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17 minutes ago, Dara said:

Speaking of Shoma's Oly scoring and tech calls. I read one Japanese blog today and that blogger pointed out that Shoma's FCCoSp should be not counted at all or at least (as technical panel was soft on other skaters too) called FCCoSp3V instead of level 4. Apparently his camel position as well as upright position lacks 2 full rotations - and a spin with no basic position with 2 revs should receive no level and no points.

I can't find Shoma's FS video (taken down, urgh) to check this, but if it's right...:tumblr_inline_n3i9deSlww1qid2nw:

 

You can find the full men's FS here, though not sure if geoblocked or not:

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/playback/figure-skating-mens-free-skating/

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I have to say that after Uno skated his FS, I was so relieved that he would not go above Yuzu, that I didn't even think about whether he would pass Fernandez. And then when it was confirmed that Zu has won, I was too happy to even pay attention to the fact that Uno just got silver. 

By the time I checked the protocol and saw not even < for Uno's 4Lo, I just went "And some people dare to say judges and tech panels are not on Uno's side". 

I mean, if we're truly going to scrutinize the scores, I am sure Fernandez GOEs for some of the elements could be knocked down a few in both SP and FS, too.

So, about the placing, I am rather 'eh' about it. 

 


Just out of curiosity, for those of you who watched the whole Men's event with commentaries (I watch without commentaries, and only watched the ones with commentaries for Zu's programs), were there any commentators that gush over Jin's 4CC win the same way they did over Fernandez' European win?

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52 minutes ago, Dara said:

Speaking of Shoma's Oly scoring and tech calls. I read one Japanese blog today and that blogger pointed out that Shoma's FCCoSp should be not counted at all or at least (as technical panel was soft on other skaters too) called FCCoSp3V instead of level 4. Apparently his camel position as well as upright position lacks 2 full rotations - and a spin with no basic position with 2 revs should receive no level and no points.

I can't find Shoma's FS video (taken down, urgh) to check this, but if it's right...:tumblr_inline_n3i9deSlww1qid2nw:

 

I'm like the worst.

 

Uno's scoring wouldn't touch Hanyu's gold medal anyway and yet Hanyu's last spin in his SP...:slinkaway:Consistency, judges. 

 

48 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

 

I don't think he is salty. IIRC he kept getting asked this question until he ultimately caved and answered..? Anyway, well, I think TCC is aware of Shoma's issues and (possible) overscoring, given Tracy's eloquent shade during SC and Brian and Yuzu constantly talking about technique. But none of them hold it against Shoma himself.

 

 I was very surprised the 4Lo wasn't called, because usually when Shoma falls, the jump is UR'd (and called). And that would've made the difference :(

 

Salty is my bad on my part. For skaters like him and Hanyu, if they ever look at the protocols, maybe frustrated and confused would be a better word, though they're probably resigned after the fact too.

 

I read somewhere a while ago about some skater saying that some of them do discuss scores or something sometimes (don't bet on my memory). They know. Javi finally said something here. He knows.

 

FS is so appalling in that skaters and coaches have to know the rules inside and out to build programs and work on their issues (like Shoma and Zhenya know they have problems with some jumps even if they get away with it) and yet judges don't seem to have to either know or apply them correctly.

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14 minutes ago, Dara said:

I get message about an error, probably this means it is geoblocked.

 

Here's a CBC version:

 

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4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Here's a CBC version:

 

Thank you!

Now I see that Shoma definitely lowers his leg before he finished full second rotation. Upright is borderline I think? So it's not lvl 4 spin (meanwhile Yuzu got lvl 3 on his last spin in SP).

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1 hour ago, Dara said:

Thank you!

Now I see that Shoma definitely lowers his leg before he finished full second rotation. Upright is borderline I think? So it's not lvl 4 spin (meanwhile Yuzu got lvl 3 on his last spin in SP).

I find it funny that tech specialist at the Olympics forgave and ignored many issues. While in the summer that ISU specialist specifically told me there’re this issue with this or that skater.

