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PomeloPooh

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  1. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat
    42 minutes ago, Neenah said:

    In theory, the rule change favours Yuzu and disadvantages Nathan because of the difference in quality. However, if we apply the new rules using the judges scoring tendencies from past seasons for both skaters, that disadvantage disappears. The judges tend to give higher GOE to quads (especially the more difficult ones) even if the quality is not great and no bullet points were met. considering how much impact the GOE will have in the new rules (its huge), this tendency of the judges will benefit Nathan very much. All he needs is to stay on his feet and the judges will most likely give him +3 GOE and that is 14.95 compared to a 4S with +5 GOE which is 14.55. Looking at this, which would be easier to accomplish a +3 GOE 4Lz or 4F from Nathan or a +5 GOE 4S or 4T from Yuzu or anyone else (history shows the former is more likely to happen). 

     

    BTW, this is not about Nathan in particular but he is a perfect example considering his arsenal of quads. Any other skater who can consistently land a 4Lz and a 4F will have a similar advantage. I feel like many fans do not really realize how much the GOE will impact the scores with the new rules. It is really scary how much ground someone with Nathan's jumps potential can make up in GOE even without having perfect jumps, just because the judges will most likely give positive GOE.

     

    We also keep making the mistake of calculating perfect scores and optimized layouts (especially for Yuzu), which looks great on paper but are really unrealistic expectations considering his health situation and what we've seen from the judges in past seasons. 


    It's not just in theory. If you backtest the new rules using the actual GOEs the judges handed out (which I did here), you'll see that Yuzu loses around 4 points across the short and the free (entirely because of the loss of a jumping pass) even on messy competitions, whereas Nathan consistently loses double digits, even in his cleaner competitions. Yuzu would have won 2017 4CC under the new rules, not Nathan. If you run a hypothetical competition (for instance, here) with Yuzu having +4 GOE across the board and 97.5 PCS, while Nathan has +3 GOE across the board and 95 PCS, Yuzu wins in all cases except the one where he keeps something like his 2016-2017 layout while Nathan adds the 4Lo. Maybe +4 GOE across the board is optimistic for Yuzu, but so is +3 GOE and 95 PCS for Nathan, especially since he's landed the 4Lo exactly once and hasn't tried it again and still has trouble with his 4S and 3A.

    Basically, in order to get a Nathan victory in a case where both of them perform similarly (ie. neither of them falls more than the other), you have to make some pretty generous assumptions about Nathan's progress and pretty ungenerous assumptions about Yuzu's. Note that so far, (on the 3 point scale) Nathan's personal best average FS GOE is 1.29 (Olys), whereas Yuzu's personal best average FS GOE (GPF 2015) is 2.64.
     

    Quote

    That is the conclusion when you compare the new BV with previous BV for the same skater. When you compare the new BV of a skater with the new BV of another skater is the bigger issue, IMO. A skater who can do all the quads, can technically do 2x4Lz, 4F, 4Lo, 4T, 4S and 3A (plus combinations) and it won't require much effort (I don't think 2x4Lz and 2x4F was that common, because of the effort involved). A skater who can only do 4T and 4S, will, at best do 2x4S, 4T, 2x3A and then 3Lz, 3F, 3Lo (not to mention that combinations further complicate things). So I think it's not just what quads you remove, it's what you can replace them with. Add to that GOE depending on the BV, hence quads GOE will be much higher than triples GOE, and the difference can grow even more. It's 6 out of 7 jumps being quads, vs 6 (since nobody has done 7) our of 8 jumps being quads, and 3 out of 7 jumps being quads vs. 4 out of 8 jumps being quads.


    No, I was comparing the gap in BV between skaters that existed before and after applying the quad repetition rule. The gap always goes down once you apply the quad repetition rule. In both cases, the skaters will replace repeating a quad with repeating 3A or 3T (3T allows them to get rid of 2T). The replacement options are the same for both skaters, because they couldn't repeat any triples when they were repeating quads.

    I highly encourage people to run numbers before drawing any conclusions on what will happen next season. I've made a template for this which you can find here--just input hypothetical layouts and GOEs and go to town, the spreadsheet does all the calculations for you (but you'll have to download it first). I feel like there's a lot of pessimism here that isn't really warranted if you do the math.
     


  2. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    You could say, I've been waiting for Alice to address the majority of the questions I still have lingering re: men's event at PC.

    Here.

    • There's explanation with gifs re: Uno's FCCoSp in his FS (as opposed to Zu's lvl3 spin in his SP).
    • There's explanation on how, if tech panels were less blinded to Uno's flawed techniques, Fernandez would have gone home with Silver, in addition to this post.
    • There's explanation on why Zu was absolutely correct when he said even if Uno had landed that 4Lo (and even given the fact that the tech panel went easy on Uno), he would still have won.
    • There's also an explanation of Zu's borderline UR on his 4T at SP - that wasn't called by tech panel but was penalised by the judges anyway, and why the step-out on the 2nd 4T at FS.

    (It's rather too early in the morning for tech talk for me, but hey.)


  3. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat
    4 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

    This is pretty low, I feel. Are they just estimating? I feel like he does maybe 4-5 CMs/endorsements a year. I'd imagine they'd pay him more than $500k each even if just to use his image (i.e. stickers). I guess JSF takes a cut. I feel like his FaOI contract should be quite a lot, because he was clearly the headliner, and he sold out their tickets like several times over. :shrug: Oh well. I am really happy he limits his contracts. I admire him a lot for that.

