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6 hours ago, Melodie said:

Time to make the trip down the memory lane, starting with “what is a quint? it's just a quad with one more rotation" :) 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

huh? so are we gonna see 5T before 4A? lol

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3 hours ago, SuzyQ said:

It seems Sendai local TV will air a program about Yuzuru and some other athletes tomorrow.

Please someone upload it later :snonegai:

 

 

 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

will it be on youtube?

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14 hours ago, makebelieveup said:

I like Jesse, who is obviously holding a Hanyu flag throughout his videos. I enjoy his passion and gushing over Yuzu. here I dont necessarily agree with most of what he said about the rus nats event but im not going to get into that. but regarding what he said about Yuzu here, i also dont agree with. I dont like the assumption that Yuzu is doing less skating skills because he isnt getting rewarded for it and that Nathan isnt doing either and got rewarded. (the youtubers probably meant choreo/transitions) this is just not the essence of his skating at all. He would never want to win that way (and he would never get rewarded that way either). I think TenChi was a good program where he has a lot more breathing room than origin. It was a big jump and because it was preceded by Origin, the contrast was even more glaring. But I think the program itself isnt empty not even by his standards and def not empty by the rest standards. Some might be seeing jam packed nonsensical transitions from danil's choreo and see that as the standard. No that is not the standard and should not. The standard should always be a balanced program with intentional and valuable transitions and choreo, which have been found throughout all of Yuzu's programs. With TenChi I'd say its not its final craft but nowhere near lacking either. In fact, it is one of his most, if not his most complete first pancake. He was not doing ten thousand choreos or movements because that isnt how the music should be interpreted. Having more breathing room and where he planted each jump are all part of a good composition to match the music.  I think without following Yuzu and understanding he will never be complacent with his own craft, ppl may easily think this is a "watered down" program. Saying Yuzu is doing exactly what Nathan is doing now even if I know Jesse meant well and in favor of yuzu is still just plain wrong..Really? 

I don’t get it either. I don’t think there is a lack of transitions, given how few crossovers he used. It is more complex and filled than Origin IMO. Maybe its pacing gives Jesse that illusion? IMO the jump contents was the watered down, not the TR or SS, but all of these will be improved and upgraded from where they are now.

 

PS: can someone make a video analyzing the technical aspect of Ten to Chi to?, like steps, turns, TR, etc.

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14 時間前, makebelieveupさんが言いました:

I like Jesse, who is obviously holding a Hanyu flag throughout his videos. I enjoy his passion and gushing over Yuzu. here I dont necessarily agree with most of what he said about the rus nats event but im not going to get into that. but regarding what he said about Yuzu here, i also dont agree with. I dont like the assumption that Yuzu is doing less skating skills because he isnt getting rewarded for it and that Nathan isnt doing either and got rewarded. (the youtubers probably meant choreo/transitions) this is just not the essence of his skating at all. He would never want to win that way (and he would never get rewarded that way either). I think TenChi was a good program where he has a lot more breathing room than origin. It was a big jump and because it was preceded by Origin, the contrast was even more glaring. But I think the program itself isnt empty not even by his standards and def not empty by the rest standards. Some might be seeing jam packed nonsensical transitions from danil's choreo and see that as the standard. No that is not the standard and should not. The standard should always be a balanced program with intentional and valuable transitions and choreo, which have been found throughout all of Yuzu's programs. With TenChi I'd say its not its final craft but nowhere near lacking either. In fact, it is one of his most, if not his most complete first pancake. He was not doing ten thousand choreos or movements because that isnt how the music should be interpreted. Having more breathing room and where he planted each jump are all part of a good composition to match the music.  I think without following Yuzu and understanding he will never be complacent with his own craft, ppl may easily think this is a "watered down" program. Saying Yuzu is doing exactly what Nathan is doing now even if I know Jesse meant well and in favor of yuzu is still just plain wrong..Really? 

 

19 分, Melodieさんが言いました:

I don’t get it either. I don’t think there is a lack of transitions, given how few crossovers he used. It is more complex and filled than Origin IMO. Maybe its pacing gives Jesse that illusion? IMO the jump contents was the watered down, not the TR or SS, but all of these will be improved and upgraded from where they are now.

 

PS: can someone make a video analyzing the technical aspect of Ten to Chi to?, like steps, turns, TR, etc.

 

Maybe it is because TenChi has fewer catchy poses than Seimei and Origin. The music is more nuanced at the end too. When I first watched it, I expected a Seimei-like climactic music ending and was surprised. However, the more I watch it, the more I love it as I can pick up more nuances in the choreography.

 

Besides, we are comparing a first pancake to the programs that he has skated and refined for multiple times. I am excited to see the evolution of TenChi in the future.