Like they all know but they chose to ignore because the system will be revamped after Olympics ends soon so they’re like “why bother”.

 

oh and about Yuzuru, I have said this in other place, all the favourites in other disciplines like Pair, Ladies and Ice dance got quite a number of World Records but Yuzuru didn’t get one for his Short program, it’s so clear to me he was respected by the judges but they wrote him off and maybe secretly has chose someone else for the new World records but it didn’t happen. 

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1 minute ago, meoima said:

I find it funny that tech specialist at the Olympics forgave and ignored many issues. While in the summer that ISU specialist specifically told me there’re this issue with this or that skater.

Like they all know but they chose to ignore because the system will be revamped after Olympics ends soon so they’re like “why bother”.

 

oh and about Yuzuru, I have said this in other place, all the favourites in other disciplines like Pair, Ladies and Ice dance got quite a number of World Records but Yuzuru didn’t get one for his Short program, it’s so clear to me he was respected by the judges but they wrote him off and maybe secretly has chose someone else for the new World records but ut didn’t happen. 

 

I feel like the ignoring doesn't happen only because its this season and the Olympics though, that's why it's even more frustrating. And if they do know and act dumb or turn a blind eye depending on the skater its even more annoying. You can learn to correct it if you don't know and do wrong, but if you do know and do wrong anyway its like...huh.

 

And you never know. The WR didn't happen at Olys, but worlds is coming up and the old guard and Yuzu might not be there. There won't be a standard to compare the quadsters to.

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3 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

 

I feel like the ignoring doesn't happen only because its this season and the Olympics though, that's why it's even more frustrating. And if they do know and act dumb or turn a blind eye depending on the skater its even more annoying. You can learn to correct it if you don't know and do wrong, but if you do know and do wrong anyway its like...huh.

 

And you never know. The WR didn't happen at Olys, but worlds is coming up and the old guard and Yuzu might not be there. There won't be a standard to compare the quadsters to.

I have been thinking about this since the end of the men's competition as well. I totally expected at least one world record but it didn't happen, so now I am expecting very interesting scoring at Worlds  :slinkaway:

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2 hours ago, yuzupon said:

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who watched the whole Men's event with commentaries (I watch without commentaries, and only watched the ones with commentaries for Zu's programs), were there any commentators that gush over Jin's 4CC win the same way they did over Fernandez' European win?

Czech commentators mentioned it, I wouldn't say exactly gushed over it, they said many of the big names weren't there, but a win is a win anyway, or something along those lines. And they also mentioned Javi's Europeans win, but didn't exactly gush over it either (out of curiosity, who did gush over Javi's win?)

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Re: Shoma and Javi scoring

Shoma's 4Lo: what's really puzzling is that the jump was put under review (the square was yellow, not red despite the -4 goe so panel had it marked for review) and yet the panel decided it wasn't even UR. For how bad camera angle and quality of the recording might be, that UR was still mightly hard to miss:shrug: that's one of those instances when to give the benefit of the doubt and to blame the poor equipment is reaaaaaaaaally hard :shrug:

imo some of Javi's goe could be a bit too generous, too, but overall I think there are no doubts that, with correct tech calls, he would have gotten silver, so I admire that he really doesn't hold a grudge. tbh the reaction of many commentators when Shoma's score came up and they learned he was silver makes me think they were expecting Shoma to be bronze. I was so freakin' happy for Yuzu that I missed the standings recap twice and I had to check the isu page to see who had gotten silver and I was a bit surprised.

Scoring talk aside, I'm happy Javi could have the best FS of the season when it mattered the most:tumblr_inline_n18qraikFP1qid2nw:

Also,  for some reason this was the Turandot I appreciated the most from Shoma tho I don't know how much it weighted that after his first mistake I stopped biting my nails for Yuzuru and I could relax and everything became unicorns and rainbows for me:P

 

6 hours ago, KatjaThera said:

More coaching thoughts under spoiler, since even if we were to take it to another thread, I'm not sure where it'd belong

  Hide contents

I do find myself worrying about those girls, though. Of course, athletes make sacrifices and Yuzu made a ton, including, at times, his health/well being. But that was his decision and one only reluctantly accepted by his coaching team, more out of respect for him. For a coach to say the athletes NEED to make such sacrifices is a bit much for me. Especially when the athletes are such young girls who will surely still undergo changes, because they're still just teens and hormones don't discriminate between athletes and non-athletes. It makes me appreciate Brian's approach even more. And Nanami-sensei's, too, for that matter.