     

    I don't know, but I think they are only guessing. Where did they get this information? Short of getting his income tax returns, how do you know for sure?

     

    I recall a Japanese article not long after the Sochi Olympics stating something to the effect that the JSF was allowing up to 5 CMs/endorsements per annum to skaters and that Yuzu's price was ¥80 million per CM/endorsement (approximately $719,000 U.S. currently). According to the article, he was the highest-paid skater. Daisuke Takahashi was receiving ¥50 million per CM/endorsement. The article did not state how much the JSF took as its cut, if anything.

     

    I also saw an article that he and other skaters received approximately $10,000 U.S. per show for appearing in such things as "Fantasy on Ice". Therefore, if he had two shows a day, he would receive $20,000.

     

    I don't know how reliable my information is, but, in my opinion, Yuzu is probably not being paid nearly enough for his CMs/endorsements/shows considering his selling power and the profits that the companies are probably making as a result of using him.

     

    Fortunately, Yuzu has been raised properly by his parents and has his priorities straight. He's not focused on money. I think that he received the same type of advice and upbringing from his parents that I did from mine. My parents always told me in Japanese, "hosoku, nagaku," which means "narrowly, long-term". I interpret this to mean living one's life on the straight and narrow with a long view of your life. No taking shortcuts. Face your challenges and overcome them. My parents taught me not to obsess about money. They taught me that if I lived my life honestly and put in my best efforts in everything I did, life would take care of itself. And it has.

     

    And this is why I admire Yuzuru. He is true to himself. He takes no shortcuts. He lives his life honestly, and very much on the straight and narrow. He not only faces up to challenges that are unforeseen and overcomes them, he goes out of his way to create his own challenges – like adding the quad Lutz in the Olympic year. (And this is the kind of stuff that he does that drives me to drink!)


  4. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    Full set of practice + 6-min fancams from Rostelecom Cup up. (Sparkly was from FS 6-min, omake gif from FS practice)

    https://wherespacepooh.tumblr.com/post/167236795499/rostelecom-cup-2017-fancams-yuzuru-hanyu-practice

     

    Overall, good condition here with some really quality jumps executed. You can see him and the team finding answers, getting a better and better sense of the ice, clearly working to differentiate between the different ways to jump each type of quad, timing, et cetera. As always, the stroking was a treat. (He was always so fast right at the outset, that I lost him momentarily in the beginning every single day. Apologies XD)

     

    tumblr_inline_oz23pjYlTh1ue4po9_540.gif 

     

     


  5. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

     

    As it has been said by others, I do not think that there is a problem of backloading or of an unbalanced program as the structure and the coreography have an unity and an original idea at their basis to interpret the music cuts of the music chosen (see the ISU defintion for this part of the scores for Composition) and as long as the skater is able to perform it well all through its lenght. 

     

    It is the same problem of the number and intricacy of transitions, or the number of quads. In my opinion it depends not so much by their number or distribution, but in how well they are or could be performed and in how well the fit all together and with the music. And here the ability of the coreographer and of the skaters are of much relevance.

    Just these days while counting the transitions and crossovers I looked also at their distribution in the programs of men and this led me to observe better also their structure.

     

    I will post here in a first table the first results of these counts and observations on the men's FS at the competions of GP of this season until now (I will do something better in a spreadsheet with the average of the two competitions before the GPF). In the % time of one foot skating on the total time of one foot skating (values in the first row) I didn't report the few seconds at the beginning of the programs, because they are a couple to four seconds max  for all skaters.

    With "Trans. I" meant the transitions between jumps in the first part of the program, and so with "Trans. II" those of the second part.

     

    Type of data Y.H./CoR J.F./IdF M.K./CoC N.C./CoR B.J./CoC S.U./SC J.B./SC
    Jumps layout

