The 2014 Patrick Chan and Yuzu Situation

[rockstaryuzu]

7 hours ago, Fay said:

Icenetwork has started this interesting project. See what comes as their first story

 

Looks like everyone noticed except Patrick. Kind of a shame really. 

 

His sometimes unsportsmanlike attitude is why I didn't like him at first - we Canadians much prefer our athletes to be more like Scott Moir - but watching live changed my mind about him.

[Yatagarasu]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:09 PM, Sombreuil said:

Ungracious in victory and defeat - I remember now why I disliked him when he was a bumptious 22 year old and it wasn't the skating it was the arrogance.

 

It's why I never warmed up to him as a skater (though he's not my cup of tea as one either, his skill is undeniable). I mean if you look at his latest statement about no hating Zu and being proud of himself for it, I yet again have to face palm. Me, me, me. But ultimately it is exactly his ego that did him in. He's a massive talent; his good jumps are often I think overlooked thanks to his fantastic skating skills. I am actually pretty sad that we will never have the chance to see his 4F as he did have it at one point and then, well ... 

No doubt he had a huge influence on Zu, and in general, on Canadian skating. I wish him well as a coach, hopefully he'll learn not to allow that ego to keep on influencing the younger generations now as he has a an amazing amount of skill to pass on. 

[rockstaryuzu]

11 hours ago, Yatagarasu said:

But ultimately it is exactly his ego that did him in

Truth. That and his utter lack of self-awareness. Some of the things he said, even this year, not even when he was talking about other skaters but about himself, and even though he was acknowledging that his time at the top had passed, had me facepalming so hard...at one point I remember being angry that tax dollars were being spent to send him to PyeongChang while he was talking like it was some kind of a farewell tour.   Like, come on. It's the Olympics, you HAVE to bring your A game no matter what or else let someone else compete instead. 

 

 

 

 

[Dreamer]

Patrick's lack of success in the last quad is due to his lack of insight into his own weaknesses and resting on his laurels.  He already knows his strengths and touts them loudly.

I do not know a lot about skating but even I could tell that he often folded under pressure, and his triple Axel was his nemesis.  Last, thinking that you don't need a coach(how arrogant and blind) is probably not a good mindset for someone who wants to achieve the pinnacle of the sport.  Underestimating your competitors is also not a 'winning trait' ....A champion needs to keep striving to improve, to keep ahead of the curve.

 

I also did not like his trashtalking his fellow skaters...maybe it has to do with his being an only child.  Being gracious in defeat and generous in victory ....

[Figure_Frenzy]

On 9/25/2018 at 9:47 PM, Dreamer said:

I also did not like his trashtalking his fellow skaters...

...it is this trait of him (his "foot-in-mouth" tendency) that really put me off of him. I admit that I am being unfair to him for not giving myself the chance to watch his performances (save for his Take Five SP) and judge him primarily as a skater, and also for taking things he said in interviews (too) seriously (being morally uptight and all ;p) — but this tendency, man, I can only   at him.

 

(Also at the very least, all of his foot-in-mouth utterances are really just...bad (as in, no rhyme or reason whatsoever ), not mentioning his constant dismissal of Yuzu (ie. only considering Javi as his (worthy) rival — not even thinking about the existence of Yuzu at all), it's all just...)

[Dreamer]

His retirement speech was way more gracious and he cried when his Mom sent in a message( i think they hadn't been in communication for a while?)

Of course, being a parent myself, I give side eye to someone who hasn't talked to his Mom in ages (especially a child to whom many advantages were given).

That may be unfair of me, and certainly judgemental but, eh?

 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Dreamer said:

His retirement speech was way more gracious and he cried when his Mom sent in a message( i think they hadn't been in communication for a while?)

Of course, being a parent myself, I give side eye to someone who hasn't talked to his Mom in ages (especially a child to whom many advantages were given).

That may be unfair of me, and certainly judgemental but, eh?

 

Actually, my understanding is that he and his parents have a pretty normal parent-child relationship with no problems, at least based on what I've seen in Canadian media. But I didn't watch his retirement speech so who knows.