 

sorry that I'm quoting you in this thread, I just wanted to keep discussing this.:tumblr_inline_ncmifaymmi1rpglid:

 

IMO there are no doubts Brian and Eteri have very different approaches when it comes to training, but Eteri isn't wrong and she isn't being "harsh" when she says that if Zhenya and Alina want to aim for Beijing they need to sacrifice everything. She's merely stating the truth, which is terryfing but is the truth, in the context of what a Russian lady needs if she wants to even be picked for the Olympic team.

I've come to appreciate Zhenya and I'd like to see Alina develop her real potential (no more ballet, thanks:P) so I'd be happy if they could both be still there by 2022, but tbh I think it's quite likely that at least one of them won't even make it to the olympic team, let alone aim for gold. Quite a few of the wunderkinds we saw in J GPF won't, either. There are just too many good skaters. That's the actual state of Russian ladies skating, the field is so scarily deep even an excellent skater can be swallowed by it and never be sent to any major international comp.

And it's going to be even worse., because Junior ladies' field is crazy talented. Just considering the upcoming Jr Worlds, you have at least 3 or 4 more girls who would have deserved to go and would even have battled for podium, but weren't even selected (3 out of the 5 in the gpf aren't going, and I'll miss wild child Tarakanova the most). And Anna Shcherbakova wasn't even in the mix because of her injury and now she's back she's defeated little monster Sasha Trusova, just to say what is the level we have now, among juniors who will be senior by 2022.

It's likely in the few years at least a few of those ladies will jump a quad or a 3A and all of them are consistent, too. Alina will soon lose her TES advantage among senior, Zhenya already has. It's not that the coach is pushing for them to kill themselves. The depth of the field demands that. If you really want the OGM there is no other way than killing yourself because the field is that crazy.

It is a sad but it's not Eteri's approach that it's wrong, hers is actually the only one possible in that specific context (you need to be hungry, you need to be tough, because if you falter there's plenty people waiting to take your place) and imo that's why her skaters are doing so well in both senior and junior. Those who can't keep up are left behind. It's cruel, but it's not Eteri's fault, it's the whole system and the fact that there are too many skaters and not enough spots. True, for some skaters Eteri's tough approach wouldn't work, but still, only the skaters who will devote themselves wholly will have a chance.

Are all those young ladies really aware of what going for their dream really means? I hope they are. :tumblr_inline_mzx91uuLRI1r8msi5:

But I think that it's on the parents to explain their children that they could potentially ruin their bodies or waste years of their lives for nothing, and that maybe that gold medal isn't worth so many sacrifices. 

 

Japanese Ladies field is a bit similar, tho maybe it's a little bit less cluttered in comparison and imo that's why you can find lots of different coaching approaches thrive. Still, so many good skaters and not enoug spots. I don't expect Satoko to be still at the top by 2022. Mai, Kaori, Wakaba, Marin, they will all have to fight if they really want Bejing, because Rika K. will be there to fight with her 3As and more Jr girls will rise, all hungry for those spots at the top, and a their coaches would be fools if they said: dear, you can get it without shedding tears and blood. The coaches won't demand that, but the skaters will need to decide how much of theor lives they want to put on the line for that dream, and how much that dream means for them.
 

little side note, I hope this won't come across as Shoma hate because I don't mean it like that, read at your own risk

Spoiler

 