    3* quads

    1 4T+3T

    1 + (1) trips

    1 3A

    1 3A+comb

    2 quads

    1 4S+2T

    2 trips

    1 3A

    1 3A+comb

    1 3F+L+3S

    2 quads

    1 4T+3T

    2 trips

    1 3A

    1 3A+comb

    1 3Lz+L+3S

    3* quads

    1 4Lz+3T

    1 4T+2T+2Lo

    1 trip

    1 3A

    1 3A+comb

    3 quads

    1 4T+comb

    1 trip

    1 3A

    1 3A+L+3S

    1 3Lz+3T

    3 quads

    1 4T+2T

    1 trip

    1 3A

    1 3A+L+3F

    1 3S+3T

    1 quad

    2 trips

    1 3A, 1 2A

    1 3A+comb

    1 3Lz+L+3S

    1 3Lz+2T

    Tot. time 1f.skating 56 secs 37 secs 40 secs 37 secs 42 secs 40 secs 49.50 secs
    Nr. 1f. revolutions 35 34 28 25 28 24 34
    Nr. crossovers 28 29 30 44 36 54 38
    % 1f.sk. Trans. I 21.42 9.45 12.50 21.60 17.85 15.00 18.18
    Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. I 13.60 secs 3.5 secs 5 secs 7.99 secs 7.49 secs 6 secs 9 secs
    % 1f.sk. Trans. II 12.50 18.91 22.50 21.60 16.66 17.50 18.18*
    Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. II 7 secs 7 secs 9 secs 7.99 secs 6.99 secs 7 secs 9 secs*
    % 1f.sk. StSq 41.96 27.00 50.00 54.05 33.30 50.00 40.40
    Tot. time 1f.sk. StSq 23.49 secs 10 secs 20 secs 19.99 secs 13.99 secs 20 secs 20 secs
    % 1f.sk. ChSq 21.42 32.43 8.75 2.70 27.30 5.00 22.20
    Tot. time 1f.sk. ChSq 11.99 secs 12 secs 3.5 secs 1 sec. 11.46 secs 2 secs 11 secs
    SS / TR scores 9.54 / 9.18 9.43 / 9.07 8.89 / 8.57 8.96 / 8.57 8.21 / 7.54 9.29 / 8.89 8.86 / 9.04
    PCS scores 94.38 92.36 87.14 88.40 78.78 91.16 90.66

     

    As you can see in some elements and in some part of the program  the difference of Yuzuru and the others is evident. He skates more (a lot more...) than the others on one foot, and also changing direction on one foot more than the others. Nevertheless, he is one of the fastest skaters and with one of the most complex and difficult programs if terms of jumps layout.

     

    What is amazing is also the well balanced distribution of one foot steps and transitions throughout the program of Yuzu. The value of the first set is equal of the last one (a sort di circular structure), with a strong part in the StSq that anyway leave energy not only to jump in the second part, but also to give a strong and rich performance in the Coreographic Sequence.

     

    This led me to look better the Choreo Sequences of the others: I invite you to so the same, if you do not have done it.

    I have to say that the ChoreoSequences of Nathan and of Shoma are substantially a Spread Eagle (hold 2 secs) in the first case and a Cantilever (hold 2 secs) in the second plus one step or turn and crossovers. Something better Kolyada, while Jin is the only one to try to do more steps and turns in a real sequence.

    In the ChSq Yuzuru not only does steps and turns on one foot and the Hydroblade on one foot (hold 2 secs), but also the Ina Bauer (hold 2 secs).

    I know that part of these elements are rewarded also in TES and with GOE.  But if we speak of balance and of unity of the programs, we have to look not just to the distribution of the jumps, but also of all the others elements (see for example the spins: mostly at the end of the program for Kolyada and Chen) and transitions, or the lenght, the pattern and the complexity of the choreographic sequence.

     

    You can see here how the coreographers and the skaters have build those programs to follow their idea of the program, but also to highlight the strenghts and to to "hide" the weaknesses of the skaters, as it is right to be.

     

    It would be interesting if someone could try to count and to analyze the programs of the top ladies (I really can't :)).

     

    Sorry for the long post :headdesk:.

     

    Edit. 1: on the basis of some of your observations and questions, I added the total/absolute time of one foot skating for the different parts of the program (Trans. I, Trans. II, StSq and ChSq) under the percentage on the total amount. I hope it is clearer in this way. If not, let me know.

    * Jason Brown have a different distribution of spins, that break transitions and jumps/elements in 3 parts: I reunited the 2nd and the 3rd part in Trans. II to make the comparison with the others.

    Edit. 2: I added Javier after IdF


  6. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

     

     


  7. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    I would like to know from you all if you have looked at Kolyada FS at CoR and at CoC, and if following you there was so much difference in SS and in transitions in the two comps. I know that Mikhail PCS at CoR have been inflated, but to me there was not so much difference in those compartments in the two performances, while I read the opinion of others saying otherwise (i.e. that today his transitions were lesser / simpler).

     

    I noted also that today  at CoC the scores for Kolyada FS in SS, IN and TR were the same or similar to those of Nathan Chen FS at CoR. What do you think about it ? And more what do you think if we compare those two sets of scores with those of Shoma at Skate Canada (also taking in account the fact that is difficult to compare scores of different comps an so forth...)?

     

    Nathan Chen FS at CoR

    - protocols/jump content: 4 quads, single or in combination (2 of them 4Lz) + two 3A (both with - GOEs) single and in combination + one 2T(pop) +  one 3Lz

    - protocols/StSq3

    - by my count: skating on one foot 37 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 25, crossovers 44

    - protocols/scores: SS= 8.96, TR=8.57, CO=8.89

     

    Mikhail Kolyada FS at CoC

    - protocols/jump content: only 2 quads (with the fall on the 4Lz) + one 2S (pop) + two 3A (one popped) single and in combination + two 3Lz combination + one 3Lo

    - protocols/StSq4

    - by my count: skating on one foot 41 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 28, crossovers 30

    - protocols/scores: SS= 8.89, TR=8.57, CO=8.82

     

    Shoma Uno FS at SC

    - protocols/jump content: 4 quads, single or in combination (1 of them 4Lo,  1 of them with -GOE such as the 4T, also <) + two 3A single and in combination + one 3S in combination +  one 3Lo (with -GOE)

    - protocols/StSq3

    - by my count: skating on one foot 40 secs, number of revolutions on one foot 24, crossovers 54

    - protocols/scores: SS= 9.29, TR=8.89, CO=9.11

     

    I know that for scoring SS and TR there are a lot of other factors / elements to be considered besides one-foot skating, difficult turns and steps and multi directional skating (see here: http://www.usfsa.org/content/ISU program-component-chart_sandp-and-id_08-16.pdf ), but I do think that in most of these other aspects those three skaters are not so far from each other (see speed and acceleration, flow and glide, continuity of movements etc...).

