General Yuzuru Chat

[WinForPooh]

Just now, SparkleSalad said:

 

I'll go way OT if I start gushing about Waka but she's my lady Yuzu and the one and only Gypsy Dancer. She's much more mature than he was at her age but they're both so gosh darn dynamic, I can't help but feel a connection, too. When will Waka land 4A poll?

 

Axel-off, between Yuzu and Waka! YES!  

[4Nessie]

19 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I'll go way OT if I start gushing about Waka but she's my lady Yuzu and the one and only Gypsy Dancer. She's much more mature than he was at her age but they're both so gosh darn dynamic, I can't help but feel a connection, too. When will Waka land 4A poll?

 

Confirmed! Gypsy Wakaba was almost as good as Gypsy Yuzu! 

[Anzi]

29 minutes ago, 4Nessie said:

 

I agree to some extend. But my opinion on music choices is a bit different maybe. I think that a skater should choose his music for some reason. To show something through that music. If you choose Irish music, than you should show something that is specific for it, otherwise you could choose anything and skate the same program to it. That's the main problem imo. Many skaters choose music that they like for some reason, but they are not able to express it fully.

Agree, at least you need build some connection to the music you choose so you have chance to excercise your own agency in creating and performing the program.

[Sombreuil]

Don’t you think they can enjoy the music in isolation from the culture that produced it and perhaps take from it something that is different?  I get fed up with the Piaf Vie en Rose - I’d like someone with a bit of vim to use Grace Jones version which is radically different - but it’s the same basic music.

[4Nessie]

7 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

Don’t you think they can enjoy the music in isolation from the culture that produced it and perhaps take from it something that is different?  I get fed up with the Piaf Vie en Rose - I’d like someone with a bit of vim to use Grace Jones version which is radically different - but it’s the same basic music.

 

I don't want to say it's required to always express some 'typical' parts that show off that culture. It is not needed. But if you don't show it, you need to give the audience something else. Not only a generic skating. It can be done, surely. But it is not very common. If you have some interesting links, I am opened to suggestions. I haven't been following FS so thoroughly.

 

On the other hand, I am probably very much influenced by Yuzu's skating, because I haven't seen many skaters that would emit such emotions in each program. I somehow got used to it and now it's a bit hard to watch other skaters and accept that they skate with less emotions or none at all.

[GoldMedalist]

4 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

Don’t you think they can enjoy the music in isolation from the culture that produced it and perhaps take from it something that is different?  I get fed up with the Piaf Vie en Rose - I’d like someone with a bit of vim to use Grace Jones version which is radically different - but it’s the same basic music.

 

Some people say no- or at least certain people are not allowed to do it     It was perfectly fine that Rika Hongo skated to Riverdance, but god forbid Davis/White skate to Bollywood.  So much for "equality" ... People just look for problems everywhere

[sweetwater]

I think to understand/respect the music's cultural background, to incorporate something typical of the culture into the choreography/costume, and to express the music well with your skating are three different things especially when you are a singles skater. For example, sometimes skaters move as if they are holding his partner when skating to tango but that is not essential to express the music itself nor showing respect to the music, isn't it? (If he is portraying someone dancing with his partner or someone imagining that he is dancing with his partner, such movement might be essential to convey the story)

Also, you don't need to be born and raised in the specific culture to express the music. I'm Japanese, so if I take programs using Japanese music for example, Shae-Lynn understood the story of Seimei and did a great job conveying it through her choreography incorporating many movements inspired by Japanese culture. Tom Dickson did the same when he choreographed Sayuri for Satoko. 

Michal Březina's Kodou SP choreographed by Pasquale Camerlengo was also really cool. The movements in the program didn't specifically look Japanese, but they suited the music very well. Especially the Stsq was so fun to watch and it expressed the exciting music very well.

If the skater is good and has a strong reason to skate to the music and a good choreographer to work with, he/she can pull off anything. I think skater's skills and motivation is more important than his/her cultural/ethnic background.

[Sammie]

There is a lot of talk in the media about culture appropriation and culture appreciation lately. To me, as long as the skater respects the culture and doesn't make it into some kind of joke/mocking program, then I’m okay with it. 