I know Shoma deserved his medal and he worked hard to get it, and I know he looks fluffy but he is a fierce competitor, but tbh it puts me a bit off that for him the olympic silver was just like any other medal, because other skaters placed much more meaning on that competition and some of them didn't got any medal. Just on an emotional level, I'd be more happy if those who get the medals are also those who placed the more meaning on them. It doesn't mean Shoma hasn't erned his, I just can't help but feel that, on a personal and emotional level, it is a bit of a waste. Or maybe, more correctly, I shoul say that, watching from the outside, I myself am more happy when skaters are really, deeply, truly happy because they achieved their dream)

 

 

If used wisely, imo the change of GOE range might actually result in more longevity of skaters, ladies in particular, but in truth many of the upcoming junior ladies have not only harder jumps (so higher BV) but also better technique (Nana Araki's toe jumps, Tarakanova's big jumps, even Sasha T jumps are big enough), many of them have no flutzes or lips, they do not UR or PR that much and so on (which makes me think they have some chance to survive puberty...  the one I worry the most rn is actually Alena Kostornaia, she is so small and sometimes her jumps look a bit tight...but still, she has way way way better jumps than, for example, Satoko) and some of those girls are already able to pack the entries and exits of their jumps with transitions, so they wouldn't be that far behind in goe either, if judges score according to the rulebook. So I think a BV upgrade will still be necessary for the current senior ladies. Which is crazy, considering how much the bar was raised in the last quad, when so many ladies got total score over 210 and FS over 140.:tumblr_inline_mm2wbbdJC51qz4rgp:

 

 

3 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

I am hoping that yuzu sparked a new generation of boys in japan to learn figure skating, so that males figure skating in japan matches the competitive pool of russian ladies right now. Then we might have a chance of seeing someone similar to yuzu in talent, star power and looks ♥ 

I would watch out for Shun Sato, he's from Sendai too, he yolo-ed a 3A at the end of his program and he's very young, like Stephen Gogolev. Some people reportedly said "he'd the purest talent from Japan since Yuzuru Hanyu" (I thought it was Ambesi because it was on Neveitalia, but I can't find a direct quote:shrug: tho imo it sounds quite Ambesi-like:laughing:).

Of course both Shun and Stephen are really young and they have a long way to go, but right now they seem to me those closer to the potential of a great skater. Certainly I see more potential in them than in most of the guys who are going to turn senior the next couple of seasons. Then of course there are a couple of amazing russian boys (like the one who was in COR and Euro gala), but I think they'll still be too young for Beijing, so we will have to wait a bit longer.:biggrin:

I have a soft spot for Jun Hwan Cha and he's still younger than a few of those who were in Junior GP (like Krashnozon who falls very flat to me, despite his roaring. His programs and style look quite a bit "old school", jumps jumps jumps and everything else as an afterthought. :slinkaway:The skaters who have better ss and musicality are worse on jumps, so I don't think next season's new crop will really shake the current men standings than much). Hopefully Jun Hwan can get back consistent quads, his jumps often do look effortless:10636614: tho his 3A, while improving, is still not on par with Yuzuru's 3A at his age (and he his spins are not as pretty:P)

Yes, I judges guys based on how they do the Axel. Give me an Axel guy and I'll love him:smiley-love017:

 

 

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1 hour ago, LadyLou said:

(...)

Of course both Shun and Stephen are really young and they have a long way to go, but right now they seem to me those closer to the potential of a great skater. Certainly I see more potential in them than in most of the guys who are going to turn senior the next couple of seasons. Then of course there are a couple of amazing russian boys (like the one who was in COR and Euro gala), but I think they'll still be too young for Beijing, so we will have to wait a bit longer.:biggrin:

I have a soft spot for Jun Hwan Cha and he's still younger than a few of those who were in Junior GP (like Krashnozon who falls very flat to me, despite his roaring. His programs and style look quite a bit "old school", jumps jumps jumps and everything else as an afterthought. :slinkaway:The skaters who have better ss and musicality are worse on jumps, so I don't think next season's new crop will really shake the current men standings than much). Hopefully Jun Hwan can get back consistent quads, his jumps often do look effortless:10636614: tho his 3A, while improving, is still not on par with Yuzuru's 3A at his age (and he his spins are not as pretty:P)

