General Yuzuru Chat

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, Salior said:

what's next, a new generation of skater who can't jump the proper technique even if they wanted to?

it's exactly what's already happened.

 

although does anyone know for sure that PR increases risk of injury? I feel like it's easier to jump that way because you don't need to rotate as much, so you don't have to jump as high to get the rotation in, so it might actually decrease injuries? but what DOES increase risk of injury is jumping quads without proper skating skills (skating skills go a long way to preventing injuries) and jumping quads for the points when you can't land them consistently yet. 

[Bilge]

1 hour ago, memae said:

I also don't think they're nearly as negative about Yuzu when they have criticisms as so many people like to think they do. People are so protective of Yuzu that they can't hear a word against him, even if it's a valid criticism or speculation. And, as we've seen since ACI this year, he can handle himself just fine when it comes to influencing and responding to narratives about himself.

 

As you said they're bitchy and gossipy. Do i need to say more? Its been a while i listened them (i wasn't even a fan back then) yet i get really negative vibe from them. I don't think it is protectiveness and cannot taking valid criticism but them beeing as you said bitchy.

[Figure_Frenzy]

2 hours ago, alwaysafan said:

Really now, I answered another with my thoughts regarding this issue. I'm not interested in proving anything. Let it go.

 

...but then that means you were annoyed for...what, exactly?

 

Those media people who are usually dogpiling on Yuzu now buttering up at him seems... suspicious, to say the least, but then what does their buttering up to Yuzu exactly prove?

That they are spineless people? Most likely so. Nasty people for being so spineless? Sure, you can call them that, and it's completely reasonable to feel repulsed by their nastiness.

 

That they secretly wishing a fall multiple times as hard after he is being praised to the moon(eg. failing to win Worlds after a "narrative builldup" of his current rivalry)? I honestly don't think they thought it up that far. It's more of an amoral volatility rather than deliberate malice.

 

Because they even blasted their own skater whom they propped so highly when he imploded real hard (and we all saw that they didn't report him in the line of "...just a couple setbacks and he could be back in contention for gold medal again!" but more of out and out doom and gloom for succumbing to the pressure). 

 

In the end they (media people) may dream up how the skating season goes according to their own wishes but no one can predict exactly how it will actually happen, much less make it happen so it fits the supposed continuation of their narrative (...not the media people's jobs anyway :v).

 

In the end, I guess all I mean to say is to direct your anger to the main people who make those media people blab this way (ie. the big*ss fed such as U*FSA etc.) because in the end those media people were only accessories to this vile machination moved by that root of evil that is the big fed.

[Figure_Frenzy]

22 minutes ago, yuzuangel said:

although does anyone know for sure that PR increases risk of injury?

 

I can only surmise that, when the skater twists their body due to the PR it might add an additional strain to their joints (and not just the usual joints like knees or ankles (usually affected during landing), but like hip joints, and possibly the spine as well) compared when they jump with minimal amount of PR (because they don't twist their body). A good research idea for biomechanics researchers, I reckon!

[alwaysafan]

10 minutes ago, Figure_Frenzy said:

 

...but then that means you were annoyed for...what, exactly?

 

Those media people who are usually dogpiling on Yuzu now buttering up at him seems... suspicious, to say the least, but then what does their buttering up to Yuzu exactly prove?

That they are spineless people? Most likely so. Nasty people for being so spineless? Sure, you can call them that, and it's completely reasonable to feel repulsed by their nastiness.

 

That they secretly wishing a fall multiple times as hard after he is being praised to the moon(eg. failing to win Worlds after a "narrative builldup" of his current rivalry)? I honestly don't think they thought it up that far. It's more of an amoral volatility rather than deliberate malice.

 

Because they even blasted their own skater whom they propped so highly when he imploded real hard (and we all saw that they didn't report him in the line of "...just a couple setbacks and he could be back in contention for gold medal again!" but more of out and out doom and gloom for succumbing to the pressure). 

 

In the end they (media people) may dream up how the skating season goes according to their own wishes but no one can predict exactly how it will actually happen, much less make it happen so it fits the supposed continuation of their narrative (...not the media people's jobs anyway :v).