 

[salty]

Yeah I think a good explanation as to why it feels more “cringey” when Western or NA skaters do bollywood is because generally people of Indian descent are systematically oppressed in the west and therefore even if you’re doing the right researcg and putting in responsible work for the program it’s easy to look like you’re making fun of the culture.

I think Indian culture isn’t as mainstream in the west as much as like Irish culture is so that may be one explanation as to why we get excited when Asian skaters skate to Riverdance and why we cringe when white skaters skate to folk dances from other races

[yuzuangel]

2 hours ago, GoldMedalist said:

It was perfectly fine that Rika Hongo skated to Riverdance

well, she *is* half british

not that i'm disagreeing, but that's not a good example

[WinForPooh]

2 hours ago, GoldMedalist said:

 

Some people say no- or at least certain people are not allowed to do it     It was perfectly fine that Rika Hongo skated to Riverdance, but god forbid Davis/White skate to Bollywood.  So much for "equality" ... People just look for problems everywhere

 

Politics are not to be discussed on the forum, and unless you would like to ask mods and admins to change that policy and start one thread for politics, including identity politics, could you please not bring this thinly-veiled reverse racism-ish comments to Planet Hanyu? 

 

There are plenty of people here from non-American and non-European countries who could carry this particular thread on (and explain exactly why the things you compared are not the same in essence - would you like me, an Indian who has lived in Europe, to do that?) if you truly wish to pursue it, but if you do not wish to pursue it and do not wish to start a discussion after talking to mods and admins, if they feel inclined to change the rules for you, then please do stop. If the rules of the forum will not be changed to indulge your discussion, then also, please respect that, as well. 

[yuzuangel]

19 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

 

Politics are not to be discussed on the forum, and unless you would like to ask mods and admins to change that policy and start one thread for politics, including identity politics, could you please not bring this thinly-veiled reverse racism-ish comments to Planet Hanyu? 

 

There are plenty of people here from non-American and non-European countries who could carry this particular thread on (and explain exactly why the things you compared are not the same in essence - would you like me, an Indian who has lived in Europe, to do that?) if you truly wish to pursue it, but if you do not wish to pursue it and do not wish to start a discussion after talking to mods and admins, if they feel inclined to change the rules for you, then please do stop. If the rules of the forum will not be changed to indulge your discussion, then also, please respect that, as well. 

Agree, I think that it's okay to discuss whether or not a skater fully expresses or appreciates the music (and the culture that music represents) since they choose to skate to that music, but this is probably not the place to make fun of other people's views on cultural and social issues. 

[WinForPooh]

Last OT about this from me though - I think Davis/White did spend time with Bollywood choreographers who did work with them for that programme, and Bollywood isn't exactly high culture. I cringe purely because it feels very weird to see Bollywood in figure skating and most of that industry doesn't appeal to me anyway. They're probably an example of how it's possible to collaborate with respect. 

[yuzuangel]

6 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Last OT about this from me though - I think Davis/White did spend time with Bollywood choreographers who did work with them for that programme, and Bollywood isn't exactly high culture. I cringe purely because it feels very weird to see Bollywood in figure skating and most of that industry doesn't appeal to me anyway. They're probably an example of how it's possible to collaborate with respect. 

I liked that program a lot, even though I was surprised they brought it to the Olympics because of (1) how controversial they knew it would be, and (2) how fast it could enter cringe territory if they weren't careful. On the whole, though, I think they skirted that line pretty well and it was a fun program. Of course, the potential cringe of their program was miles overshadowed by Domnina/Shabalin's...

 

Last OT: I think the comparison between Davis/White's Bollywood and Domnina/Shabalin's "aboriginal dance" is a good once for this topic...one of them consulted with actual Bollywood choreographers and studied real Bollywood dance, the other did something that had no semblance to actual Australian aboriginal dance yet called it that to get away with the fact that they couldn't do a "real" original dance...

[Anzi]

I think the point is not whether you choose the music from your own cultural background, but rather whether you personally have certain connection with the music per se. The music resonates with you in certain way, and in turn you bring out that affection and understanding. When you have that feeling you would be released from the mechanic enactment abided to principal, internalizing the rhythm and melody in your body movement. The music as outside thing becomes one with you. 

 

That's the idea of Zen philosophy.