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You gotta laugh... the Olympic Channel decided to tweet a 'Who's your favourite?' for Bobblehead (???) Day and to no one's surprise (including, no doubt theirs), guess who was runaway winner yet again.....

 

 

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Sorry that this post is so extremely long, but I couldn't shorten it :dontdothistome:

 

First of all, to call a program with four quads and two triple Axels 'watered down' is... a choice. Especially in case of a first pancake.

Sure, Yuzu didn't jump any Lutzes or Flips this time, but his base value was not that much higher at SC last year. 2-3 points difference at best.

  1. He clearly didn't need a higher base value to win JNats.
  2. He needed a clean free again to boost his PCS (his last one was in 2017) and this layout was ideal to do it.
  3. Everyone who thinks that Yuzu will not up his BV in future competitions, is a moron.

 

On 1/8/2021 at 5:27 PM, makebelieveup said:

The standard should always be a balanced program with intentional and valuable transitions and choreo, which have been found throughout all of Yuzu's programs. With TenChi I'd say its not its final craft but nowhere near lacking either. In fact, it is one of his most, if not his most complete first pancake.

He was not doing ten thousand choreos or movements because that isnt how the music should be interpreted. Having more breathing room and where he planted each jump are all part of a good composition to match the music.

 

Very big yes to that. Having many difficult steps and turns alone doesn't make your transition work good. Their effective and logical distribution, quality of execution and matching with the music are equally important.

Same goes for skating skills: Having high average and top speed are just two of many quality criteria. You also need very good acceleration and dynamics in speed, multidirectional skating, clean edges, as much one-foot skating as possible, excellent balance and control of movements and much more.

 

A big issue is: People tend to think that skating quality increases proportionally with the tempo of the music. This is downright wrong. Fast music and fast skating are two completely different things. Yuzu has probably more speed in Notte Stellata than some skaters would have while skating to Origin.

My general perception is: The faster the pacing of the music is, the sloppier tends to be the quality of edges and execution of single transitions. Some skaters even choose fast paced music on purpose to cover their poor skating quality.

 

I think, Notte Stellata is the slowest music piece Yuzu has ever skated to, but his performance in PyeongChang was probably one of his best in terms of skating skills and transitioning. Excellent body control, very clean edges and beautiful long gliding sections on one foot. That circle at the beginning or the accelerating twizzle with 10 rotations are just two of many indicators of how strong his skating skills are.

 

H&E might not be as polished as some of his other programs yet, but the skating quality is definitely there and I disagree with the statement that his skating skills have degressed compared to Origin. They didn't, it's the pacing and intensity of the music piece that has changed in the first place.

 

 

Quote

I think without following Yuzu and understanding he will never be complacent with his own craft, ppl may easily think this is a "watered down" program.

Saying Yuzu is doing exactly what Nathan is doing now even if I know Jesse meant well and in favor of yuzu is still just plain wrong..Really? 

 

In a way, Yuzu is now indeed doing what Nathan has been doing all the time: making ideal use of his energy resources and not wasting them for things that don't get rewarded, which is - honestly speaking - very clever and the key to success in this system.

 

A figure skating program has basically three components that are all energy consuming to some extent:

  1. Jumping (and spinning)
  2. Raw skating
  3. Performing

I can be competely wrong here, but my personal impression is:

Nathan's general energy distribution is roughly like: 70% jumping - 15% skating - 15% performing.

While Yuzu's distribution in Origin was like: 40% jumping - 20% skating - 40% performing.

In H&E the (physical) distribution has changed: 60% jumping - 25% skating - 15% performing.

 

The real cleverness of the H&E choreo is that Yuzu's performance and investment into the music is not less, just more cognitive and intellectual than physical. That gives him a lot of breathing room and additional resources for jumping and skating.

 

I do believe that dramatic music pieces like R&J1, Origin or Masquerade are the real "energy devourers" in figure skating. Remember R&J1 at CiONTU or Masquerade with Origin encore at FaOI in Toyama? Yuzu barely jumped, but almost spat his heart out after those performances. As if he was skating for his life.

Emotional intensity and passion can completely suck out your power before you have done a single jump. I think, this is what happened in Origin. That starting pose alone must have been exhausting and uncomfortable as hell. It was a suicidal program and unskatable with 5 or 6 quads.

 

 

This is my current impression of the situation. Please feel free to correct me, if my post is nonsense.

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So according to this, Yuzu did enlist Yano-san for help with the music arrangement. Maybe for fine-tuning this time (esp. with the FP)?

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].
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9 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

Sorry that this post is so extremely long, but I couldn't shorten it :dontdothistome:

 

First of all, to call a program with four quads and two triple Axels 'watered down' is... a choice. Especially in case of a first pancake.

