2018/19 Coaching changes

[Yatagarasu]

We thought a separate thread for the discussion seems prudent. 

 

There's after all a lot to talk about, not just in re to one skater but also it frees up the other thread(s) a bit 

[cinemacoconut]

Can I just mention here that I find it strange other skater fans are obsessed with sending their skaters to TCC? I'm not talking about Boyang.

 

I am not talking about Wakaba.

 

But as many of you who lurk on Golden Skate will know the rumor by now

 

******* fans are keep on piling rumors that their skater is moving to TCC using social media speculations even when the skater and their current coach themselves denied coaching changes. 

 

Like I know Orser is an amazing coach probably the most well rounded coach artistically and technically, but I find it annoying how other skating fans are so feverent upon making up speculations that their skater is coming to TCC. I wish it stopped but it is only getting worse. 

[LucyH]

29 minutes ago, cinemacoconut said:

Can I just mention here that I find it strange other skater fans are obsessed with sending their skaters to TCC? I'm not talking about Boyang.

 

I am not talking about Wakaba.

 

But as many of you who lurk on Golden Skate will know the rumor by now

 

******* fans are keep on piling rumors that their skater is moving to TCC using social media speculations even when the skater and their current coach themselves denied coaching changes. 

 

Like I know Orser is an amazing coach probably the most well rounded coach artistically and technically, but I find it annoying how other skating fans are so feverent upon making up speculations that their skater is coming to TCC. I wish it stopped but it is only getting worse. 

Yeah there were many pages devoted to this on GS

[Starfishsea]

What do hanyu fans think about Zhenya is coming to TCC rumors? It is all over the place at Golden Skate at the moment. I personally don't like the rumors because TCC is already crowded with Boyang and Corad as new members

[OonsieHui]

Well obviously we don't know for sure, but I highly doubt TCC would take on not just one new top skater, but two. 

[ralucutzagy]

It was a gossip after the Olys that Zhenya wants to leave Eteri's group ... but that was it, just a gossip, somebody from her team, Daniil Gleichengauz, IIRC, denied the rumor, shortly after.

[Katt]

Keep in mind that so far none of TCC rumor come true.  Also Boyang working with Brian (aka not competely moving to TCC) isn't confirm either 

[Xen]

45 minutes ago, Starfishsea said:

What do hanyu fans think about Zhenya is coming to TCC rumors? It is all over the place at Golden Skate at the moment. I personally don't like the rumors because TCC is already crowded with Boyang and Corad as new members

Well if that rumor were a stock, I'd not invest in it. =)

So far the only rumor that's been somewhat backed up by the skater's fed, is the one of Boyang negotiating to go to TCC, but there are a lot of things that have yet to be clarified-such as duration of training, how the coaching situation goes (and BOrser will ask for permission with his other skaters), and I almost forgot that getting visas to Canada is a nightmare.

 

All other rumors have been either FS community (wakaba) or fanmade (Evegnia). And I'm skeptical of RusFed allowing its skaters to train overseas (can someone familiar with RusFed policies clarify?). So I'd seriously seriously doubt it.

[Starfishsea]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well if that rumor were a stock, I'd not invest in it. =)

So far the only rumor that's been somewhat backed up by the skater's fed, is the one of Boyang negotiating to go to TCC, but there are a lot of things that have yet to be clarified-such as duration of training, how the coaching situation goes (and BOrser will ask for permission with his other skaters), and I almost forgot that getting visas to Canada is a nightmare.

 

All other rumors have been either FS community (wakaba) or fanmade (Evegnia). And I'm skeptical of RusFed allowing its skaters to train overseas (can someone familiar with RusFed policies clarify?). So I'd seriously seriously doubt it.

 

On japanese forum skating fans put up cases where more than 10 russian skaters who trained overseas in the past. 

 

But that is not the point. I use Golden Skate app and so I have to see all those crazy rumors on my newsfeed even on Alina Zagitova's fanfest. Why Zhenya fans are sooo obsessed with sending her to TCC after the instagram deletion drama happened, I have no idea. I do wish the rumor was proved wrong anytime soon. I love Zhenya but I prefer TCC rink less crowded with Yuzu now practicing 4A soon. 

[Xen]

9 minutes ago, Starfishsea said:

 

On japanese forum skating fans put up cases where more than 10 russian skaters who trained overseas in the past. 

 

But that is not the point. I use Golden Skate app and so I have to see all those crazy rumors on my newsfeed even on Alina Zagitova's fanfest. Why Zhenya fans are sooo obsessed with sending her to TCC after the instagram deletion drama happened, I have no idea. I do wish the rumor was proved wrong anytime soon. I love Zhenya but I prefer TCC rink less crowded with Yuzu now practicing 4A soon. 

