "Hmm," if he didn't finish it all. That's why, he chose things with smaller portions that he could finish quickly and feel satisfied.

 

Hanyu: Yes. And also hot pot.

 

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2025.01.01

 

Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/premium/sports/figure/news/202412300000581.html

 

 

[Full text released] Conversation "Yuzuru Hanyu x Hidefumi Kurihara" - Was it the strength from back then or now... the discussions before the 4A challenge / Part 2

 

Yuzuru Hanyu (29), the professional figure skater who achieved back-to-back gold medals in the Winter Olympics, had a conversation with Hidefumi Kurihara (48), the team leader of Ajinomoto Co., Inc.'s "Victory Project (VP)," with whom he has long received exclusive support.

 

We will be delivering the full story, including previously unpublished portions, over the course of three weeks as a special feature, looking back at the behind-the-scenes events when he attempted the unprecedented quad axel (four-and-a-half rotation jump = 4A) at the 2022 Beijing Olympics and achieved the world’s first certification.

 

Part 2 covers the trial and error leading up to the 2018 PyeongChang Olympics and the discussions that eventually led to his 4A challenge four years later. (Honorifics are omitted except in the questions.)

 

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Meals Adjusted in Grams as Age Progresses

 

-Regarding your diet. In general, many people reduce their rice intake, or cut out white rice and carbohydrates in order to lose weight and improve their agility. On the other hand, there is also the idea that carbohydrates are important because they fuel the body. As you work on strengthening your body, you build muscle, which leads to weight gain... and that can make you heavier. This also has an effect on your jumps, possibly creating an unconscious resistance. I imagine you've gone through this. How did you handle it?

 

Hanyu: I’ve always been on the lighter side in terms of weight. I think in the beginning, I lacked muscle strength, but since I was still in my teens, I was still in a growth phase. It was a time when I was working hard and getting stronger, improving, and being able to jump higher. So, I never really thought about restricting my food intake at that time. However, as I got older, around 23 or 24, I started to say things like, "I might not like being too heavy." That’s when I started to gradually impose some restrictions, like, "I can’t increase my training volume here, so let’s keep it at this level," or, "Let’s try reducing the total amount of rice during competitions, like reducing the grams." During competitions, my digestive system wasn’t very strong, so food would often remain in my stomach until the next day. It would feel heavy in my stomach, which happened quite often, so I did make adjustments in that regard, especially concerning jumps.

 

Kurihara: Yes, there was. When you land, you experience a tremendous amount of G (gravitational acceleration). After the jump.

 

Hanyu: It's like trail running or marathons, sports where you’re constantly being shaken and subjected to damage. In those kinds of sports, the impact is more likely to be bigger. So, in that regard, I think a lot of care was given to taking care of my internal organs.

 

Kurihara: So, as for myself personally, I also needed to gauge exactly how much was left in the stomach. I honestly wonder how many grams of food are still there? After skating and landing, I’d check if there was any discomfort. Even during competitions, you go for practice, right? That means you’ve eaten beforehand. And that food is still in your stomach, so you end up practicing while it's in the digestion process. Afterward, I would ask, “How did it go? Was it okay?” and you’d sometimes say, “Maybe it felt a little heavy?” or something like that.

 

Hanyu: Well, I never actually said I felt "heavy" before a competition even once. I’d always say, “I’m fine,” “I’m good,” “I’m in good shape” (laughs).

 

Kurihara: We were really just checking on the balance.

 

Hanyu: Well, there were times when my weight would definitely show a noticeable change. Our competitions would often end around 9 or 10 PM, and then there would be a press conference. By the time I got home and ate, it would be around midnight. Then, if practice the next day was in the afternoon, I’d have to eat by around 9 AM. On those days, when I weighed myself, I’d often find that I was heavier, and think, "Okay, it’s a bit heavier, so let’s adjust things this way." I was probably calculating things like that quite a bit.

 

 

Images that could be shared even from a distance

 

– Up until Sochi, the theme was "health." What was the strategy leading up to PyeongChang?

 

Kurihara: We managed his weight and body composition, and at the same time, we quantified the amount and intensity of his training for the day, turning it into a daily training load (intensity) and recorded it. This allowed us to visualize his condition and monitor changes over time. Since we couldn’t directly gauge his performance, it was important for him to align the data with his own experience. Once we began doing this, it really helped us understand how nutrition is related to his performance.

 

Hanyu: Yes. In the end, that was the key for me, strategically. It was about deciding what to eat and when. Imagining how much I was skating at a certain weight and what kind of food I should consume for that specific weight management was part of the plan.

 

Kurihara: Yes, that’s right. For example, from the conversation earlier, "Since the schedule is like this, let’s increase the intake a bit starting two days before the competition" or "But here, we’ll cut back a bit," things like that would happen.

 

Hanyu: Like, eating right after arriving by plane. I wasn’t particularly good at eating the meals on the plane, and with the time difference, it was sometimes hard to eat. So, when I said I was pretty hungry, they’d say things like, "Let’s feed you a lot now, while we can," or "Once we get to the competition venue from Canada, let’s go for a delicious dish, something Hanyu likes!" 

 

– And that's how you headed towards the PyeongChang Olympics.

 

Hanyu: I wrote the training load every day, although sometimes I forgot (laughs). The task of writing and submitting it was the hardest part. But as I looked at it, I realized, "Ah, this is a good weight," or "At this point, I’m not feeling great, regardless of my weight." That period really helped me understand how the nutritional value for my muscles accumulated, allowing me to 'explode' at the right moment and recognizing when I 'dropped off'. Seeing everything quantified was really important. Before, we often had meetings in the summer about how to approach the season, but this time I was continuously working on it, studying and writing, while getting feedback from Kuri-san. During that time, my knowledge about things like my weight, nutrition, and meal timing really deepened.

