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52 minutes ago, eagle said:

By giving VERY generous PCS and GOEs to Nathan AND Vincent Zhou for 2019 WC. If it's just Nathan, ok fine they are continuing the momentum from before 2018 OG. Nathan AND Vincent very generous PCS, GOEs, sthing's up. 

And what is up? Did you see how generous the judging was in the entirety of Worlds 2019, how barely any UR or edge call was handed throughout the singles events? How the skaters better than Zhou (Jin, Uno, Kolyada) skated at least one program poorly, and how that shifts the momentum? Or how Zhou was placed below both Jin and Uno in 4CCs, despite neither of them being entirely clean?

This hardly explains how the ISU has "dumped the Asian skaters in favour of the US" anyway. That imbalance has always existed, and I've not disagreed with its existence. I have even spoken out about it on this website. Considering only what confirms your theory isn't a great way of going about things, however, nor is confusing "being able to have a cushion and political power" with "they want this Asian skater out".

 

52 minutes ago, eagle said:

2nd , the narrative among the North America media like Canada's CBC has shifted to praising Nathan.

They kind of haven't.

52 minutes ago, eagle said:

AND....and, the newly elected athlete rep Eric Bradford defending Nathan, saying that GOE is subjective. The athlete rep saying that. <facepalm>

This proves exactly nothing, except for how the ISU will try to defend its own decisions, like it always has.

 

52 minutes ago, eagle said:

Lastly, some of us have been thru the Patrick Chan score inflation.

 

He still won WC despite falls, despite his closest rival giving a stellar performance. There was 1 year where many fans believe Daisuke Takahashi should have won WC instead of Patrick.

Yes, been there, too.

 

Chan was already considered the best skater at that point due to his skating skills and the ability to deliver two quads in an LP (in 2011 worlds, for example). He was already considered the best. Has there been any shift of the title of the "best" being handed to Chen I wasn't aware of? All you have is ONE point of data: 2019 Worlds where Hanyu wasn't stellar in the SP compared to Chen, and the skaters considered better than Zhou didn't deliver well, because even you haven't cited the joke event of WTT19 (where of the three contenders in men, Uno bombed hard and would hardly deserve huge GOE and PCS).

 

But, hey, let's take that into consideration. Takahashi was called UR (unfairly, IMO) on one of his jumps in the SP. Hanyu singled a jump in the SP. Chan went "clean" enough for the judges, allowing him to have his momentum in the LP. He made mistakes in the LP but jumped two quads (for three in total), and won it on PCS + SP lead. What does that tell you?

 

52 minutes ago, eagle said:

Another Asian, Boyang Jin (as stated by Max Ambesi) never got +3 under the old system for his textbook 4Lutz. In fact, Boyang at times has gotten lower GOE for better quality jumps. But then, Boyang is from an even smaller fed than Japan.

He got very close to it in 4CC 2018. Not all of his attempts have deserved full GOE, and he's never been able to build his momentum like the others have to get a freebie. But this is a pointless argument in what we are discussing, as again, I haven't denied that Asian skaters have it harder. The point, again, is if Hanyu has been replaced as number one in the judges eyes, which is what would really affect him if both he and Chen were clean in the same competition.

 

Chen is seen as number two now. This exact same inflation happened with Hanyu in the season leading up to Sochi, as he built his momentum and beat Chan in the GPF. No one cared about it, because Hanyu was a better skater than Chan at that point (and frankly should have been number one in the judges' eyes, although his LP sucked). This inflation, and setting up contenders to the "reigning champion" has always been a part of the sport. I do not believe that Hanyu will be replaced in the judges' eyes till he competes a full season against Chen and loses the GPF AND the Worlds to him (or sits out the GPF and loses worlds again, or sits out the season entirely). He is clearly superior. What happened in worlds 2019 was simply momentum-based, as far as I can say.

52 minutes ago, eagle said:

They are lining up everything to push forth their agenda, in a pretty obvious way too.

Not obvious for me, but it is what it is.

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1 hour ago, freyaminnie said:

 

 

Imagine if there's another American who could quads AND white. They would drop Nathan instantly. 

 

I wouldnt go so far to say that they will drop Nathan. As long as the athlete represent USA. 

 

Having seen back then how Shen/Zhou had to pander to the western judges taste, the kind of music and expression that is understood by the judges

 

If I remember correctly, Shen Yi received a lot of flak among China fans for being more sensual/sexy in her performance.

Shen/Zhao I think were the 2010 OG champ in pairs, 1st Asians I think.

 

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Guys, echoing Fay, what you guys are discussing might be better sent to Gen Skating chat, where we debate more about narratives.

 

And IMO, the momentum was going for Chen even heading into Olys 2018, sorry. It won't go down, because it's in ISU's interest to keep USfed (and money) engaged, so politically the hype won't go down. On the other hand, if there's any guy who could go back up in terms of momentum, once he heals up, it's Yuzu. From the way he worded things, that 4A is no longer a dream, I have my suspicions the boy has landed Nessie in practice enough times, just not at the ratio to bring it to a program, or maybe he held back due to injury. I also suspect he has 4Lz back too, but injury derailed him (if you follow the documentary, he actually listed 4A or 4Lz or 4Lo).

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14 minutes ago, Xen said:

And IMO, the momentum was going for Chen even heading into Olys 2018, sorry.

I agree here, he had a full uninhibited season then, too. Had Chen gone clean, likely they would have gone for him (a la Sotnikova at Sochi, or even Zagitova at PC), and that would have killed Yuzuru's standing. But, it didn't happen, and winning worlds after a season of having the two-time OGM injured and not having a good SP while still delivering a good LP isn't the same on any level. Chen WILL have a bigger boost next season based off the two world titles, though.