    What do you think about it (without bashing anyone...)?

     

    Thanks in advance for your answers and your opinion :pbow:

     

    P.S. Also at CoR were PCS of Kolyada were inflated he received 9.07 in SS and 8.75 in TR, 9.00 in CO, so always lesser than Shoma at SC.

     


  8. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    To change the subject just for a moment and to continue the observations on "numbers" in the long/free program of Yuzuru and the others top men (and without any kind of negativity towards the others...:happy:).

     

    Before I have counted the timing of one foot skating in their FS as posted in the general Yuzuru chat:

    https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110593

    https://planethanyu.com/topic/3-general-yuzuru-chat/?do=findComment&comment=110604

    (but I have already seen that it is a work to do on average in different competition, because there could be some differences: so if you are interested in this, stay tuned...).

     

    Now I have counted also the numbers of their crossovers. Here you are the first result of counting:

    Yuzuru FS: 28 crossovers (COR)

    Javier FS: 34 crossovers (AC)

    Nathan FS: 44 crossovers (COR)

    Shoma FS: 54 crossovers (SC)


  9. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    ALL THESE ADS FOR THE PHOTO AND POSTER EXHIBITIONS!! :smiley-love017::smiley-love017::smiley-love017:  I think the ads is already an exhibition by itself.  <3 Sorry, I had to put it under spoiler or else it will take up the whole page :laughing: 

     

    Spoiler

     

     

     

     


  10. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat
    1 hour ago, fireovertheice said:

    I have roughly counted also the time of the one foot skating in the step and choreo sequences + various transition elements of some other skaters in the FS showed in the competions of this season held until now.

     

    Here you are:

    Javier Fernandez, FS: Man of la Mancha (Don Qixote) – AC 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 53/53.50 sec.


    Nathan Chen FS:  Mao’s last dancer/Rite of Spring – COR 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 35.30/36 sec.


    Shoma Uno FS: Turandot – SC 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 30.30/31 sec.

     

    To note: Javier has more one foot skating in the transition elements troughout all the program, plus step seq. and choreo seq., while Nathan and Shoma have one foot skating more concentrated in the sequences. Nathan has little bit more complex/more time one foot skated sequences than Shoma .

     

    This is really interesting, thank you for sharing! For these guys you didn't include the jumping time, like you did for Zu, right?

     

    So if we'd want to compare with Zu as well, he'd have 1:53 minutes?

     

    That would still be double the amount Javi has, and nearly 4x the amount Shoma has. Talk about a big difference in SS/TR/CH.


  11. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    I have roughly counted also the time of the one foot skating in the step and choreo sequences + various transition elements of some other skaters in the FS showed in the competions of this season held until now.

     

    Here you are:

    Javier Fernandez, FS: Man of la Mancha (Don Qixote) – AC 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 53/53.50 sec.


    Nathan Chen FS:  Mao’s last dancer/Rite of Spring – COR 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 38.50/39 sec.


    Shoma Uno FS: Turandot – SC 2017 >
    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements: almost 36.30/37 sec.

     

    To note: Javier has more one foot skating in the transition elements troughout all the program, plus step seq. and choreo seq., while Nathan and Shoma have one foot skating more concentrated in the sequences. Nathan has little bit more complex/more time one foot skated sequences than Shoma .

     

    Edit: I calculated again the timing for Nathan for each part of the program (see my next post) and his one foot time skating in total is around 38.50/39 sec. Then I calculated again the timing for Shoma and it's something more also for him (his movements one foot are so tiny and quick that I had to observe a lot of time and also in slomo) : so I corrected my previous version of this post.

    I will see with also the timing in different competions, just out of curiosity.


  12. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    So, on slightly different topics: today, reading some of your post about the time between Yuzuru jumps in SEIMEI, plus all the question of one foot skating, I made some calculations of the timing of this program in the last COR.

     

    This is the result:

    In.Step. Seq.: 20.5 sec.

    1st jump (4Lutz: 2.80 sec.) + 22 sec. ca > 2nd jump (3 Loop: 2.10) + 8.30 sec. >  3rd jump (3Flip: 2.50 sec.)

    1st Comb. Spin (FCCOSp4): 23 sec.

    Step Seq (StSq3).: 50 sec. + transit. 16 sec.

    4th jump (4 salchow: 2.40 sec.) + 17.50 sec. > 5th jump (pop 2T: 1.50 sec.) + 16 sec. > 6th jump (combination 4T+3T: 4 sec.) + 3.50 sec. > 7th jump (3Axel+ 2T: 2.90 sec.) + 5.50 > 8th jump (3Axel: 2.40 sec.)

    2nd Comb. Spin (FCSSp4): 13.80 sec.

    Choreo Sequence (ChSq1): 33.40 sec.

    3rd Comb. Spin (CCOSp4): 17.50 sec.

     

    More in general:

    One foot skating in step and choreo sequences + various transition elements): almost 58.40/59.00 sec.

    Jump time (obviously, beginning and landing on one foot): almost 20.60/21.00 sec.

    Spinning time on one foot: 54.30 sec.