Yes, I judges guys based on how they do the Axel. Give me an Axel guy and I'll love him:smiley-love017:

 

 

 

I agree about the current state of junior men, at least based on what I was watching 2016-2017.  Ladies has been overflowing with promise throughout these last couple of years, with each season a new one climb up in the ranks, regardless of who are your favourites. I believe, that the next generation of skaters finally have the potential  to be great. I'm absolutely in love with Alena Kostornaia. (I also like Rika Kihira!) I need to be prepared for the heartbreak if it comes, but everyone who follows junior ladies needs to. It's a though life for us (and them). I'm still sad that Anastasia Gubanova (my love!) isn't quite holding up partially due to the competitiveness of the russian field.  But let's be positive, Alena will have incredible programs in the future and will become a gorgeous Ladies champion in every sense of the word (!!). I'm aware she's not even 15 but I need to speak it into existence for my own sanity. Bear with me, I'm sitll in the honeymoon phase.

 

I do miss the longevity that earlier top ladies had up until Vancouver and Sochi, or maybe I'm just nostalgic for Yuna/Mao and exagerating a bit for them. I probably am I actually don't have much against the current senior ladies but everything just somehow feels less magical, which is completely subjective of course, I understand that. I hope that Evgenia can stay longer and grow even more as a performer. We can all say that she was dominant, for 2 years, whether someone agrees or no with her scores. She has the potential to be around longer at the top, but she needs to hold up against the new influx of russian ladies. I'm not a big fan of Alina's skating but I adore her as a person and she deserves to have a great career too!

 

About the junior men,  I don't know if it's just my impression but it seems that the number of great 3A jumpers are becoming much less, maybe because of the emphasis on the new quads.  I admit I'm not much updated with the junior men so if anyone could give me a heads up I would appreciate a lot (this season I took a semi-break from skating for several reasons)  But the few that I've seen made me remember that my biggest pet peeve in skating are telegraphed jumps. (apart from half covered boots, oh god. I still believe that the crucial factor for my subconscious to start liking Evgenia was the fact that she ditched those boot covers for GOOD. Unfortunately. that's what it is. I'm shallow after all...Alina please be the next one). I guess that's probably why I've never been too much of a Kostner enthusiast although I liked her Ave Maria.  It just breaks the flow of the program and the magic completely for me, maybe that's why I was so drawn to Yuzuru, he's the antithesis of this after all. 

I like Cha JunHwan as a skater, but not much as a jumper. His 3A technique makes me screech

I watched Stephen Gogolev theses days after hearing much about him and he actually was according to my expectations. He really has the potential to be great but we'll have to wait, a lot can happen, and by that I mean a lot.  I saw Shun Shato for the first time just now, hard to even judge their personality when they're so young, but Stephen stands out more for me for having more of an attack. But Shun also has the potential to be a good skater. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lambari said:

 

I agree about the current state of junior men, at least based on what I was watching 2016-2017.  Ladies has been overflowing with promise throughout these last couple of years, with each season a new one climb up in the ranks, regardless of who are your favourites. I believe, that the next generation of skaters finally have the potential  to be great. I'm absolutely in love with Alena Kostornaia. (I also like Rika Kihira!) I need to be prepared for the heartbreak if it comes, but everyone who follows junior ladies needs to. It's a though life for us (and them). I'm still sad that Anastasia Gubanova (my love!) isn't quite holding up partially due to the competitiveness of the russian field.  But let's be positive, Alena will have incredible programs in the future and will become a gorgeous Ladies champion in every sense of the word (!!). I'm aware she's not even 15 but I need to speak it into existence for my own sanity. Bear with me, I'm sitll in the honeymoon fase.

 

I do miss the longevity that earlier top ladies had up until Vancoucer and Sochi, or maybe I'm just nostalgic for Yuna/Mao and exagerating a bit for them. I probably am I actually don't have much against the current senior ladies but everything just somehow feels less magical, which is completely subjective of course, I understand that. I hope that Evgenia can stay longer and grow even more as a performer. We can all say that she was dominant, for 2 years, whether someone agrees or no with her scores. She has the potential to be around longer at the top, but she needs to hold up against the new influx of russian ladies. I'm not a big fan of Alina's skating but I adore her as a person and she deserves to have a great career too!