 

Kurihara: He was usually training in Toronto, so he was practicing away from us. But even though we were apart, looking at the data and numbers, I could visualize how he was doing. Because I could form an image, when it came time for a competition, I could already imagine where he wanted to be for the season and create strategies based on that. Also, in his daily logs, he would write the time and intensity of his training, and he would add details like "today was like this, and like that." He would write a lot of facts, that makes me think, "I see, I see." I think about half of it was probably like his personal diary, right? So, when he gathered everything for a week, there were a lot of "aha!" moments for me. Among those moments, there was one particular realization I had leading up to the PyeongChang Olympics. Every time we met, I’d look at Yuzuru’s body form and say, "Ah, this is what it looks like now," and we’d have that kind of exchange. I’d often say things like, "Wow, your hamstrings have really come along," or "Looking good," but at one point, I noticed that his glute muscles, his buttocks, had really developed. I thought, "He’s been training a lot for this.

 

Hanyu: Was it the World Championships? I think it was before Helsinki. What year was that?

 

- 2017.

 

Hanyu: Yes, it was a year before PyeongChang.

 

Kurihara: I heard he was doing an immense amount of training at that time. His leg and core muscles developed so much that I thought, "Whoa!" It aligned with the data. There were days when his training load was high, and then he’d tell me, "Actually, I was doing this," and I was like, "Ah, that’s what was happening!" (laughs). That was definitely a "wow" moment. He had changed his training and his body composition, and his lean mass increased drastically, muscle mass grew, and his form changed, which showed in his performance. It was really fascinating.

 

Hanyu: After all, the approach we took back then has really become the foundation for my nutrition management. When I think back to that time and apply it to aiming for the quadruple axel (in the Beijing Olympics four years later), it was still relevant. There was a debate over whether the weight at which I performed my best back then was ideal, or whether the weight after building more muscle would work better. We discussed it a lot, but in the end, we decided that "the way I was back then was better." A lot of things happened during that time.

 

Kurihara: In the process of building the body, we were specifically aiming for the quadruple Axel. He was really focusing on strengthening his hamstrings and doing squats during the previous season. He was training his legs a lot. Before Beijing, I remember thinking, "Oh!" and asking, "Do you get it?" He replied, "But..." at that moment. He said, "I've been really focusing on strengthening my muscles, and the level for jumping with muscle power is coming along nicely, but now it's all about the 'tendons.'" I had actually been thinking of suggesting "tendon reflex" that season, and then he said "tendons" exactly as I had in mind. It was amazing. We were really thinking the same thing.

 

Hanyu: Also, globally, research in that area was progressing rapidly, and there were things that were being scientifically proven.

 

- It was the moment when Hanyu-san's internal mechanisms as an athlete and Kurihara's plan aligned.

 

Hanyu: No, it's like I've been brainwashed (laughs). But I myself am very greedy when it comes to “how to get better." When I think about how to get better, I realize that what I already know is not enough. So I asked Kurihara-san, "What should I do?" and "Oh, come to think of it, this is what I did during the match" or "I used to eat this during the match". Then, I actually tried eating those foods, researched them myself to gain more knowledge, and shared with Kuri-san things like "This is what I'm eating now" and "This is what I'm doing" and brushed up on them in various ways. That happened a lot.

 

Power ball with a message

 

- I was also impressed by the story of Kurihara-san's large grip on the “Powerball”!

 

Hanyu: A big one (laughs). Like, "Huge..." "Clearly, it's huge!"

 

Kurihara: It's easy to tell (laughs). But still, it was about "making sure we get energy in at this point," so it was about timing and anticipating when to increase the intake. Even if I brought a rice bowl, whether it was 160 grams, 180 grams, or 200 grams, it was all obvious in three sizes. So I increased the amount with power balls.

 

Hanyu: There were days when I felt like, "Today wasn't much..." It was probably during the day when I had udon or something.

 

Kurihara: Yes, exactly. With udon, you can't really get that much energy and carbohydrates, so I'd casually give him one or two power balls without saying anything, and of course, he'd notice right away (laughs).

 

Hanyu: But I understand the consideration behind it, so I’d think, "Okay, I need to eat this now." It's not always possible to eat everything all the time, and depending on my condition, there are times when I just can't eat. In those cases, I would have almonds or jelly to make up for it.

 

Kurihara: That's right. You make sure to properly take in other things.

 

Hanyu: But from the number of power balls, I could sense Kuri-san's plans, like "I want to put it in" and "Eat it." And I'd be like, "Ah, I'll eat it...". At times like that, it was already "nothing (more to be said)" (laughs). I had no other choice.

 

Kurihara: One of Yuzuru’s remarkable qualities is that he can perceive a story from the meals we present. Basically, he understands when it's time to push forward, like "This is the time to go for it!" or when it's okay to take it easy, like "This is a relaxed time."

 

Hanyu: Plus, it was about my condition and how hungry I was. "I can digest this now, so I’ll just have a little more!" That’s how I approached it.

