yuzurujenn Posted September 19 Share Posted September 19 *Official English translation from the website* Source: https://www.1101.com/n/s/yuzuru_hanyu2024_en/index.html No matter when the world might end: Yuzuru Hanyu x Shigesato Itoi It all started when Yuzuru Hanyu said he was a MOTHER 2 fan on a TV program. This brought about the kind of discussion you only dream about. Not in a cliche way, but really and truly an amazing thing. Last December, Yuzuru Hanyu and Shigesato Itoi met in a studio in Sendai and talked about all kinds of things for two hours. We’re pleased to be able to bring you that discussion. Photography: Toru Yaguchi Clothing: tk.TAKEO KIKUCHI Part 1: A way to be more like those I look up to Spoiler Hanyu Nice to meet you. Itoi Nice to meet you, too. I think this is probably going to be the most laid back interview you’ve been in. Hanyu Oh, really? Then I’ll take it easy. Itoi Please. (Laughs) Hanyu I am nervous, though. (Laughs) Itoi Some of my staff saw you appear on an NHK show with Gen Hoshino and saw you talking about how you like MOTHER 2. Hanyu Ah, right. Itoi They were really excited. They said “Hanyu’s calling you Shigesato-san.” Hanyu (Laughs) I was watching pro baseball, so when I hear “Itoi-san” it makes me think of former Hanshin Tigers player Yoshio Itoi. “Shigesato-san” makes me more sure that I’m talking about you, but I’ll go with “Itoi-san” today. (Laughs) Itoi (Laughs) Hanyu I’ve been reading your work and feeling really grateful that you’re kind enough to think of me. It was really memorable when you sent a tweet, I think back in 2019, that said I “must be training right about now.” Itoi Of course, I never even thought of you being aware of that post. (Laughs) Hanyu It made me so happy. I also read your interview with Johnny Weir. (“Johnny Comes to Our Office.”) I’ve always idolized Johnny and felt like we shared the same sense of aestheticism, beauty, and style, so when I was reading his conversation with you, I really connected with a lot of it. Itoi I’m not very well-versed in figure-skating, so I’m grateful to be seen as someone who talks about vague things even greater than the sport itself. From my perspective, you and Johnny both are people who I can tell have something they’re trying to do. Hanyu Something we’re trying to do. (Laughs) Itoi By that I mean, whether you’re watching sumo wrestling or pole vaulting, it doesn’t require any specialized knowledge of the sport or its rules in order to see what that athlete is trying to do. I feel like that’s the case with you and Johnny. And I first learned about you through Johnny. Hanyu Oh, really? Itoi Johnny invited me to an ice show at a skating rink in the Hokuriku region, and you were in it. Johnny pointed you out and let me know how amazing you are. Hanyu Was that in Niigata or Fukui? Itoi I think it was in Fukui. Hanyu I think I was around 15 years old then. Itoi Ah, that’s how young you were? Johnny did mention he’d helped with your costume. Hanyu Yeah, he designed it. Itoi That’s right. How did you guys make a connection like that? You can’t normally meet that easily, right? Hanyu I’m very lucky that Japan is famous for its ice shows, since that allowed me to be surrounded by top skaters from around the world. So when I won the Junior Skating competition and was invited to perform in that show, I was able to talk to athletes from all over the world. I’m incredibly blessed to have had the opportunity to make connections like that. So I’ve been skating with a lot of athletes I idolize, like Johnny Weir and Evengi Plushenko, ever since I was young. And not even just skating—having time once in a while to ask them for advice and for their perspective on things. Itoi I’m sure it went beyond even just having that opportunity, and had to do with sharing common ideas with them. Hanyu I can see that. Itoi What about your different languages? Hanyu Figure skating has a lot of universal terms, so while people say them in different accents and it can be hard to understand from that perspective, it felt easy to talk to them even though I was young. Itoi I see. So if everyone’s using the same terminology, a 15-year-old could still converse with a top-performing adult athlete about those things. Hanyu That’s right. I also didn’t have much fear when it came to interactions like that, and was just focused on getting better. I was really fixated on things that I liked or wanted and knew that the opportunity to interact with top athletes was rare, so I didn’t want to waste it or regret anything afterwards. So I asked them a lot of questions and stuff. Itoi So you dove in head first. Hanyu Yeah. I started by shyly asking for their autographs, though. Itoi That’s where you started? (Laughs) Hanyu Yeah, all I knew at first was that I wanted their autographs. (Laughs) I asked them to sign my skates. Itoi So you approached them first as a fan. Hanyu Of course. I’ve been skating since I was four. It wasn’t necessarily that I loved skating, but what happened was that my older sister who was four years older than me started skating and I wanted to go with her. That’s why I started skating. I’ve always really looked up to her as a big sister. Itoi I see. Hanyu I’ve always had a role model around like that, wanting to do things with them, wanting to be like them—and later, it continued when Johnny and Plushenko filled those shoes for me. I had a lot of people I looked up to. Figure skating is a way for me to be more like people I look up to. Itoi Wow. Hanyu I think figure skating, to me, has always been about admiring someone, working hard to reach them, and then trying to surpass them. Itoi So by aiming for and surpassing your idols, you naturally ended up in a high place. Hanyu Yeah. I did start by idolizing an Olympic gold medalist. (Laughs) I think that made it inevitable that I ended up winning two gold medals in a row at the Olympics. Part 2: Thinking about it before I get there Spoiler Itoi It’s not every day a figure skating fan asks for autographs from some of the top international athletes and then goes on to win two consecutive gold medals. Hanyu I suppose not. Itoi Do you remember at what point you began to realize things were changing and that you could possibly compete in the Olympics? Hanyu When I won the Japan Championship, I felt like I was seeing the results of all my hard work, and it gave me confidence. Then I worked even harder and won again, so that cycle was one of the things that made me feel like I could get there. But mostly, it just felt like I could do whatever I set out to do, without question. Itoi Wow, you’re like a manga character. (Laughs) Hanyu My ability to manifest something, or my attachment to it—whatever it is—seems twice as strong as other people. It’s like I have a superpower when I think about wanting to be like someone. Maybe I have powerful mirror neurons or something. Itoi Interesting! Hanyu And as I imitate them, I gradually master it as my own technique and become better at it. I think it’s just a perpetual spiral. Itoi So ever since you were little, when you wanted to do something, you were able to do it and get better at it. Hanyu Yeah. I was closer to my older sister than anyone, and when I wanted to learn how to pull off all the jumps that she knew how to do, suddenly I’d surpassed her skills. Then I wanted to be like the top athlete among the men’s singles competition, and was able to do the moves that they were able to. In fact, by 17 years old I was able to complete the same quadruple jumps as the generation I admired. After that, I wanted to get even better, and that prevailing thought had me aiming as high as the quadruple axel. (Laughs) Itoi Normally, you’d think a boy from Sendai would be light years away from top athletes from all over the world, but when you saw those athletes and wanted to be like them, that distance really closed in. Hanyu Or maybe I thought there was no one but me. Itoi Ah, yeah. Hanyu That makes me feel a lot like the main character Ness from your RPG game MOTHER 2. He’s just a normal boy, and he’s put into a scenario that has him progressing along a certain path. In a way, I’ve got my own route I’m going along, and I don’t question it. Itoi That’s true, you’ve got things you want to do, and things you need to overcome as you go through your story. Then you train to see if you can pull something off. Hanyu When I was young, it was like I didn’t know the concepts of losing, or