 

About the junior men,  I don't know if it's just me impression but it seems that the number of great 3A jumpers are becoming much less, maybe because of the emphasis on the new quads.  I admit I'm not much updated with the junior men so everyone could give me a heads up I would appreciate a lot (this season I took a semi-break from skating for several reasons)  But the few that I've seen made me remember that my biggest pet peeve in skating are telegraphed jumps. (apart from half covered boots, oh god. I still believe that the crucial factor for my subconscious to start liking Evgenia was the fact that she ditched those boot covers for GOOD. Unfortunately. that's what it is. I'm shallow after all...Alina please be the next one). I guess that's probably why I've never been too much of a Kostner enthusiast although I liked her Ave Maria.  It just breaks the flow of the program and the magic completely for me, maybe that's why I was so drawn to Yuzuru, he's the antithesis of this after all. 

I like Cha JunHwan as a skater, but not much as a jumper. His 3A technique makes me screech

I watched Stephen Gogolev theses days after hearing much about him and he actually was according to my expectations. He really has the potential to be great but we'll have to wait, a lot can happen, and by that I mean a lot.  I saw Shun Shato for the first time just now, hard to even judge their personality when they're so young, but Stephen stands out more for me for having more of an attack. But Shun also has the potential to be a good skater. 

 

 

 

gosh, those half-covered boots, how I hate them too:P

And I love Alena K. too, whenever I read people criticizing backloaded program I always feel annoyed on her behalf because she is actually a skater who can make a backloaded program look very beautiful and complete and balanced...and her InaBauer is so awesome)

back to the serious stuff, you know who doesn't telegraph some of his jumps? The italian junior Daniel Grassrl.

He is a few months younger than Jun Hwan and he has landed 4Lz (tho I can't say anything about his technique, I haven't paid attention...:P), he is very unpolished and he has tons to improve in ss, but I rememeber he made me enjoy his performance and he has some nice spins:) and he looks like Stephen Gogolev's older brother :laughing:

Also, apparently he is coached by Lorenzo Magri, who I think might be the very man who predicted our young Romeo would make ISU change rules...

 

please, skating gods, send Daniel to Brian :smiley-angelic001: I think he's the type of skater who could improve a lot there... and as a bonus, it would make for a new legendary rivalry for the dark times ahead after yuzu's r***...  a skater from "small fed"(Italy instead of Spain, tho Italy has a big skating tradition) training alongside a skater who is his country's superstar (JunHwan), then in a few more years we can add skater from big fed (Stephen). I'm already liking this scenario a lot!:4chsmu1:

Tho of course as long as Yuzu keeps competing I'll always root for him first an foremost..sorry you other talented guys, there is only one zuzu in my skating fan heart and you can't have his place:tumblr_inline_mzx8zzarLt1r8msi5::tumblr_inline_mm2wbaeqQM1qz4rgp::tumblr_m9gct8HYvv1qzckow:

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2 hours ago, LadyLou said:

gosh, those half-covered boots, how I hate them too:P

And I love Alena K. too, whenever I read people criticizing backloaded program I always feel annoyed on her behalf because she is actually a skater who can make a backloaded program look very beautiful and complete and balanced...and her InaBauer is so awesome)

back to the serious stuff, you know who doesn't telegraph some of his jumps? The italian junior Daniel Grassrl.

He is a few months younger than Jun Hwan and he has landed 4Lz (tho I can't say anything about his technique, I haven't paid attention...:P), he is very unpolished and he has tons to improve in ss, but I rememeber he made me enjoy his performance and he has some nice spins:) and he looks like Stephen Gogolev's older brother :laughing:

Also, apparently he is coached by Lorenzo Magri, who I think might be the very man who predicted our young Romeo would make ISU change rules...