 

My overall impression of him is that he's a better guy than the unfortunate first impression he gives makes him seem. And I really do urge people to go see him skate live, it's a revelation.

 

 

[hoodie axel]

Oh, this popped up when I happened to be lurking. Cool.

 

Patrick Chan had very good skating skills. Nice spin positions and centering, although nothing phenomenal apart from that. His jumps were fine, he had very nice triples and a good 4T. His 3A was ehhhh.

 

Everything else was lacking. His performance and interpretation abilities were merely "good" for someone the judges chose to make a three-time world champion (he deserved it all of once), his choreography was often shallow, and he skated with very little depth. He was utterly limited artistically, and improved very, very little throughout his career. I think all the current top men show better ability/potential in those departments than Chan did towards the end of his career. Not sure what was up with him, but I also really don't care.

 

That being said, he had a better LP choreographically than Yuzuru at Sochi, and had he gone clean, would have deserved a larger gap in PCS and the win.

 

ETA: Oh, and he can stuff it. Glad he's gone.

 

[EisElle]

I advice people to watch a bit of Patrick's warm interactions with Team Canada and this funny video of Javi and Patrick playing videogames. (I don't remeber if it has already been posted). He's just a normal guy, who, as a competitor, had this big issue of not being able to look around and see what his competition was doing and learn from them, instead of dismissing. Or at least, not just seek refuge and reassurance in his own strenghts, but be inspired to improve his weaknesses too...at least that's how I see him (and probably the judging before Sochi in several instances might have reinforced his views and made him quite complacent).

Anyway, I admit I have kinda warmed to him a bit more after he finally said something nice about Yuzuru LOL (I count this as character development...not his, mine)

As for his skating, it will never be my cup of tea but I've come to appreciate it, and one has to give credit where it's due Actually, I think that the type of music he usually skates to doesn't help me liking his progams (but then again, Yuzuru made a fanyu out of me skating to a music I didn't like)

 

@hoodie axel I don't know if you've seen @Fresca's analysis of R&J2 choreo (in this thread maybe? I can't remember)

the choreo itself wasn't bad, tho execution in competition was never really as it could have been... tho I also don't remember Patrick's long from Sochi, so I can't really compare the two whops

[hoodie axel]

1 hour ago, LadyLou said:

@hoodie axel I don't know if you've seen @Fresca's analysis of R&J2 choreo (in this thread maybe? I can't remember)

the choreo itself wasn't bad, tho execution in competition was never really as it could have been... tho I also don't remember Patrick's long from Sochi, so I can't really compare the two whops

No, the choreography wasn't that great. Very little attention to effect, pacing, form, and purpose.

[makebelieveup]

2 hours ago, LadyLou said:

I advice people to watch a bit of Patrick's warm interactions with Team Canada and this funny video of Javi and Patrick playing videogames. (I don't remeber if it has already been posted). He's just a normal guy, who, as a competitor, had this big issue of not being able to look around and see what his competition was doing and learn from them, instead of dismissing. Or at least, not just seek refuge and reassurance in his own strenghts, but be inspired to improve his weaknesses too...at least that's how I see him (and probably the judging before Sochi in several instances might have reinforced his views and made him quite complacent).

Anyway, I admit I have kinda warmed to him a bit more after he finally said something nice about Yuzuru LOL (I count this as character development...not his, mine)

As for his skating, it will never be my cup of tea but I've come to appreciate it, and one has to give credit where it's due Actually, I think that the type of music he usually skates to doesn't help me liking his progams (but then again, Yuzuru made a fanyu out of me skating to a music I didn't like)

 

@hoodie axel I don't know if you've seen @Fresca's analysis of R&J2 choreo (in this thread maybe? I can't remember)

the choreo itself wasn't bad, tho execution in competition was never really as it could have been... tho I also don't remember Patrick's long from Sochi, so I can't really compare the two whops

 