    Total: almost 2.22/23 minutes on one foot, i.e. half of the time of the program (= 4.44 min. based on the rough calculation above)

    To note: the timing in the jumps and between some of them, especially the last axels

     

    Edit: P.S. Some difficoult transitions or coreographic movements on two feet, such as the ina bauer or the spread eagles and so forth, are not included in the last calculations, but one can not forget them thinking about the complexity and the difficulty of this program.


  13. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

     

    s   

       My friend teaches Spanish for 8 graders. One beautiful morning I just got back from ACI and was telling him about my magical experience then suddenly he turned to the students and assigned  the homework of doing research about Yuzuru Hanyu of his own accord !!!!!! I was elated and immediately wrote his name on the.board ( surrounded by many little hearts) to make sure they got the correct one. I then took off more instructional time from my friend ( sorry ) to inform the clueless students , This maybe the most important assignment you’ve ever had ! I’m sure you you would love it ,....bla,bla,bla,...you will look back at today as a fond memory,....”  

    when my friend handed me the stack of this beautiful assignment, I was tearing up, really , looking at some of the hand drawn pics...and those Spanish sentences about Yuzu...ME GUSTA MUCHO !!! I was so happy and told my friend . “ Muchas gracias senor!  I’m forever in your debt!” The students seemed to enjoy it , I hope to convert some and I think I succeed!

    most of the pic they print out are H&L, some PW, there’s only one LGC pic in 110 papers !

    So here are some of the fun ones I pick out to show you 

     

    Spoiler

    vlCtk7m.jpg

    pvGzfIR.jpg

    N0OYHRK.jpg

    NJGSaOc.jpg

    XPzuCa0.jpg

    40Z2VC3.jpg

    awQghPD.jpg

    5YPobgv.jpg

    OPTc1Hm.jpg

    oluPPdd.jpg

    soyQiG1.jpg

     

     


  14. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

     


  15. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat
    On 26/10/2017 at 12:29 AM, Xen said:

    I feel strangely hungry at midnight after reading that...evil. 

    @Murieleirum: You are not helping either, I love Italian!

     

    Hmm...well he can't visit my city without trying heavier spicy food. It's super flavorful. So other than drag him around for hotpot, because Yuzu would probably die, I'd probably make dumplings (zhong shui jiao) which are in a mildly spicy and sweet sauce, dan dan noodles (not spicy at all), and probably some braised pork (hong shao), and sweet and sour spare ribs. Lotus root soup, and probably yin'er soup (it's a type of fungus, usually made as a sweet soup). Most of our vegetables are lightly stir-fried, so I think that's okay, and we can toss in some chicken broth marinated chinese cabbage. As for light and refreshing, hmm probably some bing feng (a type of dessert we have in summer) which is usually made with dried raisins, and a light brown sugar syrup. =)

     

    As for tourism, well he's in the hometown of the pandas, so a trip to see the actual pandas is a must. I'd be happy to donate the money too so he can gear up and hold a young panda for a photo-op, assuming they still do that at the reserve. Then probably a trip to Dufu thatched cottage and Qin Yang Monestary (one of the oldest ones in the city), maybe a trip to Wu Hou Ci, so he can go admire Zhu Ge Liang from the three kingdoms period, since he's so brainy and everything. Day 2, probably take a 2 day trip to Du Jiang Yan, and see the dam that was built back in around 250 BC, then go to QingCheng mountains, which is a key taoist site, climb up to the top of the mountain, stay overnight and catch the sunrise, before going back down. If he visits during September, the area will be pretty with changing leaves. And the air is good so hopefully it won't affect his asthma. 

     

    As for Averbukh...is he trying to get Yuzu to try him out as a choreographer? o_O Don't fall for that trap Zuzu!

    I think this entire off-topic thing is giving everyone very good ideas for potential vacations xD


  16. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    I made a pic tutorial of how i fold my swans :) i had posted the Youtube video i used but i found it confusing at times, so i tried to take pics of relevant angles to help you :biggrin: 

    Please excuse my dry hands and my fading Seimei mani. I've been too lazy and should change it already:

    https://imgur.com/a/zzRI3/


  17. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat
    50 minutes ago, yuzuuu said:

    wanna send something for a while now alrdy... can someone refresh me on how? :tumblr_inline_n18qr5lPWB1qid2nw:

     

    From nonchan's tumblr post:

    You send it to the official JSF address, writing Yuzuru’s name as the receiver:

     

    Japan Skating Federation
    Mr./Ms. _____________(please write clearly the name of the skater whom you send to)
    Kishi Memorial Gymnasium 1-1-1 Jinnan, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo 150-8050 Japan

     

    There are rules to what you can send:

    • Please write clearly the skater’s name (whom you send to) on the surface of the envelope or on the invoice.
    • Transfer fee is not required. Please do not enclose stamps etc.
    • Please note that the following items are not accepted:
      • foods (for safety of skaters)
      • animals & plants(including potted plants)
      • valuables (precious metals, jewelry, etc.), cash vouchers, gift certificates, etc.
      • letters/presents sent to those who don’t belong to JSF(professional skaters, foreign skaters etc.)
    • Please note that we don’t accept the request of forwarding before the specified date (Christmas, Valentine’s Day, etc.)

  18. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat
    1 hour ago, xeyra said:

     

    Sorry! I updated the link. Should work now. 