 

 

 JP transcript:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

【全文公開】対談「羽生結弦×栗原秀文」あの頃か今の筋力か…４Ａ挑戦前の議論／中編
冬季オリンピック（五輪）男子2連覇のプロフィギュアスケーター羽生結弦さん（29）が、長く“専属”支援を受けてきた味の素（株）「ビクトリープロジェクト（VP）」の栗原秀文チームリーダー（48）と対談しました。

2022年北京五輪で前人未到だったクワッドアクセル（4回転半ジャンプ＝4A）に挑み、世界初の認定をつかむまでの舞台裏を振り返る特別企画の、未公開部分も含めた「全文」を3週に分けて、余すことなくお届けしています。

（中）編は18年平昌五輪に向けた試行錯誤と、さらに4年後の4A挑戦につながった議論について。（質問以外は敬称略）

 

年齢とともに調整したグラム単位の食事

―食事に関して。一般的には、体重を減らすため、体のキレを良くするために、ご飯を減らす人が多い。白米、炭水化物を抜いたり。一方で糖質の大事さ、ガソリンになるという考え方もありますし、強化していく中で、筋力をつける、体重が増える…その分、重くなったり。ジャンプへの反作用、無意識の拒否感、きっと通過してきたんじゃないかなと想像するのですが、いかがですか

羽生僕は、そもそも体重は軽い方なので。やっぱり最初は筋力的にも足りない部分はあったと思っていますし、でもまだ10代ということもあって、まだまだ、伸び盛りだったというか。がむしゃらにやっていて、どんどん強くなれる、うまくなれる、どんどん跳べる、ようになっていく時期だったので。あまり、そこに関して自分は「食べないようにしよう」ということはなかったですね。ただ、やっぱ自分が年齢を重なるにつれて、23、24歳ぐらいでしたかね、あたりから、ちょっと「重たいのが嫌かもしれない」みたいなことを言い始めて。その時はちょっとずつ制限をしようとしたりとか「ここは練習量そんなに増やせないから、これぐらいにしとこうか」とか「試合の時の、ご飯全体の量、グラム数をちょっと減らしてみようね」みたいなことはやっていましたね。どうしても試合中は、おなかの機能的にそんなに強くないので、どうしても次の日まで胃に残ってしまう、みたいな。おなかの中に残ってしまって重いし、っていうことが結構あったので、そこに関しては、ちょっとありましたね。ジャンプに対しては。

栗原あったね～。着地の時に、ものすごいG（重力加速度）がかかるからね。ジャンプの後は。

羽生いわゆる、トレイルランとか、マラソンとか、常時、揺さぶられ続けるみたいなダメージが、より大きくかかりやすい競技でもあったので。その点、やっぱり内臓へのケアみたいなことは結構していただいたかな、とは思います。

栗原なので、私自身のスキルとしても、本当におなかの中に、どれぐらい残っているのか。正直、何グラムぐらい入ってんだ、と。滑って着地して、違和感がないかどうか。試合の時も練習に行きますよね。ということは、その手前に食事を摂っているわけです。その食事がまだおなかの中にあって、消化の過程で練習をすることになるんです。帰ってきた時に「どうだった？」「大丈夫だった？」って聞いていたんですけど「ちょっと重いかな？」とか、そういう感じだったよね。

羽生まあ、でも試合前は「重い」とか僕は1回も言わなかったですけどね。全て「大丈夫です」「元気です」「調子いいっす」みたいな（笑い）。

栗原本当に、そのあたりのあんばいを確認していた感じでしたね。

羽生まあ、でも割と、体重に如実に出る時もありましたよね。どうしても夜が遅くて、僕らの試合がだいたい午後9時とか10時とかに終わって、そこから記者会見があって、帰ってきてご飯を食べるのが12時ぐらいになったりする時もあったりして。で、その次の日の練習がお昼からあると、やっぱり午前9時ぐらいには、もう食べなきゃいけないので。そういう時はやっぱり体重測定すると重かったりとか「ちょっと重いから、じゃあこういうふうにしよう」みたいなことは、割と計算していたかもしれないですね。

 

離れていても共有できたイメージ

―ソチまでは「健康」がテーマ。平昌までの戦略はどうだったんですか

栗原体重、体組成を管理して、それと同時に、その日のトレーニングの量と強度を1日のトレーニング・ロード（負荷）として数値化をして書いてもらって、その中でコンディションがどうだったか、っていうことも見える化していって、経時的に変化を見ていきながら、ご本人のパフォーマンスは僕らには分からないので、そこはご本人がちゃんとデータとすり合わせをして。そんなことを本当に始めるようになってから、よりパフォーマンスに対して、どう栄養が関わるか、という感覚になっていきました。

羽生そうですね。結局、そこでしたよね、僕の戦略的には。どこで何を食べさせたいか。どのくらいの体重管理のイメージで、どのくらいの量を滑っているのか、っていうのをイメージしながら食べさせていく、っていうのが僕に対するものでした。

栗原そうだね。だから、例えばさっきの話で「スケジュールがこうだから、試合2日前のここら辺から、もうちょっと多めに入れとくからね」「でも、ここは減らすよ」みたいな。そういうようなこともあったよね。

羽生飛行機で移動してきて、直後の食事とか。割と機内での食事があんまり得意ではなかったり、やっぱり時差もあってなかなか食事が入らない、みたいなこともあったので、割とおなかは空いているから、と言うと「じゃあ今のうちにいっぱい食べさせよう、多めに」とか「（カナダから開催地に）来てから、ここはおいしいやつで、羽生が好きなメニューでいこう、ドーン！」みたいな感じの時はありましたね。

―そうして平昌五輪に向かっていったんですね

羽生ロードを毎日しっかり書いて、時々忘れて（笑い）。やっぱり書いて出して、っていう作業は一番大変だったし。でも、僕自身もそれを見ながら「あ、こういう体重の時はいいんだな」「この時は別に体重関係なく調子が悪いんだな」とか分かったり。あの期間があったから、きっと筋肉に対する栄養価もちゃんとたまっていって、ここで爆発できて、じゃあここで落ちたんだね、っていう。いわゆる数値化して見えてきたから、そこはやっぱり大きかったと思います。今までは、夏場に「今シーズンはどういう方針で戦っていこうか」っていうミーティングはよくあったんですけど、その間、ずっと継続していたので、僕自身も勉強しながら、書きながら、みたいな感じは、栗さんからもいろいろフィードバックをいただきながら、っていう感じだったので。そこで自分の体重だったり、栄養だったり、食事のタイミングだったり、そういったことへの知識が深まっていった感じですね。

