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Hace 14 horas, quadaxelwin said:

 

I think judges marked Yuzu's PCS down because he did recycle his programs.

No. He always got higher PCs for 3x recycled Chopin than he ever did the seasons he debuted Otoñal and Let's go Crazy. Let's Go Crazy is the most difficult SP he's ever done in terms of transitions, his PE and IN were excellent, the composition of the choreography brilliant too, yet this program never got the PCs it deserved- even though it was never recycled.

(Even if it were true that judges were "marking him down for recycling", it'd still be completely unfair and against the rules)

Please stop blaming Yuzuru when he's clearly not at fault for how underscored he is. He doesn't have the right passport, that's the only explanation.

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I think this OP captures the way Yuzu sees figure skating community as a collaborative effort of all generations - the concept behind his Continues with Wings Ci: "Yuzuru’s vision of excellence is so generous. It’s not just ‘I will succeed’ but ‘let’s all make our mark together’. His personal dreams and ambitions are intertwined with motivating and empowering others, especially the next generation."   

 

Please read through the full thread.

 

 

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So I was watching TSL (yes, I know they are terrible) but Dave was insinuating that Yuzu “chose” Ghislain over Brian to come as a coach. Is this true? I thought Brian had a prior commitment so Ghislain came instead. If he did chose him over Brian, I do find that concerning.

 

also, I got really mad at Jonathan for implying that Yuzu sat alone so he could make an excuse as to why he did bad. Yuzu never makes excuses for his performance, if anything, he blames himself too much.

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45 minutes ago, SylessJinx said:

So I was watching TSL (yes, I know they are terrible) but Dave was insinuating that Yuzu “chose” Ghislain over Brian to come as a coach. Is this true? I thought Brian had a prior commitment so Ghislain came instead. If he did chose him over Brian, I do find that concerning.

Why?:scratch2:

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36 minutes ago, SylessJinx said:

So I was watching TSL (yes, I know they are terrible) but Dave was insinuating that Yuzu “chose” Ghislain over Brian to come as a coach. Is this true? I thought Brian had a prior commitment so Ghislain came instead. If he did chose him over Brian, I do find that concerning.

 

also, I got really mad at Jonathan for implying that Yuzu sat alone so he could make an excuse as to why he did bad. Yuzu never makes excuses for his performance, if anything, he blames himself too much.

 

I ignore the comments by T*L and would not want to give it more oxygen to spread negativity.  They delight in their own little echo chamber of gossips and for years they have been promoting the fanfiction of rivalry between Borser and GB and vying for the lovely hand of prince charming.  The moment I heard that Ghislain was going to be with Yuzu, I had no doubt this was the story these gossip-mongers were going to delight in exploiting. On this, I don't take any delight in being proven right. 

 

The most admirable aspect of TCC is the culture of collaboration, respect and teamwork established by Brian and Tracy. Brian runs the place like a team coordinator and team cheer leader and not like a jealous and dictatorial CEO.  The notion of a single, charismatic and impossibly talented leader solving all the problems of the company is one of the most ridiculous lies spread by modern business schools (I've been through rounds of H*rv*rd B School Exec Training courses and had to unlearn many of those things later in my life - when I actually had to manage multi-cultural teams).  In this way, TCC culture seems to be very much in alignment with that collaborative spirit that Yuzu has expressed  (see my previous comment) in so many different ways, and yet seems to fall on deaf ears when it comes to those who are only listening to the sound of their own ego voice echoing in that empty chamber...

 

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On 12/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, Kat said:

Skip to 8:00 and watch. Lasts until 8:15 or so..but yeah, he wasnt thrilled. He gave her an X to decline. Not like he was rude to her, but timing was poor.

 

 

On 12/7/2019 at 11:20 PM, Kat said:

Skip to 8:00 and watch. Lasts until 8:15 or so..but yeah, he wasnt thrilled. He gave her an X to decline. Not like he was rude to her, but timing was poor.