Sure, Yuzu didn't jump any Lutzes or Flips this time, but his base value was not that much higher at SC last year. 2-3 points difference at best.

  1. He clearly didn't need a higher base value to win JNats.
  2. He needed a clean free again to boost his PCS (his last one was in 2017) and this layout was ideal to do it.
  3. Everyone who thinks that Yuzu will not up his BV in future competitions, is a moron.

Very big yes to that. Having many difficult steps and turns alone doesn't make your transition work good. Their effective and logical distribution, quality of execution and matching with the music are equally important.

Same goes for skating skills: Having high average and top speed are just two of many quality criteria. You also need very good acceleration and dynamics in speed, multidirectional skating, clean edges, as much one-foot skating as possible, excellent balance and control of movements and much more.

 

A big issue is: People tend to think that skating quality increases proportionally with the tempo of the music. This is downright wrong. Fast music and fast skating are two completely different things. Yuzu has probably more speed in Notte Stellata than some skaters would have while skating to Origin.

My general perception is: The faster the pacing of the music is, the sloppier tends to be the quality of edges and execution of single transitions. Some skaters even choose fast paced music on purpose to cover their poor skating quality.

 

I think, Notte Stellata is the slowest music piece Yuzu has ever skated to, but his performance in PyeongChang was probably one of his best in terms of skating skills and transitioning. Excellent body control, very clean edges and beautiful long gliding sections on one foot. That circle at the beginning or the accelerating twizzle with 10 rotations are just two of many indicators of how strong his skating skills are.

 

H&E might not be as polished as some of his other programs yet, but the skating quality is definitely there and I disagree with the statement that his skating skills have degressed compared to Origin. They didn't, it's the pacing and intensity of the music piece that has changed in the first place.

 

 

 

In a way, Yuzu is now indeed doing what Nathan has been doing all the time: making ideal use of his energy resources and not wasting them for things that don't get rewarded, which is - honestly speaking - very clever and the key to success in this system.

 

A figure skating program has basically three components that are all energy consuming to some extent:

  1. Jumping (and spinning)
  2. Raw skating
  3. Performing

I can be competely wrong here, but my personal impression is:

Nathan's general energy distribution is roughly like: 70% jumping - 15% skating - 15% performing.

While Yuzu's distribution in Origin was like: 40% jumping - 20% skating - 40% performing.

In H&E the (physical) distribution has changed: 60% jumping - 25% skating - 15% performing.

 

The real cleverness of the H&E choreo is that Yuzu's performance and investment into the music is not less, just more cognitive and intellectual than physical. That gives him a lot of breathing room and additional resources for jumping and skating.

 

I do believe that dramatic music pieces like R&J1, Origin or Masquerade are the real "energy devourers" in figure skating. Remember R&J1 at CiONTU or Masquerade with Origin encore at FaOI in Toyama? Yuzu barely jumped, but almost spat his heart out after those performances. As if he was skating for his life.

Emotional intensity and passion can completely suck out your power before you have done a single jump. I think, this is what happened in Origin. That starting pose alone must have been exhausting and uncomfortable as hell. It was a suicidal program and unskatable with 5 or 6 quads.

 

 

This is my current impression of the situation. Please feel free to correct me, if my post is nonsense.

Your post makes perfect sense :) 

 

I think I did say H&E (the first outing) was a watered down version in the jumping department, but only very slightly (without the Flip and Lutz) and that is according to Yuzu's standard. Upon thinking back, watering down may not be the rightest choice of words. Sorry if saying so makes you feel unease :( 

 

Surely when he intentionally left out both the Flip and Lutz (I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with that), his super brain (and literal calculator that he made) would have calculated to optimize the score. 

 

For sure, he will upgrade the technical aspect the next time he gets to show it in a competition. And I look forward to that. 

 

As for the SS, CO and TR of H&E, I completely agree with you. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Melodie said:

I think I did say H&E (the first outing) was a watered down version in the jumping department, but only very slightly (without the Flip and Lutz) and that is according to Yuzu's standard. Upon thinking back, watering down may not be the rightest choice of words. Sorry if saying so makes you feel unease :(

 

It's totally fine, I know what you all mean by saying 'watered down' content.

 

I just stopped using this term myself, because it doesn't feel appropriate. If Yuzu jumped 2 quads in the first half and the rest all triples, that would be 'watered down' in my book. But 4 quads including 4Lo and two backloaded 4T-combos is not exactly my understanding of 'watered down'.

 

Especially these eye rolling narratives like Yuzu has "given up on difficult jumps" made me avoid using this term for the time being.

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