栗原彼は普段トロントにいて、離れたところで練習をなさっていたわけですけど、離れていても、そのデータの流れとか数字を見ると「今、こんな感じなんだろうな」っていうイメージがつきました。イメージがつくからこそ、試合に入っていった時に「きっと、今季こうなっていきたいんだろうな」っていうものが描けるので、作戦が組めるという部分はすごくありました。あと彼の場合は、毎日の時間と強度を書いてくれる欄に、いろいろ書いてくれるんですよ。「今日はこうだった、ああだった」って。もう、いろんなファクトを書いてくれるので「なるほど、なるほど」と。たぶん半分ぐらいはご本人の日記にもなっていたとは思うんですけど、そうだよね？　だから、それを1週間分まとめていただいた時に「なるほど！」って気付きはすごくありました。その中でも、平昌に向けて自分の中で「なるほど！」ってなおさら思ったことがあるんです。自分は、試合のたびに、お会いするたびに、結弦君の体のフォルムをパッと見て「あ、今こんな感じだね」って話していて。よくそういうやりとりをしていた中で「だいぶハムきたね」「いい感じだね」とか言ったりしていたんですけど、その中で、とある時に、すごく大殿筋、お尻の筋肉が発達したなと思った時があって。「これは相当（トレーニング）やったね」って。

羽生世界選手権かな、確かヘルシンキの前じゃないかな。何年でしたっけ？

―17年です

羽生そう、平昌の1年前でしたね。

栗原その時、ものすごい滑り込みをしていたと聞いていて。その時に「うお～！」っていうくらい足腰の発達がすごくて「確かにデータにあった。これだ、あれだ」みたいなことがあって。1日のロードが高い数値で続いてる時があって「実は、こういうことやったんですよ」とか教えてくれて「そうだったのか～！」って（笑い）。確かに、あれは本当に「わお！」って思わされました。トレーニングを変化させて、体も実際、その時は除脂肪量が一気に上がって、筋肉が増えて、フォルムも変わって、実際、パフォーマンスにも出ていて。すごく興味深かったですね。

 

羽生やっぱり、あの時の取り組みが栄養管理的にもベースになっていますよね。あの頃をベースに考えて（さらに4年後、北京五輪で）4回転半を目指すに当たってもそうだったし、はたして、あの時にベストパフォーマンスを出せていた体重の方がいいのか、それとも筋力をつけた後の感覚を持っての体重の方がいいのか、みたいなことは議論しつつ、結局、やっぱり「あの時の方がいいわ」ってなったんですよね。いろいろありましたね。

栗原体をつくっていくプロセスの中で、まさに4回転半目指そうってなった。それこそハムストリングスとかスクワットとか結構やったんですよね。その前のシーズンかな。結構、脚を鍛えて。北京前に「お！」って言って。「分かる？」って返してくれたけど、その時に結弦君が「だけど…」ってなったんだよね。「筋はすごく鍛えているんだけど、とりあえず筋力で跳ぶレベルは、だいぶいい感じできてるんだけど、あとは『腱（けん）』なんだよ」って。僕も、そのシーズンはまさに「腱反射じゃないの？」って提案しようと思っていた時で、まさにドンピシャで「腱」って言ってくれたの。すごかった。本当に、同じことを考えていたんだなって。

羽生世界のトレンド的にも、そういう研究がどんどん進んでいて、科学的にも証明されつつあるものがあったので。

ィギュアスケート

―羽生さんの、アスリートとしての体内メカニズムと栗原さんのプランが調和した瞬間ですね

羽生いや、洗脳されているんです（笑い）。でも、やっぱり僕自身が「どうやったらうまくなるか」ということに関して、かなり貪欲なんですよ。どうやってうまくなるかを考えた時、どうしても、自分が知っているものだけじゃ足りないんですよ。だから栗原さんに「どうしたらいいの？」ってすごく聞いたし「そういえば試合の時はこうだったな」とか「試合の時はこういうものを食べていたな」とか。で、実際そういうの食べてみたし、自分自身でも調べて知識をつけて「今こんなもの食べています」「こんなことやっています」みたいなことを、また栗さんに共有して、いろいろブラッシュアップしていって、みたいなことがすごく多かったですね。

男子フリー　演技をする羽

 

メッセージが込められたパワーボール

―栗原さんが「パワーボール」を大きく握った話も印象的でした

羽生大きめに（笑い）。「でかい…」「明らかにでけえな！」みたいな。

栗原すぐバレるんです（笑い）。でも、やっぱり「ここはエネルギー入れとかなきゃ」っていう、だから先を見越して、入れどころっていうタイミングだったので。本当にご飯の器を持っていっても、160グラムのご飯なのか180グラムなのか200グラムなのか、全部3段階、分かられちゃうんです。だからパワーボールで増やしました。

羽生「少なかったな…今日」みたいな日、ありましたよね。その時、たぶん昼間に、うどんか何か食べた時でした。

栗原そうそう。で、うどんだと、そんなにエネルギー、炭水化物を確保し切れないので、ちょっとパワーボールを1個とか2個、しれっと、何も言わずに渡したら、見事にバレて（笑い）。

羽生でも、そういう気遣いも分かるから「今、食べなきゃいけないんだね」みたいな感じには僕もなったんじゃないかな。やっぱり全部をずっと食べ切れるわけでもないし、どうしても体調によっては「今、食べれらない」みたいな時もあるし、その分、アーモンドとか食べたり、ゼリーとか摂ったり。

