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[2020] 4CC (04-09.02) - Men Short Program

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5 hours ago, LadyLou said:

 

yeah, but Yuzuru probably didn't have all the info we at home had

OT

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(tbh the one thing I dislike attending comp live is that you have no way to see tes box and have a vague idea of what kind of score will pop up... Nate's SP socre was a big shock in Turin, I expected it around what he got in Saitama because it wasn't really so much better than that, and that 107 had been at WC after Yuzu hadn't been clean, plus it had already been a very generous score. Instead the FS score was kinda expected, after the SP it was crystal clear how ISU was hell-bent on re-enacting Barcellona15, maybe in the hope they could finally shift the love away from the "old" star. My own petty satisfaction is that the crowd didn't react exactly with the same delirious joy :P)

 

 

And we were all so stunned with disbelief at how low Yuzu's score was. You could feel how appalled everyone was on Yuzu's behalf.

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3 minutes ago, rubyblue said:

Exactly, as Romain Haguenauer said - who will get hurt by that? those who can possibly get 10s. IMO (although I know that many of you will dissagee ) P/C deserve those 10s if many other teams get around 9.5 PCS. I would give them 11. The same with Yuzu - if others get 9s, he deserves at least those 10s when he skates like yesterday (altough even 12 would not make a justice). So if there's a message for judges - not to throw 10s, the skaters, who already hit the PCS roof are hurt even more, because you can't push them any further, while you can do that with others. E.g. you see skater improved, and he/she/they was getting 8.5 last season, you go for 9. But then you see skaters like Yuzu or P/C  (who are high 9 or even 10) not skating his/their super very best (you saw them doing better before) - you also give 9. Does it mean they are on the same PCS level? Not exactly. The roof hurts the very best. Frozing the roof hurts them even more.

God, no. There is no doubt that P/C are one of the very best if not the best ice dance team in the world right now, but they not reached the mastery in their discipline the way Yuzuru did.

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IIRC Yuzuru is a bit of a P/C fan - wasn’t there a competition where he went to watch them practice?

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47 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Look what PCS P/C were gettig until euros. When last time Yuzuru was scored like that? Boston SP?

 

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1920/gpf1920/FSKXICEDANCE----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/wc2019/data0405.pdf

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1819/wc2019/data0403.pdf

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/wc2018/wc2018_IceDa

 

They got FORTY SIX 10s in total at WC 19. I'm honestly not surprised that someone told judges to calm down.

I personally think they deserve it but that is not the point I was trying to make. What I meant was that those kind of caps on scores only apply to specific skaters while others get free candies. Currently, only Yuzu and P/C get 10 or close to it regularly in PC so any message to the judges not to give 10 is targeting them specifically, and that is unfair and unethical.

Even if there is not ill intention behind it and they only wanted to stop the judges from over rewarding skaters or abusing the system it is still wrong to target specific skaters like that. If they are going to put a PC cap or a penalty, it should be a defined clear deduction that is applied to all skaters whether they usually score 10 or 2. 

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43 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

IIRC Yuzuru is a bit of a P/C fan - wasn’t there a competition where he went to watch them practice?

worlds 2017 free dance practice

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1 hour ago, Neenah said:

I personally think they deserve it but that is not the point I was trying to make. What I meant was that those kind of caps on scores only apply to specific skaters while others get free candies. Currently, only Yuzu and P/C get 10 or close to it regularly in PC so any message to the judges not to give 10 is targeting them specifically, and that is unfair and unethical.

Even if there is not ill intention behind it and they only wanted to stop the judges from over rewarding skaters or abusing the system it is still wrong to target specific skaters like that. If they are going to put a PC cap or a penalty, it should be a defined clear deduction that is applied to all skaters whether they usually score 10 or 2. 

Ahhh, I think that's the difference? That imo P/C were overscored af. Still are, but that's already problem with whole discipline. P/C still got many 10s at euros (ten or so). The differece is that it isn't forty six anymore.

Honestly, I don't think Yuzuru got capped here. He got five 10s and (Skate Canada (six) aside) this is the best result since Olympics.