    There is this analysis video of a guy in Sweeden. He has calculated a lot of numbers regarding Yuzuru here in this video:


    So apparently, Yuzuru has reduced his number of crossovers: 28 crossovers in the free skate compared to other guys who do 36 crossovers in general. Yuzuru does 53 rotation by skating, compared to the number of 40 that most other male skaters do. Yuzuru's ice coverage was 705 m in his free skate, while most guys are 620m. And this is just the number of the early season. As Yuzuru at his great condition in GPF 2015 did travel up to 720m.

     

    For your reference, I talked with the guy and he said, in the free skate Shoma Uno does 44 crossovers (as he counted them all). 


  19. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    Last season I did a comparative table of the men's GOE/PCS averages and I'm doing the same this year, only this time during the season instead of at the end. I still need to create a jump section and tighten up some other tabs that I had in the previous google sheet, so they're hidden for now, but so far this is the data available. I have also added Kolyada and Zhou in.

     

    AVERAGE GOE/PCS OF THE TOP MEN 2017-2018

     

    Although 'official' averages will only account for official ISU competitions (Challengers, GPs, Championships and Olympics), I have added an extra table to Shoma, Nathan and Javi's sections for some averages that include their JO FS. 

     

    Check back here after each competition for updated averages.


  20. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    So, resuming the talk on layouts, here's a breakdown of possibilities that I can remember for both SP and FS.

     

    Original SP

    4Lo 4S3T // 3A - BV: 49.75

     

    Quote
    Layouts without 4Lz

    4Lo 4T3T // 3A - BV: 49.55 (-0.20)

    4Lo // 4T3T 3A - BV: 51.01 (+1.26)

    4Lo // 4S3T 3A - BV: 51.23 (+1.48)

    // 4Lo 4S3T 3A - BV: 52.43 (+2.68) aka the Medvedeva

    Quote
    Layouts with 4Lz

    4Lz 4T3T // 3A - BV: 51.15 (+1.40)

    4Lz 4S3T // 3A - BV: 51.35 (+1.60)

    4Lz // 4T3T 3A - BV: 52.61 (+2.86)

    4Lz // 4S3T 3A - BV: 52.83 (+3.08)

    4Lz 4Lo3T // 3A - BV: 52.85 (+3.10)

    4Lz // 4Lo3T 3A - BV: 54.48 (+4.73)

     

    Original FS

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 103.43

     

    Quote
    Layouts without 4Lz

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4S3T 4T2T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz 3A - BV: 103.43 (+0.00) only difference is -2T combo on 4T instead of 3A

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4Lo3T 4T 3A2T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 105.08 (+1.65)

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 105.41 (+1.98)

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4Lo3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 107.06 (+3.63) or use 4T2T and 3A1Lo3S

    4Lo 4S 3F // 4Lo3T 4T 3A2T 4S1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 107.28 (+3.85) or use 4S2T and 3A1Lo3S

    Quote
    Layouts with 4Lz

    4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A3T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 109.83 (+6.40)

    4Lz 4S 3F // 4Lo3T 4T 3A3T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz - BV: 109.98 (+6.55)

    4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 111.26 (+7.83) or use 4T2T and 3A1Lo3S

    4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T 4S 3A1Lo3S 3A2T - BV: 111.48 (+8.05) or use 4T2T and 3A or 3A2T and 4S1Lo3S

    4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4Lo3T 4S 3A2T 4T1Lo3S 3A - BV: 113.13 (+9.70)

     

    I haven't even considered taking out the 3F and keeping the 3Lz... or a -3Lo combo

     

    So what can we figure out from these BV calculations?

    - Adding a 4Lz in the FS, even if nothing else changes and even if he only does 4 quads, in itself already gives him an over 6-point BV difference to his current layout.

    - The difference between a 5-quad layout to a 4-quad layout with 4Lz is only about 1.43-1.65, unless he repeats 4Lo.

    - Losing one 3A to get 5 quads in a non-4Lz layout doesn't bring that much of an advantage, unless he repeats 4Lo.

    - Total original BV is 153.18. If he were to use the lowest BV layout with 4Lz in both SP and FS, he would gain about 8 points in BV.

     

    Which one do you think he'd go for? Speculate. Alternative layouts I haven't thought of?

     

    Resources


  21. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    Hi everyone! 

    Here are the links to my videos from today's practice.Sorry that it's only on youtube i'll upload them to dailymotion soon. Please watch as follows:

    1. 

     

     

    2.

     


  22. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat

    Youtube links to SP

     

    TV Asahi

    Spoiler

     

     

    British Eurosport

    Spoiler

     

     

    Match Arena

    Spoiler

     

     

     


  23. General Yuzuru Chat
    General Yuzuru Chat
    11 hours ago, Xen said:

    Well, our lord Yuzuru did not release any divine inspirations today, so the ladies are quiet. Empress 3A is working on embroidery, Lady 4T is instructing a crew on knitting gold scarves, Lady 4S is fixing the bonsai gardens, Lady 4Lo is working on her koto skills, and Lady 4Lz was told to help with recent court layout details so she's working on that with the chancellors...

     

    Um, though to amuse us, since a lot of us cook, bake etc, if you could cook Yuzu a meal, what would you make for him?

     

    IF Yuzuru got three days to visit your city, and you got to be his tour guide, where would you take him and why?