栗原そうそう、他のものをちゃんと摂取してくれるんですよ。

羽生とはいえ「入れたい」「食べて」みたいな栗さんたちの計画を、そのパワーボールの数から感じて。「あ、食べます…」と。そういう時は、もう「無」でした（笑い）。しょうがないから。

栗原結弦君のすごい特長は、お出しした食事からストーリーを感じ取れることなんですと。要するに「ここ、いけ！　って時なのね」とか「ここは緩くていいのね」みたいなことで。

羽生それプラス、自分の体調とか、おなかの空き具合とかでしたね。「今、消化できているから、ちょっと入れときます！」みたいな感じでやっていましたね。

（つづく）

生

 

[yuzurujenn]

*machine translation*

 

2025.01.08

 

Source: https://www.nikkansports.com/premium/sports/figure/news/202412220000629.html

 

 

[Full text released] Final episode of the "Yuzuru Hanyu x Hidefumi Kurihara" dialogue - Behind the scenes of the Beijing Olympic exhibition / Part 2

 

Yuzuru Hanyu (29), a professional figure skater who has won the men’s gold medal at the Winter Olympics for two consecutive years, spoke with Hidefumi Kurihara (48), team leader of Ajinomoto Co., Inc.’s Victory Project (VP), who has long been his exclusive supporter. A special project looking back at the behind-the-scenes of his attempt at the unprecedented quad axel (four and a half rotation jump = 4A) at the 2022 Beijing Olympics and his journey to becoming the first in the world to receive certification. The full story, including unreleased parts, will be delivered in full over three weeks. The final episode (Part 2) focuses on the "trigger" for their relationship that led to the Beijing Olympic exhibition. The connection between the two was united by those four characters. (Honorifics omitted except for questions.)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

What I felt while supporting Yuzuru Hanyu

 

- Listening to your stories, I felt that you were on the same wavelength at a high level, so much so that you may have been "brainwashed." What kind of chemical reaction ultimately occurred? Please also tell us about your mental growth.

 

Hanyu: At first, I think I probably thought, "What a hassle" (laughs). But I learned so much, including about the approach to nutrition for figure skating. On the other hand, combining my own training load and body composition with my activity, I think it became a great research project in terms of my condition and performance. As an athlete, I was already an Olympic champion, even though I was only 19. The body composition data and activity levels of the 19-year-old gold medalist Hanyu Yuzuru, and how many calories he was consuming. Did the formula they calculated match the intensity that he actually felt? I think they probably researched whether the food I was eating matched the numbers that were calculated, based on me. At least in figure skating.

 

Kurihara: After all, each individual, each person, is different. The environment they grew up in, their family, the amount they eat, all these factors are different, which means the amount of work their stomach and intestines are doing is different as well. So, even if it’s the same sport, there are naturally differences. And when it comes to different sports, there are also physical differences, so it’s completely different.

 

Hanyu: If we used the same amount that a swimmer eats, it would be a big problem, right?

 

Kurihara: That’s right. It’s because I was able to observe him one-on-one that I gained certain skills. My sensitivity to things like, "How will Yuzuru react if I put in this number of grams here?" has really increased. In that sense, it's the same with swimming athletes. Even though we are supporting the athletes, I feel that we are also being supported and learning from them. I truly felt that while supporting Yuzuru-kun. The rest, as I mentioned earlier. In a field close to specific science, I complete everything properly, get him into a healthy state, and send him out onto the ice. 'Go ahead,' 'Have a good one.' That's all I can do. That's as far as my job goes. As long as I send him out in good health, with both body and mind healthy, then all that's left is for him to freely compete on the ice. Just seeing that was a joy for me… I was really happy. Of course, there are wins and losses, but because he's healthy, even if he fights and loses, he can come back, and he's not going to die, or something like that. I could pat him on the back and say, 'Next time!' And repeat it. That’s because we were always aiming for health. I really felt that while supporting Yuzuru-kun. And that’s still our foundation to this day.

 

Hanyu: I think in competitive swimming, you have to support the entire Japanese team, right? There are quite a lot of athletes, so while you need to address each one individually, there are many things to consider. However, when I was competing in figure skating, I was basically the only one there. I think the mindset, the tension while waiting, and so on must have been different from swimming. 'I've sent him off,' 'I did what I had to do,' 'Now I just have to wait!' That’s how it felt (laughs).

 

 

The person who gave me the opportunity

 

- To put it simply, what kind of person is Kurihara-san to you, Hanyu?

 

Hanyu: What should I say to that? (laughs) Well, I was someone who originally had little interest in food, and even cooking... I didn’t even know how many calories were in a bowl of rice when I started. Nowadays, I think sports nutrition has become quite common among athletes, and there’s a lot of education on it, like the Victory Project. I believe it's spreading more and more. But when I first met Kurihara-san, there was none of that. Even when I heard about the connection between nutrition and sports, I didn’t know where to start. It was from there that my understanding of how nutrition could form the foundation of conditioning deepened. And because that foundation was built, I think I became able to make my own adjustments. Those adjustments then helped improve my performance. So, I guess, he's someone who helped me build my foundation and gave me the opportunity to do so.

 

Kurihara: I think that’s probably the right way to put it. It really was a "trigger," wasn’t it?

 

Hanyu: It wasn't just something that was "given" to me. It was more like, "Here’s something you could try," "There's also this," "Well, let’s try eating this before the next competition." So, by the time a competition comes around, I was in a state where I didn't have to think too much about anything. I can completely trust the professionals and experts to handle everything for me, or rather, I really need to focus on my performance, so it’s best to leave everything related to nutrition and conditioning to the professionals. During competitions, I leave it all to Kuri-san and others, but when it comes to daily life and training, I started thinking a lot more about what kind of meals I should be eating, what kind of weight I should be aiming for, and what kind of physical conditioning I need. I really started to think more deeply about these things because I was given that "trigger."

