General Skating Chat

[hoodie axel]

17 hours ago, cinemacoconut said:

I guess it makes the sport less quad jump centred

It doesn't, though. It makes it more quad based, as now there will be focus on landing the quads perfectly to get more points with fewer jumps => more set-up time => less "artistry". They lost the 30s to breathe between elements. If they'd kept the 30s, then it would have made it less quad jump centred, as they would have had more time to breathe between the quads. 

[OonsieHui]

10 hours ago, swanbeau said:

now though, the question is, what do you think should be equal to spin lv 4? because i think it starts off mostly right, lvl b spin getting only 1 point... i mean i certainly dont think lvl b spin deserves to be in equal to double jumps. maybe it's the increment that should be higher

 

It's really a headache. How do you give marks according to difficulty, (hence duh quads are worth much more than triples, and level 4 spins etc) but also push the agenda of a complete skater and push for a greater emphasis on spins, stsq, chsq?

 

Just throwing this out there for the thoughts of much more experienced satellites. May sound like a completely ludicrous suggestion. 

 

What if a level 4 spin was equal to a triple loop? Would that be very unacceptable given the difficulty difference? But it's not like getting a level 4 spin is a walk in the park either.... was just wondering, if you set the highest possible marks for each non-jump element as at least equal to a higher level triple, and you make it so a poorly executed quad is worth less then an EXTREMELY great spin/ stsq etc, do you guys think it would help or hurt? Is it even fair? 

 

[Sammie]

 

[singermelodie1]

2 minutes ago, Sammie said:

 

I don't agree with that and technically it's if you turn 16 in the season. That's before July 1st.

I feel that many people don't like it when they're not winning but if they were from their country, they wouldn't be against the rules.

How many Japanese and internationalfans cried for it to change when mao couldn't qualify for the Olympics? But when it's someone who is not their favorite, it's an issue.

And I don't even think it's competing against children because girls can go through puberty at different rate. Tuktamysheva looked way mature at 15 than many ladies who were years older than her. While someone like satoko can still look like a kid at 20.

[sallycinnamon]

Agenda of the ISU Congress has been published in the latest ISU Communication with all the proposals included.

 

[Old Cat Lady]

I personally think they should just abolish the age restriction.  Most of the pounding on the body happens during the practices so all it does is take away opportunity.  This is sport - restricting athletes from competing for not being womanly enough is ridiculous

[Sammie]

20 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

Agenda of the ISU Congress has been published in the latest ISU Communication with all the proposals included.

 

I’m just reading all the rants on twt 

[Katt]

32 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

Agenda of the ISU Congress has been published in the latest ISU Communication with all the proposals included.

 

A few interesting proposals :

 

-  Canada : last4 jumps in 2nd half count in FS as bonus, and last 2 for SP. Japan : last 3 for FS and last one for SP 

- Bonus for clean FS with 6 types of jumps (triple and quad) ( Japan)

- No more step require before solo jump in SP as it already count in GOE 

- No repeat any type of quad (triples are ok) because of variety and giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps

- Increase PCS factor for men : 1.2 for SP and 2.4 for Fs to bring back the balance between TES and PCS

- No more compulsory deduction for fall as it should reflact in Pcs

So they want more variety and artistry but create more rules in reality 

[Ferrer]

They should just divide the competitions into the jumping/girlish and the artistry/womanish.. Because girls mature at different age across the globe... Not like it's possible.. 

[singermelodie1]

3 minutes ago, Katt said:

A few interesting proposals :

 

-  Canada : last4 jumps in 2nd half count in FS as bonus, and last 2 for SP. Japan : last 3 for FS and last one for SP 

- Bonus for clean FS with 6 types of jumps (triple and quad) ( Japan)

- No more step require before solo jump in SP as it already count in GOE 

- No repeat any type of quad (triples are ok) because of variety and giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps

- Increase PCS factor for men : 1.2 for SP and 2.4 for Fs to bring back the balance between TES and PCS

- No more compulsory deduction for fall as it should reflact in Pcs

So they want more variety and artistry but create more rules in reality 

All the programs are gonna look the same which is why I'm not against backloading, if it fits the songs. If it doesn't, penalize it in the component score.

Why no deduction for falls? And bonus for clean programs? Shouldn't that already be the goal to have a clean program?