being unable to do something. Itoi Isn’t that the case now? (Laughs) Hanyu Well, nowadays, I know enough about society and I have enough knowledge that I can’t quite go back to who I was as a child. It’s like having useless meaning attached to everything you say or do. For example, if we say “It’s raining,” the only actual meaning there is that there are raindrops falling from the sky, the humidity is high, and it’s a little darker outside. But adults assign more to it, like “It’s depressing” or “My body feels heavy,” or “I can’t land my jumps today.” You might call that intellect, but you don’t actually need any of that. It only gets in your way. So even if I’ve got a new goal I set, I stumble over things like the rain, my body feeling heavy, and being unable to land a jump. I’m aware of that going in, though, so unlike when I was a child, I’m always making sure to remove unnecessary meanings from things. Itoi So in other words, when you were a young boy, you didn’t have a choice on the matter and simply did all you could. Hanyu That’s right. I was solely focused on one thing with all my heart. But now that I’ve grown up and all this baggage follows me around, when I want to aim for something, I end up having all kinds of different reasons for doing so, and things get fuzzy. It’s like there are all these different lenses being placed between me and something in my vision, so it’s not in focus anymore. Itoi I get it. Hanyu So I do everything I can to remove those lenses and push my way straight through. I think I’ve been focused on doing that ever since I was young. Itoi That’s exactly what I wanted to talk to you about today. Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi But that would mean that you’re thinking about a greater number of things at all times. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi And the more you have to think about, the more weight there is when you have to decide between them all. But when you’re in the middle of a jump, thoughts don’t matter. Hanyu That’s right. Itoi So I think it’s incredible that athletes, not just you, are constantly thinking about something, but then shake it all off in order to do something. And to do it so often during a competition. Hanyu It’s incredibly difficult. But on the other hand, there are many athletes out there who are still pure, with the same heart they had as a child, and have nothing else on their minds when they’re concentrating on what they’re doing. Itoi Oh, are there? Hanyu Yes. But for me, before I arrived somewhere, I’d think about it really hard. I always had a lot of thoughts I needed to line up in my brain before a competition. Itoi Things like worries and fears. Hanyu Yeah. Something that really stuck with me immensely was the March 11 disaster. Itoi Yeah. Part 3: Delivering voices from disaster-stricken areas Spoiler Hanyu After the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami in 2011, I went from being just another athlete to being labeled as someone from the disaster zone, so I had a lot more attention on me. That was around the time I was able to hone my skills, and had just gotten a hang of the quadruple jump, so I’d finally reached a place where I had the confidence to compete on the international stage. That’s why it was such hard timing for me to be not just a figure skater, but a representative of the disaster zone, which was an incredibly heavy burden to bear. In some ways I wanted to rebel, because I had people cheering me on for reasons beyond my performance and expression. Itoi I see. Hanyu As far as I was concerned, I’d just been doing my very best during training, and had finally gotten good enough at skating that I was starting to see the results. But I hated how I was changed into this person from the disaster zone, and how that was the new reason assigned to my hard work and success. Itoi How old were you at the time? Hanyu 16 or 17, so it was a pretty sensitive age for me. Itoi I’m sure. And that’s like you mentioned about meaning being attached to something—in this case the competitions. Hanyu Right. Of course, it was a very important thing, and I had that motivation to do my best. But what an incredible amount of weight for one person to bear. It’s too hard to be under that kind of pressure and actually clear your mind when you’re performing. Itoi I can see that. Hanyu So I had a lot of thoughts like that running through my mind as I continued to skate, but that same season, I ended up being able to pull off my best performance at the [2012 World Figure Skating] Championships in France. That’s when I was finally able to grasp the true meaning of everyone cheering for me, and the way it spurred me on. I realized it gave me the strength to skate. Itoi So it surpassed just being an assigned meaning. Hanyu Yeah. I had to strip away a lot of that noise, but I was still surrounded by people wholeheartedly cheering for me. From my perspective, those high expectations were a source of pressure and weight, but ever since then I’ve learned that those are the driving force for my getting stronger. Itoi So that competition in France was really the turning point for you. Hanyu It was. Itoi What could you tell me specifically about that performance? Hanyu I’d actually injured myself in training before that competition. My coach told me I could call it for the day, but I was a little concerned about my set and went to do a quadruple jump. I suffered a sprain when I landed. I ended up competing in the short program like that, but I was still able to pull off a quadruple jump. I ended up making a mistake on my last, simple triple jump which landed me in seventh place for a tough start. But because I’d been able to land a quadruple jump, I was still pretty ecstatic. I couldn’t believe I’d been able to land that jump even though I was injured. I gave the credit to all my hard work, but that’s when my mom chided me for looking at it wrong. She told me not to take for granted all the people who supported me and cheered for me between the time I got that sprain to the time I landed that quadruple jump. Itoi That’s amazing. Hanyu That’s when I realized she was right, that my performance was directly related to the support of so many people. I’d envisioned all the cheers from my usual fans and from all the people cheering me on from the disaster zone, and I skated with all that gratitude in my heart. And as a result, I had an extremely good performance. I think that was a turning point in how I viewed pressure. (*Hanyu’s 7th place free skate performance was “Romeo and Juliet.” He completed all his jumps perfectly in the first half, but fell during a transition and placed both hands on the ice. But besides that, the level of perfection of his jumps and his emotional expression during the performance were so overwhelming that even the fall felt like part of the performance as an obstacle for Romeo and Juliet—for Yuzuru Hanyu—to overcome. The audience was captivated and cheered wildly at the end of his performance. In the end, he achieved his best score of the season and placed third overall. It was his first World Championship, and at 17 years and 3 months old he became the youngest Japanese male medalist ever.) Itoi So you didn’t take that weight off your shoulders, you accepted it. Hanyu Yeah. I let myself feel the weight of all the people who were cheering for me, and was able to become stronger and develop my own style from that weight. Itoi In other words, Yuzuru Hanyu stands at the tip of the pencil lead and writes words and expressions, but none of that could happen without the body of the pencil. Hanyu Right. Itoi Everyone who’s cheering you on is on the same team, but it’s not so clear as it would be for a team sport. You might be aware of that support, but I’m sure you still feel a sense of loneliness when you’re out there skating on the ice. Hanyu Ah, yeah. Itoi It’s a lot to ask for someone to understand all that and accept it—it takes more than just willpower. Hanyu I could see that. I’ve said this many times, but I’ve been incredibly blessed to experience what I have. I’ve had my share of trials and tribulations, of course, but I’m grateful for the opportunities to experience so many amazing things. Itoi For sure. Hanyu I think I’ll be able to look back and point at the experiences in my life that made me stronger. I’ve already had lots of things like that, and will continue to. So I feel really