 

Bad news, already tried watching the video and it's not playable in my country (Canada)! Any other suggested videos? (P.S. NBC Sports you suck!) :(

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3 hours ago, ICeleste said:

No. He always got higher PCs for 3x recycled Chopin than he ever did the seasons he debuted Otoñal and Let's go Crazy. Let's Go Crazy is the most difficult SP he's ever done in terms of transitions, his PE and IN were excellent, the composition of the choreography brilliant too, yet this program never got the PCs it deserved- even though it was never recycled.

(Even if it were true that judges were "marking him down for recycling", it'd still be completely unfair and against the rules)

Please stop blaming Yuzuru when he's clearly not at fault for how underscored he is. He doesn't have the right passport, that's the only explanation.

 

 

When you have a rival who never repeats both their SP and FS programs, then recycling becomes more noticeable for the judges to find an excuse for underscoring someone. Nathan never recycled any of his programs at the senior stage. Even during juniors he only recycled 1 program. That is one of his only strength and advantage he has over Yuzu. He always brings something new to the table to surprise the judges with something they have never seen before. I already said it's unfair to mark someone down for recycling, but that may be the reality of the judging system. Even Philip Hersh said he's tired of seeing Otonal again. And although he's not a judge himself, he has enough connections in the figure skating world that includes prominent judges who may feel the same way. If someone is "tired, bored" of seeing the same program again, it does affect how they score the PCS. They might mark down the performance score, composition and interpretation score. It has a chance of affecting 3/5 aspects of the PCS scoring. Everyone knows recycling a program is a disadvantage compared to someone who always tries to bring new programs to the table. New programs are brought to bring a "wow factor" to the table, to give the judges something new, fresh and unexpected. I am a Fanyu myself but if Yuzu recycles both his programs next season, then it's even more likely that the judges will be bored of it and mark his PCS down even more. As for Chopin, I think Nathan's PCS was still over-scored even then, most likely because judges were finding an excuse to over-score Nathan and one of the excuses was: Nathan never recycles, at least not on the senior circuit. I know it's not fair, but I do understand it in a way. To be honest, even though I am a huge fan of Yuzu, I get less excited about seeing Otonal this year than last year. Last year I loved it, but this year, I just was sort of bored only because I already know the choreography and music too well.

 

I think Yuzu might be missing the point. I think he might not realize that Nathan is beating him because of these reasons.

 

1. Yes Nathan's nationality does give him a boost

2. Yes Nathan's BV is very high

 

3. And yes, it is highly likely Nathan is getting fluctuated PCS because both his programs are always new. And this is an advantage no matter how hard you try to deny it. Judges always love something new. But Yuzu does not seem to realize this. 

 

I'm not saying Yuzu would have won if he had 2 new programs this year.

I'm saying 2 new programs would not have given the judges any excuse to mark down Yuzu's PCS just for recycling them 

 

 

 

And even fans have limits. If Yuzu does repeat Origin and Otonal again next year, I will be disappointed, no matter how much I love Yuzu. I think he is the most artistic and musical figure skater ever, and to have him not be more versatile to show all the different sides of him with many different types of genres before he retires would be a shame and a little bit of a waste of his artistic talent. I think Yuzu's greatest strength is his genre versatility. He can express so many different types of genres in many different ways. Whereas Nathan can't (it's what I honestly think about Nathan's artistry. He has a limited versatility to express a wide variety of music genres). I think Yuzu should play with his strengths more often. He should show the judges he is a skater capable of bringing out and beautifully executing and expressing all different types of music; tango, classics, jazz, pop, ballad, rock and many more. He has to bring the discussion to the judging table that HE is the more musically gifted, and more musically versatile skater. That Yuzu is the skater that can suit a wide range of music and choreographic styles. He can't just rely on higher BV to win. To win, he has to play to not just one, but ALL his strengths and advantages over Nathan.