It took me quite some time as a fanyu to revisit his R&J 2 program and for it to grow on me. It was definitely not as choreographically outstanding compared to his other free. I like his R&J 1 a lot more like a lot. Its funny because he wrote this long email to David Wilson, begging him to choreograph his free to win Sochi, which thank God he did. The best things about R&J 2 program are the familiar soundtracks (good music cuts) and his expressions 

 

edit: let me squeeze some Patrick into my post to stay relevant

 

I'm not a fan of his skating style. I dont watch that many videos of other skaters, unfortunately, if two or three videos of theirs don't appeal to me. I remember back then casually watching a few men's event programs at Sochi Olympics and his was one of them. I just thought he was good because of the comments and views but didnt really feel like watching more from him. I didnt think he was snotty or anything until I later learned about their situation. I don't really dislike him, just indifferent. I think many athletes are catergorized into two types. Those who reached great heights of success so every one else is their enemy. Those who are nice and friendly, they are top skaters but are okay with where they are. As for Yuzu, you kinda get both. He is his greatest and only enemy, so his competitive air is projected toward himself, which sometimes leads to self loathing instead. With others, he shows an incredible sportsmanship. He is so special to watch as an athlete and person. 

[Xen]

I always do wonder, when it comes to Yuzu's programs-his earlier Wilson pieces were they done with Wilson because maybe he didn't quite have the stamina or the SS to fully keep up with what Shae had in mind? In comparison, the Shae programs are jam-packed, never boring and physically more taxing. So perhaps there is a gradual hierarchy of difficulty when it comes to choreographers in TCC itself?

 

As for Patrick- there was a day when I sat down and watched a series of his programs. Style wise, it hasn't changed. Do wonder a bit, if in order to emphasize his style, which places importance on showing his SS edges significantly (holding movements out longer than versus Yuzu or even Jav), maybe adapting to other styles, music etc was compromised.

[Naonica]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

I always do wonder, when it comes to Yuzu's programs-his earlier Wilson pieces were they done with Wilson because maybe he didn't quite have the stamina or the SS to fully keep up with what Shae had in mind? In comparison, the Shae programs are jam-packed, never boring and physically more taxing. So perhaps there is a gradual hierarchy of difficulty when it comes to choreographers in TCC itself?

 

As for Patrick- there was a day when I sat down and watched a series of his programs. Style wise, it hasn't changed. Do wonder a bit, if in order to emphasize his style, which places importance on showing his SS edges significantly (holding movements out longer than versus Yuzu or even Jav), maybe adapting to other styles, music etc was compromised.

 

I feel it's more like Wilson was the main choreographer at TCC when Yuzu first started? Yuna only skated to programs choreographed by him, just as Javier. And I can just imagine that Yuzu, being Yuzu, also wanted Wilson aka the guy who makes programs for (stars in eyes) Javier and his beautiful 4S (uwu uwu uwu)!

But I've always felt that Wilson, at the time, did not fully understand the drive and hunger of Yuzu for both strong competitive programs that are highly artistic as well.

 

I'm really curious to know if it was Yuzu who brought Shae to TCC? And even now, at TCC, she mainly works with Yuzu. I would love to know the story of how these 2 found each other

POTO is either a hit or a miss for most Fanyus but I admit to watching his WTT performance at least once a month. If only that season wasn't cursed...

 

Aannd to stay on topic. Oh, Paddy. He missed the bigger picture and in the end, he only cut in his own flesh so to speak. I wonder if he regrets that now?

I'd love for the original top 6, to one day have a show together. And they watch footage together of the highlights of their careers ánd as a real treat: they all skate to each other programs. I want this so much that I'd consider robbing a bank to have the funds and make this happen.

[EisElle]

2 hours ago, Naonica said:

 

I feel it's more like Wilson was the main choreographer at TCC when Yuzu first started? Yuna only skated to programs choreographed by him, just as Javier. And I can just imagine that Yuzu, being Yuzu, also wanted Wilson aka the guy who makes programs for (stars in eyes) Javier and his beautiful 4S (uwu uwu uwu)!

But I've always felt that Wilson, at the time, did not fully understand the drive and hunger of Yuzu for both strong competitive programs that are highly artistic as well.