[Katt]

5 minutes ago, singermelodie1 said:

All the programs are gonna look the same which is why I'm not against backloading, if it fits the songs. If it doesn't, penalize it in the component score.

Why no deduction for falls? And bonus for clean programs? Shouldn't that already be the goal to have a clean program?

Yeah I can imagine most programs will be the same : jump jump jump spin step jump jump jump jump step spin spin  

Why they complain about quad and the lack of artistry and variety but encouraging more type of quad and creating more rules in reality ????

[Ferrer]

9 minutes ago, singermelodie1 said:

All the programs are gonna look the same which is why I'm not against backloading, if it fits the songs. If it doesn't, penalize it in the component score.

Why no deduction for falls? And bonus for clean programs? Shouldn't that already be the goal to have a clean program?

 

Which is why the artistry will be the difference if the jump layouts are similar, it will show which programs and skaters are better I think? Not sure either. The deduction for falls will be implemented in PCS, hence it's impossible to win like what Patrick did in the past. Falls = low component score. Bonus for clean programs is a joke for me, though. I think this one is for holding back the quads revolution. Must be tough to be a judge.. 

[yuzuangel]

2 hours ago, singermelodie1 said:

I don't agree with that and technically it's if you turn 16 in the season. That's before July 1st.

I feel that many people don't like it when they're not winning but if they were from their country, they wouldn't be against the rules.

How many Japanese and internationalfans cried for it to change when mao couldn't qualify for the Olympics? But when it's someone who is not their favorite, it's an issue.

And I don't even think it's competing against children because girls can go through puberty at different rate. Tuktamysheva looked way mature at 15 than many ladies who were years older than her. While someone like satoko can still look like a kid at 20.

I think it can be a good thing.

For example, in gymnastics, you have to turn 16 to compete in seniors by Jan 1 of that year. It used to be 14, then 15, so a little bit similar to what we have now in figure skating. And when they changed it to 16, suddenly there are women who are competing will into their 20's and go to multiple Olympics. The winners are still pretty young but the longevity of gymnasts' careers increased by a lot. So to many people it was a very healthy change. If we could see this in figure skating, then that may be a positive change...

[robin]

sigh idk how to feel about raising the PCS factor to 1.2 and 2.4 for men or, in general, giving PCS more weight in final scores. I do want the PCS to weigh equal to TES but only in a world where PCS is judged correctly or is at least just as succeptible to bias as TES. But I guess TES is also nearing the level of succeptibility to bias that PCS has with the BV of jumps lower and GOE ranges higher now.

 

sigh.

[ICeleste]

Hace 1 hora, Katt said:

A few interesting proposals :

 

-  Canada : last4 jumps in 2nd half count in FS as bonus, and last 2 for SP. Japan : last 3 for FS and last one for SP 

- Bonus for clean FS with 6 types of jumps (triple and quad) ( Japan)

- No more step require before solo jump in SP as it already count in GOE 

- No repeat any type of quad (triples are ok) because of variety and giving credit to skaters that can perform all types of quad jumps

- No more compulsory deduction for fall as it should reflact in Pcs

They want skaters to try all types of quads, but would it be worth trying if falls are penalized extra harshly with -5 GOE, PCs deduction and loss of the supposed bonus for skating clean?
What's the logic in allowing the ladies to repeat triples but not the men to repeat quads besides pushing a certain male American skater? Those who can do the most difficult quads are already rewarded in BV (which they plan to decrease for some reason?)
These proposals are so unnecessary and contradictory...
Why can't they fix actual issues like skaters getting away with severe prerrotation?

Also, this might be an unpopular opinion but I don't get the opposion to the backloading bonus for all jumping passes. Alina might not be the best performer but the second half of her DQ LP is one of the most exciting and impressive figure skating performances I've ever watched. Although her musicality could be better, I find that program well choreographed because every jump is set to match the music. And even if it didn't match the music, that should be penalized in the composition score, not in the TES.
You may argue that she can't sell the first half of the program well, but that should be reflected in her performance components. Forcing her to execute jumps in the first half is not the solution- it will not motivate her to improve and polish her skating, especially if she's already receiving high PCs. 
Backloading is very difficult and technically amazing so I don't get why it should be discouraged.