And that includes bringing new and exciting, never seen before fresh programs that blows the judges away.

 

With this sort of score manipulation, I believe he needs a masterpiece program that judges are not expecting, or have never seen something similar to. 
Just like how he brought Seimei in 2015. It blew the judges away because it was something (unusual music, unusual choreo) no skater had ever tried before. 

 

 

 

P.S. As for warhorses, that doesn't count I believe. A skater choosing a warhorse is not an excuse for marking down their PCS, because every skater can express a warhorse, for example Carmen in their own way etc. 

 

But when a skater repeats THEIR OWN same program, then it becomes a recycling disadvantage.

 

 

Why else do you think skaters in all disciplines try to bring new music and new programs every year, if not for PCS score boosting?

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16 hours ago, sweetwater said:

I am not sure how many Japanese fans you are following on twitter, but most of the negative comments I saw on the birthday cake given in the kiss and cry were mentioning only about the timing. I think many of fans in Japan at that moment were busy cheering for Yuzu and checking on-site reports instead of what anti said. This is not the first time I saw you asking to stop something because Japanese fans don't like it, or Japanese fans have different ideas, but if you agree with them, why don't you state it as your own opinion? You may be speaking for them out of kindness, but as a Japanese fan, I sometimes get baffled to see us being generalized and used in such context. Each fan on twitter has their own opinion and background and they chose how to voice it according to their point of view on their own responsibility, even though they might look alike. 

 

 

Sorry I saw this quote now. I did mention how Japanese fans were very upset at the timing of the birthday cake. 
The things that antis said was not the main point of the post, but an elaboration of the side effects of what happened as a result of Yuzu declining the cake from a little girl. I know some japanese antis twist everything Yuzu does and posts them on twitter, and some fans do screencap this and complain about it. I am sorry for translating everything they said on twitter. Sometimes I literally just translate the whole tweet. I will be a little more careful of what I translate, because what and how some JP fans feel may not be the general opinion. In general, they were very worried the whole video will be misread by the Japanese public too, because some people might view Yuzu declining a birthday cake from a little girl was "cold hearted" etc. 

 

And I translated the tweet of what might happen as a result of giving Yuzu the birthday cake at the wrong timing. I think we follow the similar fan base on twitter because on my timeline, there were many negative comments about the wrong timing to give the birthday cake too. Just like how you mentioned above in your post. 

 

I will take your post very seriously. 

Thanks for the feedback.

As for generalizing Japanese fans opinions, I only started posting about them because my whole timeline was a s**t show when fans were fighting over whether or not to sing Happy Birthday to Yuzu during Kiss and Cry. And my timeline at the time was a MESS, like scroll after scroll of japanese fans complaining, whining, subtweeting, worrying, being frustrated. I guess I did generalize they were rather collectively angry at the time in relation to this whole kiss and cry birthday surprise.

  

Thank you for your opinion. Next time, I will only say what I think the majority are saying, rather than include every little detail that some japanese fans are saying in regards to issues like this one. 

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1 hour ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

When you have a rival who never repeats both their SP and FS programs, then recycling becomes more noticeable for the judges to find an excuse for underscoring someone. Nathan never recycled any of his programs at the senior stage. Even during juniors he only recycled 1 program. That is one of his only strength and advantage he has over Yuzu. He always brings something new to the table to surprise the judges with something they have never seen before. I already said it's unfair to mark someone down for recycling, but that may be the reality of the judging system. Even Philip Hersh said he's tired of seeing Otonal again. And although he's not a judge himself, he has enough connections in the figure skating world that includes prominent judges who may feel the same way. If someone is "tired, bored" of seeing the same program again, it does affect how they score the PCS. They might mark down the performance score, composition and interpretation score. It has a chance of affecting 3/5 aspects of the PCS scoring. Everyone knows recycling a program is a disadvantage compared to someone who always tries to bring new programs to the table. New programs are brought to bring a "wow factor" to the table, to give the judges something new, fresh and unexpected. I am a Fanyu myself but if Yuzu recycles both his programs next season, then it's even more likely that the judges will be bored of it and mark his PCS down even more. As for Chopin, I think Nathan's PCS was still over-scored even then, most likely because judges were finding an excuse to over-score Nathan and one of the excuses was: Nathan never recycles, at least not on the senior circuit. I know it's not fair, but I do understand it in a way. To be honest, even though I am a huge fan of Yuzu, I get less excited about seeing Otonal this year than last year. Last year I loved it, but this year, I just was sort of bored only because I already know the choreography and music too well.