     

    I'll make chocolate cake for him. Can't really cook LOL.

     

    3 days huh...if it's SG, can't really bring him to Gardens by the Bay, can I? He has asthma...also, are people with asthma ok with zoos? My city is known as the Garden City, so a lot of stuff is parks/nature-related. If not, I can always bring him on walking tours through Little India, Kampong Glam and Arab Street, Chinatown, Joo Chiat etc. I find those more interesting and worth it than those typical touristy attractions (except Gardens by the Bay, that one is a gem).

    Food-wise I'll recommend ice kacang, and I'll bring him to a Michelin-starred chicken rice store in Chinatown and buy him some bak kwa from Lim Chee Guan.

     

    If it's HK, plenty of places! Hopefully they can inspire him in skating. Ngong Ping 360 cable car ride and take a bus to Tai O fishing village, have lunch at a local restaurant (seafood! black sesame paste! traditional snacks!) then take a ferry to Tuen Mun (hopefully spot pink dolphins on the way? rare but hopeful). Or visit walled villages in the more rural areas of Yuen Long and Kam Sheung Road. I can also bring him to Victoria Peak and then head back down, take the Star Ferry, walk along Tsim Sha Tsui then go for a tram ride on HK island. Another way would be to walk from Sham Shui Po to Yau Ma Tei and explore all the streets there. THAT is the heart of what is truly Hong Kong. The streets are separated by the things they sell, eg. pets, electronics, leather, fabric, arts and crafts. And there's a lot of good food. Heck, HK food is good in general? Dim sum is a MUST. I'll bring him to Hoi Tin Garden Restaurant, or/and pick fresh seafood from the seafood market next to it and go to those 'mushroom pavilions' in the vicinity and let them cook and serve immediately. 

     

    This has been a shameless tourism PR for my homes.


  24. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    Because I love tables, I decided to bring the convo from the General Yuzuru chat about best GOE/TES/PCS here. These only count international ISU-sanctioned competitions (Challengers, GP, Championships and WTT):

     

    TOP 10 SHORT PROGRAM PROGRAM COMPONENT SCORE (PCS)

    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 5
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 3
    Patrick CHAN (CAN) 2
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    SP PCS

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 49.14 Grand Prix Final 2015
    2 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 49.04 World Championships 2016
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 48.55 SC Autumn Classic 2017
    4 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 48.26 World Championships 2017
    5 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 48.02 World Championships 2017
    6 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 47.86 Internationaux de France 2017
    7 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 47.35 Grand Prix Final 2016
    7 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 47.35 World Championships 2017
    9 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 47.32 European Championships 2017
    10 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 47.21 World Championships 2016

     

     

    TOP 10 FREE SKATING PROGRAM COMPONENT SCORE (PCS)

    Patrick CHAN (CAN) 4
    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 3
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 3
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    FS PCS

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 98.56 Grand Prix Final 2015
    2 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 98.36 World Championships 2016
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 97.20 NHK Trophy 2015
    4 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 97.14 Four Continents Championships 2016
    5 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 97.08 World Championships 2017
    6 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 96.78 Grand Prix Final 2015
    7 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 96.50 Trophee Eric Bompard 2013
    8 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 96.08 Grand Prix Final 2015
    9 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 95.70 Cup of Russia 2016
    10 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 95.48 Grand Prix Final 2013

     

     

    TOP 10 SHORT PROGRAM TOTAL ELEMENT SCORE (TES)

    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 5
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 2
    Nathan CHEN (USA) 2
    Mikhail KOLYADA (RUS) 1
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    SP TES

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 64.17 SC Autumn Classic 2017
    2 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 61.81 Grand Prix Final 2015
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 61.52 World Championships 2016
    4 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 60.79 World Championships 2017
    5 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 60.00 Internationaux de France 2017
    6 Mikhail KOLYADA (RUS) 59.63 Cup of China 2017
    7 Nathan CHEN (USA) 59.58 Four Continents Championships 2017
    8 Nathan CHEN (USA) 59.56 Skate America 2017
    9 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 59.44 NHK Trophy 2015
    10 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 59.18 Grand Prix Final 2016

     

     

    TOP 10 FREE SKATING TOTAL ELEMENT SCORE (TES)

    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 4
    Shoma UNO (JPN) 2
    Nathan CHEN (USA) 2
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 1
    Boyang JIN (CHN) 1
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    FS TES

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 126.12 World Championships 2017
    2 Shoma UNO (JPN) 122.87 Lombardia Trophy 2017
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 120.92 Grand Prix Final 2015
    4 Shoma UNO (JPN) 120.03 World Championships 2017
    5 Boyang JIN (CHN) 118.94 World Championships 2017
    6 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 118.87 NHK Trophy 2015
    7 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 118.05 World Championships 2016
    8 Nathan CHEN (USA) 115.48 Four Continents Championships 2017
    9 Nathan CHEN (USA) 113.13 Grand Prix Final 2016
    10 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 112.33 Four Continents Championships 2017

     

    TOP 10 SHORT PROGRAM TOTAL GOE

    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 6
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 2
    Patrick CHAN (CAN) 1
    Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN) 1
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    SP GOE