blessed. (Laughs) Part 4: In terms of MOTHER 2 Spoiler Itoi If there was a “Story of Yuzuru Hanyu,” it would be about a boy with strong mirror neurons that made him more like the people he looked up to, and whose skills quickly powered up. What about his personality? Hanyu His personality. Itoi Main characters grow up in their stories, and their personalities tend to change alongside their skills. What was it like for you? Hanyu Hmm, well, if I were to explain it in terms of MOTHER 2... Itoi That’s a lovely example, thank you. Hanyu (Laughs) In terms of MOTHER 2, Ness for example gets homesick. Itoi Yes he does. (*The main character of MOTHER 2, Ness, is afflicted with homesickness once in a while and is unable to fight in battle. It’s cured by visiting or calling home.) Hanyu But as he gets stronger and stronger, there’s a certain level at which he no longer becomes homesick. I think that’s an incredibly astute way to portray the way that people grow up. It starts by recklessly plowing ahead, but you make friends along the way, you get to know more people, and it’s in that environment that you’re able to fight on. Once you realize that’s happening, it seems clear that the main character’s personality would also be changing as he goes. Itoi That’s true. So in other words, no matter how much strength a person has, if they only go along life with their own power, they’re going to lose sight of their goal along the way. Hanyu Yeah. And for Ness, that was during the time he got homesick the most easily. Itoi Yeah, for sure. As you explain that, I’m kind of thinking that you’re someone who might have the strength to fight with your own power. But strength alone won’t keep you on the right path. I’ve heard it explained in terms of swords before, with a heroic sword and an evil sword. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi They’re both incredibly strong, but in the end, a holy sword would prevail over the evil one in some way. So it’s more than just strength and ability—you have to change as a person, too. Hanyu That’s true. If you only focus on getting stronger, you’ll end up getting careless. In MOTHER 2, you level up so you can beat some enemies you weren’t able to beat before, and that makes your level go up even further. At some point you get strong enough that the battle automatically ends when you run into that enemy. Itoi Yeah, that happens when you’re a certain level above the enemy. Hanyu As a player, that’s really satisfying, but speaking from a sense of character, that doesn’t seem quite right. Itoi Ah, I can see that. Hanyu Until that point you’ve been coming across laid back guys and middle aged ladies and gang members and aliens and fighting various characters, but after a certain point you start to look at everything in terms of experience points. I think that same distorted perspective could happen in real life, too. For example, say I train and win first place in a competition. I’ll be really happy at first, but then I get better and better, and winning competitions becomes a given. That would start creating a distance between me and everyone else. That’s not necessarily the path taken with an evil sword, but it does start to feel that way. Itoi I think humans inherently desire stronger and stronger things, but if something were to have strength and really nothing else, there’s something dull about that. Hanyu Yeah. So the games in the MOTHER series end with final battles that involve a strength different than the standard strength that had been relied upon until then. The commands in the battle system aren’t even the same anymore. Itoi Yes, that’s very true. Hanyu It’s not about inflicting damage, it’s about a heartfelt appeal that extends beyond the characters and actually comes from the player. I think that’s why, to this day, the games have so deeply touched each person who has played them. It takes more than strength to move someone to their core. Itoi Definitely, yes. Hanyu This feels similar to how people that cheered me on after the Tohoku disaster had their own individual stories, and it wasn’t something that could be measured in numbers. I think the reason I feel this way is because when I was little, I had the experience of facing a pitch-black TV screen in the final battle of MOTHER 2, and seeing myself reflected there. Itoi I made that game in the hopes that some kids somewhere out there would be moved in that way, but hearing that it really did hit the mark makes me very happy. Of course, that’s not the only thing I wanted to get across, and I think part of why people were able to get it was because it was presented within a fun thing they were playing. Hanyu I think so too. I wasn’t only moved when playing MOTHER 2, I also had a lot of points in the game where I thought “now that’s just ridiculous.” Itoi (Laughs) Hanyu The script and the puns and stuff struck me as so ridiculous as I played through the game. (Laughs) That cockroach that was in the cave was named “That thing” like you didn’t even want to say what it was. (*Violent Roach in the English version) Itoi And “That other thing.” (Laughs) Hanyu I was like, oh jeez, it evolved. (Laughs) Itoi And the bad guys that keep showing up and each one says “I am the third strongest.” Hanyu Yeah, the moles! (Laughs) Itoi Those kinds of things are more for scoring artistic points when making a game, rather than technical points. Hanyu Ah, yeah. (Laughs) Itoi No matter how strong the framework or technical setup of a game, there’s no guarantee that you’ll be able to express what you want. Even outside of games, when I’m making something, I enjoy seeing to what degree I can flesh out that framework with interesting things. In your case, too, no matter how fast you skate or how high you jump, it’s about performing something that others enjoy. It’s more than simply getting stronger. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi Man, I had no idea you were such a good MOTHER 2 player. (Laughs) Hanyu (Laughs) Part 5: Margins, expressions, and scores Spoiler Itoi When it comes to artistic expression rather than technique, how do you see your own expression? Hanyu I wonder... I’m not the best judge of myself, but it’s at least important to me to leave some open space, some margins, for people to think on their own. Itoi Margins. Hanyu I think it’s probably the same deal with poetry and copywriting and stuff. You put everything into it to express yourself, but it’s also better to leave some margins there. That allows space for the audience to envision something in their own mind, and that lets you get the message across to them. Itoi So it’s not that you have a complete performance from start to finish, but that you’ve got a completed performance stored within some kind of container. Hanyu You could put it that way. It’s like a beautiful goldfish swimming around in a clean tank. The goldfish itself is complete, but it’s a question of what kind of water plants you install around your goldfish. For example, each person sees things in a different way, depending on their background and values. So if there aren’t margins to allow for each person to insert themselves, they’ll just kind of take what they see at face value, say “Yeah, got it,” and that’s it. Itoi Maybe it won’t be much more than an external concept at that point. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi It all comes together to form a landscape, random foreign objects and white noise and all. So while you’re paying no heed to how much the audience knows what you’re doing as you skate, from the audience perspective, they’re watching the entire scene before their eyes, including themselves as they sit in it. I’m sure each person is seeing a different thing as they watch. That’s why it’s different when you’re watching players from your own country versus someone from another country. Hanyu Yeah. For example, I had a program called “Heaven and Earth” that I performed for my last season in a competition, and it’s because Japanese people know about Uesugi Kenshin and Takeda Shingen that they see my program the way they do. People outside of Japan might wonder who Uesugi Kenshin is, but they’re each seeing their own version of the scene as they watch a performance by Yuzuru Hanyu. It’s fascinating to have a world of expressions like that. Itoi Like each person watching is adding something from their own perspective. Hanyu Yeah. And it’s important to consciously include those margins I mentioned so that the viewer has room to use their imagination in that deliberate space. Itoi Ahh, so you’re setting up space for those margins without knowing what’s going to be filled in there. In a way, you’re entering the rink with quite a magnificent scene around you. When were you able to start doing things like making room for those margins? Hanyu I started to notice it gradually over time. I think the way to do that in skating is probably the same concept as doing it for watercolor paintings. Only the tools and the techniques are different. With written works, a novel with in-depth expressions might add some margins by including some sections more simply worded. Copywriting, meanwhile, would involve a different technique for adding margins since it’s only working with short catchphrases. But the basic expressions and foundation of the two are probably the same. Itoi Yeah. Speaking of that blank space and range of expression, that reminds me of something. The late composer Ryuichi Sakamoto used to be holed up in his studio for hours, and one time I asked him what he was doing. He said he was deciding on what sound to use, so apparently he spent the most time of all just searching for the kind of sound he wanted. Hanyu Wow. Itoi Not the melody, not the rhythm, but the sound itself he said was the most difficult to figure out. It sounded just like you were talking about earlier with those margins. Hanyu Yeah, it’s all about the quality and nature. If you’ve got something written down, it’s going to come across entirely differently if you’ve got it written by hand, versus the Mr. Saturn font, versus a standard font. Itoi It’s all about the sound. Hanyu That’s right. And the nature of it. Itoi Take a quadruple jump, for example. Any of them would have you spinning in four circles, so maybe they’re the same from a technical perspective, but each one is going to leave a different impression. Hanyu That’s exactly it. When it comes to technical points, the standards for jumps are pretty black and white, so there’s a tendency to focus pretty hard on jumps for the sake of getting a high score. But if you go back to the basics, I think Johnny Weir, for example, has a very particular approach to his jumps in that it’s all about his posture when he lands the jump. His landing posture was based on ballet, and cultivating those fundamentals allowed him to descend with such beautiful posture and maintain his flow. That landing allowed him to express himself continuously alongside the music without those jumps cutting his performance into separate pieces. That’s probably the artistry that Johnny was aiming for, and what I’d want to aim for as well. But if you try to combine that technique with a truly difficult jump, it’s hard to pull off. No matter how beautiful your landing is, though, if you can’t make those difficult jumps, you’re not going to get the points, and you’re not going to get in the rankings. Itoi Oh, I see! So his ability isn’t necessarily expressed in his scores. And there’s no leeway in the scores assigned to jumps. Hanyu Right. There are strict standards set for points from jumps, and none of that changes based on anyone’s personal values. But when it comes to expressiveness, speed, depth of the pose, a sense of happiness, and theatricality, that all depends on the sensibilities and values of the viewer. So difficult jumps are necessary as not to have those scores swayed by those external values. That’s the difficulty of competitive figure-skating. You can’t just specialize solely in expression. In a way, I’m aiming to surpass this environment where Johnny performed beautifully without quadruple jumps while Plushenko fit three quadruple jumps into a single performance and did quadruple-triple-triple jumps in a single combination. I’d been chasing that during my most competitive era, and I feel like it continues to this day. Itoi It seems like expression and scoring are at odds with each other, and because they’re both crucial aspects of figure-skating, there’s no easy answer. I’m sure you feel that, too. Hanyu Yes. If I hadn’t known how unstable the scores were for expression and things assigned by someone’s values, I probably wouldn’t have been trying to master more difficult jumps. And even if I had, I probably wouldn’t have been trying to do them with such a high level of quality. I have a strong sense of my own world that I want to express, but I also have a strong desire to win through a performance that isn’t judged by someone’s personal values, has a level of difficulty to it that’s very straightforward, and has universal scoring. I think I’ve been able to come as far as I have because I feel strongly in both directions. Part 6: Figure skating is hard Spoiler Itoi The approach for scoring points for expression versus technique might vary, but they both require practice. Hanyu They do. So I’ve been thinking lately about how truly difficult figure skating is. There are just too many different things required from an athlete. Itoi It does seem like a lot. (Laughs) Hanyu For example, if this were about speed, the race course would have a consistent set-up so you could practice, compare your performance, and concentrate on it. Of course, there are some difficulties unique to competitions with so few elements to it, but you can at least spend five or six hours a day training for that one thing. But with figure skating, there are six types of jumps for example, but free skating segments require the inclusion of at least seven jumps. So at the very least, you have to practice for seven jumps. At that point there’s just too much you have to work with. Itoi I’m sure. Hanyu You also need to train for spins, which also come in several different types. Turns come in all kinds of types too, so you can turn towards the right, towards the left, face backwards—all kinds of things. It’s incredibly complicated to train for figure skating, which in itself has come to make me feel like it’s also an art form. Itoi Not to mention having to synchronize with the music. Hanyu Yes, if you can. I feel like I can’t quite get it right. Itoi You mean you can’t match your performance with the music? Hanyu I do when I’m practicing, but if my figure skating performance were to be treated like one would a street dance like hip hop, or a jazz dance, there’d be a lot of concerns to bring up about it. I think there’s some leeway when it comes to music synchronization in figure skating in particular. Itoi Oh, I didn’t realize that. Hanyu To put it simply, figure skating involves skating along the ice at all times. If the music pauses for a brief moment, the skater is still moving. Itoi Right. Hanyu If a song has a 4/4 time signature and the song stops briefly on the 16th note, you could technically come to a stop then. But if you add stops across those repeating four-beat measures in time with the music and start introducing dynamics to match it, you won’t be able to figure skate anymore. You can’t just stop with the music like that. If you do want to express your set alongside the music, though, you have to practice for it. You’d have to develop new techniques and think about how to express things so that you could add movement to them. As far as whether it’s necessary or not, I don’t think figure skating goes so far as to require that much. Itoi That’s an amazing way of looking at it. I can tell you’ve already discovered that on your own. Hanyu Once you realize that’s the case, you can’t really unsee it. I assume there are people out there who watch for the dance aspect in our performances and feel disappointed, like figure skating doesn’t live up to what they expected. So from that perspective, while people might wonder why we don’t pick out the rhythm and accents from the song, it’s because we can’t. Itoi Because you’re skating the whole time. Hanyu Right, because we’re skating the whole time. But when I look at it from their perspective I feel like I want to try it out. Itoi Which would mean you’re aiming to accomplish everything, really. So in this case it would involve unnecessary things? Hanyu I suppose I am doing unnecessary things. Itoi (Laughs) Hanyu Things like that wouldn’t have resulted in any points when I was in competitions, but now that I’m a professional skater and want the audience watching my shows to see the performance for what it is, I think the bar is in a totally different place. Itoi Maybe the athletes have