General Yuzuru Chat

[Salior]

5 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

A lot of people do pre-rotate the axel but it's generally by less than a 1/4 as opposed to toe jumps, where a lot of skaters pre-rotate up to 180 degrees. Pre-rotating generally results in a smaller jump.  People seem to be able to sort of spin into the jump off the toe so I'm guessing they're relying on momentum+cheat to complete the rotations but since they're not vaulting into the jump, it can't get the height.  I can't explain the sciency aspect of it but I have noticed that there's a lot less pre-rotation on the axel in general and I think that's why skaters like Shoma have had so much more difficulty with the axel than the "quads".  

 

here's my attempt lol. From making this I can see why heavily prerotated jumps are often unstable, and why timing of takeoff is so important in edge jumps. Also makes prerotated jumps much smaller as forward velocity is lost to create the "rotation" on ice, basically less air time. 

 

In this illustration, you can see it's still possible to travel forward with 180 PR on non axel takeoffs, but not possible to travel forward with 180 PR on axel takeoffs. Matches with what Chib said I guess.

 

 

 

Hope I took all the forces into account. Glad I could apply what I learned in school though lol. 

[Tee]

1 hour ago, makebelieveup said:

Since we're on this topic of commentary, I just want to say I wish commentators can praise/comment more on the program components in skaters' programs. In the past when I started watching figure skating because of Yuzu, I loved watching his programs with commentaries especially from B.ESP, CBC, and NBC because they would literally praise Yuzu to the high heavens when he skated clean. But then over time, I've realized there's more to his skating than just those praises. I still like watching with commentary sometimes because it's nice to have others praise him when he skates well. But I also began to realize how sometimes commentary can take away the beauty of his skating when they're being redundant. Also, these mere praises often surround his technical excellence or world records/titles. I wish they can talk more about what makes Yuzu's programs/japanese ladies' so great other than just commenting on his jumps when he executed them flawlessly. Yes, they sometimes talk about how he's a total package but like explain it, go in depth on it. Talk about the speed or positions of their spins, talk about the choreo/composition, the transitions, their turns, their footworks, their interpretation of the music/facial expression, their skating skills, their ice coverage...I wish they'd talk more about this so viewers can learn. Because essentially, I find PCs and TES are codependent in making a program great and balance. That's why we love commentators like Charlie White and Max/Angelo who pretty much dissect the program more accurately and show true appreciation for what the skaters do on the ice. I learn way more over a short span of time listening to their analyses than from all the vague superlatives other commentators say like "beautiful" "the best skater ever". Yes, those are nice to hear when referring to Yuzu as an artist, but talk more about his program itself when he's skating to it. 

 

Especially for newer fans it’s easier to get into the sport faster when it’s understood. I watched every commentary available of Olympic Chopin only to realise after the subbed video of Max and Angelo that he lost a level on his last spin and that’s why he didn’t get a higher score

[OonsieHui]

1 hour ago, Salior said:

 

here's my attempt lol. From making this I can see why heavily prerotated jumps are often unstable, and why timing of takeoff is so important in edge jumps. Also makes prerotated jumps much smaller as forward velocity is lost to create the "rotation" on ice, basically less air time. 

 

In this theory it's still possible to travel forward with 180 PR on non axel takeoffs, but not possible to travel forward with 180 PR on axel takeoffs. Matches with what Chib said I guess.

 

 

 

Might have something that I forgot to take into account, haven't touched Physics for 4 years. Glad I could apply what I learned in school though lol. 

 

Oh wow. That looks complicated. I really just understood it in a much simpler way.

 

Since the axel is jumped facing forward, if a skater is pre-rotated by 180° he would be facing the other way, and would no longer be facing forward, but facing backwards instead, and hence it wouldn't even be an axel. 

[axelsandwich]

2 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

Since we're on this topic of commentary, I just want to say I wish commentators can praise/comment more on the program components in skaters' programs. In the past when I started watching figure skating because of Yuzu, I loved watching his programs with commentaries especially from B.ESP, CBC, and NBC because they would literally praise Yuzu to the high heavens when he skated clean. But then over time, I've realized there's more to his skating than just those praises. I still like watching with commentary sometimes because it's nice to have others praise him when he skates well. But I also began to realize how sometimes commentary can take away the beauty of his skating when they're being redundant. Also, these mere praises often surround his technical excellence or world records/titles. I wish they can talk more about what makes Yuzu's programs/japanese ladies' so great other than just commenting on his jumps when he executed them flawlessly. Yes, they sometimes talk about how he's a total package but like explain it, go in depth on it. Talk about the speed or positions of their spins, talk about the choreo/composition, the transitions, their turns, their footworks, their interpretation of the music/facial expression, their skating skills, their ice coverage...I wish they'd talk more about this so viewers can learn. Because essentially, I find PCs and TES are codependent in making a program great and balance. That's why we love commentators like Charlie White and Max/Angelo who pretty much dissect the program more accurately and show true appreciation for what the skaters do on the ice. I learn way more over a short span of time listening to their analyses than from all the vague superlatives other commentators say like "beautiful" "the best skater ever". Yes, those are nice to hear when referring to Yuzu as an artist, but talk more about his program itself when he's skating to it. 

A really really acute and salient point about commentary - I think being able to go in depth by naming specific transitions or elements also reflects a deeper technical understanding of the sport and I definitely prefer it to yet another comment about the Pooh rain - which incidentally never offers much new beyond 'oh wow that's a lot of Poohs' like...yes, very insightful........   

 

You may also enjoy Max and Angelo's podcast series - generously translated by fans - where they really go in depth about skating technicals and discuss a bunch of topics. I don't take their word as absolute law but I appreciate that they 'show their working out', so to speak, so that they are transparent about how they got to their conclusions and leave room for people to challenge or contradict them. 