 

Kurihara: Exactly. Before you aimed for the 4A, you had a trainer, Mitomi, right? We had a remote meeting with him at first (in June 2021), right? That was exactly it. I still think that the discussions we had during that meeting came about because of the process leading up to that point. What we discussed during that meeting was mainly about how to perform at your best. We talked about things like 'tendon reflexes', and how the free program went from being 4.5 minutes to 4 minutes, which made it even more intense, and the quality had to be higher. The physical demands were becoming tougher, and we talked about how "You're good at intense glycolytic training and energy metabolism." But gradual aerobic training is also necessary, and the more you push yourself, the more you tend to focus on that. When the three of us, including Mitomi, were talking about how "this is important," I felt that the reason we were able to have such a deep discussion was because we continued to provide that "trigger."

 

Hanyu: So, by that time, it wasn’t really about "health" or anything like that. The foundation was already in place, and it felt like everything was standing firmly on top of that. It felt like the culmination of everything.

 

Kurihara: Around that time, our company developed new amino acids that could help "make tendons healthier," "make it easier to work harder," and "show off your full potential." I was developing and figuring out how to use those nutrients in various ways. With the hypothesis that "this will definitely help Yuzuru in his 4A challenge," we talked about various things such as training plans, and he really took the bait. (laughs)

 

Hanyu: Like a fish? (laughs)

 

Kurihara: It was my job, and my responsibility, to get them interested and take a step in that direction. In the process, I made various suggestions, such as interval training.

 

Hanyu: Low-carb (carb restriction) and blood flow restriction training, that sort of thing.

 

Kurihara: As expected, since the tendons and joints are under tremendous strain, I also developed meals that included collagen, protein, and low-fat options that could be consumed through dishes like hot pots (nabe) and regular meals. While giving the essence of training, I also focused on nutrition, making sure the meals were designed for that purpose. I wanted everything to be in perfect order, so I put together all sorts of things. It feels nostalgic now. We went through a lot. (laughs) We’d talk about how the heart rate would change a few seconds after starting to skate, and how things would go, and you’d say things like, "This is how I feel." We’d talk about how things moved along a certain curve. It was really fun.

 

-- This goes far beyond just how to eat.

 

Hanyu: In the end, it all comes back to the foundation of food. It’s the same with heart rate training. Whether we focus on explosive power or endurance, it all comes down to what kind of food you should eat, what you should consume, and in what balance. In the end, it’s all about the foundation. That’s what we were thinking about every day.

 

That's why I wanted to give everything in the exhibition.

 

-- Thank you so much for this valuable conversation!

 

Kurihara: Lastly... this is something very personal to me, but there’s something I’ve really wanted to ask. Is that okay? At the Beijing Olympics, the 4A was recognized. You attempted it, it was acknowledged, but the result was disappointing. While that can’t be helped, I want to talk about what happened after that. You reached out about the exhibition, saying, "Kuri-san, I’m going to replenish my glycogen again. I’m doing it!" That was about 3 or 4 days after the competition, right? You contacted me, and from there, you focused on replenishing your energy and glycogen. I’m curious about how you were feeling during that process at the time.

 

Hanyu: Honestly, I was really frustrated with my performance. Of course, I wasn’t planning on attempting the 4A, but for the exhibition, some people might see it as a kind of festival, but for me, it’s where an athlete's true qualities are revealed. I believed that how much I could show there would determine the overall impression of me. Of course, my spirits were down, and I thought, "Why did I sprain my right ankle again at a time like this?" It kept happening, but I kept telling myself, "I can’t let my guard down here. I’ll make sure to give my absolute best until the very last performance." That’s what I kept thinking.

 

Kurihara: I was watching it on the TV in the dining hall, and I was crying uncontrollably. It was the best performance, one of those moments in my life that I’ll never forget. I just wanted to make sure I conveyed that to you.

 

Hanyu: Even now, I’m still doing it with that same feeling. "How can I deliver the best performance until the very end?" I’ve been doing it along that same line ever since, with that same mindset from back then. You've seen the process, the injuries, the times when I couldn’t do something (because I was hurting behind the scenes), and how I struggled with the Axel. Seeing all of that, it means even more. Thank you so much!

 

Kurihara: Thank you! I’m really happy.

 

Hanyu: My right ankle was hurting so much. It was really painful, and I didn’t know what to do… But more than that, I wanted to show something great. I’ve been supported by so many people, including you, Kuri-san, and I always felt that as an athlete, I needed to properly receive that support and show it on every stage. In a way, I should have given everything in the free program, but I couldn’t, and that was frustrating, so I ended up getting upset. That’s why I wanted to give everything in the exhibition. I think there is no one else who receives this much support. After all, I’m the only one in figure skating receiving this kind of support. Even just in terms of meal support, you’ve been giving so much every time, and I wanted to repay that by producing results. That was both the pressure and a driving force for me. Thank you so much!