The rumors of Zhenya moving from Eteri seems to be popping up once every month since PyeongChang.  And "X skater moving to TCC" seems to be flavor of the month. People tend to forget that not all coaches you love fit with the skater you love. Hmm...personally, if she were still coaching, I'd rather Zhenya move to Tarasova instead of Orser-just a personal feeling that Tarasova might fit her more than even Orser.

 

Second, there are less female skaters at TCC at the senior level, and Eteri has more competitive female skaters overall. I don't know, but I get the feeling that Zhenya and even Alina tend to do well and gain energy even, from the competitive vibe at their home rink. I could be wrong, but that's the general vibe I get.

 

[Starfishsea]

1 minute ago, Xen said:

The rumors of Zhenya moving from Eteri seems to be popping up once every month since PyeongChang.  And "X skater moving to TCC" seems to be flavor of the month. People tend to forget that not all coaches you love fit with the skater you love. Hmm...personally, if she were still coaching, I'd rather Zhenya move to Tarasova instead of Orser-just a personal feeling that Tarasova might fit her more than even Orser.

 

Second, there are less female skaters at TCC at the senior level, and Eteri has more competitive female skaters overall. I don't know, but I get the feeling that Zhenya and even Alina tend to do well and gain energy even, from the competitive vibe at their home rink. I could be wrong, but that's the general vibe I get.

 

Me too. I think Eteri has a talent for training female skaters. She has fashion sense and choreographic sense too. I personally want Zhenya to stay with Eteri... But obviously some people on GS don't want her too. I just hope she denies the rumors anytime soon

[Yatagarasu]

3 hours ago, Starfishsea said:

 

On japanese forum skating fans put up cases where more than 10 russian skaters who trained overseas in the past. 

 

But that is not the point. I use Golden Skate app and so I have to see all those crazy rumors on my newsfeed even on Alina Zagitova's fanfest. Why Zhenya fans are sooo obsessed with sending her to TCC after the instagram deletion drama happened, I have no idea. I do wish the rumor was proved wrong anytime soon. I love Zhenya but I prefer TCC rink less crowded with Yuzu now practicing 4A soon. 

 

Can you please not insult Zhenya's fans, thank you.

 

The Russian Figure skating fandom has been talking about this for a good while.There are rumors and there are 'rumors'. The injury rumors were around for a long time before they admitted it. The current events about Zhenya have been bubbling up since late April and they're not your run-of-the-mill nonsense that pops up every now and then, like the idiocy that was Zhenya is switching countries. Now it's very simple, by May 21st due to how it all works in Russia and the window for transfers, everything will be sorted out. No, there are no recent denials by Zhenya herself, everything is old. None of this means that the transfer out is going to happen and there is no certainty in these rumors about that; if something did occur between her and the team then it can be sorted out. It's normal, people clash and then sort of out their differences. On the other hand, switching coaches is also perfectly normal, even when the skater and the team get along splendidly but the skater outgrows the coach and moves on. 

 

Now, why are Boyang fans so 'obsessed' with Boyang going to TCC? You even slotted him in there when there is literally no official decision of Boyang joining TCC, even for a summer stay. Orzel is not a full time TCC member, that was false info at the start. In other words, neither group is 'obsessed' with anything (and you can put Wakaba fans in this basket as they were thrilled by rumors about her transfer there) but they all see a potential opportunity for the betterment of their favorite. If TCC said yes if she had asked, that's a done deal and this idea that she will somehow 'trouble' Yuzuru is really out of line in regards to TCC and those who run it. Brian and Tracy have double interests here; yes, they will of course take into consideration the current members and their wishes, and here it is primarily Gabby actually but they will also take into considerations the interests of the club so they'd never allow a new member in if they don't think there is room for one and that it won't bother those already there as their club's reputation would suffer.

 

Having said that, Zhenya to TCC is a fan-rumor. There is nothing concrete from all the talk about these events that points directly to TCC. It's easy to see why it was generated though. She has major jump issues, and she needs to deal with that plus unless she up her technical content she is going to be in major trouble come the 2019/2020 season. TCC isn't the only club that was mentioned, fans speculated about many options; Raf was also very popular but he's probably out of the picture what with Marin, Eun Soo, Mariah and Nathan who will in general require balancing now but it's easy to see how this could benefit her and he gets a lady in her prime. Anyway, if a lot of her fans want her there, there's a good case to be made that she would do well there and prosper but that is no different from Boyang or Wakaba fans who think the same about them joining TCC. 

