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Alex_Trusova

2020 World Figure Skating Championships - Tickets and Discussion!

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I did not intend to attack Stojko with my post in anyway and I am sorry if anyone felt that it was my intention. I intended to denounce the fact that historically figure skaters that have been perceived as gay have been judged differently by juries and made fun off by some public and media. Same goes for many female skaters that did not fit the mold of the ice princess and paid the price for it by strangely not being able to medal even though they had strong programs executed perfectly.

While people are entitled to have their own opinions, making fun of someone's perceived sexuality or judging them is wrong and can be damaging to their careers, their families and their mental health. We do not know these athletes, we cannot judge their sexuality so easily. Yuzuru sounds girlish in English but very manly in Japanese, I don;t know if he is straight, gay or transgender, I don't care who he will chose to love and certainly I will not judge him either way. But taking example from him he does not criticize his opponents and their style of skating, instead he always finds positive ways to describe them. I don't think that Nathan Chen is as graceful as Yuzuru, but Yuzu always mentions that Nathan studied dance and that he wishes he would have done more of that for example. When Stojko talked about the need for more masculinity in male figure skating probably he did not realize he was putting down everyone that did not fit that mold but at that time (as far as I know over 10 years ago...) he was not the only one calling for less feathers and sparkles in male figure skating.

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3 hours ago, jinxxoo said:

He can admire Yuzu but it doesn't change the fact that he expressed toxic masculinity in an interview that put down the entire style of what he perceived as "effeminate skating". Unless he has public denounced such views which as far as I can tell, he never did. It's like someone saying they can't be racist because they have a POC friend. No. 

He expressed those views in 2009. He may have changed his mind since. I'm willing to give him the  benefit of the doubt, especially since, as far as I'm aware, he has never directly criticized or attacked Yuzu, or any other skater, personally. His opinion re: styles of skating is only one opinion among many and not one I share, but he's free to have said opinion and that's all I'm going to say about it. 

 

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32 minutes ago, zootown said:

he was not the only one calling for less feathers and sparkles in male figure skating.

To my mind, the problem is that anyone even cares about whether a skater's style is 'masculine' or 'feminine', IMO. Does the performance, including costume, express the music appropriately, and is the skating artistically and technically of high quality, including appropriate jump technique? Is the skater pushing themselves to perform excellently and as far as their abilities will allow? That's all that should matter. 

 

Aesthetically speaking, I don't attach value judgements to the 'masculinity' or 'femininity' of a program or a skater, but I do think it's a shame that young male skaters get it on both sides - they're either ridiculed by their peers for being in a 'girly' sport like figure-skating (and labelled 'gay' even when they may not be), or pressured into stereotypically 'masculine' performance choices on the ice. 

 

Either way is not good. A sport is a sport, an athlete is an athlete, other judgements should be left out of it. That's where I stand. 

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5 hours ago, Lunna said:

I've read somewhere that she's The Voice host

So that makes her a celebrity?  

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6 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

required French language content in Quebec. It's a thing. In fact I won't be surprised if Elvis tries his best in French too. 

 

Ici on est un pays bilingue, d'abord!

Isn't French required across all the provinces?

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20 minutes ago, barbara said:

Isn't French required across all the provinces?

well, that's complicated. The only officially and truly bilingual province is New Brunswick. But all Canadians are taught French in elementary school, oui. 

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1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

well, that's complicated. The only officially and truly bilingual province is New Brunswick. But all Canadians are taught French in elementary school, oui. 

um....no...only in high school...and my conversational French is less than that of a 3 yr old

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48 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

um....no...only in high school...and my conversational French is less than that of a 3 yr old

See? Complicated. :headdesk:

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3 hours ago, barbara said:

Isn't French required across all the provinces?

In Quebec we have the Charter of the French language (Bill 101) which states that French is the official language of the province and promotes the use of French over English

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52 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

See? Complicated. :headdesk:

I had French in high school (choice of French or German) and retain enough to possibly carry on a conversation with a 3 yr old @Dreamer. I'm kind of sorry to hear that not everyone is expected to learn French early on - but I'm sure not as disappointed at the Quebecois who thought French should be the official language of Canada. And when I went back to college (in my 40's) and had to get through collegiate level French, the person teaching it learned her French in Quebec so it was all very confusing.