 

In the end, I guess all I mean to say is to direct your anger to the main people who make those media people blab this way (ie. the big*ss fed such as U*FSA etc.) because in the end those media people were only accessories to this vile machination moved by that root of evil that is the big fed.

 

... I made a short comment of about one line of text, answering, from my point of view, a realistic take on Yuzu's recent positive media feedback. If people are seeing a sentiment that warrants that many paragraphs, I suppose the next time I'll write a comment I'll end the sentence with a cutesy emoji. Honestly.

[yuzuangel]

18 minutes ago, Figure_Frenzy said:

 

I can only surmise that, when the skater twists their body due to the PR it might add an additional strain to their joints (and not just the usual joints like knees or ankles (usually affected during landing), but like hip joints, and possibly the spine as well) compared when they jump with minimal amount of PR (because they don't twist their body). A good research idea for biomechanics researchers, I reckon!

Honestly I'm not convinced that PR itself causes injuries any more than what comes with jumping in general, but there are certainly other things do cause injuries that come with performing jumps poorly, such as muscling jumps and hammer-toeing and just attempting difficult jumps that one has low probability of landing in general.

[andchipzz]

OKAY! This is an interview that might answer some of your questions about:

1. Why media and ISU start doing a turnaround about Yuzu (from initially practically ignoring his achievement to suddenly post GOAT in their SNS?

2. Why judges starting to judge him properly.

 

This person here translate russian article to Japanese and as usual, google translate it to English. If you are looking for the original article, there is a link there too.

In conclusion, Ari Zakaryan said that there is a perception of greatness and popularity and interest, generate solely by Yuzuru's presence, and figure skating community live in that bubble, not realizing that it will all disappear by the time Yuzuru retires. And the business people behind the scene of figure skating are afraid of it. And, Ari who has proposed for this Awards ceremony since apparently 8 years ago (!), is in the mind that it will be great if there will be post-competition event similar to an Ice Shows, in which, great skaters of the past can actually attend the event for the purpose of receiving Award or giving performance etc.

https://russianfigureskatingforever.blogspot.com/2019/10/zakaryan-ISUaward.html

 

Quote

"When Yuzuru flies to Russia for the Grand Prix stage, according to my information, about five thousand Japanese fans fly after him from Japan. Although I was told that this is even a somewhat understated figure. These people book hotels, buy tickets, hire translators for their money on an hourly basis ... No other Japanese athlete enjoys such commercial popularity with fans and never used them. Even Mao Asada. This, in fact, is the answer to the question that you just asked me. Therefore, I wish Yuzuru Hanyu health and prosperity. All show managers of the world pray for this. To Hanyu and Japan.

If we talk about what is happening in figure skating as a whole, the current period is most strongly associated with me when our grandfathers, who fought in World War II, sacredly believed that communism and universal prosperity would come. And then overnight they realized that they had lived illusions all their lives. Recognizing that all the apparent well-being of figure skating is actually exactly the same illusion - this is a very powerful blow for those who really love figure skating and put their lives to it. Like the same Alexei Mishin, Tamara Moskvina, Tatyana Tarasova, like the same John Knicks and Frank Carroll. Lumps, personalities. If it happens that we lose our sport, it will be very difficult for them."

 

And actually like all of you I have been afraid thinking about the answers of those questions. Without downplaying or implying anything about Yuzu's scoring except that it now actually matches with the performance he gives (rather than underscored as he usually was), I think the people at ISU, being pushed by the business people who is sponsoring and funding them, will now actually gives Yuzu the dignity that he deserves as he enters what might be the final olympic cycle in his amateur career. Fans' uproar about the unfairness and also threat of leaving fs community if ISU cannot appreciate what Yuzu is doing (which all of them now realize might not be just a threat but a real fact), make them change their trajectory.