 

There are also very good reasons why Medvedeva should potentially want to leave Eteri's (not talking about any rumors here). But when we look at Eteri and her history and her statements about older, mature skaters there is a very big question mark hanging over her head whether she is even willing, and most importantly, is she even able to handle fully Zhenya's situation. Tracy Wilson asked a long time ago, is the turn-over method really sustainable and IMO it is not. So, let us say Eteri has figured that one out, finally, and wants to try and make it work. I've seen a lot of fans say great! The only little problem here is why should Zhenya accept to be the guinea pig while Eteri 'learns'. If she can find someone else to accept her, who has had experience with skaters above 18 then it is far better to go there if she can. She has one life, one career and two seasons from now, just the fight for spots is going to be brutal. 

 

Anyway. It's perfectly normal to see many people excited about the possibility of her jumping ship, just as there are those who want her to stay. We'll see how any of this turns out, it won't be long now in either case and whether she stays or goes, it won't be easy for her. Not even a little bit. She's swimming against the tide here and I am pretty sure she knows that.

[WinForPooh]

41 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Can you please not insult Zhenya's fans, thank you.

 

The Russian Figure skating fandom has been talking about this for a good while.There are rumors and there are 'rumors'. The injury rumors were around for a long time before they admitted it. The current events about Zhenya have been bubbling up since late April and they're not your run-of-the-mill nonsense that pops up every now and then, like the idiocy that was Zhenya is switching countries. Now it's very simple, by May 21st due to how it all works in Russia and the window for transfers, everything will be sorted out. No, there are no recent denials by Zhenya herself, everything is old. None of this means that the transfer is going to happen and there is no certainty in these rumors about that; if something did occur between her and the team then it can be sorted out. It's normal, people clash and then sort of out their differences. On the other hand, switching coaches is also perfectly normal, even when the skater and the team get along splendidly but the skater outgrows the coach and moves on. 

 

Now, why are Boyang fans so 'obsessed' with Boyang going to TCC? You even slotted him in there when there is literally no official decision of Boyang joining TCC, even for a summer stay. Orzel is not a full time TCC member, that was false info at the start. In other words, neither group is 'obsessed' with anything (and you can put Wakaba fans in this basket as they were thrilled by rumors about her transfer there) but they all see a potential opportunity for the betterment of their favorite. If TCC said yes if she had asked, that's a done deal and this idea that she will somehow 'trouble' Yuzuru is really out of line in regards to TCC and those who run it. Brian and Tracy have double interests here; yes, they will of course take into consideration the current members and their wishes, and here it is primarily Gabby actually but they will also take into considerations the interests of the club so they'd never allow a new member in if they don't think there is room for one and that it won't bother those already there as their club's reputation would suffer.

 

Having said that, Zhenya to TCC is a fan-rumor. There is nothing concrete from all the talk about these events that points directly to TCC. It's easy to see why it was generated though. She has major jump issues, and she needs to deal with that plus unless she ups her technical content she is going to be in major trouble come the 2019/2020 season. TCC isn't the only club that was mentioned, fans speculated about many options; Raf was also very popular but he's probably out of the picture what with Marin, Eun Soo, Mariah and Nathan who will in general require balancing now but it's easy to see how this could benefit her and he gets a lady in her prime. Anyway, if a lot of her fans want her there, there's a good case to be made that she would do well there and prosper but that is no different from Boyang or Wakaba fans who think the same about them joining TCC. 

 

There are also very good reasons why Medvedeva should potentially want to leave Eteri's (not talking about any rumors here). But when we look at Eteri and her history and her statements about older, mature skaters there is a very big question mark hanging over her head whether she is even willing, and most importantly, is she even able to handle fully Zhenya's situation. Tracy Wilson asked a long time ago, is the turn-over method really sustainable and IMO it is not. So, let us say Eteri has figured that one out, finally, and wants to try and make it work. I've seen a lot of fans say great! The only little problem here is why should Zhenya accept to be the guinea pig while Eteri 'learns'. If she can find someone else to accept her, who has had experience with skaters above 18 then it is far better to go there if she can. She has one life, one career and two seasons from now, just the fight for spots is going to be brutal. 

 

Anyway. It's perfectly normal to see many people excited about the possibility of her jumping ship, just as there are those who want her to stay. We'll see how any of this turns out, it won't be long now in either case and whether she stays or goes, it won't be easy for her. Not even a little bit. She's swimming against the tide here and I am pretty sure she knows that.

 

 

Personally, I do want to see Zhenya getting better the way she did last season. Whatever change is necessary for that, I hope she makes it. She won't be a direct competitor to Yuzu in any way so any concern about that is ???? 

