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[2019] GPF - Men Free Skating

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1 minute ago, NorthernGrace01 said:

I don't think we can ever answer that unless Nathan were to change his nationality. 

 

Really, Nathan is an example since the favoritism is not just about him. It's just now is all about Yuzu vs Nathan so his name comes up regularly. But the FS is bigger than just senior man field.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, NorthernGrace01 said:

I don't think we can ever answer that unless Nathan were to change his nationality. 

And i think we all know the scoring differs based on the nationality

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make figure jumping a thing. or at least stop score components at all, then. Just don't pretend the current scoring has any sense.

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1 minute ago, Bilge said:

And i think we all know the scoring is differs based on the nationality

This is not new either and is unlikely to change much no matter what.

 

It isn't just nationality either. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, when coached by Eteri, her scores were through the roof, when she moved to Brian Orser, her Lutz edge was finally called and her scores have mostly gone down, with a few exceptions like when skating in Russia.

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Just now, NorthernGrace01 said:

This is not new either and is unlikely to change much no matter what.

 

It isn't just nationality either. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, when coached by Eteri, her scores were through the roof, when she moved to Brian Orser, her Lutz edge was finally called and her scores have mostly gone down, with a few exceptions like when skating in Russia.

And i think that is unfair 

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Just now, Bilge said:

And i think that is unfair 

 

It is.

 

Eteri can do no wrong at the moment, she's got the ISU eating out of her hands

 

And I say that as a big fan of many of her skaters!!

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9 minutes ago, NorthernGrace01 said:

This is not new either and is unlikely to change much no matter what.

 

It isn't just nationality either. Look at Evgenia Medvedeva, when coached by Eteri, her scores were through the roof, when she moved to Brian Orser, her Lutz edge was finally called and her scores have mostly gone down, with a few exceptions like when skating in Russia.

Eh, but I also think taking a fatalistic point of view that "it probably won't change much no matter what" is also what people don't like. It focuses too much on this external locus of control-- and for anyone's psychology-- that doesn't go down well. There have been several academic analyses of judge bias according to nationality/in general, so we all know it exists and has existed. 

 

We all want to advocate for increased equity and fairness. That's just human nature. And in some people, this may manifest in a very.. unreasonable, harsh manner of speaking or action. Although I do recognize that.. preferential treatment is also human nature.

 

But I'm a solution person. We all strive for constant improvement. I don't like being content with the way things are, nor do I like complaining about injustices all day-- especially if there's actionable, reasonable ways for an organization to improve their processes. 

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I want to get a particular criticism of Nathan out though...

 

His shirts at the GPF

 

LOL What the... They're just AWFUL. He looks like he's just been out cycle or horse racing in those nasty shiny things.

 

Do not like them at all 

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Anyway, I post it here, so more people will see it - Gandy-san analysis of men SP. Explanations are in japanese (google translate works well), but corrected protocols everybody can understand. And it's only corrected TES, not PCS.

http://gandy.seesaa.net/article/472122988.html#more

 

 

You can disagree with this analysis or not. But I recommend everybody to look at it, because I believe many people don't realise how much someone can be overscored if GOE on most or every their element are lenient.

GOE really are important in this scoring system.

Nathan "only" lands jumps with big BV.

Yuzuru is god of quality.

Remember about it.

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Just now, yuzublaze said:

Eh, but I also think taking a fatalistic point of view that "it probably won't change much no matter what" is also what people don't like. It focuses too much on this external locus of control-- and for anyone's psychology-- that doesn't go down well. There have been several academic analyses of judge bias according to nationality/in general, so we all know it exists and has existed. 

 

We all want to advocate for increased equity and fairness. That's just human nature. And in some people, this may manifest in a very.. unreasonable, harsh manner of speaking or action. Although I do recognize that.. preferential treatment is also human nature.

 

But I'm a solution person. We all strive for constant improvement. I don't like being content with the way things are, nor do I like complaining about injustices all day-- especially if there's actionable, reasonable ways for an organization to improve their processes. 

 

Vandalism, disrespecting skaters by boycotting them or holding up signs related to the judging during their national anthem is not the answer though.

 

Even if I wasn't also a fan of his too, I would be appalled at such behaviour.

 

He busts his butt just the same as any skater to pull off what he did at the GPF and he doesn't deserve the disrespect he's getting.

 

I think people should stop and think how Yuzu probably feels about this and also how it can affect HIS reputation too.

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Just now, NorthernGrace01 said:

 

Vandalism, disrespecting skaters by boycotting them or holding up signs related to the judging during their national anthem is not the answer though.

 

Even if I wasn't also a fan of his too, I would be appalled at such behaviour.

 

He busts his butt just the same as any skater to pull off what he did at the GPF and he doesn't deserve the disrespect he's getting.

 

I think people should stop and think how Yuzu probably feels about this and also how it can affect HIS reputation too.

I agree with this as well. I think there are always ways to get to where we want without disrespecting, even if they're a little more difficult and require more (innocuous) collective action and thought. 

 

The harder road, as many of the skaters would agree with, including Yuzu, is very much more worth it  

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8 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Anyway, I post it here, so more people will see it - Gandy-san analysis of men SP. Explanations are in japanese (google translate works well), but corrected protocols everybody can understand. And it's only corrected TES, not PCS.

http://gandy.seesaa.net/article/472122988.html#more

 

In short, very probably Yuzuru should win GPF.