Current environment is very different than what it was in the past that judges cannot anymore give scores unfairly without public scrutiny, considering the ease of use of internet and social media. All of their scoring is being watched carefully by fans, and especially Yuzuru's fans are like that. We analyze what he actually deserves from each performance, created blog, making annotated videos. His fandom is one that figure skating has never enjoyed before (and maybe the ISU and skating federations do not enjoy at all), all of his movements on ice are monitored by camera, recorded and photograph, and fs fans can actually gather those and evaluate the scoring!

 

Fanyus are invested in Yuzu and fairness in judging, because he never even tries to move fans to riot against scoring, complaining about phantom UR in a blatant way like we remember Zhou and his coach did in 2018? or 2017, etc. UNTIL NOW, when he feels that he has been scored appropriately, then he feels he can say something about it. 

 

So, I am currently in the assumption that ISU pushed by the sponsor behind them is actually trying to maintain and lure fanyus hoping that at the very least 50% fo Yuzu's fans will stay invested in other skaters. Or, they want to squeeze fanyus money as much and as long as possible using Yuzuru as the commodity. This is not only them who is doing it, because Beijing Oympic Committee is also banking on that. 

 

[Veveco]

We can always count on Japanese media for great pictures 

 

 

[shanshani]

Regarding the media narrative stuff, I don't think it's that complicated or conspiratorial. Does US media want Nathan to win? Yes. That biases their coverage. But I think the turn around on Yuzu is just horse-race/interest generating stuff. There's no larger design other than generating clicks.

 

Plus, like I said elsewhere, the “discourse” overreacts to the most recent event. Like with Nathan winning Worlds, yeah against an injured Yuzuru Hanyu. It wasn't as decisive a victory, nor was Nathan as unbeatable, as the narrative suggested. I'm not trying to take Nathan's win away from him, a win is a win, and Yuzu set a high enough bar that it certainly couldn't have been easy to clear it, but with his injuries, Yuzu could not perform to the maximum of his potential. As we see by the scores at SCI, Yuzu could, in fact, have beaten him if he had been in top condition and skated squeaky clean. Another example, during the early season up until US nationals, it was Yuzu most people thought was unbeatable, injuries aside. 

 

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

Honestly I'm not convinced that PR itself causes injuries any more than what comes with jumping in general, but there are certainly other things do cause injuries that come with performing jumps poorly, such as muscling jumps and hammer-toeing and just attempting difficult jumps that one has low probability of landing in general.

 

I'm not convinced PR is a problem from an injury-causing standpoint either. I think there's some wishful thinking from fans here. Textbook lutzes are more beautiful, but I'm not really sure they're safer. They're certainly harder to land, which increases risk.

 

Anyway, I hope the ISU is starting to realize they really need to fix judging. Increased technical difficulty is interesting, I guess, but people fall in love with the sport because of complete skaters like Yuzu. But it isn't worth being such a skater if there's no reward for it. It's clearly more effective to be a Sasha Trusova instead. So the ISU is literally reducing its pipeline of future stars if they don't get a handle on this problem.

 

I think that's another thing Yuzu is thinking about, the impact of his skating on younger skaters. Because on the one hand, he clearly does want skaters to follow in his footsteps, and that's why he wanted to prove that you could get high scores even if you weren't maxed out on technical difficulty. But on the other hand, he probably also realizes that skaters who follow in his footsteps might be hurting their own careers, because they're making life difficult for themselves by doing things that go unrewarded when they could be training big jumps and simplifying the program so that they land those big jumps instead. And that probably bothers him.

[quadaxelwin]

5 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

ooh yeah good point. i don't think Nike sponsors any athlete with NO social media account. That's the whole point isn't it? As part of your contract you must post on your social media account with some regular frequency.

 

Omg I didn't know Nike didn't sponsor an athlete with no social media account? But then again most athletes do have social media account nowadays so I see what you are saying...

 

I was expecting him to get commercial deals without opening social media.

 

Although Sekkisei did kinda make him write very generic blog posts here and there, Yuzu never got social media from there endorsement. 

[WinForPooh]

2 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

Honestly I'm not convinced that PR itself causes injuries any more than what comes with jumping in general, but there are certainly other things do cause injuries that come with performing jumps poorly, such as muscling jumps and hammer-toeing and just attempting difficult jumps that one has low probability of landing in general.