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As a queer cis woman and a Canadian, I find Stojko's comments below disgusting and it makes absolutely NO difference to me if he's not attacked or has even been nice to Yuzu.  I’m afraid I don’t understand why that would be a reason to give him benefit of the doubt.   Stojko's views are homophobic _and_ misogynistic (the two usually go hand in hand) and if he isn't apologizing for his disgusting remarks from the interview in 2009 _and_ actively working to reduce the harm caused by those views, then he is just another of the many bigots, often white cis straight men, that normalize homophobia and misogyny in figure skating and hurt the sport by forcing kids and adults into an unrealistic gender binary while privileging anything deemed masculine. 

 

 

Anyway, let's not kid ourselves.  If Yuzu didn't have reliable and multiple quads, homophobes like Stojko and Yagudin would probably treat him like Y treats Jason Brown. 

 

Therefore, ISU choosing Stojko and yet wants to expand its fanbase?  Why is ISU picking someone who would obviously get an immediate negative response from younger fans (teens to 30s), the very pool of fans they need to attract to help keep this niche sport alive well into this century?  Did they know many of them are part of the LGBTQIAP+ umbrella?  Anyway I'm 50 and from an age standpoint am not part of that newer target audience, but I too feel this choosing him is a slap in the face to the queer community, young and old, and to any skater who doesn't follow narrow and toxic views of gender and sexuality or who doesn't see feminine folks (men, women, and non-binary people) and people who unironically make use of femininity as lesser beings.

 

Betsy is eloquent on this; please carefully read their entire thread and note the multiple definitions of "queering" they use.  Please note as well that Betsy is not undermining Yuzu's gender identity or making claims about his sexual orientation (whatever it is):

 

Purposeful, serious femininity: like Yuzu, a cis guy, becoming Juliet in R&J 2.0, and mixing femininity with masculinity in Otoñal and talking about doing that unashamedly as an homage to Johnny Weir's skating.  No need to apologize for or deny it.  It should be celebrated, especially in a sport in which reactionary views about gender and sexuality are common!  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

To my mind, the problem is that anyone even cares about whether a skater's style is 'masculine' or 'feminine', IMO. Does the performance, including costume, express the music appropriately, and is the skating artistically and technically of high quality, including appropriate jump technique? Is the skater pushing themselves to perform excellently and as far as their abilities will allow? That's all that should matter. 

 

Aesthetically speaking, I don't attach value judgements to the 'masculinity' or 'femininity' of a program or a skater, but I do think it's a shame that young male skaters get it on both sides - they're either ridiculed by their peers for being in a 'girly' sport like figure-skating (and labelled 'gay' even when they may not be), or pressured into stereotypically 'masculine' performance choices on the ice. 

 

Either way is not good. A sport is a sport, an athlete is an athlete, other judgements should be left out of it. That's where I stand. 

The same. The clue is that a really good skater (male, female, gay, straight, small, tall or anything  else) can take you for a journey which goes way beyond gender cathegories. Because performances are not about it (although some program concepts can play with it, why not, there's a place for many ideas in art). Great skater can make you feel sth abstract, purely emotional, like watching painting on ice. There's a huge range of varieties and sky is the limit. The same in ice dance or pairs - not everything has to be about portraying romantic stories between male and female character. I don't get how a proffesional like Stojko (but also many others) can use his authority to present such a narrow point of view. 

 

It's a pity that so many skaters, coaches and choreographers do an amazing job trying to take skating to some new places and explore new areas, but they bounce of the ceiling of limited competences and such a conservative mentality of those who judge them or proffessionaly comment their work. I guess, surpassing the limits comes with the price.

 

 

 

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And one thing to add: all this Stojko's "reasoning" sounds a bit like mourning of someone pushed into a corner who can't see a place for people like him in the sport. Meanwhile, I don't have such an impression that we're lacking of athletes in men field that represent this mentioned masculine type and certainly don't have a feeling that they are underscored. Frankly speaking, I feel opposite, it's still more risky for male skaters to present, how he called it, more "effiminate" style or for female athlete to present strong image, and in many cases they pay some price for that (scoring wise, but also - dealing with some publicly expressed opinions). 

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18 hours ago, monchan said:

Just don't get the point of inviting local celebs. Why???? To attract local audience? 

Maybe they can't afford international ones?

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2 minutes ago, vd_turnan said:

Maybe they can't afford international ones?

The whole award thing screams of "we want the glamour & exposure of the Oscars/Grammys/insert_favourite_big_award_show but we don't have the budget or the organization skills to pull it off" from beginning to end :tumblr_inline_mn41rcGFcT1qz4rgp:

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