 

 

JP transcript

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【全文公開】対談「羽生結弦×栗原秀文」最終回～北京五輪エキシビション舞台裏／下編
冬季オリンピック（五輪）男子2連覇のプロフィギュアスケーター羽生結弦さん（29）が、長く“専属”支援を受けてきた味の素（株）「ビクトリープロジェクト（VP）」の栗原秀文チームリーダー（48）と対談しました。

2022年北京五輪で前人未到だったクワッドアクセル（4回転半ジャンプ＝4A）に挑み、世界初の認定をつかむまでの舞台裏を振り返る特別企画。未公開部分も含めた「全文」を3週に分け、余すことなくお届けしています。

最終回の（下）編は「きっかけ」。あの北京五輪エキシビションにつながった2人の関係性は、その4文字で互いに一致しました。（質問以外は敬称略）

 

羽生結弦をサポートして感じたこと

―本当に「洗脳」された、かもしれないくらい、高度なところで波長が合っていたんだなと、おふたりの話を聞いていて感じました。最終的に、どのような化学反応が起きたのか。精神面の成長も含めて、お願いします

羽生それこそ最初「面倒くせえな」って、たぶん思われたと思うんですけど（笑い）。フィギュアスケートという競技への食事の考え方も含めて、もうめちゃくちゃ勉強させてもらいましたし、反対に、羽生のロード（負荷）や体組成計とその活動を掛け合わせて、調子とコンディションみたいな面では、かなり研究にもなったんだろうなと思います。1人のアスリートとして、やっぱりオリンピックを既に取っている人間だったので、19歳とはいえ。19歳の羽生結弦という金メダリストの体組成の数値と活動量と、どのくらいのカロリーを消費しているのか、を。計算した数式と、実際に体感として出てきた強度とが、合っているのか。食べているものと、計算で出したものが合っているのかどうか、みたいなものを、僕をベースに研究したんだろうな、とは、やっぱり思いますね。フィギュアに関しては。

 

栗原やっぱり1個体1個体、おひとりおひとり、違うんですよね。育ってきた環境も家庭も違うし、食べてきた量も違うし、イコール、胃と腸を動かしてる量も違うし。だから、同じ競技だとしても違いは当然あるわけだし、ましてや違う競技となれば体格差もあるので、全然、違います。

羽生水泳選手の量で作ったら大変なことになりますよね。

栗原やっぱり1対1で見させてもらえたからこそ得られたスキルが、あるんです。「ここで何グラム入れたら、結弦君は何て言うんだろう」みたいな感度は本当に高まった。そういう意味では、やっぱり水泳選手もそうですけど、選手を我々はサポートさせていただいているとはいえ、逆にサポートされて、勉強させていただいている。その感覚を、本当に結弦君のサポートをする中で感じていましたね。あとは、先ほどのお話の通り。具体的なサイエンスに近い領域で、ちゃんとコンプリートして、健康な状態にして、氷の上に送り出してあげる。「行ってきます」「行ってらっしゃい」。そこまで、やらせていただく。僕の仕事はそこまで。ちゃんと健康で送り出せば、心も体も健康であれば、もう氷の上で自由に戦いを繰り広げてもらうだけです。それを見ることが僕にとって、本当に幸せだったというか…。本当にうれしかった。当然、勝ったり負けたりいろいろありますけど、健康だからこそ、戦って敗れたとしても戻ってこられるし、死ぬわけじゃねえし、みたいな。尻たたいて「次だね！」と繰り返せたのは、常に健康を目指していたから、って思いますね。結弦君のサポートをしていて、すごく感じてたこと。そこが今でも僕らのベースになっています。

 

羽生やっぱり競泳だったら、日本の全メンバー（のサポートを）やらなきゃいけないみたいなところもあると思いますし。個別対応しつつも、結構な数の選手がいらっしゃるので。いろいろ考えることたくさんあったと思うんですけど、僕の時って（フィギュア界では）試合に行く時って、基本的に僕だけだったので。考え方とか、待っている時間の緊張感とか、また競泳とかとは違ったものだったろうな、って思いますね。「送り出した～」「やることやった～」「あとは待つしかねえ！」。そんな感じだったんだと思います（笑い）。

「きっかけになってくださった方」

―ずばり、羽生さんにとって栗原さんは、どのような存在ですか

羽生これは何て答えればいいのかな（笑い）。やっぱ、もともと食事に対する興味が薄い人間だったし、料理…そもそも料理も、どれだけカロリーがあって、まず、お茶わん1杯がどれくらいのカロリーかっていうことすらも知らない状況から始まって。今ではスポーツ栄養学みたいなものがアスリートたちにも割と浸透していると思うんですけど、そういう教育は、それこそビクトリープロジェクトもやっていますし。どんどんどんどん浸透していると思います。でも、僕が栗さんと知り合った時は、そういうものが全くない状況で。栄養とスポーツの掛け算と言われても、どうしていったらいいのか考えるところから。そこをきっかけに、コンディショニングの土台となる、食事面に関しての考え方が深まったことによって、土台ができたことによって、自分でも工夫ができるようになったと思います。その工夫が、また自分のパフォーマンスを上げてくれるものにもなる。自分の土台を造ってくださった、きっかけになってくださった方、ですかね。

栗原たぶん、それが正しい言い方な気がします。まさに「きっかけ」じゃないですかね。

羽生「与えられる」だけではなかったんですよね。「こういうものがあるよ」「こういうものもあるんだよ」「じゃあ、今回の試合ではこういうものを食べよう」って。なので、試合になれば、もう僕はそこまで何も考える必要がない状態というか。任せっきりというか、試合では、もう本当に僕はパフォーマンスすることに集中しなければいけないと思っているので、そっちの方は、もう頼れる方々に、プロにお願いするのが一番だから、試合の時はもう完全に栗さんたちにお願いしちゃうけど、自分で生活する時は、練習をしている時は、やっぱり「きっかけ」を与えてもらえたから、僕は普段どういう食事をしなきゃいけないのか、どういう体重にしていかなきゃいけないのか、どんな体づくりをしなきゃいけないのか、って、すごく考えるようになりましたね。

