hoodie axel

Oh, let me be clear. She doesn't hop on turns, no, but I think she can't really hold her edges too much, so they choreograph her to hop after completing them sufficiently well. I think Zagitova has been made to do this more though, and maybe just her. I'm just not enough of a fan to watch right now and have a look. And I hope I didn't come across as rude, I have a lot to learn too.

In 8-9? And Medvedeva in 9-9.25? I guess they're others whose flaws are disguised, even with terrible programs. Their skating is really awkward. They can't gain speed without pumping their bodies, look at how much they swing their limbs around. You can see Zagitova pump her body to support her skating, Medvedeva's legs are even stiffer than Nathan's to my eyes. They have good control, because they use their limbs to really stretch out those curves in their step sequences, but the ability to hold an edge is just as suspect as their ability to hold positions, because of how they always hop to the next step or turn as part of the choreography. I'm glad only one of them is in the mix for CoC. I guess in general I'd mark them around the same low 8s.

After his opening combo, he does sort of a body roll move, to disguise his lack of flow. And agreed on lack of control to keep up with tempo -- that is experience and age. And no quads shouldn't be given leeway. It's simple, if you can't do stuff around quads, don't do them. It's why I think Boyang is better at the quad game than anyone else (well, not counting the veterans here) -- he had enough experience with them during juniors, so he added stuff around them during his debut to package himself enough (though not with his LP) and is at a comfort level to support them (though he needs more steps before his 4Ts!!!), whereas Nathan and Shoma look visibly less comfortable. Shoma can do good steps before his 4T, but his programs become more and more generic the more he adds quads, and Nathan... well.

It would still be a plastic potato though, soooo

It's clever choreography! It's why people are fooled into believing there's a huge difference between him and Boyang, when there's isn't that much of a gap, and Boyang uses what he has with far more consistency. Haha, you're another person I differ on this from. I think ability to accelerate or at least maintain speed going in, and control them coming out (knee bend) are indicators. SS are usually consistent. But younger competitors like Nathan (flat blades) and sometimes Shoma and Boyang (who show undefined curves and hops respectively) aren't really consistent. Shoma and Boyang have a good level of consistency though. It's just more apparent for the viewers with Boyang because... hops are more visible. Good description, and nice explanation! It gives me renewed confidence that viewers would make better judges than the actual judges.

Zhou.

Boyang (like) vs Shoma (neutral) WC 17 FS. Leverage the opinions into objectivity -- why do you like the person's skating? Why do you dislike it? If the like/dislike is personal, you just have to put it aside, and focus on the routine. Why do you like/dislike the routine? Boyang, the technical: 1) Good jumps, decent spinner. 2) Sometimes labours steps and turns, not too clean, check for hops, program not a good showcase -- SS 3) Poor TR 4) Composition good enough due to placement of jumps, step sequences, spins, but noticeably empty during second half, and between jumps. The other part: 1) Decent performance, great during in ChSq, in and out other times, focuses too much on jumps between the 4T-2T and 4T combos, not too expressive after all quads done, but tries to project outward instead, loses it during the StSq, gains it back in final spin 2) Interpretation -- easy to judge in this case, as there's nothing added to the music as such, though the charm during the ChSq may make you think differently. All you need to judge is the timing of the elements. Shoma, the technical: 1) Weird jumps, good spinner. 2) Cleaner SS, but doesn't showcase ability during StSq, as he doesn't accelerate during StSq as he should and could have. 3) Better TR 4) Composition good enough due to placement of jumps, step sequences, spins. The other part: 1) Decent performance, not a tango, face never sells the latter half of the program and PE falls flat there. 2) Interpretation -- also easy to judge in this case, as there's nothing added to the music as such either.

He could do an exhibition!

I wouldn't pre-determine ranges. SS vary from program to program, performance to performance. They are to be scored based on the performance. Nathan Chen is capable of very deep turns when he's on -- on those days I'd give him an 8.5. He doesn't always show them, however, and skates on flat blades very often. Boyang, on the other hand, shows nice glide. In his FS, however, he loses stamina at the end, and starts hopping steps. Not always, and he's fairly consistent (and he was injured), but this is why he received Level 2 Steps in Olys and WCs. Have we already begun?