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2 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

And what is up? Did you see how generous the judging was in the entirety of Worlds 2019, how barely any UR or edge call was handed throughout the singles events? How the skaters better than Zhou (Jin, Uno, Kolyada) skated at least one program poorly, and how that shifts the momentum? Or how Zhou was placed below both Jin and Uno in 4CCs, despite neither of them being entirely clean?

This hardly explains how the ISU has "dumped the Asian skaters in favour of the US" anyway. That imbalance has always existed, and I've not disagreed with its existence. I have even spoken out about it on this website. Considering only what confirms your theory isn't a great way of going about things, however, nor is confusing "being able to have a cushion and political power" with "they want this Asian skater out".

 

The point  again, is if Hanyu has been replaced as number one in the judges eyes, which is what would really affect him if both he and Chen were clean in the same competition.

 

Chen is seen as number two now. This exact same inflation happened with Hanyu in the season leading up to Sochi, as he built his momentum and beat Chan in the GPF. No one cared about it, because Hanyu was a better skater than Chan at that point (and frankly should have been number one in the judges' eyes, although his LP sucked). This inflation, and setting up contenders to the "reigning champion" has always been a part of the sport. I do not believe that Hanyu will be replaced in the judges' eyes till he competes a full season against Chen and loses the GPF AND the Worlds to him (or sits out the GPF and loses worlds again, or sits out the season entirely). He is clearly superior. What happened in worlds 2019 was simply momentum-based, as far as I can say.

Not obvious for me, but it is what it is.

As far I'm concerned, in the eyes of ISU & most of the judges, they want Nathan to be no 1.

Yuzuru dont get brownie points for being 2X OG champ, they want him to retire so they can move on to the next champ. Such  message should be blatantly obvious to all.

 

As long as Nathan just does reasonably well, clean skate, do multiple quads, he's the hyped one. 

 

Which is something that dont happen with other sports I follow. In fact, two 2X OG champs, (at age 30, 35) will be competing in 2020 Summer OG. 

There is difference in how their world governing body treats/appeciates their 2X OG champ & how ISU treats Yuzuru.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

And you know that Yuzuru's score wouldn't have exceeded Nathan's if he'd been able to hold on to an SP lead, how? Do you realize there's always been a momentum aspect to the sport?

 

Yuzuru probably DOES need more quads, in case Chen tries to land 5 in the LP in order to beat him. That's the real reason, though, unless you want to say that it doesn't matter at all if Yuzuru trains the 4F and the 4Lz, because Chen already has them and can put them in the LP and do 6 quads total, therefore getting his PCS + GOE that the judges want to pile onto him no matter what, and therefore win?

well you are the one who is convinced Yuzu lost FS to 10 points because he lost short

I am not . I think he lost FS because ISU is blind and dead.

that is the fundamental difference between us.

 

and yes,  Chen can do a 4S in WTT in that quality got GOE of 4.02 (compared with Yuzu's 4S in COR otonal is 4.30.) and make every one believe he can land 5 in LP. And i was there the whole week in saitama he really got big problems in landing his 4F that is why he replaced 4F with 4lz in short, but judges didn't see anything.  No one get called for UR? what happened to the 4S in origin?

 

 

this is why i thought he is the chosen one and yuzu isn't .

 

I know there's saying different matches has different standard, but we all see how PCS changes after US national.

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Yuzu has himself a great deal of power,  if he'd only learn how to use it.  He has endorsement contracts with some powerful skating financers, particularly P&G.  The threat of his retiring would be something they would not like to see any time soon.  Competition organizers, who when Yuzu is competing can count on sell-outs at least for the men's events, value his presence (even if it means bringing in an extra contingent of flower kids to handle the Poohbursts).  He should simply say that if the disadvantageous scoring continues he'll consider retiring to avoid the hassle.  Of course I know, as all of you also, that Yuzu wants to compete as long as it remains possible for him to bring in the gold.  In basic monetary terms Yuzu is worth considerably more than any other male skater out there.  He should take advantage of that, wanting the scoring simply to be fair and not put to his advantage.  It has been said that one should walk quietly but carry a big stick.  Yuzu has a big stick and he should realize there are some times one needs to use it.

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26 minutes ago, micaelis said:

Yuzu has himself a great deal of power,  if he'd only learn how to use it.  He has endorsement contracts with some powerful skating financers, particularly P&G.  The threat of his retiring would be something they would not like to see any time soon.  Competition organizers, who when Yuzu is competing can count on sell-outs at least for the men's events, value his presence (even if it means bringing in an extra contingent of flower kids to handle the Poohbursts).  He should simply say that if the disadvantageous scoring continues he'll consider retiring to avoid the hassle.  Of course I know, as all of you also, that Yuzu wants to compete as long as it remains possible for him to bring in the gold.  In basic monetary terms Yuzu is worth considerably more than any other male skater out there.  He should take advantage of that, wanting the scoring simply to be fair and not put to his advantage.  It has been said that one should walk quietly but carry a big stick.  Yuzu has a big stick and he should realize there are some times one needs to use it.

he wouldn't be Yuzuru if he'd do that .

 

At the very end of the run,what one does on the ice it's what matters :forgets the crazy scoring,the influencial federations,the talks ,when he skates he has something way more then the rest of his competitors .

If he can skate they way he did coming from injuries immagine what he'll do once recovered:party0035:

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34 minutes ago, mercedes said:

he wouldn't be Yuzuru if he'd do that .

 

Exactly. Yuzu's strategy has always been to be so good that judges are compelled to give him good scores no matter what. Instead of talking about scoring, he makes his statement by going out and delivering so much excellence that he's challenging the judges to dare to give him poor scores. 

 

 

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