 

You can disagree with this analysis or not. But I recommend everybody to look at it, because I believe many people don't realise how someone can be overscored if GOE on most or every their element are lenient.

GOE really are important in this scoring system.

Nathan "only" lands jumps with big BV.

Yuzuru is god of quality.

Remember about it.

I do disagree for the most part.

 

Yuzu did make mistakes, there is no denying that. Minor ones but still mistakes.

And he was running on empty towards the end it was getting a little ragged.

Nathan was cleaner overall and kept up his energy levels right to the end.

They were both amazing and I wish they both could have gold. Both also had weaknesses as well as strengths. 

I do think it was more evenly matched but Nathan deserved this.

We also have to remember Yuzu made a costly SP error while Nathan did not. Yuzu might not have been able to overcome that anyway.

 

That article in itself is not exactly an unbiased one either.

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2 minutes ago, NorthernGrace01 said:

I do disagree for the most part.

 

Yuzu did make mistakes, there is no denying that. Minor ones but still mistakes.

And he was running on empty towards the end it was getting a little ragged.

Nathan was cleaner overall and kept up his energy levels right to the end.

They were both amazing and I wish they both could have gold. Both also had weaknesses as well as strengths. 

I do think it was more evenly matched but Nathan deserved this.

We also have to remember Yuzu made a costly SP error while Nathan did not. Yuzu might not have been able to overcome that anyway.

GOE can give you even +50%BV and for example quads have really big BV. Meanwhile Nate barely hits any bullet.

 

I'm too lazy to do math, so I can't tell you if I 100% agree with this analysis or not. But I know that Nate is overscored in every competition by at least 40-50 points in total and it was the same this time.

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28 minutes ago, Paskud said:

GOE can give you even +50%BV and for example quads have really big BV. Meanwhile Nate barely hits any bullet.

 

I'm too lazy to do math, so I can't tell you if I 100% agree with this analysis or not. But I know that Nate is overscored in every competition by at least 40-50 points in total and it was the same this time.

I think their GOEs should be closer but do not agree Nathan barely hits any bullets, that's very unfair.

If you really believe he should have had 50 points less for two effortless clean programs with 5 quads and a 3A in his FS over Yuzu who did make some errors and a very costly one on the SP...well, I think that shows incredible bias.

 

I would have them much closer in scoring but not that extreme!

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3 hours ago, Paskud said:

Anyway, I post it here, so more people will see it - Gandy-san analysis of men SP. Explanations are in japanese (google translate works well), but corrected protocols everybody can understand. And it's only corrected TES, not PCS.

http://gandy.seesaa.net/article/472122988.html#more

 

In short, very probably Yuzuru should win GPF.

 

You can disagree with this analysis or not. But I recommend everybody to look at it, because I believe many people don't realise how much someone can be overscored if GOE on most or every their element are lenient.

GOE really are important in this scoring system.

Nathan "only" lands jumps with big BV.

Yuzuru is god of quality.

Remember about it.

 

Thanks for posting this!

 

3 hours ago, NorthernGrace01 said:

I do disagree for the most part.

 

Yuzu did make mistakes, there is no denying that. Minor ones but still mistakes.

And he was running on empty towards the end it was getting a little ragged.

Nathan was cleaner overall and kept up his energy levels right to the end.

They were both amazing and I wish they both could have gold. Both also had weaknesses as well as strengths. 

I do think it was more evenly matched but Nathan deserved this.

We also have to remember Yuzu made a costly SP error while Nathan did not. Yuzu might not have been able to overcome that anyway.

 

That article in itself is not exactly an unbiased one either.

 

Kindly give us solid, objective examples of what is not unbiased in that article, and specific examples with reference to rules about what is wrong instead of the rather generic vagueness you've said here. This is a very solidly analysed article by somebody who knows the tech inside and out, so if you do want to dismiss it as biased, I'm afraid you have to back it up or it will be considered unconstructive criticism, and indeed, biased criticism. This is an analysis of elements but energy levels and running ragged are in fact completely irrelevant to a technical analysis of elements.

 

6 hours ago, rockstaryuzu said:

The most effective possible protest we, or any fan, could make is to not buy tickets to competitions and to not watch them on TV or online. That would cut off the flow of money in a heartbeat and send an unmistakable message, and it wouldn't be rude either. 

 

 

 

USFSA doesn't have influence because of ticket sales. It has influence because of broadcast rights which is big money that NBC paid. That's why for USFSA, any protest will need to cause trouble for TV broadcast. There are rules that can be broken - peacefully enough - to make those broadcast rights undesirable. Somehow this concept seems to be difficult for some people to grasp, even if this has been done across different sports.

 

RusFed influence might wane if nobody bought tickets to events in Russia, but with ladies becoming almost a monopoly, that's not going to happen because the numbers are there. Viewing figures for Yuzu competitions are always high, but the numbers on live streams with 3A or the current juniors were actually not that far off. They will obviously not protest overscoring, it's to their advantage, and no other skater has fans in numbers to do anything noticeable.

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