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44 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Ahhh, I think that's the difference? That imo P/C were overscored af. Still are, but that's already problem with whole discipline. P/C still got many 10s at euros (ten or so). The differece is that it isn't forty six anymore.

Honestly, I don't think Yuzuru got capped here. He got five 10s and (Skate Canada (six) aside) this is the best result since Olympics.

 

All the judges gave him 9.5 in TR. ALL pf them. Every element is connected to the one before and after. There is no reason not to give him 10. That's being capped.

Same thing about Composition and Interpretation. That program was peefect.

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5 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

All the judges gave him 9.5 in TR. ALL pf them. Every element is connected to the one before and after. There is no reason not to give him 10. That's being capped.

Same thing about Composition and Interpretation. That program was peefect.

So let's look at his TR score in SP since Olympics:

GPF - 9.36

NHK - 9.5

SkCa - 9.5

CoR - 9.46

GP Fin - 9.39

And do you know what he got at Olympics? 9.46

This 9.5 across the board probably is just an accident.

If anything, he is held to higher standard than his competitors. But that's not new.

 

Tbh, I expected that he will get 47 agaaaain, so for me 48.4 is a nice surprise. The biggest problem is with GOE anyway.

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6 minutes ago, Paskud said:

 

If anything, he is held to higher standard than his competitors. But that's not new.

 

 Well that's fucked up and a problem. People that skate nowhere near his quality and artistry (wont name names) get similar scores and then? Whats the point, then? They dont want Yuzu to be too much ahead, they want him reachable when he really isn't.

But at least we know it, and people that are serious know it. It is still sad for him with all the work he puts in.

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33 minutes ago, Paskud said:

So let's look at his TR score in SP since Olympics:

GPF - 9.36

NHK - 9.5

SkCa - 9.5

CoR - 9.46

GP Fin - 9.39

And do you know what he got at Olympics? 9.46

This 9.5 across the board probably is just an accident.

If anything, he is held to higher standard than his competitors. But that's not new.

 

Tbh, I expected that he will get 47 agaaaain, so for me 48.4 is a nice surprise. The biggest problem is with GOE anyway.

 

I think both PCS and Goes are a problem. In any case, proving that he is always underscored isn't proof that he was not underscored this time around, quite the opposite. He is systemically underscored.

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3 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I think both PCS and Goes are a problem. In any case, proving that he is always underscored isn't proof that he was not underscored this time around, quite the opposite. He is systemically underscored.

Yes, but people here argued that at 4cc is supposed cap to not give 10s - the way it was allegedly at euros. And I don't think so.

 

EDIT: Uh, come on! I'm the first one to scream that Zu got robbed of this or that gold medal. I just don't think that (deservedly or not) in last two years there was any change in his PCS on paper. And the GOE is a place where the most under/overscoring happens anyway. After all this is a scoring system, that puts most weight on GOE.

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10 hours ago, MatchaBeans said:

Y: (looks down at Pooh and sighs) They don't want me, hahaha. (Brian looks to Yuzu nervously)

I was listening sooo many times, trying to hear something else, like "they don't worry me".. (when he's clearly so worried), but no matter how hard I try, I still hear "They don't want me"... and it brakes my heart... Whether he means "they want me out" or "they don't want me to get a WR", in any case this is a testimony of what isu did to this precious genious boy.. heartache.. whishing with all my might he succedss in this battle & it'll bring him satisfaction & happiness 🙏😭❤ still want to believe in magic... 🙏💜

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4 hours ago, Paskud said:

If anything, he is held to higher standard than his competitors.

And that is the problem. The instant they hold one skater to a higher standard or expect more out of that skater than other skaters, the system falls apart. Because now it is no longer objective (or as objective as possible), it is based on the judges’ own expectations and desires, and those can be easily warped by personal opinions or private agendas.  Suddenly, a phenomenal skater who is beyond pretty much all his competitors can be reduced to the same level as those competitors by a judge wanting him to do more even though he’s already doing more than everyone else.

 

ALL skaters need to be treated the same, whether they are a two-time Olympic champion or a skater who has never won a medal at this level.

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