 

I think Yuzu might be missing the point. I think he might not realize that Nathan is beating him because of these reasons.

 

1. Yes Nathan's nationality does give him a boost

2. Yes Nathan's BV is very high

 

3. And yes, it is highly likely Nathan is getting fluctuated PCS because both his programs are always new. And this is an advantage no matter how hard you try to deny it. Judges always love something new. But Yuzu does not seem to realize this. 

 

I'm not saying Yuzu would have won if he had 2 new programs this year.

I'm saying 2 new programs would not have given the judges any excuse to mark down Yuzu's PCS just for recycling them 

 

 

 

And even fans have limits. If Yuzu does repeat Origin and Otonal again next year, I will be disappointed, no matter how much I love Yuzu. I think he is the most artistic and musical figure skater ever, and to have him not be more versatile to show all the different sides of him with many different types of genres before he retires would be a shame and a little bit of a waste of his artistic talent. I think Yuzu's greatest strength is his genre versatility. He can express so many different types of genres in many different ways. Whereas Nathan can't (it's what I honestly think about Nathan's artistry. He has a limited versatility to express a wide variety of music genres). I think Yuzu should play with his strengths more often. He should show the judges he is a skater capable of bringing out and beautifully executing and expressing all different types of music; tango, classics, jazz, pop, ballad, rock and many more. He has to bring the discussion to the judging table that HE is the more musically gifted, and more musically versatile skater. That Yuzu is the skater that can suit a wide range of music and choreographic styles. He can't just rely on higher BV to win. To win, he has to play to not just one, but ALL his strengths and advantages over Nathan.

And that includes bringing new and exciting, never seen before fresh programs that blows the judges away.

 

With this sort of score manipulation, I believe he needs a masterpiece program that judges are not expecting, or have never seen something similar to. 
Just like how he brought Seimei in 2015. It blew the judges away because it was something (unusual music, unusual choreo) no skater had ever tried before. 

 

You forgot a 4th one.  Consistency.  If you keep skating relatively clean your score will keep rising (SC vs NHK's SP crap notwithstanding).  Look at Kostornaia just this season. Med past seasons, Zag in Olympic season.  Yuzu has to deliver when it matters and do it all the time. 2 clean back to back programs are now a must and as much as I love him, we have to reach back to GPF 2015 for that.  It's a tall order, but if anybody CAN ultimately do it, it's him.  

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39 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

When you have a rival who never repeats both their SP and FS programs, then recycling becomes more noticeable for the judges to find an excuse for underscoring someone. Nathan never recycled any of his programs at the senior stage. Even during juniors he only recycled 1 program. That is one of his only strength and advantage he has over Yuzu. He always brings something new to the table to surprise the judges with something they have never seen before. I already said it's unfair to mark someone down for recycling, but that may be the reality of the judging system. Even Philip Hersh said he's tired of seeing Otonal again. And although he's not a judge himself, he has enough connections in the figure skating world that includes prominent judges who may feel the same way. If someone is "tired, bored" of seeing the same program again, it does affect how they score the PCS. They might mark down the performance score, composition and interpretation score. It has a chance of affecting 3/5 aspects of the PCS scoring. Everyone knows recycling a program is a disadvantage compared to someone who always tries to bring new programs to the table. New programs are brought to bring a "wow factor" to the table, to give the judges something new, fresh and unexpected. I am a Fanyu myself but if Yuzu recycles both his programs next season, then it's even more likely that the judges will be bored of it and mark his PCS down even more. As for Chopin, I think Nathan's PCS was still over-scored even then, most likely because judges were finding an excuse to over-score Nathan and one of the excuses was: Nathan never recycles, at least not on the senior circuit. I know it's not fair, but I do understand it in a way. To be honest, even though I am a huge fan of Yuzu, I get less excited about seeing Otonal this year than last year. Last year I loved it, but this year, I just was sort of bored only because I already know the choreography and music too well.

