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I'm an old school skating fan where the A-team skaters skipped 4CC (Michelle Kwan has 5 world titles, 2 Olympic medals, not a 4CC anything, and does anyone care?), so if Yuzu doesn't bother competing there again it wouldn't matter at all to me.  Not saying he doesn't want to win it if he can but I think he has his priorities straight considering his other results, and 2x Oly/2x World (or more) Champ will always precede his name when he's announced or mentioned. Just sayin'.

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40 minutes ago, Anki said:

Compared to that I don't understand why people place more value on Patrick's 3 consecutive World wins than Yuzu's 4 consecutive GPF wins - I understand World still has  higher legacy prestige than GPF due to its longer history, but in reality winning the GPF is no less harder than World - the pressure is the same for both -  in fact GPF is harder because you have to prove yourself over three events, such that the winner is less likely to be a "just happen to have a good day" type of winner. Hopefully after GPF has a longer history its prestige increases.

Its not only a history thing. Worlds is supposed to be (2nd) most imporant comp becuz most skaters around the world are given a chance to attend and supposed to do their best in a common ground. And they dont skate for themselves but represent their countries. Just imagine the scale, the pressure and responsibility! Like u cant say Oly is not as important as Gpf cuz its a one time event?

Honestly cuz its one time event, the pressure even builds up bigger, u have no chance to recover or to say smt like 'i do better next comp' like gp. 

 

I'm sure Yuzu consider Worlds over Gpf too, just like any athlete. I rmb he said smt along the line, Nats, Worlds, and Oly are most important events to him. 

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31 minutes ago, monchan said:

Its not only a history thing. Worlds is supposed to be (2nd) most imporant comp becuz most skaters around the world are given a chance to attend and supposed to do their best in a common ground. And they dont skate for themselves but represent their countries. Just imagine the scale, the pressure and responsibility! Like u cant say Oly is not as important as Gpf cuz its a one time event?

Honestly cuz its one time event, the pressure even builds up bigger, u have no chance to recover or to say smt like 'i do better next comp' like gp. 

 

I'm sure Yuzu consider Worlds over Gpf too, just like any athlete. I rmb he said smt along the line, Nats, Worlds, and Oly are most important events to him. 

He won Nationals 4 times so far, and with only Shoma as his rival, I think a few more national Golds will be fairly easy for him to get than Worlds and GPF medals. (Not underestimating Shoma, just stating the facts). 

 

How I see Yuzu, he doesn't seem to hunger for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Gold as much as he hungered for PC OGM. He never speaks about it openly, and I don't think he has secretly set his mind on it just yet.

 

Yuzu probably really wants Worlds or GPF or even 4CC Gold though, because they have less pressure to get and also, he can only dedicate a few years instead of another whole olympic cycle. 

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2 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

Yuzu will come and win at 4CC in my hometown in 2021 and I'll block anyone who suggests otherwise. :tumblr_inline_mzx8s4JRlX1r8msi5:

 

Where is 4CC 2021 being held?

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33 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

How I see Yuzu, he doesn't seem to hunger for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Gold as much as he hungered for PC OGM. He never speaks about it openly, and I don't think he has secretly set his mind on it just yet.

 

 

This is true. I think he kind of set double Olympic medal as his ultimate and only goal for essentially the last four years. I'm not surprised if he felt a bit a drift after achieving it. Like okay.... Now what? Type feeling. So he's got 4A as his goal now. But who knows? He is only 6 months past his historic achievement, he has lots of time to more new goals, which may or may not including a even more historic third Oly gold! 

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5 minutes ago, OonsieHui said:

 

This is true. I think he kind of set double Olympic medal as his ultimate and only goal for essentially the last four years. I'm not surprised if he felt a bit a drift after achieving it. Like okay.... Now what? Type feeling. So he's got 4A as his goal now. But who knows? He is only 6 months past his historic achievement, he has lots of time to more new goals, which may or may not including a even more historic third Oly gold! 

 

 

Yes he will only be 27 if he goes for 3rd OGM, and if he gets it, no one can touch his legacy, for maybe even a hundred years, until it is broken again. 

While I know that Figure Skating is a sport for young people, the new IJS system will favor Yuzu even at 27. And if he has 4Lz by then, he is not at a disadvantage technically. 

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32 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

Where is 4CC 2021 being held?