more fun when they take a path outside of competitions. Hanyu You actually won’t even find competitive figure skaters really going that route. Itoi Is it from a lack of avenues in that direction? Hanyu More of a lack of awareness. Itoi Oh, really? Hanyu Figure skating is probably more like ballet, if you had to compare. Looking at the origins of ballet, there was a live orchestra performing in the pit right in front of the stage. It’s less about the ballerina making sure to match everything just right with the song, and more about the going along with the sound of the orchestral music. Figure skating is similar in that there's a structure to the techniques. There’s a run-up to that point where you jump, you come down, and know a sound will be coming up that you’ll want to try and match. But that aspect isn’t necessarily asked of figure skaters. Itoi The aspect of matching dance moves to the time of the music. Hanyu Right. But if I were an audience member, it would be hard to accept that after watching for so long. Itoi That’s a tough audience, then. Are there people who actually feel like that? Hanyu Certainly. Itoi Even comparing it to other dances. Hanyu Yeah. Not just matching it up to the music, but other aspects as well. For example, if you look at it as a ballerina dancer, you might recognize the way figure skating overlaps with how ballet follows music. The ballet-like movements of figure skating are definitely lacking in some respects, and from a hip-hop dancer’s point of view, figure skaters aren’t very good at keeping up with the rhythm. But that’s not entirely within anyone’s control, and the number of years and hours sunken into training is different than dance. I mentioned before how figure skating is a genre with challenging standards for training. There are so many different things that require your focus. But ballerinas and other dancers spend decades learning rhythm and matching their expressive movements to it. Even if we figure skaters put all our effort into it and practiced it for a year or two, it wouldn't be that easy—and it’d be difficult to perform ballet or hip-hop moves on ice. I think it’s important to understand that there are significant differences when comparing figure skating to other methods of expression. Part 7: Within a limited time Spoiler Itoi It must be hard to practice figure skating when it requires access to ice. Hanyu Yeah. And Japan has a relatively short season where you can go on the ice, so that makes it hard to improve at skating—or at least to have the necessary conditions to be able to train on ice. Itoi If you’ve got such a long stretch of time when you’re unable to train, that must mean you’ve got all the more time to think. Hanyu That could be true. I don’t consider it having a long time to think, but rather that I’ve got a very limited amount of time to practice. I probably think exponentially more than other people, though. Itoi That’s the impression I get. Hanyu I feel like kids who do figure skating nowadays see it as more of a sport. Like they’d see how many variations they can jump. When it comes to jumps, you can’t necessarily just think about it forever—at some point you’ll face the answer to what you can do. Expression is a whole different story. It’s more philosophical, so you can think about it forever and ever and never reach a true answer. Jumps, however, have a set definition of success and there’s an actual correct answer for it. So to some extent, there’s only so much you can think about it. Itoi In other words, it’s easy to assume if you practice jumping a lot you’ll be able to do it. People tend to see that as a matter of hard work, but that might be something that actually makes it easy in the end—all you have to do is try it over and over again. Hanyu Ah, that’s true. Itoi There’s a sense of accomplishment behind doing something a ton of times. It seems like that approach stands in the way of people nowadays, though. But listening to you, because you’re not able to do it very often, each and every practice you hold atop the ice seems like a very precious moment you have to take seriously. Hanyu That’s exactly it. It’s a precious opportunity, and I don’t think it’s limited to figure skating. No one’s going to teach you how to make the best of each of those opportunities. It’s not like school, for example, where you’re told to write a kanji ten times to memorize it. Itoi Right. Hanyu I’m sure that kind of teaching style is gradually changing over time, but I think what’s important is someone’s ability to fit quality learning into a short period of time. That one’s crucial for figure skating. Itoi I see figure skating practice is hard enough to get you thinking that deeply about it. Hanyu It is. (Laughs) Itoi There are less places to skate on the ice than when compared to pools and such. Hanyu Yeah. There’s really very little ice in Japan, so it can be a scramble to get a spot to practice. When I was in junior high school, I couldn’t skate any more than 45 minutes a day. And it’s extremely important to practice figure skating while playing music, but when I was finally able to get some time on the ice, I was rarely able to play the song that was for my own program. That’s when I started to wonder what I could do in order to improve. Itoi Has that changed now that you’re done competing and are performing in ice shows? Hanyu It’s basically the same situation. I’ve always loved the sports aspect of figure skating, so when I’ve got time to practice, I work on jumps and spins and really pour my physical energy into it. But lately, I’ve been making sure to set aside time to reset because I’ve used up so much energy. I’ll play games and read manga and stuff when I’m not skating. Now that I’m producing my own ice show, though, I’ve always got on the back of my mind questions about what kind of story I want to tell. So even when I’m relaxing with a manga or game, I’m thinking about what I can incorporate into my ice shows, and it gets tiring. (Laughs) Itoi Ah. (Laughs) So you’re a producer now, through and through. Hanyu Yeah. It’s not just about coming up with ideas for how to portray the world I want to express, it’s also about taking actual steps to do so. I’ve got a lot to learn, and I feel like I need to absorb a lot of things and increase my skills and vocabulary to properly convey the image I want to express. It’s tough. Itoi There’s never an end to things like that, and that’s what’s so fun. However, if you get too caught up in your own world or imagery, you’ll push away the audience. Hanyu No matter how cool or pretty of imagery you’ve come up with, you need to have a desire to express its essence to the audience. If you don’t get that image across to the audience, you’re losing sight of what you need to prioritize. So you need to make things easy to understand. But at the same time, if you don’t focus on things that you personally want to focus on, you’ll lose your motivation to do it in the first place. I make sure to maintain that balance. Itoi Do you have anyone to talk to who feels the same way about that? It seems like you’d be stuck going in circles if you had to do that by yourself. Hanyu There’s someone I call Mikiko-sensei who handles direction for the show, and I talk to her a lot. But in the end, I do have the responsibility to create it myself. Itoi Yeah. Hanyu Sure, there are times I kind of get stuck in the mud, but fortunately, it’s easy nowadays to access all kinds of information and get hints on what to do. But on the other hand, with all that information, the things we make are all the easier to discard and consume. Even if we make something good, people will take it, say “Hey, that’s nice,” and then tuck it away in some corner somewhere. So I think about how we should portray things in such a disposable age we’re in now. If something disappears, we still need to make something new. It’s a bit tough, but I think there are a lot of clues for us to work from. Part 8: People who look back 100 years from now Spoiler Itoi No matter how much effort you put into your work, I think it’s difficult to create something that will last through generations. Nowadays everything is exchanged and consumed as information, and I think there’s a certain kind of fear in creating things in an era like this. Hanyu I think at the very core of what I want to express is something that remains untouched by time, so as long as I don’t waver on that, I should