 

I think Yuzu might be missing the point. I think he might not realize that Nathan is beating him because of these reasons.

 

1. Yes Nathan's nationality does give him a boost

2. Yes Nathan's BV is very high

 

3. And yes, it is highly likely Nathan is getting fluctuated PCS because both his programs are always new. And this is an advantage no matter how hard you try to deny it. Judges always love something new. But Yuzu does not seem to realize this. 

 

I'm not saying Yuzu would have won if he had 2 new programs this year.

I'm saying 2 new programs would not have given the judges any excuse to mark down Yuzu's PCS just for recycling them 

 

 

 

And even fans have limits. If Yuzu does repeat Origin and Otonal again next year, I will be disappointed, no matter how much I love Yuzu. I think he is the most artistic and musical figure skater ever, and to have him not be more versatile to show all the different sides of him with many different types of genres before he retires would be a shame and a little bit of a waste of his artistic talent. 

If judges are incapable of seeing the differences between this year's Otonal and Origin and last year's Otonal and Origin, there is absolutely nothing Yuzu can do to get the points he deserves. He UPGRADED the content of his programs, which, frankly, is more than most of the field has done, new programs or not.

 

Even if he had new programs, they would find other ways to excuse the low PCS. It would probably be "well, the program is new to him, so he's not fully used to it, so of course he won't get high PCS off the bat!"

 

Also, judges don't love new stuff. Fans do. Judges are happy to sit there listening to same old warhorses they've been listening to for ages. If judges were open to new they wouldn't think USBs are the antichrist. They would be open to using technology to make THEIR life easier. And they would really really hate warhorses, which they don't. And seriously, how many Schindler's Lists are there in the field this year? Do all of them get docked on PCS? What about Blues for Klook? Why would any skater choose to do music that has been skated to before if this were a known fact? Yuzu is skating to music that has been used twice in recent history, as far as I know, at least. Otonal, which was used by Yuzu and Johnny, and Origin, which was used by Yuzu and Plush. That, IMO, beats all the other stuff that's been done a gazillion times.

 

At Olys, Yuzu still had the PCS advantage. Which is why he knew he could win. Yes, a clean Nathan in the SP would have probably forced him to bring in the Loop, but the PCS advantage still existed. When Yuzu did LGC and H&L, his scores dropped. The funny thing is, the justification then was that LGC was too modern for the judges who liked classical stuff, and H&L was too quiet and people couldn't get into it. Now, he's doing classical stuff that only two people have done before, but it's outdated. Maybe he should do classical+modern bad mashups like Daniil's stuff to win. That certainly seems to be popular with the judges.

 

Oh and another thing. If judges would get tired of programs, then PCS would be dropping as the season goes. Which is not what happens. Most skaters' PCS increases towards the end of the season, even when for many of them, the programs get emptier. Except Yuzu, his programs generally got richer as the season progressed. Maybe there are others, too, but Nathan is not one of them. At least not so far.

 

Lastly, I'm one of the people who were praying for new programs even as I went into Toronto. And yes, I was vaguely disappointed, until I saw how he further developed those programs. I'm also one of those people who was really upset when he chose to do Chopin for Oly season. And I don't even like that program. But I now think the Oly Chopin is probably the most amazing SP ever, simply because every single gesture, element, movement fits the music perfectly. And you don't reach that level of perfection over one season. I would rather see beautiful, perfected programs than random skating and jumps and hey, it's a new record, what more do you want?