 

Though now I'm wondering if TCC, given the choice, would prefer to take Wakaba or Zhenya. Taking both would be difficult, though if they feel up to it they could, always. But they have such completely different coaching requirements! Wakaba has an excellent 2A that could possibly become a 3A (that BOrser should be able to help with), she needs her flip edge sorted (again, Yuzu's flip is now stable but that's not only down to TCC, it was already getting much better when he got there), she needs her PCS boosted (TCC could help with that) and she needs more complex transitions in her programmes (TCC could help with that as well).

 

Zhenya needs her jumps sorted (lutz edge, her slightly scratchy axel landings, prerotation on toeloop in combo, bit of a toe hammer on her flip) and she needs to have her training handled carefully so she doesn't get lasting damage from injuries (TCC could be good at that given the chance). 

 

Wakaba might be more comfortable territory for TCC. With Zhenya, they'd have to do something different, and I don't know if TCC has the kind of track record to justify a move from Zhenya? Zhenya is generally an excellent edge-jumper (love her loops and sals, she has gorgeous loops and sals) and her skating skills have improved so much in the last season. There has to be somebody else for her?

 

But this is all hypothetical. 

[Xen]

1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

 

 

Personally, I do want to see Zhenya getting better the way she did last season. Whatever change is necessary for that, I hope she makes it. She won't be a direct competitor to Yuzu in any way so any concern about that is ???? 

 

Though now I'm wondering if TCC, given the choice, would prefer to take Wakaba or Zhenya. Taking both would be difficult, though if they feel up to it they could, always. But they have such completely different coaching requirements! Wakaba has an excellent 2A that could possibly become a 3A (that BOrser should be able to help with), she needs her flip edge sorted (again, Yuzu's flip is now stable but that's not only down to TCC, it was already getting much better when he got there), she needs her PCS boosted (TCC could help with that) and she needs more complex transitions in her programmes (TCC could help with that as well).

 

Zhenya needs her jumps sorted (lutz edge, her slightly scratchy axel landings, prerotation on toeloop in combo, bit of a toe hammer on her flip) and she needs to have her training handled carefully so she doesn't get lasting damage from injuries (TCC could be good at that given the chance). 

 

Wakaba might be more comfortable territory for TCC. With Zhenya, they'd have to do something different, and I don't know if TCC has the kind of track record to justify a move from Zhenya? Zhenya is generally an excellent edge-jumper (love her loops and sals, she has gorgeous loops and sals) and her skating skills have improved so much in the last season. There has to be somebody else for her?

 

But this is all hypothetical. 

Is it alright for me to sigh and say, that I wish Tarasova still coached?

People also forgetting that Zueva exists. Or Ravi. There are some lesser known coaches who could also work, such as Yuka Sato, Robin Wagner etc. And I'm not familiar with the coaches in Western Europe, but there has to be some.

 

Thing is, when we talk about coaching changes and people going to (or not going to) TCC, it's about whether or not the move would benefit TCC and the skater in question. Sure, Yuzu would be effected, which is why he and other skaters in TCC would be consulted and asked first. But as BOrser said, TCC treats all skaters fairly, so it's not just about Yuzu. Frankly, I think it's a bit of a discredit to him, if we view all and any potential training mate as a "distraction."

 

As for TCC- it's closer to a "finishing" school. A good one at that, but not necessarily for all skaters.

[Yatagarasu]

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

Is it alright for me to sigh and say, that I wish Tarasova still coached?

People also forgetting that Zueva exists. Or Ravi. There are some lesser known coaches who could also work, such as Yuka Sato, Robin Wagner etc. And I'm not familiar with the coaches in Western Europe, but there has to be some.

 

I have wished that many, many times. Sigh indeed. Unfortunately it's her health and she dropped even choreographing. I think Plushenko isn't truly into this idea of coaching, not yet as he seems to be flying all over the place, is booked to mid 2019 and you cannot coach with that kind of split attention. Of course, obligations, money to be earned but ... anyway, he'd be big enough to back her but don't think so.

 

I don't think any lesser known coach would work for someone like Zhenya as her situation is peculiar. It would probably have to be a big name. She is going to require a major coaching force behind her back to politic for her, what with everything now, never mind in the future, and no smaller name can do that. It's really Ravi/Marina/Brian and probably Raf/Tom Z on the USA side that are in play. The trouble with those is that Ravi has Osmond of all people, so SC would probably have a fit, and we've mentioned Raf. So that leaves us with Marina/Brian/Tom Z I suppose which is why I can easily see peeps zooming in on Brian then. There's Lambiel in Europe but even with Deniss, he has a lot of work ahead of him to get himself properly established as a full coaching name.