 

please, skating gods, send Daniel to Brian :smiley-angelic001: I think he's the type of skater who could improve a lot there... and as a bonus, it would make for a new legendary rivalry for the dark times ahead after yuzu's r***...  a skater from "small fed"(Italy instead of Spain, tho Italy has a big skating tradition) training alongside a skater who is his country's superstar (JunHwan), then in a few more years we can add skater from big fed (Stephen). I'm already liking this scenario a lot!:4chsmu1:

Tho of course as long as Yuzu keeps competing I'll always root for him first an foremost..sorry you other talented guys, there is only one zuzu in my skating fan heart and you can't have his place:tumblr_inline_mzx8zzarLt1r8msi5::tumblr_inline_mm2wbaeqQM1qz4rgp::tumblr_m9gct8HYvv1qzckow:

 

 

Thanks for recommendating him, I've never heard of Daniel Grassl before! I watched his Cirque du Soleil and Charlie Chaplin and tried to be objective because he has the type of programs/style that isn't my favourite in skating to be honest! I'm not a fan of 'old school' or comedic/jazzy in men's skating (only if it's classical, for example Masquerade Waltz). I'm more of a fan of lyrical, dramatic or the ones that try to incorporate modern dance. It depends though, a bit of fun is great too, like Boyangman!  But Daniel seems like a sweetheart though. He isn't a good axel jumper either, and he muscles most of his jumps, but he indeed does not telegraph. I agree about his skating skills, and especially it's noticeable his lack of speed .  He seems quite tall so i was surprised when I came back to check and his age and found out that he is 15 (somehow I didn't pay attention to when you talked  about his age!), so he actually has a bit more time to work on these. Giving that he probably doesn't have access to some of the best coaches and facilities, I hope he will have maybe some guidance  from other coaches as well. I still think that Orser's greatest triumph in coaching, even after having Yuzuru and Yuna was Javier Fernandez.  Both Yuna and Yuzuru had the star quality, jump technique and  some of that champion mentality prior to going to Orser (it actually scares me a bit how they had somewhat similar careers up until now if we see the numbers), however, Javier was a less obvious choice and clearly had problems focusing before. His skating skills also improved a lot at TCC compared to before. So it would be interesting to see  what an accomplished coach could polish him, if Daniel is willing and has the means to work on it. He actually reminds me be a bit of an underdeveloped Michael Martinez. They skate different program styles, but I can see it a bit in the way they stroke.  But Michael still had at that point better spins and SS. A bit bummed at how it turned out for him skating wise, but I guess he's still  happy now. 

Do you have a clip of Daniel's quad lutz? I can't find it. 

One skater that I hope that can pull up is Deniss Vasiljevs. I admit I wasn't too interested in his programs these couple of years, but I thought his Lion King EX was was actually nice. I think I still hold on to him a bit because of when I first saw him, I was hypnotized! He was just wonderful and his arms were everything. Great that he's now happy working with Lambiel. The odds are that he maybe will be a middle tier skater giving the technnical demands of the current field, but as long as he keeps working and improving in his own pace that's great too. 

 

Edit: Updated the young Deniss link that I msessed up.

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1 minute ago, ClarissaH said:

To kind of continue with this, I don't think raising the possible PCS score from 100 to 150, or any kind of increase, will really help in any way. PCS scores have already proven how subjective they are with the jumps of scores skaters like Alina Zagitova have gotten with the same programs after having won a major competition. In the end, such increase would benefit skaters with an established reputation, such as Hanyu, Brown, and Rippon, and bite new competitors in the ass. 

 

 

 

I wnt figure skating to reward the total package much more than jumping beans so I wnt them to reward artistic skaters much more than current. I dnt wnt jumping beans like boyang and nathan chen dominating figure skating because it becomes a jumping competition. No offence to boyang and Nathan but the current system is laid out so that they can win if all their jumps are clean. Even a clean hanyu cnt win natham if he executes 6 clean quads in the free program. The BV of quads is too high. Rather than lowering BV of quads, i wnt higher points from PCS so that artistic and total packaged skaters like Hanyu can benefit. 

And I wnt a higher BV for quad axel becuz it is nearly impossible haha

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