 

And at the end of the day, I want Yuzu to do what he wants and he feels fits his philosophy better. And if that means he will continue doing Otonal and Origin for the rest of his life, while personally disappointed, I will fiercely defend his right to do so. He doesn't owe anyone anything anymore.

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15 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

If judges are incapable of seeing the differences between this year's Otonal and Origin and last year's Otonal and Origin, there is absolutely nothing Yuzu can do to get the points he deserves. He UPGRADED the content of his programs, which, frankly, is more than most of the field has done, new programs or not.

 

Even if he had new programs, they would find other ways to excuse the low PCS. It would probably be "well, the program is new to him, so he's not fully used to it, so of course he won't get high PCS off the bat!"

 

Also, judges don't love new stuff. Fans do. Judges are happy to sit there listening to same old warhorses they've been listening to for ages. If judges were open to new they wouldn't think USBs are the antichrist. They would be open to using technology to make THEIR life easier. And they would really really hate warhorses, which they don't. And seriously, how many Schindler's Lists are there in the field this year? Do all of them get docked on PCS? What about Blues for Klook? Why would any skater choose to do music that has been skated to before if this were a known fact? Yuzu is skating to music that has been used twice in recent history, as far as I know, at least. Otonal, which was used by Yuzu and Johnny, and Origin, which was used by Yuzu and Plush. That, IMO, beats all the other stuff that's been done a gazillion times.

 

At Olys, Yuzu still had the PCS advantage. Which is why he knew he could win. Yes, a clean Nathan in the SP would have probably forced him to bring in the Loop, but the PCS advantage still existed. When Yuzu did LGC and H&L, his scores dropped. The funny thing is, the justification then was that LGC was too modern for the judges who liked classical stuff, and H&L was too quiet and people couldn't get into it. Now, he's doing classical stuff that only two people have done before, but it's outdated. Maybe he should do classical+modern bad mashups like Daniil's stuff to win. That certainly seems to be popular with the judges.

 

Oh and another thing. If judges would get tired of programs, then PCS would be dropping as the season goes. Which is not what happens. Most skaters' PCS increases towards the end of the season, even when for many of them, the programs get emptier. Except Yuzu, his programs generally got richer as the season progressed. Maybe there are others, too, but Nathan is not one of them. At least not so far.

 

Lastly, I'm one of the people who were praying for new programs even as I went into Toronto. And yes, I was vaguely disappointed, until I saw how he further developed those programs. I'm also one of those people who was really upset when he chose to do Chopin for Oly season. And I don't even like that program. But I now think the Oly Chopin is probably the most amazing SP ever, simply because every single gesture, element, movement fits the music perfectly. And you don't reach that level of perfection over one season. I would rather see beautiful, perfected programs than random skating and jumps and hey, it's a new record, what more do you want?

 

And at the end of the day, I want Yuzu to do what he wants and he feels fits his philosophy better. And if that means he will continue doing Otonal and Origin for the rest of his life, while personally disappointed, I will fiercely defend his right to do so. He doesn't owe anyone anything anymore.

 

Yes. I have to say that each program he repeats gets upgraded a LOT in terms of transitions and his connection to the music. I believe he cut down the crossovers in Chopin from 20? to 11 when he did Chopin 3.0. Otonal and Origin got very obvious composition and transition upgrades too, which his skating skills even improved visibly to someone like me who is not good at recognising steps. If I can see the difference but the judges can’t, they need to do retraining. Sometimes I wonder if they can actually read the step sequence maps the fans made or are they just marking based on “feelings”, which does seem like the case for the Italian judge this Men’s GPF

 