 

Fight to the death between Melbourne and Taipei. Sorry, my Taiwanese friends, but I need this and I will stop at nothing to get it. :hachimaki:

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4 hours ago, kelly said:

Fear not, ACI is the time for first pancakes :pancake:

 

And the first competition he gets announced - in front of his competition and the fans - as two time Olympics champion.  That will be a moment and a half....:knc_yuzu2:

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I'm not sure how the topic ended up as a discussion of which titles matter more and comparing skaters based on that... I'm pretty sure very few people would argue that Yuzu is the most successful skater of this generation. And even Javi has said that a perfectly clean Yuzu cannot be defeated at this point in time, and he himself surely can't. However, he also knew that if Yuzu wasn't perfect, which was entirely likely, given his difficult content, if he himself did his best, there was a chance to win ahead of him. Which he did, most times the opportunity came. I'm also sure Yuzu would be the last to belittle those victories, because, at the end of the day, the gold medal goes to whoever achieved the highest scores over the SP and FP. Not the one who is known to be the better skater or whatever.

 

Aside from that, though, as we discussed earlier, Javi and Yuzu were likely essential to each other's success. Yuzu went to Toronto because he needed a good image of successful quads to land his and I don't know if there was anyone with a better 4S at that time. Would he have stabilized it even without Javi? Possibly, but much, much slower. I believe one of the options he was given was actually the place Patrick trained in? Does anyone think Patrick would have let Yuzu 'steal' any technique from him? He'd probably make sure they'd never share the ice and Yuzu would still have to manage on his own. And of course, then there's Brian insistence on skating skills, without which who knows if Yuzu would have ever reached the PCS scores he gets now.

 

So, personally, rather than going 'that skater is better, no that skater is better, but that skater has consecutive worlds, but that skater has oly golds etc.etc.', I prefer saying that Yuzu and Javi, together with their TCC team of coaches and choreographers, have dominated a full Olympic cycle - and then some - with 4 GPF Golds, 2 GPF Silvers, 4 Worlds Golds, 2 Worlds Silvers, 1 Worlds Bronze, 6 European Golds, 2 4CC Silvers, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Olympic Bronze and a total of 12 National Titles. (Though to be fair, a few of Javi 's were before he went to Brian) And I might have forgotten some. But those, IMO, are all titles they each played a role in, some bigger, some smaller, but IMO, all were essential to obtaining them.

 

As for Beijing, Yuzu knows better than to hunger for Gold there. Age has little to do with it, the problem is his injuries and whether they affect him long term or not. (Actually there is an interview from 2012 where Yuzu said he has had an avulsion fracture on his ankle since he was young, but he's been taking care of it. However, since then he's sprained and tortured that ankle lots of times, not to mention the knees... He may be young, but multiple injuries in the same places are unlikely not to have long term effects.) He gunned for Pyeongchang because he had unfinished business since Sochi, and took tremendous risks for it. There's little point in doing the same for Beijing. He's paid his dues - or what he felt were his dues - and now is just going to take it one step at a time, which makes the most sense. Achieving the 4A is possibly the last great risk he'll take in his FS career. Everything else will come on a day by day, season by season basis. If he still feels good and competitive, he'll continue. If not, not. And IMO, that's the best attitude to have, much better than 'he should go to Beijing and truly make history'.

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He is "only" being introduced as "Two time Olympic champion" during ice shows now, so it is not like he needs another title. :tumblr_inline_mqt4grU8ua1qz4rgp:

But he can always try to get gold at Skate Canada and 4CC to round up those silvers nicely. 

 

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1 hour ago, quadaxelwin said:

He won Nationals 4 times so far, and with only Shoma as his rival, I think a few more national Golds will be fairly easy for him to get than Worlds and GPF medals. (Not underestimating Shoma, just stating the facts). 

 

How I see Yuzu, he doesn't seem to hunger for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Gold as much as he hungered for PC OGM. He never speaks about it openly, and I don't think he has secretly set his mind on it just yet.

 

Yuzu probably really wants Worlds or GPF or even 4CC Gold though, because they have less pressure to get and also, he can only dedicate a few years instead of another whole olympic cycle. 

Nats title is always piece of cake for yuzu even when he didnt do well so its not necessarily important for his competitive spirit. Its important for him as a Japanese thou, considering his love for his country and after all, normal Jpn might not know wth is grand prix or 4cc. 

 

Ofc as pro athletes, worlds, 4cc, gpf are where to get true recognition in the field and he has to pay good effort to get result. Worlds and oly are important to him both as an athlete and a Jpn. 

 

I dont care 4cc anymore at this point, oly is far off, and nats is given (i dont want to imagine how kuyashii he is if lost in Nats, like super pissed? There goes his domestic reputation, which is kinda a shame for a jpn. Losing is unlikely thou). I just keep my sole focus on worlds and gpf. 

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1 hour ago, monchan said:

Its not only a history thing. Worlds is supposed to be (2nd) most imporant comp becuz most skaters around the world are given a chance to attend and supposed to do their best in a common ground. And they dont skate for themselves but represent their countries. Just imagine the scale, the pressure and responsibility! Like u cant say Oly is not as important as Gpf cuz its a one time event?