 

I'm really curious to know if it was Yuzu who brought Shae to TCC? And even now, at TCC, she mainly works with Yuzu. I would love to know the story of how these 2 found each other

POTO is either a hit or a miss for most Fanyus but I admit to watching his WTT performance at least once a month. If only that season wasn't cursed...

 

Aannd to stay on topic. Oh, Paddy. He missed the bigger picture and in the end, he only cut in his own flesh so to speak. I wonder if he regrets that now?

I'd love for the original top 6, to one day have a show together. And they watch footage together of the highlights of their careers ánd as a real treat: they all skate to each other programs. I want this so much that I'd consider robbing a bank to have the funds and make this happen.

I don't know how many programs Shae had choreographed before Yuzuru, but I think it's fair enough to say he's popularized her and now she's quite sought after (Nathan and Waka last season and this, Shoma's EX which is by far my fave of his in the last couple of seasons...) some of her programs are really good I have to say...I think on average she probably does better programs than DW, tho idk if the number of programs they do is comparable I guess creativity suffers when workload is too much...

I have the feeling people usually start with DW because he's kind of trusted TCC choreographer (maybe he's even at the rink more often), so they go with him and see how it goes... he obviously worked well with Yuna and Javi (negl I hoped Zhenya would get one non-DW program tho). I wonder why there was the switch from DW to Shae...was it Brian's idea, or whose? On the other side, glad that with Jeff it worked well since the very start (and that DW has done some beautiful programs for Yuzuru too)

 

aaaaaaaand to say on topic yeah, I hope one day we can see all of them...but I'd really love for specifically Yuzu and Patrick skating in same ice-show tbh...because it's so rare, I think it's only happened in summer 2014...it's such a waste...

[Lambari]

I only saw this thread now because I was away after the Olympics but I just wanted to say that Chanyu is still my favourite rivalry in Yuzuru's career! The Javier/Yuzuru dynamics are great but nothing as entertaining as the endless passive agressive discussions on boards about Yuzuru vs Patrick Lol  I remember that 'Chan vs Hanyu'  thread on GS back when we were almost exclusively there, before this Yuzuru forum was made, that reached more than 200 pages.   I think I'll try to find again to read for the giggles.

 

And I always had a spot for Patrick because, as some already stated here, his comments for me were clearly his defensive mechanism to try to deal with everything. But I understand if some fans are caught up on the first impression he gave. The debate around his World titles didn't put him in a good light for the fans that tend to wrongly hold scores against the skater, although others fans may dislike him for his foot-in-mouth syndrome. Probably the "Chanflation" hate comments hurt him deeply or at least was one of biggest motivators for him to as a defense try to elevate his strongest points and downplay his weakness. It's a human reaction and rooted in his type of personality and of course most fans didn't take this quite well.  

 

At least I lived to see a select group of skating fans hyping the 'Hanyuflation' during the 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 season that in retrospect seem quite comical given the common opinion now that Yuzuru is underscored. 

 

For anyone wanting to check his skating I recommend his POTO LP during 2010/2011 I believe   (for me still the best POTO sorry Shae and Yuzuru k)  and his Adagio LP during 2011/2012 but his Canadian National performances because he usually peaked there.  I've always wanted to see him skating live for his sublime skating skills but, oh well, it's difficult when you live at the other (tropical) side of the world.

 

I remember when Yuzuru said that when he turned seniors in 2010 and competed with Patrick for the first time he was so mesmerized by Patrick's blade work that he couldn't focus and failed his performance LOL  

 

Even though Javier probably had a more lasting impact in Yuzuru, especially since they were in contact during training, I believe Patrick was his main motivator during the beginning of his senior career based on his comments back them.   

 

About R&J 2.0 I agree that it's frustrating how this program never reached full potential. I used to scream internally whenever Yuzuru dropped the choreography when he became too tired and replay his LP practices more than his competition outings (Finlandia Trophy was always one of my favourites!). The fact that Yuzuru now is capable to replicate closely his practices most of the times is a dream. A  program like H&L would never reach the level that World 2017 was back in 2013. And that's a testament about his growth in stamina.