It saddens me that these skating skills are not appreciated as much as before. In the past you have to be Patrick Chan to get 9 in components. Now quadsters with simplified layouts can get 9.75 easily. It’s becoming more like a reputation and consistency score, something’s thats very obvious if you compare Nathan and Yuzu’s GOE on 4Lz. Judges are not used to seeing Yuzu doing 4Lz so they immediately have a bias to apply lower marks, even though they shouldn’t. Which criteria didn’t hit at least +4 GOE? Yet a few judges have +3. Did Nate have steps and unexpected entries? Yet he easily gets +5 because of consistency

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26 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

If judges are incapable of seeing the differences between this year's Otonal and Origin and last year's Otonal and Origin, there is absolutely nothing Yuzu can do to get the points he deserves. He UPGRADED the content of his programs, which, frankly, is more than most of the field has done, new programs or not.

 

Even if he had new programs, they would find other ways to excuse the low PCS. It would probably be "well, the program is new to him, so he's not fully used to it, so of course he won't get high PCS off the bat!"

 

Also, judges don't love new stuff. Fans do. Judges are happy to sit there listening to same old warhorses they've been listening to for ages. If judges were open to new they wouldn't think USBs are the antichrist. They would be open to using technology to make THEIR life easier. And they would really really hate warhorses, which they don't. And seriously, how many Schindler's Lists are there in the field this year? Do all of them get docked on PCS? What about Blues for Klook? Why would any skater choose to do music that has been skated to before if this were a known fact? Yuzu is skating to music that has been used twice in recent history, as far as I know, at least. Otonal, which was used by Yuzu and Johnny, and Origin, which was used by Yuzu and Plush. That, IMO, beats all the other stuff that's been done a gazillion times.

 

At Olys, Yuzu still had the PCS advantage. Which is why he knew he could win. Yes, a clean Nathan in the SP would have probably forced him to bring in the Loop, but the PCS advantage still existed. When Yuzu did LGC and H&L, his scores dropped. The funny thing is, the justification then was that LGC was too modern for the judges who liked classical stuff, and H&L was too quiet and people couldn't get into it. Now, he's doing classical stuff that only two people have done before, but it's outdated. Maybe he should do classical+modern bad mashups like Daniil's stuff to win. That certainly seems to be popular with the judges.

 

Oh and another thing. If judges would get tired of programs, then PCS would be dropping as the season goes. Which is not what happens. Most skaters' PCS increases towards the end of the season, even when for many of them, the programs get emptier. Except Yuzu, his programs generally got richer as the season progressed. Maybe there are others, too, but Nathan is not one of them. At least not so far.

 

Lastly, I'm one of the people who were praying for new programs even as I went into Toronto. And yes, I was vaguely disappointed, until I saw how he further developed those programs. I'm also one of those people who was really upset when he chose to do Chopin for Oly season. And I don't even like that program. But I now think the Oly Chopin is probably the most amazing SP ever, simply because every single gesture, element, movement fits the music perfectly. And you don't reach that level of perfection over one season. I would rather see beautiful, perfected programs than random skating and jumps and hey, it's a new record, what more do you want?

 

And at the end of the day, I want Yuzu to do what he wants and he feels fits his philosophy better. And if that means he will continue doing Otonal and Origin for the rest of his life, while personally disappointed, I will fiercely defend his right to do so. He doesn't owe anyone anything anymore.

 

 

P.S. As for warhorses, that doesn't count I believe. A skater choosing a warhorse is not an excuse for marking down their PCS, because every skater can express a warhorse, for example Carmen in their own unique and different new way etc. 

I would love to see Yuzu's own version of Nessun dorma. And I think some judges won't mind Yuzu doing a warhorse program. I myself would want to see Yuzu do a warhorse next season. But I don't want to see it twice. This is what I mean by not recycling. Warhorses have nothing to do with recycling, because what I meant by recycling is a skater recycling their own music and program and choreography from previous seasons.  

 

 

But when a skater repeats THEIR OWN same program, then it becomes a recycling disadvantage.