[axelsandwich]

2 hours ago, LadyLou said:

re: T*L

under spoiler since discussion moved on

  Hide contents

 

As I'm a petty fanyu, I prefer not giving them my clicks. If there is anything outrageous or interesting, it will usually leak to twitter anyway so I'll just roll my eyes at their nonsense or side-eye them...

Probably my laziness and general weariness to hone my english listening skills through podcasts(*) have protected me form falling their prey when I was learning I dived on everything written, I found forums and then blogs and only watched a few T*L interviews bacause Yuzu

It's a pity tho, they did some very nice interviews with TCC coaches and choreographers..I remember DW, Tracy...but, me being a petty fanyu, since when I learned that the T*L team wasn't nice at all, I click once, I pause, I download and I don't need to give them views when I want to rewatch the content I'm interested in (like interviews to TCC team).

I find particularly bad that T*L use Yuzuru's name and thumbnails to promote their videos. It's shameless exploitation of both Yuzuru and his fandom and it makes me aven a pettier towards them

Also, to people who need weekly recaps on FS, there are the InTheLoop weekly podcasts. Sure, there are still lots of opinions and one can agree or disagree, but it's fun (and no mean comments). I also like that there are so many voices

 

*LOL I even went for english transcripts of podcasts in my own language, it's just much less time consuming and you can more easily find what you're searching for... so thank you InTheLoop crew for the transcripts  @kaerb

 

 

 

Aw thank you! I'm glad the transcripts help, we really work hard on them and transcribe from scratch but I personally think it pays off because I also prefer reading to listening most days. I'm hoping that we can cover some wider, themed topics once competition wraps up too. We also have a more general news roundup in case anyone has trouble keeping up with the FS world (it's mostly for me because...I have trouble keeping up with the FS world)

[Salior]

1 hour ago, OonsieHui said:

 

Oh wow. That looks complicated. I really just understood it in a much simpler way.

 

Since the axel is jumped facing forward, if a skater is pre-rotated by 180° he would be facing the other way, and would no longer be facing forward, but facing backwards instead, and hence it wouldn't even be an axel. 

 

That is true! Unfortunately that logic evaded some people (including me rip). So I tried to visualise it in terms of forces and momentum haha. Physics do not lie :p

[MeowZu]

Here's some yummy Zu for good vibes purposes

 

 

 

[Forcefield]

A lot of new fans to figure skating have said this, "I watched TSL" or "I watched Koola King" before they joined the larger fandom and learned how toxic both youtubers are. And that's the thing, even though youtube is a dying platform it is still one of strongest outlets for international fans and one of the first steps when getting into figure skating. Heck, even I searched up youtube videos first when I got hooked. Their channels unfortunately reach the newer or younger generation first.

[4Nessie]

The discussion is over, but I need to say one other thing.

 

Spoiler

Calling Shoma "the greatest performer" is possible, yes. Some people can see him as such. And it is about preferences. And I need to compare. Shoma has great performing ability, but his performance "goes OUT". It is the same with many other skaters. Not a bad thing of course. Audience needs that to connect to the program. (Still, I think Javier was even greater.)

What I love and admire about Yuzu (among many other things) is, that his performance "goes IN". He invites all of us into his own world. That is rare and beautiful and that is, what I call "the greatest performer".

 

[rockstaryuzu]

3 hours ago, MeowZu said:

Here's some yummy Zu for good vibes purposes

 

 

 

Okay that was just unfair ...such beauty to hit me unawares...

[rockstaryuzu]

9 hours ago, Vulnavia said:

In the comments of the latest TSL video, someone asked them about the fact that they're profiting off of the likenesses of skaters with these new products, and one of the things that they said in their reply was that they've given the skaters a lot of publicity over the years and the profits from this merch will help them to keep creating content that promotes skaters. I was literally  and then  at the suggestion that skaters like Yuzu or Tessa & Scott are in need of or benefiting from TSL's 'publicity' in any way.

I know this discussion's done, but: 

Spoiler

 

[Bilge]

 

[LeadenMyr]

24 minutes ago, Bilge said:

 

[enno0287]

2 hours ago, Forcefield said:

A lot of new fans to figure skating have said this, "I watched TSL" or "I watched Koola King" before they joined the larger fandom and learned how toxic both youtubers are. And that's the thing, even though youtube is a dying platform it is still one of strongest outlets for international fans and one of the first steps when getting into figure skating. Heck, even I searched up youtube videos first when I got hooked. Their channels unfortunately reach the newer or younger generation first.

It is true that when new skating fans watched Koola before they join the larger fandom, they'd have this stigma towards some specific skaters, but in my opinion, as long as fans can filter information then TSL or Koola is okay. I like watching Koola's videos because I like to know the details on jump techniques. I also follow chiburahakai and mirakyun on twitter and I learn a lot about skating technique from them. 

 

1 hour ago, 4Nessie said:

The discussion is over, but I need to say one other thing.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Calling Shoma "the greatest performer" is possible, yes. Some people can see him as such. And it is about preferences. And I need to compare. Shoma has great performing ability, but his performance "goes OUT". It is the same with many other skaters. Not a bad thing of course. Audience needs that to connect to the program. (Still, I think Javier was even greater.)

What I love and admire about Yuzu (among many other things) is, that his performance "goes IN". He invites all of us into his own world. That is rare and beautiful and that is, what I call "the greatest performer".

 

I think if we talk about performance that "GOES OUT", then I'd pick Daisuke over literally everyone, tho. 

[4Nessie]

3 minutes ago, enno0287 said:

I think if we talk about performance that "GOES OUT", then I'd pick Daisuke over literally everyone, tho. 

 

That's probably true. I somehow forgot he is skating again.