be okay. I don’t think I’d be able to convey the core of my message if I was afraid of getting engulfed by a wave of information. Itoi That’s true. If you’re scared or hesitant, the parts that were good could end up going bad from underneath you. Hanyu Yeah. As long as I portray the core message. Even with music, you’ve got sources of sound that provide an even better sound than CDs, and you’ve got access to the entire collection with subscription services. Even so, there are more and more people who want that analog sound and prefer to listen to a vinyl record. They probably appreciate whatever sound that can only come from a vinyl record. So even with the amount of information we have access to today, vinyls have a freshness that you can only find in them. Time marches on, but I can see that not everything fades away. Itoi Yeah. Hanyu So it seems more important to make sure we aren’t afraid when producing our work. If, for example, I was figure skating in the 1960’s, I don’t think there would be any evidence of my performances left behind. But if I continue to leave behind images of my performances and stories I’ve told through my ice shows, there will come a time when someone watches that video. I want to be confident that I’m making something that ten, twenty, fifty, even a hundred years from now, whoever watches it really likes it. Itoi It’s nice that you’re recording these videos of your ice shows while also having an audience watching in person. Not only will the audience be able to say “I was there for that,” those who they tell it to will say “You’re so lucky!” Hanyu Ah, yeah. Itoi So there’s a positive aspect to that permanence, and a positive aspect to that transience. During a fireworks show, for example, a brilliant flash of fireworks will fade away, but you’ll remember it. There’s only so much you can do to photograph it. Sure, there are ways to capture the image of the fireworks brilliantly nowadays, but it doesn’t compare to being there in person. So each side of it has its merits. Hanyu That’s true. There are still people to this day who tell me that they feel blessed to have had the opportunity to be in this arena back in 2015. Itoi Oh, I’m sure of it. That’ll stay with them forever. Hanyu And on that note, MOTHER 2 came out in 1994, right? Itoi Ah, right. (Laughs) Hanyu I was born in December 1994, so when MOTHER 2 came out in August that year, I wasn’t born yet. So that game really did cross over time and stay in my heart. Itoi Oh, I see. (Laughs) Hanyu It has been 30 years, but it’s still there. The Super Nintendo was just so alluring with its pixel graphics and the roughness of its sounds that included all kinds of sampling. There’s a gentleness and nostalgia to it that goes even beyond whether the game itself is good or not, but has more to do with being an irreplaceable presence in my life with so many memories piled up in it. Surely it’s in part because the game itself still exists. Itoi Yeah. If no one could play the game anymore, all we’d be able to do is talk about the memories of it. Hanyu Truly. So it really is important to have copies of something. I’ve got those videos and things saving copies of all the things I wanted to express over the years. Itoi It’s nice having our own means of saving an archive of people’s lives at Hobonichi, whether that be through Hobo Nikkan Itoi Shinbun or the recorded videos of our Hobonichi School. For example, if someone has gone down in history, sure they’ll show up on a chronological table, but the details—what were they eating back then, and what topics of conversation did they turn to when passing the time—all disappear. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi So that’s why I mentioned that our interviews are probably the most laid back interview you’ve been in, because that ease is one of the most important parts for me. In standard interviews, that light banter tends to be edited out in the end. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi But we don’t edit it out. We see that as an opportunity to faithfully portray what was there at the time. I feel like that’s kind of the approach I’ve taken since the very beginning, too. And it actually seems the same way with MOTHER. The kind of nonsense that was in the game is just as nonsensical when looking at it today. Hanyu That’s what’s so good about it. Take that one pop quiz that one of the NPC’s brought up in the game: “A Beatles song, ’XXXterday’. Yes or no?” Itoi That one will definitely not make it to any chronological table. Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi But it will remain as a memory for someone. Hanyu Yeah. Itoi Talking to you today, though, I feel like you’ve taught me all kinds of new things about MOTHER. Hanyu No, no. (Laughs) Part 9: Confusing things, catchy things Spoiler Itoi In the end, what makes something fun is probably your already being happy and having fun, but the people around you sense that and you’re able to share and exchange those feelings with others. Hanyu I agree. But although that seems simple, it’s something that’s hard to achieve. In the world of expression, you tend to go in the direction that makes you feel good when you create something, and you end up prioritizing what you want to say. You may think you’re focusing on the delivery, but it turns out you’re simply going through what you think is good. It’s difficult to strike that balance of being able to share what you think is good, and having the audience resonate with it. Itoi Whether you’re an artist or a musician, it’s something everyone who creates something faces. But that wall might be what makes that desire to express yourself and convey your message so strong. Hanyu That’s true. I also think that maybe not everything can really be conveyed. For example, if someone who loves Picasso looks at his artwork and tries to describe everything Picasso wanted to convey... Itoi They couldn’t. Hanyu No, I don’t think they could. But even though I thought Picasso’s paintings were weird as a kid, as I grew older, I came to find them pretty awesome. People’s values change over time, even if they don’t get it at first. Itoi On the other hand, no matter how much an artist thinks they hit the nail on the head, some things simply can’t be conveyed. And they might make something they feel like they compromised on, and that ends up moving people’s hearts the most. Hanyu It really is hard, isn’t it? I struggle with this often. (Laughs) Itoi Yeah. (Laughs) Poet Shuntaro Tanigawa once told me that “Out of all the poems I’ve written, I think the one everyone knows the most are the lyrics to Astro Boy.” And even though he has written so many wonderful poems, he said he thought it was great that the lyrics he wrote for an anime theme song were the most famous. I thought that was an extremely cool thing to say. Hanyu I see. But I guess if you were asked to create something like Astro Boy continuously and that became your lifework, that would be hard too. Itoi You’re right, that would be difficult. Paul McCartney has created countless songs, but they’re sung and praised because he made them as popular music. If he declared “This is the type of music I want to create!” and only produced songs that were difficult to comprehend, I’m sure the listeners would have a hard time. Hanyu Mozart, for example, is just like that. The music he composed as court music that fit into the mold are widely known, but the music he composed during his later years—the music he actually wanted to create that expressed his true feelings—are completely buried. Of course, there are hardcore fans who love that kind of music, but it isn’t common. Itoi But, I’m guessing that if Mozart hadn’t dug deep into those areas, a melody as famous as Twinkle Twinkle Little Star wouldn’t have been created. Hanyu I agree. Because he had a strong motivation as a writer and an artist, he was able to create catchy things as well. But as a writer, he probably would have been more happy if people understood what he truly wanted to create. Itoi When someone understands confusing things you’ve been thinking about, it makes you happy, as if it recreates all the time you spent thinking alone. Hanyu That’s what it is. That’s probably why I can’t stop expressing myself. Itoi Yeah. Hanyu There’s still that dilemma of wanting to create what you want to create, but still also having to produce something catchy. Itoi But the happiness you feel when