Because most likely it is the same choreography, same spins, same step sequences with the same music cut, with maybe a changed jump layout with maybe a different costume. There may be subtle changes, but they are small changes that not many people notice on the spot

The judges know the program, the fans know it, we know what's coming next too well because we've seen it for a whole season. Then judges might find an excuse to say it gets "old or boring"

 

Why else do you think skaters in all disciplines try to bring new music and new programs every year, if not for PCS score boosting?

- This comment is kind of too vague. But let me explain. 
Imagine if Yuzu repeated Chopin 4 times, but it gets better every season. He perfects it every season. Would you still want to see it for 4 seasons, and miss out on all the new music, choreo that he could have tried in replacement? Would you still want to see the upgraded perfect chopin even if you had to see it for 4 whole seasons?
I think the majority would answer no. It's just the human psychology. We naturally prefer change, variety, something new to see. 
 
The "But Yuzu recycles BOTH his programs, and he does it way too often, and it gets so boring to watch the same program again and again, there is nothing fresh or exciting or new to see" discussion always comes up among Yuzu haters, antis, fans of Nathan, US fans because it is an excuse yes.
It is an excuse to mark Yuzu's PCS down.
I think it is an excuse to also over evaluate Nathan's PCS in comparison. Because Nathan never recycles his programs, at least not yet on the senior circuit. 
 
Is it fair? No. 
Is it understandable? Yes.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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6 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

P.S. As for warhorses, that doesn't count I believe. A skater choosing a warhorse is not an excuse for marking down their PCS, because every skater can express a warhorse, for example Carmen in their own unique and different new way etc. 

I would love to see Yuzu's own version of Nessun dorma. And I think some judges won't mind Yuzu doing a warhorse program. I myself would want to see Yuzu do a warhorse next season. But I don't want to see it twice. This is what I mean by not recycling. Warhorses have nothing to do with recycling, because what I meant by recycling is a skater recycling their own music and program and choreography from previous seasons.  

 

 

But when a skater repeats THEIR OWN same program, then it becomes a recycling disadvantage.

Because most likely it is the same choreography, same spins, same step sequences with the same music cut, with maybe a changed jump layout with maybe a different costume. There may be subtle changes, but they are small changes that not many people notice on the spot

The judges know it, the fans know it, we know what's coming next too well because we've seen it for a whole season. 

 

Why else do you think skaters in all disciplines try to bring new music and new programs every year, if not for PCS score boosting?

- This comment is kind of too vague. But let me explain. 
Imagine if Yuzu repeated Chopin 4 times, but it gets better every season. He perfects it every season. Would you still want to see it for 4 seasons, and miss out on all the new music, choreo that he could have tried in replacement? Would you still want to see the upgraded perfect chopin even if you had to see it for 4 whole seasons?
I think the majority would answer no. It's just the human psychology. We naturally prefer change, variety, something new to see. 
 
The "But Yuzu recycles BOTH his programs, and he does it way too often, and it gets so boring to watch the same program again and again, there is nothing fresh or exciting or new to see" discussion always comes up among Yuzu haters, antis, fans of Nathan, US fans because it is an excuse yes.
It is an excuse to mark Yuzu's PCS down. I think it is an excuse to also over evaluate Nathan in comparison. Is it fair? No. 
Is it understandable? Yes.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

I think you’re putting a lot of your own interpretation in these things. Shizuka and many others repeat their programs 3 times, but no one saw a drop in PCS. Alina repeated her junior program for Olympics yet her PCS shot up like crazy. The “excuse” for the current penalty is just politicking. No judges takes PCS seriously anymore, you can look at the skatingscores data and see how obvious the “coalitions” was. The Italian judge this GPF too, it’s just a tool for them to prop up their favourites without having to justify it like BV. If Yuzu was American, Russian or Canadian I bet you his PCS will shot through the roof regardless of what he does

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