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[2018] GP NHK Trophy - Men SP & FS

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Just now, Paskud said:

Fun fact: they called Zhou's UR. Tom Z's strategy doesn't work?

There was an interesting back and forth on that as well TES dropped from 42 to 32 then went up to 45 and ended up as 37

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7 minutes ago, jinxxoo said:

I need to go back and watch the 3A again. Was it that good? It got a lot of  +5 GOEs 

 

Yuzu's hard work is not rightfully awarded that's what frustrates me the most. But you know? Yuzu accepts that he has  different standard to everyone else because he had set them in the first place:13877886:

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And so it continues to be that it is not the actual system but the fact that judges do not understand the basic rules in how to use the system. There should be something in the computer program that blocks the abilty to input a 9.5  once a fall has been entered into the system. It would help prevent being *held up* by judges.... but of course that never happens, lol.

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@WinForPooh and @shanshani Thanks for the clarification on the GOE and SOV.

 

But, ouch. If even Jackie Wong is complaining about this... But, he is correct.

Uno's 3A has a difficult entry, yes. But the lean and the weak landing should have negated many +GOEs there. 

Also, I am guessing the rules (err guidelines) for +combo has changed as well? Cz Uno gets a full BV for the 4T there.

___

In another news, they didn't call Zhou's -3T, even though the UR on that is kinda more visible than at the 4Lz.

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2 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

There was an interesting back and forth on that as well TES dropped from 42 to 32 then went up to 45 and ended up as 37

 

Probably debating if it was a 4Lz << or a 3Lz :P

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So unfair!! Unfair to skaters that SHOULD be getting huge goe and pcs (cough), unfair to viewers for expecting us to swallow these bs scores, unfair to Shoma! Sure he gets the huge score but he can't improve or develop as a skater! Why would he? There's no incentive to, the judges are already telling him he's 100% perfect so why bother with the transitions and fixing technique and all that bs? Look at Medvedeva, judges telling her that there was no room for improvement at all so she got stuck in a rut artistically... and really who can blame them, judges obviously love it so why ever try to experiment or try new things. Incompetent judging really!

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3 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

Shoma has to grow up to become a man! Machiko sensei and Mihoko sensei has been babying him so much but it has to change at some point to let Shoma grow for goodness sake:59227c768286a__s: 

 

I think it's some people in the fed that babying him by giving him *that* boost. PCS boost is annoying but that egregious TES mark up? :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

(PS: slightly off tangent but if Shoma were to switch coaches to whom can he switch to? As much as one might argue that his coaching arrangement doesn't suit him anymore I struggle to think of a better coach for him? :think:)

 

8 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Do something else now or, I don't know, do POTO and actually wear a mask.

Shoma already has the musical sensibility, his vocabulary of movements is still limited though *coughmihokocough* . He needs to refine his degree of movement (ie. not every musical accent should be emphasized by a broad sweep of a whole arm). This, of course, is only one of many things he can improve on, but it could be the start.

 

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17 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

Welp. Just gonna think on the bright side to say that Yuzu is where he is because he never. ever. got any freebies in his skating save for very special and few and far between circumstances. Definitely not systemically, and it made him who he is. 

Yep, that wasn't the purpose but it ended up as very motivating for Yuzuru. The best way to shape someone's character is to make them work extra hard for what they have. If you give them freebies, they're just gonna end up lazy. Like Cinderella vs her sisters :D

I do like Shoma and it makes me a bit sad he's not motivated to improve, and why would he be, if he keeps getting such high scores no matter what?

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I wonder how the judges were going to score Shoma if he was clean. Maybe 110? or even more? 

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Just now, Pink Elephants said:

So unfair!! Unfair to skaters that SHOULD be getting huge goe and pcs (cough), unfair to viewers for expecting us to swallow these bs scores, unfair to Shoma! Sure he gets the huge score but he can't improve or develop as a skater! Why would he? There's no incentive to, the judges are already telling him he's 100% perfect so why bother with the transitions and fixing technique and all that bs? Look at Medvedeva, judges telling her that there was no room for improvement at all so she got stuck in a rut artistically... and really who can blame them, judges obviously love it so why ever try to experiment or try new things. It's just like 6,0 when skaters would have no idea which element they were supposed to improve on, except even worse since judges think there is nothing TO improve which is obviously not true... aghhhhhh

Interesting point about Med. I agree that the judges' overscoring her actually hurt her in the long run, because it killed any incentive for technical development, especially since (as we see now) improving jumps sometimes destabilizes them, hurting your chances of winning in the short term. Now when they've finally come to their senses, they've left her struggling.

I wonder why judges seem to collectively fall in love with certain skaters. Because it isn't just the Japanese judge being biased--with maybe the exception of Walter Toigo, the Italian judge, Shoma was overscored across the board. Judges, doesn't it make the sport more boring and unfun if certain skaters are held up over other skaters? Uncertainty is good for engagement--pre-ordained outcomes are not.

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10 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

There was an interesting back and forth on that as well TES dropped from 42 to 32 then went up to 45 and ended up as 37

 

It happens that they accidentally hit the wrong button, in this case 3Lz-3T which they can correct that's why TES went up to 45 but then they called it UR and went back to 37

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1 minute ago, shanshani said:


I wonder why judges seem to collectively fall in love with certain skaters. Because it isn't just the Japanese judge being biased--with maybe the exception of Walter Toigo, the Italian judge, Shoma was overscored across the board.

This is what I just can’t wrap my head around 

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4 minutes ago, Nutmeg said:

I do like Shoma and it makes me a bit sad he's not motivated to improve, and why would he be, if he keeps getting such high scores no matter what?

 

To be fair, I do think he has the motivation to improve otherwise he wouldn't be going to a jump coach every off season. And he knows he needs to improve if he wants to be able to have a chance to beat Yuzu. What hinders him (in my opinion) is his coaching team as well as the scoring.

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