you’re able to create something you’re sure everyone will enjoy, that’s exciting too. Hanyu That’s true, but there are times that I’m sure of that, yet it ends up being a bust. (Laughs) Itoi Is that so? (Laughs) Hanyu That’s the difficult but interesting part of expressing yourself. Itoi In that sense, you say you like MOTHER 2, but it isn’t something I put my life on the line to make. Hanyu Ah, yes. Itoi Creating games isn’t my lifework, so I probably made it as if I were playing a really bad game of baseball in some public square. Even so, I didn’t only have fun all the time. It was hard, and I had my share of difficulties. Hanyu Yes. Itoi I definitely don’t think I created a piece of art, but when I meet someone like you, I feel happy that someone understood what I wanted to do. I don’t know, my feelings on it are all messed up. (Laughs) Hanyu In MOTHER 2, each town has a small story, and it’s assembled like a combination of short stories. Itoi Right. Hanyu You then collect a melody, one by one, which is engraved into the Sound Stone at the base of the story. The ice show I’m creating now has small programs existing like short stories, and that might be similar to the game’s premise. Itoi Is that so? I doubt the game has influenced your show, but I’d be happy if there’s something in common. Part 10: No matter when the world might end Spoiler Hanyu It costs so much money to create an ice rink for an ice show that we rely on sales to be able to even continue holding the show. Itoi Ah, because you have to create a rink somewhere where there isn’t any ice. Hanyu Right. So even if we reserve the venue for a week, it takes so much time to prepare the ice that we can only spend two of those days holding the actual performance. Itoi I see, I see. Hanyu You might think of increasing the number of performances in a day, but that would lower the quality of the show. I’m sure there’s a way to make the show into something that’s easily repeatable, easy to manage, and is catchy to the audience. People would also enjoy it if I repeated some well-known performances I’ve done in the past. But then I wouldn’t really feel like I’m enjoying performing, or feel much meaning behind it. If I’m going to put on a show, I’d want the audience to have a special experience that money can’t buy. Itoi Yeah. Hanyu I want to create something that people will remember forever, like MOTHER 2. Something that doesn’t end with one performance, but something I continue to create. Itoi Even when you’re done competing, you really never stop, do you? Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi But you have a long road ahead of you. Hanyu You mean my life? Itoi Yeah. Hanyu Hmm... You can’t really tell anymore, can you? Things are so unstable in the world, and who knows what kind of natural disasters may occur at any time. Itoi Ah. Hanyu From that perspective, since the ice show takes a full year of preparation, by the time it’s ready to release to the world, I’m not thinking about the rest of my life. I think I just feel like, “Okay, we made it, everything’s fine.” Itoi Have you always thought that way? Hanyu I don’t think the way I think has changed. I experienced the Tohoku earthquake and tsunami, COVID happened, and now we’ve just got the general state of the world, all while traveling around the world to skate. I don’t think living normally has really been the norm for a while. I’ve skated while traveling to various places across the world. Seeing the recent situation, I think that being able to live normally is not something to be taken for granted. Itoi I see. Hanyu I’ve kind of lived my life bracing for things to happen. Like I live my life in such a way that no matter when the world might end, I’ll have no regrets about missing out on something. Itoi ...I didn’t think someone as young as you would tell me that. Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi What I mean by that is, usually elderly people are the ones who think we shouldn’t act like we’ve got all the time in the world. It’s when you start to see the end in sight that you realize you can’t do as much and feel compelled to do what you’ve wanted so there are no regrets. I’m surprised someone as young as you talks like that so earnestly and matter-of-factly. Hanyu I’m sure part of it is having experienced the earthquake. Itoi That earthquake had a large impact on everyone. It made a lot of people realize that we don’t have forever. Hanyu I was practicing when it struck, and it seemed like the building was going to collapse. I honestly thought that was how I was going to die. Itoi I’m sure. Hanyu I’ve taken some courses in bioethics as well, and from the moment we’re born, we’re already heading toward death. After fertilization and cell division, we come into this world as a single being, and then we spend the rest of the time heading towards death. That’s the law of the universe—even the universe is expanding, but will eventually shrink and disappear at some point. I understand that’s how things work, so I just think it is what it is. Itoi Things will end one day. Hanyu It will end one day. If it’s going to eventually end, we should do the best we can now. Whether it’s deciding you’re not going to do anything today, or will spend the day making lots of dad jokes, do it right. (Laughs) Itoi Yeah. (Laughs) Hanyu I have this vague feeling of wanting to live my life that way. Itoi Did you get that mindset from participating in and winning world class competitions from a young age? Hanyu I don’t know if that’s necessarily it. Itoi What if you were a normal high school student? Hanyu Even if I hadn’t taken up skating, I probably would have thought the same way. Itoi Wow. So it’s more a boy who already had that mindset, and he just happened to become a figure skater and end up winning a gold medal at the Olympics. Hanyu Yes, you’re right. When I first started skating, my parents always told me to quit if I was going to neglect my studies. As an extension of that, in junior high school they told me to quit if I was going to lose sight of myself as a person. If I was going to be so engrossed in figure skating that I start losing common sense as a human being or my sense of self-worth, then they told me to just quit now. I remember begging my parents to let me continue skating. Itoi Ah. Hanyu So, whether I’m skating or not, I’d like to think that I’ve always considered whether things are truly right or not, or whether I’m trapped inside my own way of thinking. In that sense, I think there’s the life of Yuzuru Hanyu, and skating is just a layer on top of that. Itoi That’s amazing. Especially what your mother told you. But she probably said that to light the way to happiness for her child. Hanyu I guess so. (Laughs) Itoi It was for your happiness that she would have stopped you from skating if it started to change your personality. Hanyu Yes. So I can say for sure that I don’t dislike studying. I’ve been thinking lately about what I would have been if I hadn’t taken up skating. Whether I ended up being a doctor or a painter or something, I’m sure I would have gone hard on it. Itoi I can see that. (Laughs) Hanyu So, in my life this time around, I made it to where I am because figure skating was right in front of me and I chose to learn it. But I don’t think I would have changed as a human being. Itoi Makes me want to see that parallel universe, too. Hanyu I think it’d be really, really dull. (Laughs) Part 11: Normal is admirable Spoiler Hanyu Apparently I didn’t speak much for the first two years of my life, and only showed any feeling toward what I was interested in. Itoi That’s interesting. Hanyu I guess I didn’t feel the need to talk. But here I am talking so much right now. (Laughs) Itoi (Laughs) What kind of child were you? Did you play the same way as the kids around you? Hanyu No, I think I was quite different. Itoi I’ve never heard about this before. Hanyu With figure skating, you need to practice really early in the morning and late at night because you can’t train properly when the ice rink is open to the public. So we reserve the ice rink in the morning, then it’s open to the public, and then when their business hours end we can reserve it again and practice at night. During my first years of elementary school, I wanted to play with my friends, but I couldn’t train for figure skating seriously without getting some sleep before going back to practice. So basically, I’d practice