What do you think about Nathan?

TBH I'm just excited to do this

My GOE assignment is a little different from most. I see height, coverage, flow and match to the musical structure, see if all the rotations were completed in the air, and then see if someone had a transition into it, or delayed the jump. I couldn't care less about Tanos or Rippons unless there's literally nothing else to see. So for instance, Boyang's 4Lz in the WC17 FS and 4CC18 FS would easily be a +2.5 to +3. Height, coverage, flow, matched to the musical structure, all the rotations completed in the air. I believe he's slightly getting better at delaying the rotation as he gets better SS, and therefore can go into it with more speed, and thus transfer more power into the take-off.

I actually keep reading this as "Mock a Judging Panel", and I think "Don't we do that every time?".

Perfect!

How 'bout final group at WC15 men's SP?

Let's start easy and select a few classics. Yuna's Les Mis W13. Yuzuru's R&J W12. Once we're comfortable, erm... Let's Go Crazy.

Nope. Please no. For the record: I think Nathan should've had ~200 for FS, and ~90 for SP (UR; poor preceding steps for 4F; empty program -- PCS max around 39 say SS: 8, TR: 7.5, PE: 7.5, CO:8, IN: 7.75). That's all that matters, right?

Honestly it's up to you guys haha.

This takes it into account! PR=180 degree. UR=90 degree. So 1/2 turn+1/4 turn = 3/4 turn allowed. So total number of turns-allowed turn = (number of turns-1) + 1/4 turn minimum. I think counting rotations makes more sense. Suppose a skater does a 3Lutz with 0 PR. If he lands say half a turn short, he will have done 2.5 turns in the air. This is more rotated than someone who PRs 180 degree and lands 90 UR, and shouldn't deserve a UR call, and in fact deserved high GOE for good technique. +3 if all three turns are done in the air!

Measure pre-rotation so we can see if the jump as at least number of turns in the name - 0.75 turns. So check if a triple has 2.25 rotations. Between 2-2.25 UR. Below 2 DG. Check for full blade takeoffs, make a notation, and tell them what it is. They're actually easy to spot, though, if the angle's alright, so it should strictly be a GOE deduction, no need to invent further rules. Uniform for all skaters. If you like, just tell us the degree of PR, and where they landed, and we'll make the judgement call. A jump with 180 degree PR will be called rotated if it lands a quarter short (we don't need a concept of doubt), but will not get high GOE because it's only minimally rotated. The "judges" will be watching anyway, so they'll see what to do. No corridor judging.

Could you elaborate? You're going to mark PR differently depending on whether it's a man or a woman? Also, if it's a competition from this quad, I can really only think of one event I liked as a whole -- WC men's 2017. But I've already scored the FS and that won't be fun. I guess Oly Ladies' FS would be a nice train-wreck, just to see how many of Satoko's jumps were overlooked, or just how low I can go with the top 2's PCS.

Measure pre-rotation so we can see if the jump as at least number of turns in the name - 0.75 turns. So check if a triple has 2.25 rotations. Between 2-2.25 UR. Below 2 DG. Check for full blade takeoffs, make a notation, and tell them what it is. They're actually easy to spot, though, if the angle's alright, so it should strictly be a GOE deduction, no need to invent further rules. A jump with 180 degree PR will be called rotated if it lands a quarter short (we don't need a concept of doubt), but will not get high GOE because it's only minimally rotated. The "judges" will be watching anyway, so they'll see what to do.

Pretty much. For reference, I scored H&L 2017W at 214. Shoma got 190 for Loco and Boyang got 193 for La Strada. Didn't mark SPs, but I think Shoma barely edges out for Silver. Maybe. If we're doing slow-mo... Pre-rotation checks, please!

This would be great. I might do exactly one panel. I'd love to really score Medvedva and Zagitova's Olympic outings, if you know what I mean.