Honestly cuz its one time event, the pressure even builds up bigger, u have no chance to recover or to say smt like 'i do better next comp' like gp. 

 

I'm sure Yuzu consider Worlds over Gpf too, just like any athlete. I rmb he said smt along the line, Nats, Worlds, and Oly are most important events to him. 

 

Like I can understand Olympic being more important because it only occurs every 4 years (anything that is rarer is more valuable) and is watched by the whole world and not just skating fans. The stake of the nation's pride is much more higher than any other events. There are country's officials whose job depends on medal count !

 

Whereas the regularity of Worlds and GPF is the same (if you miss one year, can always try next year), the audience is the same, skaters are representing their country in both, so the only reason I can see one being regarded as much more important than the other is just because of historical prestige reasons.  Just saying because when people compare skaters achievement, GPF is never really considered despite the grueling process required to actually win this, so its kinda disheartening for the skater..

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I'm not sure how the topic ended up as a discussion of which titles matter more and comparing skaters based on that... I'm pretty sure very few people would argue that Yuzu is the most successful skater of this generation. And even Javi has said that a perfectly clean Yuzu cannot be defeated at this point in time, and he himself surely can't. However, he also knew that if Yuzu wasn't perfect, which was entirely likely, given his difficult content, if he himself did his best, there was a chance to win ahead of him. Which he did, most times the opportunity came. I'm also sure Yuzu would be the last to belittle those victories, because, at the end of the day, the gold medal goes to whoever achieved the highest scores over the SP and FP. Not the one who is known to be the better skater or whatever.

 

Aside from that, though, as we discussed earlier, Javi and Yuzu were likely essential to each other's success. Yuzu went to Toronto because he needed a good image of successful quads to land his and I don't know if there was anyone with a better 4S at that time. Would he have stabilized it even without Javi? Possibly, but much, much slower. I believe one of the options he was given was actually the place Patrick trained in? Does anyone think Patrick would have let Yuzu 'steal' any technique from him? He'd probably make sure they'd never share the ice and Yuzu would still have to manage on his own. And of course, then there's Brian insistence on skating skills, without which who knows if Yuzu would have ever reached the PCS scores he gets now.

 

So, personally, rather than going 'that skater is better, no that skater is better, but that skater has consecutive worlds, but that skater has oly golds etc.etc.', I prefer saying that Yuzu and Javi, together with their TCC team of coaches and choreographers, have dominated a full Olympic cycle - and then some - with 4 GPF Golds, 2 GPF Silvers, 4 Worlds Golds, 2 Worlds Silvers, 1 Worlds Bronze, 6 European Golds, 2 4CC Silvers, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Olympic Bronze and a total of 12 National Titles. (Though to be fair, a few of Javi 's were before he went to Brian) And I might have forgotten some. But those, IMO, are all titles they each played a role in, some bigger, some smaller, but IMO, all were essential to obtaining them.

 

As for Beijing, Yuzu knows better than to hunger for Gold there. Age has little to do with it, the problem is his injuries and whether they affect him long term or not. (Actually there is an interview from 2012 where Yuzu said he has had an avulsion fracture on his ankle since he was young, but he's been taking care of it. However, since then he's sprained and tortured that ankle lots of times, not to mention the knees... He may be young, but multiple injuries in the same places are unlikely not to have long term effects.) He gunned for Pyeongchang because he had unfinished business since Sochi, and took tremendous risks for it. There's little point in doing the same for Beijing. He's paid his dues - or what he felt were his dues - and now is just going to take it one step at a time, which makes the most sense. Achieving the 4A is possibly the last great risk he'll take in his FS career. Everything else will come on a day by day, season by season basis. If he still feels good and competitive, he'll continue. If not, not. And IMO, that's the best attitude to have, much better than 'he should go to Beijing and truly make history'.

 

 

I felt sad reading the last part. The thought of Yuzu having to live with a sore ankle worries me. I'm sure he wants to do alot of ice shows after he retires, so maybe he might retire around 25~26, so he can skill skate afterwards.

 

I also think Yuzu will find it hard to resist the pressure from Japan to go to Beijing and win that 3rd title. He deserves to be completely free from it after all he's givin back to his country, but people get greedy for more. 

 

Yuzu can always go the artistic route where he skates just the team event in Beijing, and not go for gold in the singles like Plushenko. He has 2 OGMs. He doesn't really need a 3rd one to prove himself *although if he did win 3 OGMs, he would be invincible career wise. 

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Aren't there several potential senior male skater for Japan? Even if they are still in junior right now, the notion that Japan will still need to depend on Yuzu and Shoma for 2022 is rather bizarre. 

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