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 14.66 Skate Canada Autumn Classic 2017
    2 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 14.36 Grand Prix Final 2015
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 14.07 World Championships 2016
    4 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 13.04 World Championships 2017
    5 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 12.25 Internationaux de France 2017
    6 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 11.39 NHK Trophy 2015
    7 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 11.21 World Championships 2017
    8 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 10.88 Olympics 2014
    9 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 10.66 Grand Prix Final 2013
    10 Tatsuki MACHIDA (JPN) 10.62 World Championships 2014

     

     

    TOP 10 FREE SKATING TOTAL GOE

    Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 5
    Patrick CHAN (CAN) 4
    Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 1
    Spoiler

     

    # SKATER

    FS GOE

    EVENT
    1 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 25.73 Grand Prix Final 2015
    2 Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) 23.32 World Championships 2016
    3 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 23.08 NHK Trophy 2015
    4 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 22.69 World Championships 2017
    5 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 21.18 Four Continents Championships 2016
    6 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 19.44 Grand Prix Final 2015
    7 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 19.13 Four Continents Championships 2017
    8 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 18.25 Skate Canada 2015
    9 Yuzuru HANYU (JPN) 17.61 World Team Trophy 2015
    10 Patrick CHAN (CAN) 17.48 Trophee Eric Bompard 2013

  25. General Skating Chat
    General Skating Chat

    As promised, here's an update on the speculative layout table I posted back in page 33, with more current info.

     

    Blue - Confirmed layouts OR layouts tried in competition this season (more or less)

    Non-colored - Different options or mere possibilities, when uncertain

     

    Spoiler

    In Nathan's case I can't predict what he'll do in each competition, so I'm sticking with the 7-quad option in the predictions. In Shoma's case, I also can't really predict what he'll do either so I'm going for more than one possibility. Will Boyang upgrade his FS layout? Will Javier add a 4Lo? Stay tuned, this season is going to be a headache and a half!

     

    These may change as the season progresses, of course, because the Men are crazy. 

     

    SKATER SP BV LAYOUT FS BV LAYOUT TOTAL BV NOTES
    HANYU

    51.01

    52.61

    4Lo // 3A 4T3T

    4Lz // 3A 4T3T

    111.26

    4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S3T 4T1Lo3S 4T 3A2T 3A

    162.27

    163.87

    SP layout a question mark but

    likely to use 4Lo

    CHEN 54.38 4Lz3T  // 4F 3A

    115.21

    117.19

    123.86

    4Lz3T 4F 4S // 4Lz 4T1Lo3S 3A2T 3A 3Lz

    4Lz3T 4F 4S // 4Lz 4T1Lo3S 4T2T 3A 3Lz

    4Lo 4Lz 4F3T // 4Lz2T 4F 4T2T2Lo 4S 3A

    169.59

    171.57

    178.24

    endgame: 6-7 quads?

    UNO

    51.31

    4F // 4T3T 3A

    109.59

    110.02

    111.79

    4Lo 4S 3A3T // 4F 4T2T 4T 3A1Lo3F 3S

    4Lo 4S 3A // 4F 4T2T 4T 3A1Lo3F 3S3T

    4Lo 4S 3A3T // 4F 4F2T 4T 3A1Lo3F 3S

    160.90

    161.33

    163.10

    may yet add second 4F or

    maybe change SP layout

    (add 4Lo?)

    JIN 51.33 4Lz3T 3A // 4T

    103.70

    110.78

    4Lz 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T2T 4T 3A 3Lz3T 3F

    4Lz3T 4S 4Lo // 4T 4T2T 3A1Lo3S 3A 3Lz

    155.03

    162.11

    same layout as last season

    or add 4Lo? (4CC layout)

    FERNANDEZ 47.75 4T3T 4S // 3A

    95.13

    99.61

    102.55

    4T 4S3T 3A2T // 4S 3Lo 3A 3Lz 3F1Lo3S  

    4Lo 4S3T 3A3T // 4T 3Lo 3A 3Lz 3F1Lo3S

    4Lo 4S3T 3A2T // 4S 4T 3A 3Lz 3F1Lo3S

    142.88

    147.36

    150.30

    same layout as last season

    or add 4Lo?

    CHAN 48.05 4T3T 4S // 3A 94.25 4T3T 4S 3A1Lo3S // 4T 3A 3Lo2T 3Lz 3F 142.30 same FS layout but with 2 quad SP
    ZHOU 53.15 4Lz 4F3T // 3A

    106.01

    112.05

    112.29

    117.90

    4Lz 4F 4S // 4T 3Lz3T 3A 3A2T 3Lz1Lo3F

    4Lz3T 4F 4S2T // 4Lz 3A 4S 3Lo 3Lz1Lo3F

    4Lz 4F 4S3T // 4T 4S 3A 3A2T 3Lz1Lo3F

    4Lz 4F 4S3T // 4Lz2T 4T 4S 3A 3Lz1Lo3F

    159.16

    165.20

    165.44

    171.05

    using variations of 4-5 quads

    layouts. endgame: 6 quads?

    KOLYADA 51.15 4Lz 4T3T // 3A 98.81 4Lz 4S 3A3T // 4T 3A 3Lz1Lo3S 3Lo 3Lz2T 149.96  
    BROWN 38.66 3A 3Lz // 3F3T 83.54 4T 3A 3F // 3A3T 3Lz1Lo3S 3Lo 3Lz2T 2A 122.20  

     

     


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