 

Between PR and UR, I would think UR hurts joints far more. I'd guess that since you can control your body more on takeoff, whatever you do during takeoff  (unless you really wrench your joints around) causes less damage than landing problems - the wrenching of ankle for UR, the twisting of knee, stiffer knees that absorb too much of the shock. I think the solution is first to start compiling data already available plus establish a study with a medical research centre to follow athletes competing now and who've competed in the past, a long-term study that'll get us some answers.

 

Second part of the solution is obvious to me, fix the judging. Use slow-mo and more cameras for PR, so that quads with 3.25 revolutions get scored as an over-rotated triple which should be less than a clean perfect triple. If there's less than 3.5 revolutions in toe jump, 3.25 in an edge jump, call it an overrotated triple. The 3.5 to 3.25 revolutions get called UR, hit heavily on the score. We don't need to see such quads, we can see good triples instead. They cause less damage, there would be fewer quads being tried, and the ones being tried will be those who have the right technique.

 

@andchipzzThat is a good point, I didn't think of that. Yuzu has been collecting ISU sponsors, too.

 

@shanshani Maybe ISU realised that a lot of people watch skating during the Olys and fall for a skater, so for them to capitalise on that and make money and popularise the sport, they need their Olympic champions to keep skating after that. A lot of people fell in love with Yulia, too, but she was too hurt to go on much longer and that really hurt interest in ladies. Casual Olympic viewers who get attracted to the sport by somebody like that don't become fans of the sport unless the skater keeps skating long enough to get them sucked into the sport itself. They have no idea what a treasure they have in Yuzu like that, two Olys and STILL going! Maybe a third now! Maybe sponsors have figured that out and have told them to stop pre-empting the dark day of r*****ment until it actually comes.

 

Now there's a lot of novelty in the ladies jumping quads thing, but once six or seven of them start jumping quads, it's no longer novel, and they need more interest than just the 'oooooh look girls jump quads' thing.

[TallyT]

1 hour ago, andchipzz said:

Whole post, thank you!

 

 

If this is really how Zakaryan's thinking is going, Yuzu's oh-so-polite interview would have given him conniptions.  Yes, Japanese love of skating will survive Yuzu's retirement, as long as their people have a fair chance of winning... but if they believe he's left because he simply can't get a fair shake, that WILL turn a lot of fans both there and worldwide away.

 

 

[andchipzz]

47 minutes ago, TallyT said:

 

If this is really how Zakaryan's thinking is going, Yuzu's oh-so-polite interview would have given him conniptions.  Yes, Japanese love of skating will survive Yuzu's retirement, as long as their people have a fair chance of winning... but if they believe he's left because he simply can't get a fair shake, that WILL turn a lot of fans both there and worldwide away.

 

 

Well, the current environment is this: fanyus cirticizing the unfairness of scoring in social media very loudly, it turns head. The last UR call that Fair Skating Union (?) twitter account promote, about Yuzu being called for phantom UR and glitchy judging overall it is retweeted by Carol Lane, so it definitely attracts the attention of figure skating (and also, this happens to comparatively the most technically perfect competing figure skater in the whole community). Moreover, people are spreading the comparison video between Yuzu's jump vs Aymoz's jump, with the unfairly low score for Yuzu. Regardless, this is the era of information, no one can cover up things for too long.

The business people behind the scene is not THAT ignorant, I am sure. Some of them even have social media. So, yeah, I think what they are afraid the most is that such blatant robbery will cause Yuzu's fans and figure skating fans that have been at disadvantage by such unfairness to walk away with Yuzu's retirement. It does not mean that ISU will be much fairer to overall competing skaters, but because he is a very high profile skater, they need to learn to use this to their advantage too. 

[WinForPooh]

Apparently that woman in the long coat and white mask was stalking Yuzu again.

[andchipzz]

1 minute ago, WinForPooh said:

Apparently that woman in the long coat and white mask was stalking Yuzu again.

 

It is very weird right? Does nobody can do anything? Or is there some proofs that she is really a stalker or someone that is allowed to be near but does not want to be recognized?