in the morning from around 6 AM until 10 AM, go back home, eat, and take a nap. Then I’d wake up and prepare for skating practice again. That was how I spent every weekend. Itoi That’s definitely different from other children. Hanyu Even on school days, the ice rink was nearby, so I’d head straight there after school to practice. I wasn’t always on ice, but practice was from 3 PM to 8 PM, so I didn’t have much time to play with my friends. Itoi So it was already like that when you were a young kid in early elementary school. Hanyu Also, the figure skating scene back then was mainly composed of female athletes. Nowadays there are more male athletes, but figure skating used to be seen as a sport for girls. Itoi The ratio must have been somewhat similar to ballet or something, then. Hanyu Exactly. I was surrounded by girls, and I felt no discomfort with that situation. So I didn’t have a boyhood where I played games or sports with my friends. Itoi You seem to have had a really good understanding of what a normal childhood looked like, even though yours was so unique. Hanyu I wanted to be normal. Itoi Ah, so you’d learned about normality. Hanyu Yeah. When I was little, I really wanted to be normal. I liked baseball, so I wanted to go to the park with my friends after school and play baseball and video games and stuff. It was around the time when new portable game devices like the Game Boy and Game Boy Advance were getting more advanced, and I wanted to battle my friends on them. But my practice hours always conflicted with the hours my friends were available to play. I knew that I needed to train seriously to be able to win a gold medal at the Olympics, so there was part of me that gave up being normal. Itoi So, you admired being normal. Hanyu Yes. I admire being normal. Itoi Normal is admirable. Hanyu I still do think that to this day, to be honest. I wish I could be normal, but a part of me knows that I’d be bored if I was normal. There are things that I thought were normal but grew to realize they were anything but, so I’ve come to understand how weird I am. Itoi Not that that’s a good thing or a bad thing. Hanyu Right. If I were normal, then I wouldn’t be me. Itoi Yeah. So your hobby is to be normal, then. Hanyu I admire being normal. Itoi But now that you’ve stepped away from competitive skating, have the things you’re able to do expanded? Hanyu Yes, so, I guess I’m currently going from “normal” to “weird.” With competitive figure skating, there are rules of things you should or shouldn’t do, so it’s a world where “normal” is very easy to define. Itoi I see. Hanyu But I’m currently at a place where there aren’t any rules. Rather, it’s about expression, which doesn’t even necessarily ask for normal. At the same time, many people coming to my shows want to see normal. If I show them too much weird stuff it’ll go over their heads, so I always think about how to balance things out. Of course, there are people who are looking to see something out of the ordinary, and I do my ice shows because I want to, but at the same time, I still want to convey a message. Itoi So those restrictions from the competitions have been lifted, and now you’re a mix of normal and weird. Hanyu Right. It’s easy for someone looking in from the outside to say how I should do it. Sure, I get it, they’re right, but that’s not how I want to do it. I face too many of these kinds of dilemmas, so it’s all messed up inside my head. But I think that that messiness makes expression special. Itoi I’m sure. The greater the complication, the more power will emerge once you break through and make a single choice. I guess that’s when people are moved by sports or art. Hanyu Yes. What’s really interesting is how moving sports can be, even though unlike art, it’s not about expressing emotion. Itoi Yeah. Hanyu For example, I’d watch a marathon or an ekiden race, and even though I’m not particularly rooting for an athlete, I think of how hard they’re doing, and I tear up. Whether that be baseball or soccer, sports have the power to do that. Itoi Definitely. Hanyu But I don’t think it’s the expression that does it. I think it’s a matter of the results. Results are what make sports so moving. Itoi Ahh. Hanyu On the other hand, now I’m in a place where there are no results to be moved by, and all I really have to compete with is my own expression. Itoi I see, I see. Hanyu I want to create something that moves others, but I can’t lean on any aspect that results would have provided. So in that sense, “normal” is being moved by results. Itoi So you’re back to admiring normalcy without being able to achieve it. Hanyu Seems like it. (Laughs) Part 12: Thankful for games Spoiler Itoi You’ve sure been a busy person since you were a child. Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi Have you even had any spare moments? Hanyu Of course. That’s probably where I fit in video games. Itoi Ah, I see. Hanyu When I was a boy, any free time I had outside of studies and family obligations was for video games. Itoi I’m glad you had that. Hanyu Truly. There are so many things I learned through it. I think I learned from games that life is a story intertwined with many things, such as having the courage to step out, the importance of friends, and that not everything is what you think it is. Itoi Ah, I’m glad to hear that. I think kids these days learn all kinds of things—up to and including ethics—through the two pillars of video games and mangas. Hanyu Yes, yes. Itoi You could even say the same thing of me or the people who were my teachers. Children learn through play. Hanyu I agree. I especially think so because I’m a millennial and experienced pressure-free education, or the so-called yutori kyoiku in Japan. Itoi Ah, yutori kyoiku. Hanyu We had moral education and integrated studies built into our timetable, so maybe we’re influenced by that. Itoi I’m not familiar with those kinds of classes. Did you find them interesting? Hanyu I did. For example, we played Hyakunin-Isshu during class because my homeroom teacher liked it. Itoi Ah, that’s nice. Hanyu That’s how classes went, but we also had a lot of free time, so we probably spent more time discussing and talking with one another than past generations. Itoi Hmm, I really like that. I think more people should know that about you. Hanyu I’m definitely a millennial. (Laughs) So I do think the pressure-free education of Japan in our generation was a success, but we millennials have to think about how to learn from there. Itoi In the end, it is important for you to think about and decide things for yourself, rather than have someone else decide. Hanyu Exactly. It’s about what someone has to offer as a person, and how we as a society can make use of that potential. Itoi I’m learning so much from someone way younger than me today. Hanyu That’s not true. (Laughs) Itoi I’ve been amazed the whole time we’ve been talking. Although, looking around, I think everyone’s ready for us to be done. (Laughs) Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi I’m sorry it’s gotten so long. I really enjoyed talking with you. And I’m glad I made MOTHER 2. Hanyu Yes, truly. Itoi I’m really, really glad I had the opportunity to talk with you. We’ve never really heard about these things you talked about until today. Hanyu I should show that side of me more then. Itoi Yeah. Please meet with me again sometime. Hanyu Yes, of course. Itoi I’d like to talk about things even more trivial. Hanyu (Laughs) Itoi I also think there’s definitely something in your stories that will be useful to everyone in a tangible way, whether that be your talk about mirror neurons or how you improved your skills. Even for people who aren’t aiming for the Olympics. Hanyu Yes. I feel like many younger siblings have strong mirror neurons. Itoi I’m particularly interested in preschool education and mirror neurons lately. Hanyu Is that so? Itoi I think it’s a really important aspect for adults too. Well, I don’t know whether we’d talk about that next time, but we’ll end things here, now that it’s time and we’re asked to stop. Thank you so much. Hanyu Thank you. Itoi It was so interesting. I was taught so many things. Hanyu No, not at all. Itoi There were a lot of times I had to stay on my toes. Hanyu Ah, I’m happy. Itoi Do you want this Mr. Saturn plush? Hanyu Are you sure? Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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