栗原まさに。4Aを目指す前に、三富トレーナーっていたじゃない？　最初、彼と一緒に（21年6月に）リモートでミーティングしたじゃない？　あれが、まさに。そこまでのプロセスがあったから、あのミーティングでの議論になったんだな、と今でも僕は思っているの。あの時に話したことは、どちらかと言えば、パフォーマンスをどう発揮するか。それこそ「腱（けん）反射」の話もしたし、それこそフリーも4分半から4分になって、よりハードになった、クオリティーも、より高めなきゃいけない、きつくなる、という状態の中で「解糖系の激しいトレーニング、エネルギー代謝は得意です」と。だけれども、有酸素系のジワ～っていう練習も必要で、突き詰める人ほど、そっちにそっちに偏ってしまう。「ここ大事だぞ」という話を三富君と3人でした時、深い議論ができたのは、その「きっかけ」をずっと与え続けたからなんだろうな、って気がしました。

羽生だからもう、あの時の段階では「健康がどうのこうの」ではなくて、しっかり土台ができ上がっていたから、その上にちゃんと成り立っているんだ、という感じでしたね。集大成でした。

栗原その頃、当社で新たなアミノ酸も開発されて「腱も健康にしていく」「よりハードなところで頑張れる」「自分の力を出せる」みたいなサポートもできるようになって。そんな栄養素を、ちょうど我々も開発したり、いろいろ生かし方を考えたりして。「きっと結弦君の4A挑戦のプラスになるだろう」という仮説を持ちながら、トレーニングの設計等いろいろ話をさせてもらったんですけど、まあ、食いついてくれましたね（笑い）。

羽生魚か（笑い）。

栗原それくらい食いついてくれて、興味を持ってもらって、その方向に1歩を踏み出してもらうことが僕らの仕事で、すべきことでした。その中でインターバルトレーニングとか、いろいろ提案させてもらいましたね。

羽生ローカーボ（糖質制限）とか加圧とか。

栗原やっぱり、腱や関節にものすごく負担がかかるので、鍋とか、通常の食事に関しても、コラーゲンとかタンパク質とか、ローファット（低脂質）で摂取できるようなメニューも開発していきました。トレーニングのエッセンスは与えつつ、栄養面は、そのための献立にしていくという。もう現場は、一糸も乱れたくないという感覚で、いろいろなものを組み立てていきましたね。懐かしいなあ。いろいろあったなあ（笑い）。心拍が、滑り始めて何秒後にこれぐらいになるから何だかんだ、とかね。「僕の感覚はこうです」とか毎回、そういう話をしたよね。こういう曲線で動いてんじゃねえか、みたいな。ものすごく楽しかった。

―食事をどう摂るか、の域を大きく上回る話です

羽生結局、その土台が食事なんですよ。心拍数トレーニングに関してもそうですけど、瞬発にするのか、持久系にするのか、いずれにしても、どれだけの食事をして何を摂らせるべきなのか、どういうバランスで摂らせるべきなのか、と。結局、土台。そこを考える日々でしたね。

 

「だから全てをエキシビで出したかった」

―このたびは貴重な対談、ありがとうございました！

栗原最後に…。これ、すごく僕の中で、僕の個人的な話で、すごく聞きたかったことなんですけど、いいですか？　北京五輪で4Aが認められました。チャレンジして、認められて、でも悔しい結果でした。それはそれで仕方ないとして、その後のエキシビションに向かって「栗さん、俺、もう1回（グリコーゲンを体内に）ためるから。やるよ！」って連絡をくれたじゃないですか。あれは試合の3日後、4日後ぐらいだったかなあ。そう連絡をくださって、そこからまた、エネルギー、グリコーゲンを入れていった。あのプロセスって、当時どんな気持ちだったのかなあ、と。

羽生正直、自分の演技がめちゃくちゃ悔しかったから。もちろん4Aやるつもりはないんですけど、エキシビションって、人によっては祭りみたいなところもあるっちゃ、あるんですけど、僕にとっては、いわゆる選手の資質が見えるところ。そこでどれだけ見せられるかで、全ての印象が決まる、って思っていたんで。もちろん気持ちは落ちるは落ちるし、何でこういう時にまた（右足首を）捻挫しちゃうんだ、って思ったし…。繰り返されてしまったんですけど「ここで気を抜いてられない。最後の最後の演技まで最高にしよう」って、ずっと思っていましたね。

栗原僕は食堂のテレビで見ていたんですけど、もう号泣です。最高の演技、僕の人生の中でも絶対に忘れられない瞬間だったから、それだけ絶対に伝えたかったんだよ、俺。

羽生今も、ずーっと、その気持ちでやっている感じです。「どれだけ最高のものを、最後の最後まで届けられるか」。その延長線上で、ずっとやっている感じですね。あの時の気持ちのまま。過程を、けがとか、ここで（裏では痛めていて）できなくなりました、とか、めっちゃアクセルで苦しんだ自分を見てくれていたし、過程があるから、余計にね。ありがとうございました！

栗原ありがとうございました。うれしいです、とっても。

羽生右足首、ガンガンに痛くて。本当に痛くて、どうしよう…でも、それ以上に、いいものを見せたい。栗さんはじめ、本当にいろいろな方々にサポートされて、アスリートは競技会に出て行くので。そのサポートを、その舞台舞台でちゃんと消化したいと常に思っていて、それが本当は、フリー本番の時に出し切れば良かったんだけど、出し切れなくて、悔しくて、ワーッてなっちゃったんで。だから全てをエキシビで出したかった。こんだけサポートしてもらえる人間、いないって思っているので。それこそフィギュアのサポートは僕1人だけですよね。食事のサポートひとつ取っても、毎回毎回、つぎ込んでくださった恩返しをしたい、結果を出したい。それがプレッシャーでもあり、原動力でもありました。本当にありがとうございました！